Flu shots - why not?

[Sorsha]

With all due respect, this statement demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of immunology. Vaccines work by triggering a lasting immune response in your body's immune system. They accomplish this because the selected antigen(s) in the vaccine (be they live, attenuated, or dead) allow the immune system to learn how to produce antibodies against the target pathogen. This effect lasts long after the vaccine leaves your body. While it may be true to say that often times live/attenuated vaccines may trigger a stronger, longer lasting, immune response, it's wrong to try and say that vaccines that employ dead antigens offer no lasting effect.

The need for annual influenza vaccines isn't because that our vaccines offer no lasting protection because they're "dead", it's because the flu virus is extremely good at mutating compared with other pathogens.

I respectfully stand corrected then. Thanks for clearing that up.

My point still stands however.

I don't care. With as little a threat as influenza poses to me and mine, with our healthy immune systems, and the relatively small threat to life and limb in the US in general I don't find influenza to be a large enough risk to justify the expense, inconvenience, and/or possible side effects of an unneccesary vaccine every year. Even the CDC reports numbers as small as 5000-ish deaths in the USA, and some 90% of deaths are in adults 65 and older. It just plain doesn't matter to me. To each his own though.

Now, if someone could come up with a vaccine to the bloody stinking 24 hour stomach bug the kids all seem to get at the beginning of every school year, we would be ALL OVER that!!

 

[Pigeon]

I don't get them for most of the reasons others have mentioned. I'm old enough that the flu was a very common illness when I was growing up, and I've had it several times. It was not a big deal and I do not think it is the big threat it's made out to be unless you are in high risk group. I'm not anti-vax for things like polio.

What I do enjoy is the annual CDC-induced media hype. Around this time of year, we're all told we should get our flu shots ASAP or we will be belly up in no time.

Then the shortage sets in. We are informed that the CDC has determined that unless we are in a high risk group, we will be just fine without the shot and not to worry our pretty little heads about it.

A few months later, more vax is shipped. Despite the fact that flu season is largely past, if you haven't gotten the shot, you'd better get your behind in to the doc for it ASAP or you will keel over dead on the spot.

 

[Owl's Friend]

My dh and I never get sick, so if it ain't broke don't fix it. The kids both have egg allergies so we won't do them (they are very healthy, never get sick).

 

[onelilspark]

I've never gotten a flu shot. I mean, I get colds and occasionally the flu through the winter, but I know when I'm getting sick and I take care of myself. When I was a teenager I got the MMR vaccine and wound up with red bumps on my stomach.

While I'm certainly not anti-vaccine, I just don't see the point in trying to vaccinate yourself against a few strains of a disease that isn't going to kill you if you recognize when you get sick that you need to take care of yourself.

 

[Geoff_M]

My dh and I never get sick, so if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I understand not getting them due to egg allergies, but this statement reminds me of the people that say "I been driving a car for 30 years now and have never worn a seat belt in my life, and it hasn't hurt me! Why should I start now?"

 

[Bilberry]

I take vitamin D3, the sunshine vitamin, which has some science to it that it is able to prevent the flu, or lessen it's effects if you come down with it. Since taking D3, I've been pretty much flu free for 5 years, other than some minor sniffles.

I stopped getting the flu shot just on observation of family members. Many of them get a flu shot and shortly afterwards come down with an illness. It happens nearly every time. I don't know what to make of it. Neither do they, but they keep getting the shot.

An article about D3 helping to prevent the flu from Dr. Cannell's sight:

Influenza Patient friendly summary

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health-conditions/infections-and-autoimmunity/influenza/

 

[Deb in IA]

My dh and I never get sick, so if it ain't broke don't fix it. The kids both have egg allergies so we won't do them (they are very healthy, never get sick).

Just FYI - most children, even those with severe anaphylaxic reactions to egg, can safely receive the influenza vaccine.

http://www.webmd.com/allergies/news/20080319/flu-vaccine-safe-for-egg-allergic-kids

 

[Kath2003]

It's interesting that countries with UHC only offer the vaccine to particular groups of people. That indicates that:
1. It's not economically viable to vaccinate everyone
2. No one really cares about the number of cases of flu. They only care about the SERIOUS cases of flu. Why vaccinate everyone (see #1) when most will recover without requiring any form of medical treatment?

 

[Deb in IA]

Communicability.

With something as highly contagious as influenza, someone could easily pass it on to someone else who then develops a SERIOUS case.

 

[LisaR]

I understand not getting them due to egg allergies, but this statement reminds me of the people that say "I been driving a car for 30 years now and have never worn a seat belt in my life, and it hasn't hurt me! Why should I start now?"

To each their own but I am a believer in allowing our bodies to experience some normal, natural consequences. I don't believe in taking a pill to stop menstruation, getting a shot to prevent the flu, taking a pill to prevent something that can be controlled through other means, or pouring Purell over my body so a speck of germ doesn't land on me. Obviously, not everyone feels the same way. On the other hand, I can't prevent what the driver next to me had to drink before he stepped behind the wheel of his car so I wear my seat belt even though I haven't had a car accident in 30+ years (knock on wood). If I get in a car accident and the other driver sneezes on me while we are exchanging information, I feel confident that my immune system will work properly and allow the bug to run its course. My immune system can't prevent an SUV from hitting me so I take other precautions.

 

[Kath2003]

Communicability.

With something as highly contagious as influenza, someone could easily pass it on to someone else who then develops a SERIOUS case.

Right so you vaccinate the elderly, those with compromised immunity and those in close contact with these people. That's what most countries with UHC do. That's going to get you the most effectiveness with fewest vaccinations. Is the rate of influenza much higher in the UK where only these groups of people are vaccinated than in the US where it's available to everyone? I'd be interested to know.

 

[Sorsha]

Communicability.

With something as highly contagious as influenza, someone could easily pass it on to someone else who then develops a SERIOUS case.

But if that person knows that they have issues that would make them more likely to develop a serious case - if they are older, or have a weakened immune system, if they are HIV positive, or have any of the other risk factors that might cause them to have complications from influenza - then the responsibility is theirs not mine to get a flu shot and protect themselves. I am not their mommy nor their nursemaid, nor should I have to provide for their immunity.

It then follows that if someone were living in my house, or even in my neighborhood, or if my children had someone in their classrooms, etc and that person had compromised immunity, I would reconsider not getting a flu shot to help protect them. But, as far as I know, this is not the case, so, at this point, not an issue.

 

[lizabu]

For those of you who choose not to get the flu shot - what guides your decision? I have a friend who is having a rant on fb about not 'putting that crap' into her children - if they get the flu, that's what hospitals are for. I always get the shot, my kids too - so I'm just curious as to why people who don't, don't? No flames from me - just wondering.

ummm...no...thats not what hospitals are for

 

[Geoff_M]

To each their own but I am a believer in allowing our bodies to experience some normal, natural consequences.

You can "believe" anything you'd like. But here's the funny thing; there's this false notion out there in some circles that vaccines usurp, or somehow bypass, our immune systems... when in fact vaccines very much utilize the natural processes of our own natural systems. Look, you can keep roll'n the dice, or take lots of vitamins, or drink apple cider vinegar, or do whatever you want. But none of what will change the fact that a naive immune system isn't a good match against a specific pathogen that it doesn't know how to make antibodies against.

 

[FireDancer]

But if that person knows that they have issues that would make them more likely to develop a serious case - if they are older, or have a weakened immune system, if they are HIV positive, or have any of the other risk factors that might cause them to have complications from influenza - then the responsibility is theirs not mine to get a flu shot and protect themselves. I am not their mommy nor their nursemaid, nor should I have to provide for their immunity.

Yeah, I hear the "but you have to get it for other people" argument and I don't buy into it either. I am not going to base my medical decisions on someone else's immune system. If it were a family member that I lived with I might conciser it but I lived with my grandma (who was in her mid 70's) and great grandma (who was in her mid 90's) while I was in college and never got it then either. They go it but I didn't.

 

[cornflake]

I used to get them when I was teaching, but I don't anymore. I don't think they have been proven to be effective. We know the polio vaccine is effective. . .it has pretty much eradicated polio. Flu vaccination hasn't eradicated influenza. I can't remember the exact details, but something like 65% of the elderly now receive flu vaccination, but the incidence of influenza and complications of it hasn't declined. You would think there should be a correlation.

Vaccines work the same way. Of course the flu vaccine is effective.

Even if it wasn't a general thing, it's FDA approved and been tested for decades. It's not out in the public if no one is sure of its efficacy on an on-label use.

It isn't supposed to eradicate influenza, influenza mutates, hence people need a new vaccination every year for the new strain(s) circulating. As Geoff notes, you DO get lifelong immunity from strains you're vaccinated against, but the strains keep mutating.

How would people feel if and when they come out with the superflu vaccine, designed to protect against all and future strains?

 

[Geoff_M]

But if that person knows that they have issues that would make them more likely to develop a serious case - if they are older, or have a weakened immune system, if they are HIV positive, or have any of the other risk factors that might cause them to have complications from influenza - then the responsibility is theirs not mine to get a flu shot and protect themselves.

But the Catch-22 is that often times because of such things like you mention they cannot be given the vaccine themselves and must rely on the hope that the disease vector does not reach them. So what's the mother of a 3-month old baby supposed to do?

 

[Deb in IA]

Right so you vaccinate the elderly, those with compromised immunity and those in close contact with these people.

That would be fine if we never traveled, never co-mingled, never had any contact with anyone outside of these groups.

And that is just not the case.

 

[Sorsha]

But the Catch-22 is that often times because of such things like you mention they cannot be given the vaccine themselves and must rely on the hope that the disease vector does not reach them.

I cannot protect everyone; and refuse to live my life in a bubble, taking every pharmaceutical that is pushed upon me by the industry, in the hopes of protecting every single person I may cross paths with.

You will note, in the part of my post you did NOT quote, that I said that if I was aware that my decision would impact someone directly involved with me, I would reconsider. I will do no more than that.

 

[Nette]

There is an awful lot of people saying that a vaccine will give you immunity for life from some pathogen. This is NOT TRUE.

Studies on the Chicken Pox vaccine showed immunity in only a small percentage of people after 5 years. Hence the need for boosters.