For Kerry Supporters Only

[peachgirl]

If you'd like to post it in a separate thread Missy, please do.

I'm not one who cries often, but that letter was more than I could take.

 

[LoraJ]

Have you guys seen this:
http://www.wolfpacksfortruth.org/

 

[Peter Pirate]

There may be no answer to this but since I'm among liberal friends, I'll ask...

How can so many seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic people support the line of crap offered by this administration, defend it hook line and sinker, and not see how illogical it all is?

I understand (but still don't support) folks supporting bush if (1) they make more than $200,000 per (2) are radically anti abortion (3) are radically pro gun or are (4) religious zealots. But how do the others find this philosophy fits them? Any ideas?

 

[WishingStar]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
There may be no answer to this but since I'm among liberal friends, I'll ask...

How can so many seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic people support the line of crap offered by this administration, defend it hook line and sinker, and not see how illogical it all is?

I understand (but still don't support) folks supporting bush if (1) they make more than $200,000 per (2) are radically anti abortion (3) are radically pro gun or are (4) religious zealots. But how do the others find this philosophy fits them? Any ideas?

I wish I knew.

 

[peachgirl]

I understand (but still don't support) folks supporting bush if (1) they make more than $200,000 per (2) are radically anti abortion (3) are radically pro gun or are (4) religious zealots. But how do the others find this philosophy fits them? Any ideas?

Those you listed make up a vast majority of Bush's support. Honestly, the support Bush has outside of the groups you just mentioned isn't all that much. Those that aren't in the groups you listed probably don't qualify in your other group either.

So, if we include all those you mentioned, along with the ignorant and ill informed the only group left that I know of is those that are so afraid of terrorist attacks that they let it dominate every other aspect of their lives. Because they are afraid, they want someone who, rather than lead the country, puts forward the idea of seemingly "taking care of us".

I liken it to an abused child who still clings to the parents that abuse them.

Other than that, I too am amazed that with the sorry shape this country is in, that Bush is not being ridden out on a rail.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Peter, some military families feel they MUST support Dubya because if they don't they're admitting that their loved one(s) are out there fighting and dying for a fraud. Otherwise reasonable, rational people for the most part who simply can't wrap their minds around the possibility that their Commander in Chief is an idiot.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Oh I forgot the knuckleheads who fear gay marriage and rights for gays in general. Knuckleheads? How about quadrapedal knucklewalkers? Yeah, them.

 

[Therapeutic Smile]

Originally posted by LoraJ
Have you guys seen this:
http://www.wolfpacksfortruth.org/

It is reasons like this that I love the internets. That and You Forgot Poland and the factcheck.com that pointed to George Soros' website after Dickiepoo misreferenced factcheck.org in the Veep debate. This ability for near-instant satire is wonderful.

Oh yeah... there's also Rumors on the Internets and Need Sum Wood?

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Originally posted by Therapeutic Smile
It is reasons like this that I love the internets. That and You Forgot Poland and the factcheck.com that pointed to George Soros' website after Dickiepoo misreferenced factcheck.org in the Veep debate. This ability for near-instant satire is wonderful.

Oh yeah! I just sent that link to a ton of friends. I wish I could have added "Hungry Like the Wolf" sound file with it but I'm not techie enough.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
There may be no answer to this but since I'm among liberal friends, I'll ask...

How can so many seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic people support the line of crap offered by this administration, defend it hook line and sinker, and not see how illogical it all is?

I understand (but still don't support) folks supporting bush if (1) they make more than $200,000 per (2) are radically anti abortion (3) are radically pro gun or are (4) religious zealots. But how do the others find this philosophy fits them? Any ideas?

This is the question that really gets at the heart of everything, isn't it. And there are certainly no easy answers.

Just some thoughts...
I think many Americans were ill-prepared for 9/11 and were deeply shocked. Many people had gotten into a habit of concerning themselves with only local and national concerns, that which they felt in thier pocketbook, and ignored world affairs. Probably they felt momentary sorry for those afflicted by terrorism in other parts of the world, but didn't dwell on it. Post 9/11 the easiest thing for them to do is hand over control to the government and say "fix it." And unfortunately, Bush was in the White House when this happened...I've heard more than one voter say they are voting for Bush so he can "fix" what he started.

What is so scary to me is how much control people are willing to give over and how much is being asked by the administration. I was petrified by some of the responses to a thread about the rights of protestors, the total relinquishing of rights to police authority. That people are willing to abandon their civil rights shows just how scared they are, just how much fear the right has instilled in the population. It also shows a lack of foresight- the controls we give up today are the very ones that we could need in the future once the situation changes.

So that's my long answer. But I guess it can be pretty much summed up by one word: fear.

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
There may be no answer to this but since I'm among liberal friends, I'll ask...

How can so many seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic people support the line of crap offered by this administration, defend it hook line and sinker, and not see how illogical it all is?

I understand (but still don't support) folks supporting bush if (1) they make more than $200,000 per (2) are radically anti abortion (3) are radically pro gun or are (4) religious zealots. But how do the others find this philosophy fits them? Any ideas?

Would you like the answer in this thread or on the "Bush supporters only" thread?

 

[chadfromdallas]

Originally posted by BuckNaked
Would you like the answer in this thread or on the "Bush supporters only" thread?

Not to answer for him/her, but I'd like to know...without throwing the name Kerry anywhere into your response.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Yes, as with chadfromdallas, I'm all ears...earseek:

 

[richiebaseball]

Originally posted by chadfromdallas
Not to answer for him/her, but I'd like to know...without throwing the name Kerry anywhere into your response.

Because he's not the Senator from Massachusetts named John.

Richard

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by chadfromdallas
Not to answer for him/her, but I'd like to know...without throwing the name Kerry anywhere into your response.

No problem at all, because I supported Bush in the last election as well, so most of my reasons have nothing to do with Kerry, other than as a comparison of Bush's stands on issues v. Kerry's stands.

To clarify where I fall in the questions put up by PeterPirate:


(1) they make more than $200,000

Until very recently, we made way less than half this much. Next year, we will be at more than half that much, but still not above that amount.

(2) are radically anti abortion

Pro-choice, with the exception of late term abortion for any reason other than life of the mother.

(3) are radically pro gun or are

We own guns because we enjoy target shooting, but we are not radically pro-gun.

(4) religious zealots.

Not a religious zealot, though I do seem to spend an inordinate amount of time in the confessional, but that's another story.

I have supported and continue to support Bush based on the fact that he has always been strong on national defense and strong on tax cuts.

I'm a firm believer that one of the biggest problems with this country today is that failure is rewarded while success is punished, and I think that's exactly opposite of how things should be. I'm informed enough to know that the "only the rich got tax cuts" is baloney, and I verified it by running the numbers for us. Family of four, less than $70,000 income, and the tax cuts saved us nearly $2500 per year. Did the bulk of tax cut dollars go to the wealthy? Sure, but that's because they pay the bulk of the income taxes. Someone that isn't paying income tax or is paying very little shouldn't be surprised that their cut is a lower dollar amount than someone that is paying big money in income tax.

As for national defense, I want a strong leader for the nation, someone that will make the right decision, whether it is popular or not. I'm not interested in having a President that wants to cut military funding in order to put more money into social programs for the non-producers in this country. National defense always has been and must continue to be the number one obligation of ANY President, Republican or Democrat. And quite frankly, I've never felt that Democrats in the past few elections have had national defense as their top priority. It seems to be much more about how much they can redistribute the income in this country in order to maintain political support, whether it is good for the country or not.

Yes, I am intelligent, well informed and patriotic, and I do support Bush for re-election. It's not that I don't understand what the "other side" is saying, it's that I don't agree with them. That doesn't mean I'm ignorant, it means that I have a different opinion of what is best for this country, and how best to do what is best for the country. That's it.

 

[richiebaseball]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
There may be no answer to this but since I'm among liberal friends, I'll ask...

How can so many seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic people support the line of crap offered by this administration, defend it hook line and sinker, and not see how illogical it all is?

I understand (but still don't support) folks supporting bush if (1) they make more than $200,000 per (2) are radically anti abortion (3) are radically pro gun or are (4) religious zealots. But how do the others find this philosophy fits them? Any ideas?

Even among friends, I'd be embarrassed by this demagoguery. This is no different from someone implying that the only people that can possibly support Senator Kerry are those making under $200,000, are radically pro choice, are radically anti gun ownership, or are athiests or communists.

Most of us aren't radical at all. We're either pro choice or anti abortion. And while our beliefs may be different and deeply held, very few are radicals. We're either for gun control or against. And while our beliefs may be different and deeply held, very few are radicals. Our religious beliefs run the gamut from one extreme to the other. And while our beliefs may be different and deeply held, very few are radicals.

I agree, radicals on either end pretty much only have one choice. But the vast majority of us aren't radical. It's simply a difference of opinion. And if you can't imagine how someone seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic can't see a different solution than yours, well, I'll let you decide where the problem lies.

If you lean too far right or too far left, the same thing happens. You fall down.

Just one man's opinion.

Richard

 

[crazyforgoofy]

But you see at least from my vantage point ,Richie and Buck, I understand Peter's viewpoint. I ONLY hear from the rabid right where I live, heck I'm surrounded. My Kerry signs have been destroyed, my car was egged recently. I've been told I'm going to hell for not supporting the "President who is annointed by God." I was told recently that my lesbian daughter and her partner will "roast on Satan's spit." I don't know ANYONE who rationally supports Mr. Bush, here the crazies seem to be everywhere. Blind "faith" in this administration seems to run rampant and I cannot begin to conceive of it.

 

[Crankyshank]

I'm so sorry you were treated like that crazyforgoofy. That is so offensive and upsetting.

I do know people who are rational and are supporting Bush, and would never ever say stuff like that. They just have different ideas than what would "fix" the country.
I do also know people like how you described - on both sides of the coin

 

[Lebjwb]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
There may be no answer to this but since I'm among liberal friends, I'll ask...

How can so many seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic people support the line of crap offered by this administration, defend it hook line and sinker, and not see how illogical it all is?

I understand (but still don't support) folks supporting bush if (1) they make more than $200,000 per (2) are radically anti abortion (3) are radically pro gun or are (4) religious zealots. But how do the others find this philosophy fits them? Any ideas?

I'll take a crack at this;

Bush has played to the lowest common denominator since 9/11. To him it was "The In" to Iraq.

He had Iraq on the radar screen way before 9/11. I remember joking with a bunch of folks from both sides when Bush was given Florida, that Saddem was toast. His base believes that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and every chance this administration gets it tries to link the 2. How many times have you heard "Iraq and the terrorists"?

A gal came into a local barbershop right after 9/11 and said, "We have to kill all the Iraqi's. They were the ones that started it. What are we going to do just sit back and let them come into our country and take all our stuff?" I've know her most of my life and I pointed out to her that there were no Iraqi terrorists on any of the flights. Her response was that it didn't matter, "they" (meaning all Arabs) were all terrorists and needed to be "A-Bombed".

There are a lot of people like Pam in this world that are ignorant, they will lock step with the President and take his word as (no pun intended) Gospel truth. Anyone who has an opposing view is a traitor and unpatriotic. Bush loves people like Pam.; people that don't think for themselves, that react viscerally, from the gut ... "God and Guns"...I mean Bush thinks he talks to God! (Who would Jesus bomb George?) You freak of nature. How scary is that?...and worse off some people believe it...and if you disagree with them you are a Godless, unpatriotic, traitor. This moron makes my skin crawl.

How many more days until this illiterate ape is out of office? 8? 7? Please get this evil SOB out of office! And that is my Saturday night rant. Sorry... I feel better already.

 

[Lebjwb]

Originally posted by richiebaseball
Even among friends, I'd be embarrassed by this demagoguery. This is no different from someone implying that the only people that can possibly support Senator Kerry are those making under $200,000, are radically pro choice, are radically anti gun ownership, or are athiests or communists.

Most of us aren't radical at all. We're either pro choice or anti abortion. And while our beliefs may be different and deeply held, very few are radicals. We're either for gun control or against. And while our beliefs may be different and deeply held, very few are radicals. Our religious beliefs run the gamut from one extreme to the other. And while our beliefs may be different and deeply held, very few are radicals.

I agree, radicals on either end pretty much only have one choice. But the vast majority of us aren't radical. It's simply a difference of opinion. And if you can't imagine how someone seemingly intelligent, well read and obviously patriotic can't see a different solution than yours, well, I'll let you decide where the problem lies.

If you lean too far right or too far left, the same thing happens. You fall down.

Just one man's opinion.

Richard

The name of the thread is Kerry supporters only. Go debate someplace else.