For Christians

[N&B'smom]

Off topic...I noticed your cancer survivor ribbon. I am a thyroid cancer survivor....Yeah Us!!

I'm so glad you're doing okay!! A friend of mine just went through the same issue you had.

 

[Wishing on a star]

If there is anything that is painfully obvious, it is that Christians and Christianity are indeed 'hated'.... That simply can not be denied.

I find that when I read or hear from any person who is not a believer, and who speaks out as such... it is not just apathy, but pure and strong undertones of hatred and blame.

I believe that it is very true that one can not 'be of the world', follow man (or the words of man), worship both God and mammon....

I find the scripture that has been quoted to be simple and natural.

I actually find the scripture to be especially meaningful during this time in our countries history.

jj - you wrote: "The church's (and I believe the Bible's) stance of "Love the sinner, hate the sin" doesn't play well in today's world."

I am not so sure that this is the problem. The problem lies in judgement and self-righteousness... both of which are HUGE sins... both of which are strictly forbidden.. but both seem to be the mantra and the way of life of many so-called 'christians'. It seems that Satan is working very effectively within our religion.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

If there is anything that is painfully obvious, it is that Christians and Christianity are indeed 'hated'.... That simply can not be denied.

I find that when I read or hear from any person who is not a believer, and who speaks out as such... it is not just apathy, but pure and strong undertones of hatred and blame.

I believe that it is very true that one can not 'be of the world', follow man (or the words of man), worship both God and mammon....

I find the scripture that has been quoted to be simple and natural.

I actually find the scripture to be especially meaningful during this time in our countries history.

jj - you wrote: "The church's (and I believe the Bible's) stance of "Love the sinner, hate the sin" doesn't play well in today's world."

I am not so sure that this is the problem. The problem lies in judgement and self-righteousness... both of which are HUGE sins... both of which are strictly forbidden.. but both seem to be the mantra and the way of life of many so-called 'christians'. It seems that Satan is working very effectively within our religion.

It is not being judgmental to state that that a behavior is contrary to Christian teaching. It is simply stating a fact.

 

[Wishing on a star]

But again, we're not supposed to measure to the world's standards. Of course, the world doesn't like it. In general, people do not like boundaries placed on them, they don't like to be told that something they want to do or that they like to do is wrong. If there are no absolute rights and wrongs, then people can do whatever they want without guilt or remorse.

Reread the above...
I am not so sure the problem is not that some so-called christians feel that it is their personal duty to place boundaries and expectations on others...

When one does that, do they actually expect to loved and adored????

Not gonna happen. (for the reasons stated in the quote above)

If one wants to look at our current social issues thru the parameters of our politics..... When politicians are too close with so called 'Christian' organizations, and begin to legislate social religious morality, this will fail.... There will be hatred.

The combination of christianity and government is DISASTROUS and is an unholy alliance... Look all the way back to Rome and early Roman Catholocism.

Nothing is new under the son.
Basic truths never change.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I am not so sure that this is the problem. The problem lies in judgement and self-righteousness... both of which are HUGE sins... both of which are strictly forbidden.. but both seem to be the mantra and the way of life of many so-called 'christians'. It seems that Satan is working very effectively within our religion.

I think this is so true. I go to a new testament church, though we study the old testament. I very much struggle in the world of Christianity based on my beliefs, sometimes even within my own church. I cannot claim to have complete knowledge in the bible or know exactly what God wants us to do. But, at times I feel almost as if I am hated by the very people who share my faith in God. My faith has taught me that nothing is more important than my own personal relationship with God. The Bible is a wonderful tool to help you reach and develop that bond, but the faith in your relationship and the lasting impact that our Father has on one's life is the very essence of what a Good Christian aspires to.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I don't see any reason for interpretation. The meaning is clear.

I always liked that "Be Not Afriad" song as a kid. (Be not afraid, I go before you always, come follow me and I will give you rest.)

I've learned many things on the DIS and one of them is how deeply some people dislike Christians. As usual, I don't care much - it's their problem, not mine - but it was something I was surprised to learn.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

I will admit that the marriage of religion and politics concerns me. It's something that I do view as a potential problem. It allies us too much with the world, and the verses we're discussing clearly object to that.

However, I get a little weary of the accusations of "judgmental!!" and "intolerant" every time a Christian dares to suggest that an action or behavior is against Biblical teaching.

 

[Wishing on a star]

It is not being judgmental to state that that a behavior is contrary to Christian teaching. It is simply stating a fact.

Ask any non-believer....
And any true true Christian who follows Christ's true teachings.
There will be universal agreement.
Yes, it is judgemental.

Thinking that one can make that kind of determination and statement to others, who may or not be believers, is clearly passing judgement, thinking of oneself as god.... Judgement is reserved for our Heavenly Father.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I think this is so true. I go to a new testament church, though we study the old testament. I very much struggle in the world of Christianity based on my beliefs, sometimes even within my own church. I cannot claim to have complete knowledge in the bible or know exactly what God wants us to do. But, at times I feel almost as if I am hated by the very people who share my faith in God. My faith has taught me that nothing is more important than my own personal relationship with God. The Bible is a wonderful tool to help you reach and develop that bond, but the faith in your relationship and the lasting impact that our Father has on one's life is the very essence of what a Good Christian aspires to.

Amen!

 

[Wishing on a star]

I will admit that the marriage of religion and politics concerns me. It's something that I do view as a potential problem. It allies us too much with the world, and the verses we're discussing clearly object to that.

However, I get a little weary of the accusations of "judgmental!!" and "intolerant" every time a Christian dares to suggest that an action or behavior is against Biblical teaching.

I can understand your thoughts... however, it is a very very flawed viewpoint... Unless one is in a closed setting, a church, home, etc.. with likeminded believers, then how can one NOT expect to be hated, considered judgemental, intolerant, etc... What else would one expect... Yes, unrealistic expectations will result in frustration and disappointment.

One should be more concerned with their own life, their own relationship/walk with Christ.

 

[ford family]

But again, we're not supposed to measure to the world's standards. Of course, the world doesn't like it. In general, people do not like boundaries placed on them, they don't like to be told that something they want to do or that they like to do is wrong. If there are no absolute rights and wrongs, then people can do whatever they want without guilt or remorse.

Rights and wrongs were well understood and respected in society long before religion was invented.
Believing that you are superior to other people is offensive.

ford family

 

[JoyG]

I will admit that the marriage of religion and politics concerns me. It's something that I do view as a potential problem. It allies us too much with the world, and the verses we're discussing clearly object to that.
.

Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! That is something that's been bothering me for a little while now. I think Jimmie's verses could definitely be applied to that "social issue."

 

[jimmiej]

So what should our reaction be to the social issues of the day? "Live and let live"? I think there is some Scriptual basis for that.

On the other hand, will God not "judge the nations"? If so, is it not our duty to stand up for God's ideals?

I really struggle with this issue.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Rights and wrongs were well understood and respected in society long before religion was invented.
Believing that you are superior to other people is offensive.

ford family

You're inferring a belief in superiority where none exists. Christians are sinners, and we all know that we are sinners. "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

I can respect that you do not share our faith, but I have to wonder why you feel you must come in and post on a thread plainly titled "For Christians". I have seen a thread on the DIS labeled "Godless Heathens" on the DIS and I would never go over there and post criticisms of those members.

 

[JoyG]

So what should our reaction be to the social issues of the day? "Live and let live"? I think there is some Scriptual basis for that.

On the other hand, will God not "judge the nations"? If so, is it not our duty to stand up for God's ideals?

I really struggle with this issue.

Are we supposed to have a reaction to the social issues? Or are we supposed to go into all the world and preach the gospel? (I don't actually know the answer to the first question myself).

I don't think making disciples of people and protesting gay marriage is the same thing (just throwing that up as an example).

We have our marching orders as christians. Sometimes I wonder if we (christians as a collective) haven't been focusing on the wrong things.

 

[cybrkitn]

My interpretations:

Do not conform to this world, but be focused on Him. Our time on here is short, but it's our souls that matter. Even though the people hated Jesus, He still LOVED them just as the Father loves us. We are to act as the Father does and love those who hate and persecute us.

The text preceeding your first passage was Jesus telling us to pray for those who persecute us and bless those who curse us.

 

[bubie2.5]

To me “the world” would be the majority. Either religious, political... It tells us to don’t worry about what the majority thinks and instead focus on our relationship with God, since we are, after all, made in His image.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Are we supposed to have a reaction to the social issues? Or are we supposed to go into all the world and preach the gospel? (I don't actually know the answer to the first question myself).

I don't think making disciples of people and protesting gay marriage is the same thing (just throwing that up as an example).

We have our marching orders as christians. Sometimes I wonder if we (christians as a collective) haven't been focusing on the wrong things.

Me too. Living down here in Florida, we spent a lot of time talking about Amendment 2 in church. Once the election was over, I was relieved and hoped we could get back to talking about the Bible-but NO, now all we talk about is how the President is going to sign FOCA and how we have to write our Senators and Congress members about that!

DH and I have been talking about this for a while because we both believe that we need to stand up for our values, but the constant discussion of political issues to the exclusion of Bible teaching is bothering us.

 

[cybrkitn]

IA.

To everyone: How do you think this applies to today's social issues? The church's (and I believe the Bible's) stance of "Love the sinner, hate the sin" doesn't play well in today's world.

I don't think it plays very well in today's world b/c, IMO, it's not done out of love. Some Christians (including myself) try too hard and push "religion" rather than love. We can tend to be a bit judgemental (and sometimes with a "holier than thou" attitude) without meaning to. Instead of pulling closer, we are pushing away. Like oil and water. And, I'll admit, I'm definately guilty of that. As the old saying goes, you catch more bees with honey...

 

[Buckalew11]

Often it is asked whether things on a BB can change your mind about a topic or not. 9 out of 10 times the answer is no. I have admitted in the past and will admit it again that yes, discussion on a BB has changed my mind about a subject.

In the past year or so, I have been thinking heavily on this type of topic I have said here many times that as a church member, I have often thought if you want the heat taken off your sins, just throw out the word homosexual and all the heat is off you and onto the hot topic that no one (most likely) is guilty about so they can all jump on it!

I have never been OK with that. Why? Mostly because I have 2 friends who are lesbians. Not involved with each other but they are friends also. These are 2 women who I dearly love. In fact, I allow my DD to travel to places with one and I am sure I would be judged for that by some members of my church. DH and I have discussed the possiblility of DD living with her if something tragic happened to us. I trust this woman with my life...I trust her with my child's life. I cannot say that about many people, ya know?

Once you have a relationship with someone who is from the GL community, it changes everything. The "fear" often spoken about is gone. The labels are thrown out the window. While I still wonder exactly what the Bible says about this topic, because I have never been given good enough answers, I have come to realize that I am not a wishy-washy Christian. I am not some sin-condoneing Christian. I am not some mis-guided Christian.

No, I am a Christian who is still learning...learning to love others, learning to leave the judging to the Lord, learning that maybe it is more about OUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. My lesbian friends will answer for themselves. My fat friends will answer for themselves. My smoking friends will answer for themselves. My other religion friends will answer for themselves. my non-believing friends will answer for themselves etc., etc., etc. My job is to love them--to show God's Love to them. My job is to work on myself so that I can show others who God is through my life's actions/words.

I have sat here before and typed "love the sinner, hate the sin" type things. I have been told I am hating when I am not hating. Yes, I do think it is wrong but you know, I might be wrong in that belief. I also think sins are all the same in God's eyes. Sin separates us from God. Whether that sin is pre-martial sex, eating too much, not taking care of our bodies (God's temple), whatever it is, all the same to me.

I do not understand homosexuality one bit. I do not understand attraction between same sex people therefore I know little about what it is really like. Therefore, I am going to bow out of trying to understand/judge/crititize and leave that up to the Good Lord.
It is not my job to walk up to a fat person and say they are wrong to eat too much. Their weight may end up killing them but it is none of my business, really. If I love that person does that make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. Will I be ehld accountable for not teaching that person "better"? I do not know. I have decided to suck that up if it happens. I'll just love the person the way they are and leave that up to God.

Now, in answer to the OP's questions...I think, as others stated, that we should expect it. However, let them hate me because I love the Lord God who they do not acknowledge...not because I am judging their lifestyles.

I think of Daniel and what he did when he found himself in his own "foreign" land. He did not join them and he prayed and remained faithful to God. AAfter much thought about this topic, that is what I will also be striving to do knowing I am accountable for *Brenda* before the Lord.