FP+ Details Are Out!

[MichiganDVC]

Just returned from 6 days at WDW. I did not get to test FP+, but here was my experience with lines and FPs...

1. Magic Kingdom EMH: Arrived 8:45pm. FP for Jungle Cruise, 15 minutes for Pirates. Watched castle projection, then walked toward Liberty Square during Wishes. HM walk on, Small World walk-on, Dumbo walk-on, Under the Sea 5 min, Buzz 5 min, TTA, left at 12:30.
Mountains were at 20-30 minutes at 12:30am, roughly. Space was more.

2. Magic Kingdom 10:00am: Not quite rope-drop, but fairly early. Mountains had 10 minute waits; Space was 20. FP was less than an hour out. Everything else was 5-10 minutes. Had we gotten there at 9am, we could have gone on every mountain and every low-capacity, slow-loading ride out there by 11:00am!

Frankly, unless you're there on the 4th of July or Christmas, FP+ isn't going to break your vacation if you get to the park at rope drop.

We, however, forced ourselves to go early to almost every park because we didn't want to be out in the heat and we had dinners planned for almost every evening. Otherwise, we are "sleep-in, breakfast, pool, park by 3pm" type of people. That's why I like the World Showcase so much...doesn't even open until 11!

 

[Shaden]

Frankly, unless you're there on the 4th of July or Christmas, FP+ isn't going to break your vacation if you get to the park at rope drop.

To be honest, I am leaning towards agreeing with you, but your experience doesn't have anything to do with this, it is anecdotal and completely removed from FP+.

What we DON'T know, is if FP+ is going to force people to take times early in the morning, and IF, (if), those people are going to show up at RD, when they normally wouldn't for FP times, making standby considerably longer.

We wont know if this is the case until the system is fully rolled out and you have the whole guest population booking FP+s for the day.

 

[MichiganDVC]

To be honest, I am leaning towards agreeing with you, but your experience doesn't have anything to do with this, it is anecdotal and completely removed from FP+.

What we DON'T know, is if FP+ is going to force people to take times early in the morning, and IF, (if), those people are going to show up at RD, when they normally wouldn't for FP times, making standby considerably longer.

We wont know if this is the case until the system is fully rolled out and you have the whole guest population booking FP+s for the day.

Yes, but as everyone is freaking out about having only one E-ticket FP per day, that means that everyone else at the park ALSO only has one. So it's not like 100 families have 400 FPs for BTMRR, Splash, Space, and Pan all at 9:00am and somehow you would only get 1 FP and be in hour long waits for everything else at 9:00am.
My point was that in July (a busy season) the wait times for the E-tickets were minimal from 9:00-11:00am.

 

[doconeill]

Yes, but as everyone is freaking out about having only one E-ticket FP per day, that means that everyone else at the park ALSO only has one. So it's not like 100 families have 400 FPs for BTMRR, Splash, Space, and Pan all at 9:00am and somehow you would only get 1 FP and be in hour long waits for everything else at 9:00am.
My point was that in July (a busy season) the wait times for the E-tickets were minimal from 9:00-11:00am.

None of the tests have restricted FP+ to one E-ticket per day, including next month's huge test. So I don't know anyone who is currently "freaking out" about it.

 

[MichiganDVC]

None of the tests have restricted FP+ to one E-ticket per day, including next month's huge test. So I don't know anyone who is currently "freaking out" about it.

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up will all 158 pages of posts on this particular thread (and I'm not sure "testing" is 100% how things will be either,) but there has been constant chatter about being limited to tiers of FPs: 1 E-ticket, 1 other, 1 parade/show. Or some combination therein.

I have no evidence of this one way or the other, but this is just a reflection of what I have heard in the last month from OTHER people going nuts about worst-case scenarios.

 

[bksomody]

Does anyone know if the park hours schedule is finalized at 60 days out?

I'm going 1/1 and as of now the parks are closing early, but everyone says that will change. Also, Fantasmic,Wishes, and MSEP times are different.

I'm Just wondering how this will effect FP+ availability and planning. I would think the hours would have to be finalized at 60 days. Any thoughts?

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up will all 158 pages of posts on this particular thread (and I'm not sure "testing" is 100% how things will be either,) but there has been constant chatter about being limited to tiers of FPs: 1 E-ticket, 1 other, 1 parade/show. Or some combination therein.

I have no evidence of this one way or the other, but this is just a reflection of what I have heard in the last month from OTHER people going nuts about worst-case scenarios.

This restriction was in early testing only, and not in subsequent tests.

 

[xipetotec]

Does anyone know if the park hours schedule is finalized at 60 days out?

I'm going 1/1 and as of now the parks are closing early, but everyone says that will change. Also, Fantasmic,Wishes, and MSEP times are different.

I'm Just wondering how this will effect FP+ availability and planning. I would think the hours would have to be finalized at 60 days. Any thoughts?

I think they are mostly finalized at 180 days because they have to match for ADRs as well. We usually plan to take advantage of EMH and often dine beyond official park closing as a result. So by 60 days ( barring some last minute changes due to expected crowds or whatever ) I'm pretty sure it's locked down.

 

[doconeill]

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up will all 158 pages of posts on this particular thread (and I'm not sure "testing" is 100% how things will be either,) but there has been constant chatter about being limited to tiers of FPs: 1 E-ticket, 1 other, 1 parade/show. Or some combination therein.

I have no evidence of this one way or the other, but this is just a reflection of what I have heard in the last month from OTHER people going nuts about worst-case scenarios.

Worst case scenarios that must include implementing the restriction that they have done since very early this year. Sure, earlier this year it looked like tiering would be in place, given that they've done tiering for all prior "extra FP" programs in the past several years - but then when the testing that involved the actual MM+ systems came about - no tiering. It is generally believed that there will not be tiering, at least not for a while - but it doesn't mean they can't bring it back later.

Does anyone know if the park hours schedule is finalized at 60 days out?

I'm going 1/1 and as of now the parks are closing early, but everyone says that will change. Also, Fantasmic,Wishes, and MSEP times are different.

I'm Just wondering how this will effect FP+ availability and planning. I would think the hours would have to be finalized at 60 days. Any thoughts?

I don't think park hours are ever "finalized"...

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Does anyone know if the park hours schedule is finalized at 60 days out?

No, they're not finalised 60 days out, they can change at anytime. We have had them change months and days before our trip. We have had them change on us mid trip. Last trip, one day MK was scheduled to close at midnight. When we went in that morning, they had changed it to 2am.

 

[WillAustin]

It is generally believed that there will not be tiering, at least not for a while - but it doesn't mean they can't bring it back later.

I'd bet they are hoping if enough guests choose "FastPicks" they won't need to use tiers.

 

[rastuso]

None of the tests have restricted FP+ to one E-ticket per day, including next month's huge test. So I don't know anyone who is currently "freaking out" about it.

But the numbers don't lie. The 3 mountains at MK will have enough FP+ for everyone to get about 1.5. That is for ALL of them, not each.

The math doesn't lie. The only way FP+ will NOT be an unmitigated disaster to folks who are used to lots of rides is if the showup rate is incredibly low. However, that only means the SB line could move faster. But SB lines have a natural length to them. I was there while the Pooh line was being redone. The SB line was a 20 foot straight shot up to the load. It never got out of that 20 foot length. Had it been the normal queue, I'm pretty certain more than 20 feet of it would have been full.

That's why Space always has the longer line. It's hidden. Folks can see when the BTMRR line is coming down the mountain. Space is only known by what the sign says.

Faster SB lines will only mean more people will ride SB, not necessarily that the wait will be shorter. The hard entrance to a queue is a VERY big deal, psychologically, to the average park guest. If the line is out to there, they don't enter, if the line is shorter, they enter. There isn't' much trust of the posted time.

Jason

 

[doconeill]

But the numbers don't lie. The 3 mountains at MK will have enough FP+ for everyone to get about 1.5. That is for ALL of them, not each.

The math doesn't lie. The only way FP+ will NOT be an unmitigated disaster to folks who are used to lots of rides is if the showup rate is incredibly low. However, that only means the SB line could move faster. But SB lines have a natural length to them. I was there while the Pooh line was being redone. The SB line was a 20 foot straight shot up to the load. It never got out of that 20 foot length. Had it been the normal queue, I'm pretty certain more than 20 feet of it would have been full.

That's why Space always has the longer line. It's hidden. Folks can see when the BTMRR line is coming down the mountain. Space is only known by what the sign says.

Faster SB lines will only mean more people will ride SB, not necessarily that the wait will be shorter. The hard entrance to a queue is a VERY big deal, psychologically, to the average park guest. If the line is out to there, they don't enter, if the line is shorter, they enter. There isn't' much trust of the posted time.

Jason

Yes, we can keep talking about the math and the numbers...but I'm talking about the facts...that they are NOT tiering the attractions currently, despite old tests which did with a smaller audience.

We DON'T know how Disney will handle a shortage of FP+ availability - if it does materialize. And that depends on the acceptance and utilization of FP+.

 

[bksomody]

I think they are mostly finalized at 180 days because they have to match for ADRs as well. We usually plan to take advantage of EMH and often dine beyond official park closing as a result. So by 60 days ( barring some last minute changes due to expected crowds or whatever ) I'm pretty sure it's locked down.

Right now for 1/1/14 MK is showing 9-10 and I'm at about 160 days. Last year regular hours were 8-1, (these were not EMH).

So if FP+ reservations are made at 60 days, I'm hoping they will have the park hours figured out by then.

 

[bksomody]

No, they're not finalised 60 days out, they can change at anytime. We have had them change months and days before our trip. We have had them change on us mid trip. Last trip, one day MK was scheduled to close at midnight. When we went in that morning, they had changed it to 2am.

Well that will make for some extra same day FP or FP+'s!

 

[rastuso]

Yes, we can keep talking about the math and the numbers...but I'm talking about the facts...that they are NOT tiering the attractions currently, despite old tests which did with a smaller audience.

We DON'T know how Disney will handle a shortage of FP+ availability - if it does materialize. And that depends on the acceptance and utilization of FP+.

Math is fact. It doesn't matter if they are tiering. If everyone chooses the mountains for FP+, it is an absolute certainty that no one will have an MK day with their 3 FP+ being Splash, Space, and Big Thunder. And it would take A LOT of folks to choose other things, like essentially half of everyone going to the park saying "You know, I don't like E-ticket Mountains, but I do like C ticket dark rides and parades".

Actually, let's recheck the math. 25000 rooms, 80000 guests, assume one fourth hitting MK, meaning 20000 people and 60000 FP+ for RESORT GUESTS at MK. Assuming 12 hours of operation and 4500 people an hour total capacity of the mountains, and 80% for FP+ pre-reservation. That's 43200 Mountain FP+. And that's with a LOT of kind assumptions.

So, RESORT guests, who get first crack, can easily take every Mountain FP+, and still one third of them won't get on all three. And everyone else visiting that day, which could be up to 30,000 people on a busy day, will get ZERO mountain FP+

There most certainly will be a shortage. It is a mathematical certainty.

Again, the only way it WON'T be a disaster is if there is a large percentage of people who do not ride any of the mountains. There are some, sure, but I'd put them at 20% or so. It would have to be almost a third of the people to even make it so all resort guests that WANT to ride them all, can. And the non resort guests are still stuck holding the crumbs of IASW, Autopia, and Rocket Jets.

Jason

 

[doconeill]

Math is fact. It doesn't matter if they are tiering. If everyone chooses the mountains for FP+, it is an absolute certainty that no one will have an MK day with their 3 FP+ being Splash, Space, and Big Thunder. And it would take A LOT of folks to choose other things, like essentially half of everyone going to the park saying "You know, I don't like E-ticket Mountains, but I do like C ticket dark rides and parades".

Actually, let's recheck the math. 25000 rooms, 80000 guests, assume one fourth hitting MK, meaning 20000 people and 60000 FP+ for RESORT GUESTS at MK. Assuming 12 hours of operation and 4500 people an hour total capacity of the mountains, and 80% for FP+ pre-reservation. That's 43200 Mountain FP+. And that's with a LOT of kind assumptions.

So, RESORT guests, who get first crack, can easily take every Mountain FP+, and still one third of them won't get on all three. And everyone else visiting that day, which could be up to 30,000 people on a busy day, will get ZERO mountain FP+

There most certainly will be a shortage. It is a mathematical certainty.

Again, the only way it WON'T be a disaster is if there is a large percentage of people who do not ride any of the mountains. There are some, sure, but I'd put them at 20% or so. It would have to be almost a third of the people to even make it so all resort guests that WANT to ride them all, can. And the non resort guests are still stuck holding the crumbs of IASW, Autopia, and Rocket Jets.

Jason

The big assumption in here is that at least as many guests will actually book FP+ in advance for an attraction as there are slots available. Although I agree that it is likely in the long term, it remains to actually be seen. The majority of WDW guests do not read these boards, do not know about these changes yet, will only learn about them when they are notified of them (if they are notified), and then have to figure out MDX would the help we've all given each other, and book those FP+...

 

[bcrook]

The big assumption in here is that at least as many guests will actually book FP+ in advance for an attraction as there are slots available. Although I agree that it is likely in the long term, it remains to actually be seen. The majority of WDW guests do not read these boards, do not know about these changes yet, will only learn about them when they are notified of them (if they are notified), and then have to figure out MDX would the help we've all given each other, and book those FP+...

A couple of things here. Once a visitor gets to the park or resort the first day day and figures out the system (and it really isn't that difficult), they will schedule rides for all days of their trip. They will go ahead and grab something. Disney might even encourage them to go ahead and grab the fast picks.

The other is the argument that most people don't understand Fastpass or bother to use it. I find that hard to believe and there is no evidence really. Every fastpass for every major attraction is used everyday during peak times. People estimate that 80% of all riders are using FP on the headliners. And if you stand by for Peter Pan, that is not difficult to believe.

No matter what the percentage of people that understand how to use FP, there is currently enough to gobble up all the good stuff. With this new marketing and reach out plan to educate all, the percent has to go up. Demand for the headliners has to go up. It won't take long either.

I don't know another person who reads the disboards in my day to day life, but all of my Disney friends, colleagues, and family are acutely aware that FP is going to be better than ever, they can't wait for their magicbands, and are excited about cool new interaction available in the park.

I never talk about, because everyone is so excited. I just hope it works out ok for us all.

It's kind of like Be Our Guest, everyone knows it is there, and somehow they all know you have to book it way in advance. How does one know this if you don't keep up with a forum?

Is it just word of mouth?

 

[rastuso]

The big assumption in here is that at least as many guests will actually book FP+ in advance for an attraction as there are slots available. Although I agree that it is likely in the long term, it remains to actually be seen. The majority of WDW guests do not read these boards, do not know about these changes yet, will only learn about them when they are notified of them (if they are notified), and then have to figure out MDX would the help we've all given each other, and book those FP+...

I agree there will be a short window where there will be a lot of confusion and ignorance. However, these numbers are only for resort guests, who either won't be ignorant, or will be sent many e-mails explaining how simple it is to get those FP+.

And while I think there's a pretty good supply of ignorant people on this Earth, Disney will do their best to educate them. They aren't spending a billion dollars on a system most people won't use.

It'd be different if there was a huge excess of mountain FP+s, but there simply isn't. When you go to other parks, it get's a whole lot more bleak. EPCOT only has 2 highly popular E-tickets, although I wouldn't wait more than 10 minutes for Soarin', myself.

I know folks think Disney couldn't be this off in their expectations, but the facts that they are saying the double dippers are happy, so it's a great program, and they aren't even asking for feedback anymore, tells me they may be a bit out of touch on this one.

Jason

 

[BuckeyeBama]

A couple of things here. Once a visitor gets to the park or resort the first day day and figures out the system (and it really isn't that difficult), they will schedule rides for all days of their trip. They will go ahead and grab something. Disney might even encourage them to go ahead and grab the fast picks.

The other is the argument that most people don't understand Fastpass or bother to use it. I find that hard to believe and their is no evidence really. Every fastpass for every major attraction is used everyday during peak times. People estimate that 80% of all riders are using FP on the headliners. And if you stand by for Peter Pan, that is not difficult to believe.

No matter what the percentage of people that understand how to use FP, there is currently enough to gobble up all the good stuff. With this new marketing and reach out plan to educate all, the percent has to go up. Demand for the headliners has to go up. It won't take long either.

I don't know another person who reads the disboards in my day to day life, but all of my Disney friends, colleagues, and family are acutely aware that FP is going to be better than ever, they can't wait for their magicbands, and are excited about cool new interaction available in the park.

I never talk about, because everyone is so excited. I just hope it works out ok for us all.

It's kind of like Be Our Guest, everyone knows it is there, and somehow they all know you have to book it way in advance. How does one know this if you don't keep up with a forum?

Is it just word of mouth?

WDW will be advertising the heck out of this. Expect it to be included in all "Disney Mail" once it goes live. I suspect that it will be in big, bold print, and hard to miss. It will not be buried in the tiny font details.

Sure, some people will not read it or understand it, but most will, IMO.