For Christians

[Tinkerdreams]

But again, we're not supposed to measure to the world's standards. Of course, the world doesn't like it. In general, people do not like boundaries placed on them, they don't like to be told that something they want to do or that they like to do is wrong. If there are no absolute rights and wrongs, then people can do whatever they want without guilt or remorse.

Evil will be called good and good evil in the last days.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Me too. Living down here in Florida, we spent a lot of time talking about Amendment 2 in church. Once the election was over, I was relieved and hoped we could get back to talking about the Bible-but NO, now all we talk about is how the President is going to sign FOCA and how we have to write our Senators and Congress members about that!

DH and I have been talking about this for a while because we both believe that we need to stand up for our values, but the constant discussion of political issues to the exclusion of Bible teaching is bothering us.

Yes, and IMHO you are right in your views on this.
As Christians, we are called upon to worship Christ, love our neighbors, etc..
We should be worshiping and praying and digesting God's Word... And, anything that takes away from these things, as another poster mentioned, is 'focusing on the wrong things'. And, does NOTHING to further our relationship with Christ, or to guarantee salvation.

From a strictly spiritual standpoint, I do not see where we are called upon to fight social/political battles. This fosters negativity and ill will... Neither of which have a place in true spiritual Christianty.

Without a doubt, engaging in political/social battles is indeed 'being OF this world'.

Yes, there are those particular men who are (have been) called to go forth and spread God's word... However, as Christians we are definitely not given 'marching orders'.

13. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the WHOLE duty of man.
14. For GOD shall bring EVERY work into judgment, ... whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ecclesiastes 12: 13 - 14


There has always been sin in this world, and until Christ determines that it is time to come, again, and secure His final victory, there always will be. Shackling oneself with the burdon of society's sins, and the burdon of saving the world are not what Christians are called upon to do... Quite the opposite, Truth, and Faith, and Love, shall break all shackles and set us FREE!

 

[Buckalew11]

Me too. Living down here in Florida, we spent a lot of time talking about Amendment 2 in church. Once the election was over, I was relieved and hoped we could get back to talking about the Bible-but NO, now all we talk about is how the President is going to sign FOCA and how we have to write our Senators and Congress members about that!

DH and I have been talking about this for a while because we both believe that we need to stand up for our values, but the constant discussion of political issues to the exclusion of Bible teaching is bothering us.

You know, I could not take this. My preacher will say "get out and vote" and that is about it. I knew where he stood on the state getting a lottery and that is the only issue I knew about. I really do not anything about politics so I would not be very tolerant about hearing it from the pulpit every week. I do not even like them to talk about specifics books from the pulpit. A mention is fine but do not preach to me from someone's book--use the Bible. JMHO.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Now, in answer to the OP's questions...I think, as others stated, that we should expect it. However, let them hate me because I love the Lord God who they do not acknowledge...not because I am judging their lifestyles.

I think of Daniel and what he did when he found himself in his own "foreign" land. He did not join them and he prayed and remained faithful to God. AAfter much thought about this topic, that is what I will also be striving to do knowing I am accountable for *Brenda* before the Lord.

Amen, and AMEN!

 

[jimmiej]

From a strictly spiritual standpoint, I do not see where we are called upon to fight social/political battles. This fosters negativity and ill will... Neither of which have a place in true spiritual Christianty.

What about legalized abortion? Should we just "look the other way"? Will God hold Christians responsible for not speaking up?

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

What about legalized abortion? Should we just "look the other way"? Will God hold Christians responsible for not speaking up?

Honestly, my faith in God tells me instead of fighting against abortion, protesting clinics, or condemning the women who abort, to instead open up my heart to a woman in need and offer her comfort and compassion. And, after the fact, to open up my heart to her still. To me, that is the only way to actively spread God's will. Through love, good deeds, and compassion. When their judgement day is here, it will be in God's hands.

 

[JoyG]

What about legalized abortion? Should we just "look the other way"? Will God hold Christians responsible for not speaking up?

Maybe God will hold us responsible for getting bogged down trying to overturn Roe v. Wade when we could have been out there promoting birth control, education, affordable prenatal care, etc.?

(again, I don't know the answer to this).

I wonder if our real goal is to stop babies from dying or is it to overturn a court case. It seems like we could reduce abortions significantly if we started trying to go through the back door. Especially since it seems unlikely we'll ever win going through the front door.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

I think it's about balance. I don't think God wants us to sit by silently while immorality goes on around us, but I don't think he wants us to be so involved in politics that we lose sight of our spiritual growth and the needs of the community.

 

[clgwli]

What about legalized abortion? Should we just "look the other way"? Will God hold Christians responsible for not speaking up?

I wanted to reply yesterday to the how to react to world but never got a chance. However both replies are the same.

It is our job to spread the word. My church focuses on actions. You do well and you are showing what a good Christian does. Going around trying to preach to others isn't near as effective as showing people what it would be like. Actions speak louder than words if that makes sense.

It is NOT our job to make the world rule under our rules. God is not going to judge US for what OTHERS do. Christians have a bad habit of kind of suckering people into believing what they do. Look at Christmas, Easter & Halloween. We took our Christian beliefs and incorporated them with non-believers rituals.

To me that is not the right way to do it. If others do not believe as we do then they don't. We should never force our beliefs to be a law. In the old testament God really gave the impression that He was more pleased when people chose to follow His laws.

I truly do not think that as a Christian we should even think of making our beliefs laws. Then we are just forcing all to be like us when that is not the right way of doing it.

So who cares what the laws and the other lands do? We should care what we do to please God first. Then we should work to help others second. Of course putting our self as last. That has nothing to do with law or reactions of other lands.

We by our actions can do a lot more evangelization. I am not talking about protesting abortion clinics. i am talking about positive reinforcement. We truly should love the sinner and try to councel gently those on a one by one basis for abortions. Truly offer support not fights when they need help. Love them no matter what the choice they have. we are never meant to judge and I feel that most Christians do the opposite.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

"judge not" does not mean embrace and accept unrepentant sinful behavior. I'm not going to those who choose to thumb their nose in the face of God's commands. I'll say my piece, and if they choose to change, I'll be the first to support and help them, but if they choose to reject, then I'll do as Jesus told his apostles: shake the dust from my sandals and move on.

 

[jimmiej]

Honestly, my faith in God tells me instead of fighting against abortion, protesting clinics, or condemning the women who abort, to instead open up my heart to a woman in need and offer her comfort and compassion. And, after the fact, to open up my heart to her still. To me, that is the only way to actively spread God's will. Through love, good deeds, and compassion. When their judgement day is here, it will be in God's hands.

Please understand I was not promoting condemnation of anyone.

My original reason for posting this thread was because I wondered if Christians are hated in today's world because of the church's stance on these issues.

I know when a Christian states that Jesus is the ONLY way to God, certainly that stirs up a hornets nest.

Anyways, thanks for the discussion.

 

[clgwli]

"judge not" does not mean embrace and accept unrepentant sinful behavior. I'm not going to those who choose to thumb their nose in the face of God's commands. I'll say my piece, and if they choose to change, I'll be the first to support and help them, but if they choose to reject, then I'll do as Jesus told his apostles: shake the dust from my sandals and move on.

I don't see the connection honestly. I don't cheer when people sin but I never would turn my back on them. In fact I remember that I sin. Jesus told his apostles to shake the dust from their shoes if someone turned them from their house. By simply walking away when someone doesn't like to be lectured is not very Christian in my opinion. If someone needs help one should help. Not walk away when they don't agree with you or change immediately. Change is hard and takes time.

Jesus only said to walk away when people turned them down from entering the house. He even went as far as to say abide by them in their house. He never said force yourself on them which is what you are making it sound like.

If they don't agree you walk away from them which makes no sense to me. Jesus liked to discuss and converse with others who were not of his religion (Judiasm) and he went against the norm to befriend the gentiles. Only those who flat out rejected him (told him to leave their home) were the ones who he walked away from.

You should live as a Christian. Live as Christ did. Help those who need help. By your actions of helping them they will see how a good Christian is. Preaching and then abandoning when they don't agree just hits me as against the teachings.

Don't walk away when they don't agree. Only walk away when they tell you to leave.

By walking away you are in a way judging them. That is God's job to do. Not yours.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

You should live as a Christian. Live as Christ did. Help those who need help. By your actions of helping them they will see how a good Christian is. Preaching and then abandoning when they don't agree just hits me as against the teachings.

MTE!

 

[clgwli]

Please understand I was not promoting condemnation of anyone.

My original reason for posting this thread was because I wondered if Christians are hated in today's world because of the church's stance on these issues.

I know when a Christian states that Jesus is the ONLY way to God, certainly that stirs up a hornets nest.

Anyways, thanks for the discussion.

Personally as a member of a Christian sect that even Christians hate I will answer honestly and bluntly to you.

I think Christians are "hated" not for their stances, but the arrogance they can show. What I mean by that in the United States of America many Christians are trying to make their stance into law. They are so arrogant to think that everyone will be okay with that. A country founded on religious freedom by men half of which were not even Christians (rather just diests and no that isn't the same) is doing a horrible job of keeping religion out of politics.

I truly believe the "do it my way only" attitude I see is why people gravely dislike Christians.

I have watched some very devout Christians and they never once care when others do not live as them. They do not go about trying to ban books or make their ways law. To me that is the right thing to do.

I am a huge believer of keeping religion out of politics. I am a staunch liberal because I feel I should try to help out those in need. Those in need do not have to be Christians either. I feel the "religious right" show less concern for the needy than a liberal does.

I don't care about abortion. I will love those who have one no matter what. I personally never will but that is because of my beliefs. If someone feels that life does not start at coneception I cannot force them to believe as I do. I feel too many Christians do not understand this and feel it is their job to police the world and make laws for non-Christians to follow.

I truly think that is why the hatred. Not the stances but the forcing everyone to believe as they do.

As mentioned in anotehr post shake the dust if they tell you to get out. Many are trying to tell the Christians to get out of politics but many simply do not listen.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

I don't see the connection honestly. I don't cheer when people sin but I never would turn my back on them. In fact I remember that I sin. Jesus told his apostles to shake the dust from their shoes if someone turned them from their house. By simply walking away when someone doesn't like to be lectured is not very Christian in my opinion. If someone needs help one should help. Not walk away when they don't agree with you or change immediately. Change is hard and takes time.

Jesus only said to walk away when people turned them down from entering the house. He even went as far as to say abide by them in their house. He never said force yourself on them which is what you are making it sound like.

If they don't agree you walk away from them which makes no sense to me. Jesus liked to discuss and converse with others who were not of his religion (Judiasm) and he went against the norm to befriend the gentiles. Only those who flat out rejected him (told him to leave their home) were the ones who he walked away from.

You should live as a Christian. Live as Christ did. Help those who need help. By your actions of helping them they will see how a good Christian is. Preaching and then abandoning when they don't agree just hits me as against the teachings.

Don't walk away when they don't agree. Only walk away when they tell you to leave.

By walking away you are in a way judging them. That is God's job to do. Not yours.

Matthew 10:14: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

I'm talking about "flat out rejection", which is why I chose to reference that verse.

Those are the words of Jesus, and I believe that I will take His instruction. I'm not going to continue to try and force someone to accept the Gospel when they have indicated their choice not to. I always leave the door open, but I do not continue to discuss religion once another person has been clear about their desire not to accept.

You have assumed facts not in evidence and have proceeded to lecture me on how I live as a Christian-thus doing to me exactly what you accuse me of doing to others. That's the problem with lecturing others on their judgmental attitude, that one finger you point at them leaves 4 fingers pointing back at you.

 

[clgwli]

Matthew 10:14: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

I'm talking about "flat out rejection", which is why I chose to reference that verse.

Those are the words of Jesus, and I believe that I will take His instruction. I'm not going to continue to try and force someone to accept the Gospel when they have indicated their choice not to. I always leave the door open, but I do not continue to discuss religion once another person has been clear about their desire not to accept.

You have assumed facts not in evidence and have proceeded to lecture me on how I live as a Christian-thus doing to me exactly what you accuse me of doing to others. That's the problem with lecturing others on their judgmental attitude, that one finger you point at them leaves 4 fingers pointing back at you.

I assumed nothing. You said yourself that if they choose not to change that you will not help them.

How am I assuming if that is what you said?

People can listen to your words and not agree. That is not cause for shaking dust off the feet. They received you. They listened to you. They never shoved you out. You stated if they choose not to agree that you will not help.

Now if you meant differently then I am sorry. I am just going off of what you said. And if that is what you meant then you are NOT going by what Jesus said. Jesus never said agreeing needed to happen. He simply stated that if they do not want you in their lives then shake the dust off your shoes and leave. As in if they say "shut up and get out" then there is no hope. Not that they asked for help, then you gave your point of view, then they disagree, then you leave? Sorry makes no sense to me.

Again if I took you wrong I am sorry but you really made it sound like they had to agree with you or they were on their own.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

I assumed nothing. You said yourself that if they choose not to change that you will not help them.

How am I assuming if that is what you said?

People can listen to your words and not agree. That is not cause for shaking dust off the feet. They received you. They listened to you. They never shoved you out. You stated if they choose not to agree that you will not help.

Now if you meant differently then I am sorry. I am just going off of what you said. And if that is what you meant then you are NOT going by what Jesus said. Jesus never said agreeing needed to happen. He simply stated that if they do not want you in their lives then shake the dust off your shoes and leave. As in if they say "shut up and get out" then there is no hope. Not that they asked for help, then you gave your point of view, then they disagree, then you leave? Sorry makes no sense to me.

Again if I took you wrong I am sorry but you really made it sound like they had to agree with you or they were on their own.

Reading your post above makes it more obvious to me why you react the way you do. You've obviously had some bad experiences with some other Christians regarding your faith, so your first instinct is assume the worst about all of us.

If I wasn't clear enough-let me try again. I will speak to people about God, religion and the tenets of faith. If the person says to me: "I've heard what you say, and I'm glad it works for you, but I don't want any part of it." Then, I'm going to respect them and drop the conversation. If their lifestyle choices are such that I cannot support them- ex:heavy drinkers, drug users-then, yes, I'm likely to walk away. First of all, I don't need the temptation, and secondly, by hanging out with them when they're engaging in that behavior I'm signaling support. If they're interested in going to WDW for the day, or the beach and they're not bringing a cooler of alcohol-then I'm fine with that.

 

[disney junky]

I haven't read all the responses. I'll simply reply to the OP.

The apostles were being taught by Christ. They embraced him as the Messiah. I think he was warning them, and this continued in I John, the not everyone would. People don't like to be told that their way is wrong, it doesn't matter who they are, and so if you are presented something contrary to your previous way of believing, you will either (eventually) accept it as truth and act on it, or reject it as false.

The tough word here is world. "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost" That's not a set of rules. It's that Christ was the Messiah and he died for their sins.

 

[SydneyBristow]

I use to be a raging liberal and an agnostic. I would debate people till the cows came home, I thought it was fun. No one was EVER going to change my mind, not by making more laws or debating me, it just wasn't going to happen. I knew what I believed and I thought Christians were self righteous, hypocrites who thought they were better then everyone else. Being on the Dis boards didn't help that thought, time and time again I'd see people who called themselves Christian behaving in ways that were anything but Christ like.

Then on 9/11/06 my whole world changed, I became a born again Christian. I started to change without even realizing it, but others did, especially my family & friends up north. Some of the changes I could feel, especially when God taught me to love myself(I had a crippling lack of self esteem) but others just happened. As my relationship with Jesus got deeper I continued to changed even more. I use to be a TV junkie, spent countless hours in front of the TV watching garbage, we don't even have cable now and I love it. I had a terrible potty mouth, I would even curse in front of my kids. I use to preach that there were no "bad words" just "grown up" words, it's sad but true and thankfully changed. I prided myself on being brutally honest and when people got hurt I thought they were just being unreasonable, now I give the truth in love. My views on moral & social issues, how I dress, even how I spend my money, it's ALL changed. Now I'm still the same girl with a ridiculous amount of energy & a sarcastic sense of humor, still "me", I've just become a new & improved version of myself. It's all because of Jesus.

The point I'm trying to make is this- If we put all the passion and energy we spent fighting about politics into doing our job- to be witnesses and spread the gospel to the ends of the earth- think of how many people we could reach. We wouldn't have to worry about changing people through man made laws because Jesus will do all the work. Once people have Jesus in their hearts they'll want to change. I heard someone say the following once and I really loved it- I'm just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about someone that can change anybody. I believe that because with God all things are truly possible.

 

[Wishing on a star]

If we put all the passion and energy we spent fighting about politics into doing our job- to be witnesses and spread the gospel to the ends of the earth- think of how many people we could reach. We wouldn't have to worry about changing people through man made laws because Jesus will do all the work. Once people have Jesus in their hearts they'll want to change. I heard someone say the following once and I really loved it- I'm just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about someone that can change anybody. I believe that because with God all things are truly possible.

AMEN!!!!

Christ has the power...

It is the Word of God that saves men's souls, and changes men's heart...
Not the words of man. (endless arguments, statutes and laws, etc...)