For Christians

[disney junky]

I use to be a raging liberal and an agnostic. I would debate people till the cows came home, I thought it was fun. No one was EVER going to change my mind, not by making more laws or debating me, it just wasn't going to happen. I knew what I believed and I thought Christians were self righteous, hypocrites who thought they were better then everyone else. Being on the Dis boards didn't help that thought, time and time again I'd see people who called themselves Christian behaving in ways that were anything but Christ like.

Then on 9/11/06 my whole world changed, I became a born again Christian. I started to change without even realizing it, but others did, especially my family & friends up north. Some of the changes I could feel, especially when God taught me to love myself(I had a crippling lack of self esteem) but others just happened. As my relationship with Jesus got deeper I continued to changed even more. I use to be a TV junkie, spent countless hours in front of the TV watching garbage, we don't even have cable now and I love it. I had a terrible potty mouth, I would even curse in front of my kids. I use to preach that there were no "bad words" just "grown up" words, it's sad but true and thankfully changed. I prided myself on being brutally honest and when people got hurt I thought they were just being unreasonable, now I give the truth in love. My views on moral & social issues, how I dress, even how I spend my money, it's ALL changed. Now I'm still the same girl with a ridiculous amount of energy & a sarcastic sense of humor, still "me", I've just become a new & improved version of myself. It's all because of Jesus.

The point I'm trying to make is this- If we put all the passion and energy we spent fighting about politics into doing our job- to be witnesses and spread the gospel to the ends of the earth- think of how many people we could reach. We wouldn't have to worry about changing people through man made laws because Jesus will do all the work. Once people have Jesus in their hearts they'll want to change. I heard someone say the following once and I really loved it- I'm just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about someone that can change anybody. I believe that because with God all things are truly possible.

Amen sister!

 

[breezy1077]

My fellow believers:

How do you interpret the following passages?

John 15:18,19
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

John 17:14
"I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world."

1 John 3:13
"Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you."

I am replying without looking at any of the responses. I didn't want them to influence me, so sorry if this has already been discussed.

I interpret those passages (without referring back to context) as Jesus saying that when spreading the gospel - that we will be persecuted. Persecution can come in many forms, but I take it to mean that those he calls upon to deliver His message will suffer it. Both at the hands of men, and Satan.

Good gosh, I hope I got it right . It wasn't that long ago that I was born again so I'm not very well versed in the Bible, but I did read John.

 

[clgwli]

Reading your post above makes it more obvious to me why you react the way you do. You've obviously had some bad experiences with some other Christians regarding your faith, so your first instinct is assume the worst about all of us.

If I wasn't clear enough-let me try again. I will speak to people about God, religion and the tenets of faith. If the person says to me: "I've heard what you say, and I'm glad it works for you, but I don't want any part of it." Then, I'm going to respect them and drop the conversation. If their lifestyle choices are such that I cannot support them- ex:heavy drinkers, drug users-then, yes, I'm likely to walk away. First of all, I don't need the temptation, and secondly, by hanging out with them when they're engaging in that behavior I'm signaling support. If they're interested in going to WDW for the day, or the beach and they're not bringing a cooler of alcohol-then I'm fine with that.

Now you are the one who assumes. I took your text for the words that you placed on this site. You assume I have had enough bad dealings to hate Christians when I am one myself. I simply roll my eyes when I am labeled as a non-Christian or told I am wrong. Putting me down does nothing to me. If it makes the one putting me down feel better that is fine. But trying to belittle my opinions really doesn't matter to me. I am strong enough to live on my convictions.

And we will have to disagree with what a Christian is. I only leave when they tell me to leave. End of story. You leave when they tell you they can't live as you do. End of story.

I will make a comment on something you said. You are sheltering yourself from temptations too based on your post. Jesus also hung out with those who sinned. He was not one of them. Hanging with dogs to support is not the same as being a dog.

We won't ever agree on this and I don't mind. I will continue to be with people who do not think as me and support if they need help. I will leave when they tell me to leave as the Bible said for me to do. But not a moment beofre then.

But do not assume of me what I do not say in a post. I can deal with people who claim to be Christians but in the next breath knock me down and insult me. Doesn't make me hate the Christians as a whole. I don't even write them off myself. I simply realize they are not the same as me.

The only thing I do realize is that there are many who are hypocritical and claim to take the Bible as law only to take interpretations in ways that suit them best. Actually that is why we have divisions with in the Christian religion anyway. Someone didn't liek the interpretation the church gave them and they went off on their own.

This is also why I cannot be a Bible literalist. Too many differences in the different translations and even discrepencies on what is allowed to be labeled a book in the Bible.

So next time do not assume of me please. We all know what the joke about assuming is

 

[Wishing on a star]

It is NOT our job to make the world rule under our rules. God is not going to judge US for what OTHERS do. Christians have a bad habit of kind of suckering people into believing what they do. Look at Christmas, Easter & Halloween. We took our Christian beliefs and incorporated them with non-believers rituals.

I totally agree with the first sentence here...

But, on the second point.. about forcing our beliefs onto non-believers rituals, I just wanted to clarify.... The second sentence could be considered to be very very false.

Nobody can force a 'belief' on anyone else...

There is a huge difference between a belief and a 'celebration'

There is a HUGE difference between 'holy days' and 'holidays'...

There are very few true Christian holy days outlined in the scriptures... And, Christmas and Easter are NOT among them....

Sunday itself, according to many believers, is not even the true Sabbath....

Sunday, back in to antiquity, has been the day that other cultures worshiped the god of the sun.... (Saturday actually means 'sabbath', and is probably the true sabbath, as has always been recognized by the Jewish faith.) But 'Rome' instituted Sunday as the recognized holiday 'day off', completely corrupting the covenant and duty of the Sabbath Day.

Christmas is actually not a holy day, but was, again, a celebration to worship the sun (god of the sun), at the time of the winter solstice.

We should worship the SON, not the sun....

Easter, again, was a celebration to worship the gods... It was about worshiping the gods of fertility and renewal and the sun at the spring equinox.

However, in the unholy alliance between Rome and the early christian religion, all of the above 'holidays' were actually changed and instituted and enforced by the Roman powers that be. They did not choose to institute actually HOLY days, such as passover... they simply corrupted the true Christian beliefs and holy days.

To me I feel that this is outside forces 'of this world' corrupting true Christianity.. NOT the other way around.

 

[breezy1077]

As one who has been born again and baptised in the Holy Spirit - here is my take on it.

God has one will. On earth as it is in heaven. That's it. So, that is how I try to live my life.

I also believe that it's my responsibility to spread the gospel whenever the opportunity presents itself.

But how?

I try to do it in a very subtle way. I believe more folks are drawn to the light than to the bullhorn. So that's how I try to do it. I try to be the light. To live by example and just to live. By living in God's grace, mercy and peace - that is the light. Folks will recognize something different and not be able to distinguish what it is exactly, but they will be drawn to it nonetheless. Light will always displace darkness - every time!

"Judgement" only turns folks away. Jesus did not surround himself with the righteous - he surrounded himself with folks that were the exact opposite. Those are the people that I hope to attract in my walk with Christ.

Like I said - I'm kinda new to this, but this is what I have so far

 

[clgwli]

I totally agree with the first sentence here...

But, on the second point.. about forcing our beliefs onto non-believers rituals, I just wanted to clarify.... The second sentence could be considered to be very very false.

Nobody can force a 'belief' on anyone else...

There is a huge difference between a belief and a 'celebration'

There is a HUGE difference between 'holy days' and 'holidays'...

There are very few true Christian holy days outlined in the scriptures... And, Christmas and Easter are NOT among them....

Sunday itself, according to many believers, is not even the true Sabbath....

Sunday, back in to antiquity, has been the day that other cultures worshiped the god of the sun.... (Saturday actually means 'sabbath', and is probably the true sabbath, as has always been recognized by the Jewish faith.) But 'Rome' instituted Sunday as the recognized holiday 'day off', completely corrupting the covenant and duty of the Sabbath Day.

Christmas is actually not a holy day, but was, again, a celebration to worship the sun (god of the sun), at the time of the winter solstice.

We should worship the SON, not the sun....

Easter, again, was a celebration to worship the gods... It was about worshiping the gods of fertility and renewal and the sun at the spring equinox.

However, in the unholy alliance between Rome and the early christian religion, all of the above 'holidays' were actually changed and instituted and enforced by the Roman powers that be. They did not choose to institute actually HOLY days, such as passover... they simply corrupted the true Christian beliefs and holy days.

To me I feel that this is outside forces 'of this world' corrupting true Christianity.. NOT the other way around.

I have to disagee based on my studies. If you look at history you will find that persecution happened. People were forced to follow the laws of others beliefs or die. They were forced to follow the same rituals and laws whether they wanted to or not. They may not want to believe but many wound up doing so because it was easier.

Next time you don't have to lecture me on how religious holidays were formed. I did quite a lot of study on that thank you. Many traditions and rituals are taken from non-Christians. Holy days were moved to try to get others to follow the beliefs. It was fact and it worked ofr many. For example it wasn't until the 8th century that All Saints Day was moved to coincide with the pagan rituals. Not all were as early as you are implying.

But to claim that no one can be forced into a belief is not a fact as you so bolded.

I do need to tell you that you are incorrect. With the orthodox and Catohlic faiths Christmas, Easter, All Saints day etc are holy days. Holy days of obligation. To a Jew it wouldn't be. To a Catholic it would be

 

[jimmiej]

I think Christians are "hated" not for their stances, but the arrogance they can show. What I mean by that in the United States of America many Christians are trying to make their stance into law. They are so arrogant to think that everyone will be okay with that. A country founded on religious freedom by men half of which were not even Christians (rather just diests and no that isn't the same) is doing a horrible job of keeping religion out of politics.

Yes & No. Look at the current thread about the lesbian girls kicked out of a private Lutheran school. There are those that think the church's stance on sexual immorality is "hateful".

 

[Buckalew11]

But should they have expelled those girls? I do not know the answer.

As a parent who just last May pulled my child out of a christian school after 9 years, I wonder. That could easily happen in our old school also. Same type policies.
Is expelling showing the love of God? Are you really setting a presedence for the other students if you do not expel the girls? Do you expel the overweight kid? The girl with the boyfriend because they might have sex? I mean, the list could go on and on but homosexuality is the sin of choice to jump on and ridicule.
I pulled my child out because she was in a very unChristian atmosphere and the school was sweeping it under the rug. They certainly weren't obeying the "second greatest commandment of all" according to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself--"love your neighbor as yourself" and yet, guilty as those kids were, they were not expelled. Not sure I get it. Nor do I probably want to.

 

[Leshaface]

I use to be a raging liberal and an agnostic. I would debate people till the cows came home, I thought it was fun. No one was EVER going to change my mind, not by making more laws or debating me, it just wasn't going to happen. I knew what I believed and I thought Christians were self righteous, hypocrites who thought they were better then everyone else. Being on the Dis boards didn't help that thought, time and time again I'd see people who called themselves Christian behaving in ways that were anything but Christ like.

Then on 9/11/06 my whole world changed, I became a born again Christian. I started to change without even realizing it, but others did, especially my family & friends up north. Some of the changes I could feel, especially when God taught me to love myself(I had a crippling lack of self esteem) but others just happened. As my relationship with Jesus got deeper I continued to changed even more. I use to be a TV junkie, spent countless hours in front of the TV watching garbage, we don't even have cable now and I love it. I had a terrible potty mouth, I would even curse in front of my kids. I use to preach that there were no "bad words" just "grown up" words, it's sad but true and thankfully changed. I prided myself on being brutally honest and when people got hurt I thought they were just being unreasonable, now I give the truth in love. My views on moral & social issues, how I dress, even how I spend my money, it's ALL changed. Now I'm still the same girl with a ridiculous amount of energy & a sarcastic sense of humor, still "me", I've just become a new & improved version of myself. It's all because of Jesus.

The point I'm trying to make is this- If we put all the passion and energy we spent fighting about politics into doing our job- to be witnesses and spread the gospel to the ends of the earth- think of how many people we could reach. We wouldn't have to worry about changing people through man made laws because Jesus will do all the work. Once people have Jesus in their hearts they'll want to change. I heard someone say the following once and I really loved it- I'm just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about someone that can change anybody. I believe that because with God all things are truly possible.

Your post gave me goosebumps!!! =)

 

[clgwli]

Yes & No. Look at the current thread about the lesbian girls kicked out of a private Lutheran school. There are those that think the church's stance on sexual immorality is "hateful".

Please forgive me. I seriously do not want to take the time to read the whole thread. I truly cannot comment on that. I would say it is hateful if the school as a whole treated the way one of my friends (who just happened to be Lutheran for a strange coincidence) when they found out he was gay. My friend wanted to be a clergyman at first and he was sneered at and wound up having to leave because of the hateful things said and done to him. I won't go into details due to not wanting to give out too much private information if you can understand. That is hateful.

From what I understand of the story though. Two girls were "alleged" lesbians. Which means to me no proof. Kicking them out for a possibility would not be fair in my opinion. I do not know the school's exact rules but I truly think that if the girls were not acting in a poor manner while in uniform they shold not be punished either. That said it is a private school and they do make the rules.

I feel very much like Buckalew11 has stated.

 

[disney junky]

I just read a bit of the thread from the private school. The replies are sad.

 

[sanfran22]

It makes me happy and content.

Me too....shows what we are doing is correct. Stand strong, You will not be embraced exposing the truth....

 

[sanfran22]

But again, we're not supposed to measure to the world's standards. Of course, the world doesn't like it. In general, people do not like boundaries placed on them, they don't like to be told that something they want to do or that they like to do is wrong. If there are no absolute rights and wrongs, then people can do whatever they want without guilt or remorse.

Which, is the way we are going....it is so more evident now than just 20 yrs ago....the lines are seriously becoming blurred

 

[sanfran22]

I use to be a raging liberal and an agnostic. I would debate people till the cows came home, I thought it was fun. No one was EVER going to change my mind, not by making more laws or debating me, it just wasn't going to happen. I knew what I believed and I thought Christians were self righteous, hypocrites who thought they were better then everyone else. Being on the Dis boards didn't help that thought, time and time again I'd see people who called themselves Christian behaving in ways that were anything but Christ like.

Then on 9/11/06 my whole world changed, I became a born again Christian. I started to change without even realizing it, but others did, especially my family & friends up north. Some of the changes I could feel, especially when God taught me to love myself(I had a crippling lack of self esteem) but others just happened. As my relationship with Jesus got deeper I continued to changed even more. I use to be a TV junkie, spent countless hours in front of the TV watching garbage, we don't even have cable now and I love it. I had a terrible potty mouth, I would even curse in front of my kids. I use to preach that there were no "bad words" just "grown up" words, it's sad but true and thankfully changed. I prided myself on being brutally honest and when people got hurt I thought they were just being unreasonable, now I give the truth in love. My views on moral & social issues, how I dress, even how I spend my money, it's ALL changed. Now I'm still the same girl with a ridiculous amount of energy & a sarcastic sense of humor, still "me", I've just become a new & improved version of myself. It's all because of Jesus.

The point I'm trying to make is this- If we put all the passion and energy we spent fighting about politics into doing our job- to be witnesses and spread the gospel to the ends of the earth- think of how many people we could reach. We wouldn't have to worry about changing people through man made laws because Jesus will do all the work. Once people have Jesus in their hearts they'll want to change. I heard someone say the following once and I really loved it- I'm just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about someone that can change anybody. I believe that because with God all things are truly possible.

congrats!!! welcome to the family....

 

[Buckalew11]

I have a friend whose 15yo DD has come forward as being a lesbian. This girl has been brought up in a Baptist church and is still going. How will the church react to this when it is ''one of their own"? Her parents are heartbroken but love her and not trying to "fix" her. Honestly, I think her mom thinks it could be a passing phase at this age but who knows. Again, I wonder, as more people in the community find out and the church does, what will happen?

 

[clgwli]

I have a friend whose 15yo DD has come forward as being a lesbian. This girl has been brought up in a Baptist church and is still going. How will the church react to this when it is ''one of their own"? Her parents are heartbroken but love her and not trying to "fix" her. Honestly, I think her mom thinks it could be a passing phase at this age but who knows. Again, I wonder, as more people in the community find out and the church does, what will happen?

In the case of my friend he left the church and found another.

So if people shun "their own" and I have seen it, the shunned with either be completely turned away from religion or find another that will welcome them for whom they are. Some become depressed and withdrawn

I go to a church with my family where they have a strong homosexual population. All are welcomed. We love the sinners and try to forgive all sins that we make.

I think that is truly a wonderful thing for many who feel like they do not have home. It goes for all sinners too. I like it a lot and will continue to go to this church as long as I am able.

I do hope your friend becomes at peace with her DD's identity. I also hope that her DD will have a happy life and not feel some of the pain many of my much older gay friends feel.

 

[vt_disney_fan]

It means that the gospel of Christ can be offensive, but that shouldn't stop us from spreading it. Yes, there will be detracters along the way, those who don't agree, those who think completely differently and don't care for Christianity at all, but that shouldn't stop Christians from continuing to say and do what is right.

Being truly separate from the "world", including its worldly thinking, will, and probably should, include opposition. But as 1 John says, be in the world and not of it.

 

[Buckalew11]

clgwli, thank you for saying that. This mom was so shocked and I already knew it because the DD was seen at a ballgame with her girlfriend. When it hits home like this, you really see what you are made of and it really makes you think of how we treat others and are we really showing God's Love?

I also have a DD (14) and she is in youth group with this girl. I know my DD is watching me and all of us adults to see how we handle this. While they aren't close friends, DD has several lesbian friends in her life already. She seems to have a better grip on the Love part than people my age and older...

 

[clgwli]

Buckalew11, I think the younger ones have a better grasp on it. My mom was uptight about it all and when she found out that a friend of mine was lesbian she forbid me to see her anymore. I remained as close as I could with my friend while in school though. Then there was the case like the friend I mentioned. I also had a friend from HS who told me while in college he was gay. I attended his comittment ceremony as an attendant. The list goes on

I don't mean to say this to say "look at me and how great I am" just saying that sometimes it gets easier on the next generations and the acceptance level as well as the amount of love they get just grows in a good way.

My family did help me form my opinions though. I found it easier to love than to hate. I hope your friend's DD feels that from more than she does not.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I know that there are differences in opinion about this, but for me, personally, saying that homosexuality is a sin is the same as saying being black is a sin, being a woman is a sin. They were born that way. I know, the bible says that it is a sin, but in my heart, I can't believe that God would condemn someone for the chemistry in their brain, the way that they are born. I had a sociology teacher in college. Even she believed that sociology had a very small role in homosexuality, but that a person was born pre-destined to be attracted to a certain sex. Her brother was gay, and it was just something they always knew. Even when he was small. Same with my friend from high school. After he officially came out, we all told him we all ready knew. Times have changed, and we are blessed with the knowledge to understand that this century is much different from when Jesus walked the Earth.