Fastpass return or replacement?

[Mac30188]

That's where the rumor lost me. Core values that the company only holds in Florida? I don't remember free fast passes being one of the 'keys' but maybe a cast member can correct me?

I am translating that to, "we suspect it may damage the brand by coming off as too greedy" or "we don't want to alienate a sizable chunk of our customer base."

One thing I find interesting from both the rumors and response on this thread is the sizable pushback on paid fastpasses. While paid services to shorten your line are a pretty standard component to most theme parks, it seems like for Disney to implement this may generate more than a normal amount of frustration. This could be another case of people lose their minds when you start charging for something that was previously given for free. By giving it for free it creates a sense of a Fastpass has limited to no monetary value in the customer's mind. Trying to change their perception that the Fastpass is worth money is sometimes quite volatile. I have seen customers voluntarily pay more than we were trying to charge for the same service because they didn't want that feeling of paying for something that was once given for free. I kind of chuckle everytime I see,"If they do this we are going to Universal." How many of these people would then end up spending even more money on Express passes just to avoid spending money on a Fastpass system?

Ironically, it is this fear of bad publicity that could impact the Disney brand that may be delaying the return of any system.

 

[lukemorenus]

If true, that system sounds pretty good... a little something for everyone... and it will be fun to figure out the best fit for our particular type of touring

 

[mshanson3121]

I don't think that there is currently "lots of abuse"

You may not think so, but plenty of people do think there's currently lots of abuse.

 

[dez1978]

She wrote me again -- she apparently likes talking about it, especially since other teams seem to be leaking stuff, too.

Because there are questions:

1) she's at corporate. Very excited to be moving home in a couple of years. Went to high school together. Broke my heart when she went with someone else to prom junior year.
2) I got the impression that stuff like M&Gs, exclusive parade and fireworks viewing were part of this. But she insinuated that this rollout is part of the reason ADRs haven't gone back to 180 days yet
3) Just part of one team that talked about plans. She said it would be normal for there to be competing plans.
4) A good chance FP will just come back. But from what she understands, they don't love tons of park hopping, and the reservation system keeps that in check. FPs with park hopping has always been a mess.
5) Virtual queues for everything had a BIG push for a while, but enthusiasm has tapered off.
6) the difference with the Genie and FPs is the Genie basically assigns you a time slot instead of you selecting it from a list. This gets you out of their database faster. So you'd say a Genie in the morning, not a FP at 8:50. And it becomes a sort of get what you get. You'd still get a time and a window (albeit shorter) so it would be a lot more regulated than it is. Snd instead of you being able to group your FPs in the morning, for example, the Genie would space them out throughout the day.
7) inside, there are BIG battles about paid FPs in any form. They know the money would be huge -- one analyst said it would be bigger than actual park admission revenue -- but the brand damage would be tremendous.
8) she'd like to meet my wife and kids when she gets back to Orlando.

Out of all the ideas/rumors that have been thrown out there, I like this one the most lol. I can work with this.

 

[PaladinButters]

This could be another case of people lose their minds when you start charging for something that was previously given for free.

Like when they take away Magical Express and now I gotta pay Mears to take the same bus ride?

I kind of chuckle everytime I see,"If they do this we are going to Universal."

YES! Y'all know Universal charges for express pass, right? (And Six Flags, and Cedar Fair, and even other Disney parks.....)

 

[cakebaker]

I don't think that there is currently "lots of abuse", mainly because the DAS is not an advantage. I wait in line. You wait somewhere else. We both get to ride at the same time. It's just a function of who waits where. It's an accommodation that puts everyone on an even playing field.

But offering the equivalent of a free LP to DAS guests when a standby line closes will just entice more people to abuse it. I enter a VQ in order to just join a standby line. You get a DAS to return when the standby line reopens. I wait another 15-20 minutes once I get a call to return. You get to go up the FP queue. That creates an advantage for some to lie about their needs. It's essentially getting a free LP for that attraction. And if you think that won't incentivize some unscrupulous people, I have a bridge to sell...

Not to turn this into a discussion on DAS, but to say using a DAS is no more advantageous than just standing in line isn't really accurate. Right up front- I have no problem with people who need DAS having it. BUT- it is much more convenient just in general in that you don't have to stand in a long line for hours. You don't have to ride when your time to return arrives- you can, but you can also ride hours later if you choose. That means that while someone in the regular line is tied up doing nothing for however long the line is, someone with a DAS is free to get on other rides, shop, eat, sit in a cool place- whatever they wish. And that's great for those who really need it, but it's also an incentive to cheat to get that advantage.

The only difference with LP is that it will cost some amount of money and yes, that adds to the temptation to cheat, but the temptation is there now, especially with no FP option since the re-opening, and there's obviously not enough abuse to the point Disney feels like they need to take action. So sure, there are a certain number who will attempt to cheat, but I think that number will be small enough that it really won't impact anyone. Infuriating that someone would do that? Sure. Impactful on someone else's experience? I don't believe it will be.

Again, I'm not saying DAS gives those who need it an edge- they have challenges in so many ways that I can't begin to imagine that DAS just makes their experience a little better- but it is an advantageous system to those who don't need it as it exists today. If it was ripe with abuse, Disney would do something just as they have in the past if it were.

 

[SarahWI]

You may not think so, but plenty of people do think there's currently lots of abuse

I absolutely agree there are people who need the DAS for both visible and not visible reasons. Of late though I have seen on other board sites and FB groups people saying “my kid doesn’t like to wait in line.” Multiple other people chime in saying how they now have a DAS because they told guest services their kid has an anxiety disorder. Is this actually happening? I don’t know but the advice to get a DAS to manage not wanting to wait in line is circulating already. I’d guess it will accelerate if the DAS gets them something for free that everyone else pays for.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I can see that inviting a lot of DAS abuse. Why pay for LP if you can finagle a DAS? And before someone jumps down my throat for that comment, I'm not referring to those who have a legitimate need. I'm talking about the con artists who lie and abuse the system.

Yeah, I could see this being a problem. When fastpass was free there wasn't a huge incentive to abuse the DAS system. In fact, I know at least one person who is probably DAS eligible but didn't bother precisely because the free fastpass system was good enough. Now there will be an incentive to abuse the system. Whether or not people will actually abuse it I don't know.

 

[Rich Bastien]

I don't think that there is currently "lots of abuse", mainly because the DAS is not an advantage. I wait in line. You wait somewhere else. We both get to ride at the same time. It's just a function of who waits where. It's an accommodation that puts everyone on an even playing field.

But offering the equivalent of a free LP to DAS guests when a standby line closes will just entice more people to abuse it. I enter a VQ in order to just join a standby line. You get a DAS to return when the standby line reopens. I wait another 15-20 minutes once I get a call to return. You get to go up the FP queue. That creates an advantage for some to lie about their needs. It's essentially getting a free LP for that attraction. And if you think that won't incentivize some unscrupulous people, I have a bridge to sell...

I second this entire post. Once you create a financial incentive for people to fake DAS, faking DAS will explode unless Disney puts in more stringent ways to ensure it's not going to be abused, and that just makes it harder for people who have a legitimate DAS need to get DAS.

 

[O.Jones]

We've Riviera booked for 11 nights in July 22. If this comes to pass, I'll be staying offsite and I won't be returning. What blew me away as a kid in 92 has been diminished nearly every year since the start of the century. It's death by a thousand of cuts. The price goes up and the experience gets worse. I feel for those who never saw the place at its peak.

I've already cancelled my (twice postponed) DLP trip.

 

[CSLucas]

I absolutely agree there are people who need the DAS for both visible and not visible reasons. Of late though I have seen on other board sites and FB groups people saying “my kid doesn’t like to wait in line.” Multiple other people chime in saying how they now have a DAS because they told guest services their kid has an anxiety disorder. Is this actually happening? I don’t know but the advice to get a DAS to manage not wanting to wait in line is circulating already. I’d guess it will accelerate if the DAS gets them something for free that everyone else pays for.

I feel bad for the poor kids who have to listen to their parents tell strangers they have an anxiety disorder when they don't - that's terrible! But yes, I absolutely believe certain people will always find a way to cheat any system, it's just a matter of how many people are willing to do it (and I think getting something "free" is sadly probably enough to push some more people over that line). Still, though, I don't think there are enough people who would abuse it on average to really make a huge difference in whether the system works - the only loser is Disney since they wouldn't get the extra money. I doubt average guest wait time would be significantly impacted.

 

[mshanson3121]

I second this entire post. Once you create a financial incentive for people to fake DAS, faking DAS will explode unless Disney puts in more stringent ways to ensure it's not going to be abused, and that just makes it harder for people who have a legitimate DAS need to get DAS.

Easy fix - ask for proof of disability or need. A simple letter from doctor. I don't know anyone with a disability that has an issue providing proof. The ones that make noise about it are typically the ones abusing the system. It's not fail proof, as yes, letters can be forged, but it's better than nothing. Requiring proof will deter most people. Those that are willing to go so far as forge medical documents are the scum of the earth that will find their way around anything, anyways.

 

[charmed59]

If one of the new options ends up looking like the DAS it’s possible the DAS will just go away. Right now, if someone can’t stand in line due to a broken leg or bad back it is considered a mobility problem, and Disney’s answer is to rent a wheel chair so you can sit in line. Yes, it costs you money, but that’s on you. So if you can’t handle waiting in line the answer may be buy a LP.

 

[Cynner]

Personally, I think it will all work out. I got really annoyed by the addition of parking charges at the resorts, but when I did the actual math of how much it would cost to park vs the room amount, it was such a drop in the bucket I didn't really care. Compared to renting a car and the convenience of driving wherever I want is still worth it.
For the paid FPs, I'll do the same sort of cost-benefit-analysis. Which rides do I REALLY need a paid pass for? I'll plan my early hours and extra hours accordingly. I would much much prefer a pass like the Universal all day all ride pass, but I only do that as part of their deluxe resorts - I've never bought it separately.
My first WDW trip was in 1975, but I've gone every 3 years since 1991. WDW has added TONS of stuff since then, and I love almost all of it. So expecting the price to stay the same when there is so much more to do I think is kinda misguided. I don't disagree that tickets are steep as it is, but do think folks need to think about everything that *is* included in them.

 

[mshanson3121]

If one of the new options ends up looking like the DAS it’s possible the DAS will just go away. Right now, if someone can’t stand in line due to a broken leg or bad back it is considered a mobility problem, and Disney’s answer is to rent a wheel chair so you can sit in line. Yes, it costs you money, but that’s on you. So if you can’t handle waiting in line the answer may be buy a LP.

Guarantee this will NOT happen. Disney is not going to take away DAS which is FREE for people with disability and make them pay for it instead. For starters, the ADA would be all over it, and it absolutely would hurt them.

 

[Miffy]

Genie will assign basically random FPs? Did I read that previous post correctly? Someone thinks this is a good idea?

Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I don't ride every ride or go to every attraction at every park. I have favorites and I have things I never want to do. Also, I like doing what I want to do, not what some algorithm tells me to do. Sheesh.

ETA: Not everyone has a "go on a tour" proclivity. I have friends who have a tour guide they like and they'll go wherever she's going, even if it's somewhere they previously had no interest in. I'm not like that. I would never go on a tour unless it was the only way to see somewhere I desperately wanted to go. I like doing things myself, doing the research and planning, and sometimes winging it. Genie and I will not be compatible. I do not want my WDW experience curated by an algorithm, or by anyone else.

 

[Stefne]

I am translating that to, "we suspect it may damage the brand by coming off as too greedy" or "we don't want to alienate a sizable chunk of our customer base."

One thing I find interesting from both the rumors and response on this thread is the sizable pushback on paid fastpasses. While paid services to shorten your line are a pretty standard component to most theme parks, it seems like for Disney to implement this may generate more than a normal amount of frustration. This could be another case of people lose their minds when you start charging for something that was previously given for free. By giving it for free it creates a sense of a Fastpass has limited to no monetary value in the customer's mind. Trying to change their perception that the Fastpass is worth money is sometimes quite volatile. I have seen customers voluntarily pay more than we were trying to charge for the same service because they didn't want that feeling of paying for something that was once given for free. I kind of chuckle everytime I see,"If they do this we are going to Universal." How many of these people would then end up spending even more money on Express passes just to avoid spending money on a Fastpass system?

Ironically, it is this fear of bad publicity that could impact the Disney brand that may be delaying the return of any system.

The difference for me is that Express Pass at Universal with your deluxe resort stay is a lot more affordable than I believe the Disney option will be. We paid right under $600 rack rate for our room at Royal Pacific last month with all fees included (parking, taxes, rollaway, etc). With that $600 though we received 2 days of unlimited, instant access Express Pass for 5 people and an incredibly nice room. Now if Disney follows the same model and grants me unlimited, FP for 2 days with my night at YC, I would be the first to sign up. We all know though it will never be that affordable with Disney. For the record, we did not purchase EP for our Volcano Bay day due to how expensive it was, but we still had a great day with their free tapu option.

 

[Craig Larson]

Genie will assign basically random FPs? Did I read that previous post correctly? Someone thinks this is a good idea?

Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I don't ride every ride or go to every attraction at every park. I have favorites and I have things I never want to do. Also, I like doing what I want to do, not what some algorithm tells me to do. Sheesh.

ETA: Not everyone has a "go on a tour" proclivity. I have friends who have a tour guide they like and they'll go wherever she's going, even if it's somewhere they previously had no interest in. I'm not like that. I would never go on a tour unless it was the only way to see somewhere I desperately wanted to go. I like doing things myself, doing the research and planning, and sometimes winging it. Genie and I will not be compatible. I do not want my WDW experience curated by an algorithm, or by anyone else.

It sounds like with Genie, you tell it 3 wishes you want to do for the day. The free version will potentially notify you when waits are low (comparatively for that ride). It sounds like the Genie+ paid version will create an optimized schedule for you (like touring plans does), and perhaps offers for you to buy a lightning pass to reduce your wait time.

 

[Mac30188]

The difference for me is that Express Pass at Universal with your deluxe resort stay is a lot more affordable than I believe the Disney option will be. We paid right under $600 rack rate for our room at Royal Pacific last month with all fees included (parking, taxes, rollaway, etc). With that $600 though we received 2 days of unlimited, instant access Express Pass for 5 people and an incredibly nice room. Now if Disney follows the same model and grants me unlimited, FP for 2 days with my night at YC, I would be the first to sign up. We all know though it will never be that affordable with Disney. For the record, we did not purchase EP for our Volcano Bay day due to how expensive it was, but we still had a great day with their free tapu option.

Certainly the room makes it a better deal, but currently per person
69.99 One time per ride
89.99 Unlimited

If it is 9.99 per Fast pass then it would take approximately 7 Fast passes to break even with Express Pass Limited and 9 for Unlimited.

Disney pricing is still just a guess, but I am guessing that Disney will not be noticeably less affordable than Universal (room deal excluded)

 

[charmed59]

Guarantee this will NOT happen. Disney is not going to take away DAS which is FREE for people with disability and make them pay for it instead. For starters, the ADA would be all over it, and it absolutely would hurt them.

The predecessor to the DAS included people who couldn’t physically stand in lines because they got too tired. They did take that away, as Disney felt wheelchairs mitigated the problem. And yes people sued under ADA, and that didn’t change anything. So yes, the Disney took away something that was free for people who were disabled and asked people to pay for wheelchairs instead.