Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[mesaboy2]

Affect always exists it is not "may" or "possibly", and it is the crucial part of this discussion. While affect may or may not big great, nobody really knows, the very existance of it makes it wrong. You said Disney created system to manage lines, got it but who puts late FPers in charge to affect other people experience. It is one of those situations when few benefit at expense of many. Like would you find it acceptable to trick million people by just $1, would it mean that much to them to loose just $1? Same principle here.

The thing about this thread, late FPers deny this affect or pretend it is not that great, to justify themselves, they are perfectly aware that this was just a loophole, plenty of evidences to that, yet cry that now their experience affected. So in other words they cry about not being able to take advantage of us no matter how small or big this advantage is and expect us show compassion. Realy?

I'm going to jump back in for this one final post.

Did you not say pages ago this is not about, ahem, "morales"? It sure seems to me (and I'm sure a few others) like it is to you. Your personal sense of morality--based entirely on the single datapoint that there is an end-time printed on the FP--has seriously impaired your ability to reason on this subject.

I expect then you also use this same technique to ensure you are outside the turnstiles not one minute after park close, right? Because those that linger are wrong, no? After all, the park close is printed on all sorts of literature. Want to take a stab at that? It affects you becuase Iger has to pay CMs to hang around, right? And that translates into a $0.000001 increase in ticket costs, right? Ugh.

And with that, I have exhausted the last bit of patience I had with this thread.

 

[KellyNY]

It is only unfair if everyone does not have access to the same system, they do. Thank you, however, for proving my point.

That is all.

This is what you saw in my post? OK, continue deny any affect, it is all just principle, you did not affect me at all.
BTW, I was totally aware of loophole just like everybody on board and actually well before this board, so I did have access, I just did not abuse the system, stupid me...

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

It is only unfair if everyone does not have access to the same system, they do. Thank you, however, for proving my point.

That is all.

I agree with you generally that there was no morality issue with using them late – we were allowed -

But really that was an insider trick…not well known at all by the general park goer…and as such no one should be surprised that many if not most would find it to be unfair or scamming the system.

If I am honest I have to admit to myself that I always felt like I was somehow getting something over on other people when I used them late…I never understood why Disney didn’t just blatantly advertise the late use as being ok….

So when people complain about it I really don't blame them...I see their point.

 

[KellyNY]

I'm going to jump back in for this one final post.

Did you not say pages ago this is not about, ahem, "morales"? It sure seems to me (and I'm sure a few others) like it is to you. Your personal sense of morality--based entirely on the single datapoint that there is an end-time printed on the FP--has seriously impaired your ability to reason on this subject.

I expect then you also use this same technique to ensure you are outside the turnstiles not one minute after park close, right? Because those that linger are wrong, no? After all, the park close is printed on all sorts of literature. Want to take a stab at that? It affects you becuase Iger has to pay CMs to hang around, right? And that translates into a $0.000001 increase in ticket costs, right? Ugh.

And with that, I have exhausted the last bit of patience I had with this thread.

And I repeat again it is not about morals. Maybe we get "moral" differently, but there are many examples when I am not affected at least directly and still find action wrong but do not care about it. Example is to lie about your kid age to get him for free. affects me, not at all, wrong? yes.

In case with FPs it is wrong for somebody to take adventage of me because itaffects me, so it is practical issue here. If no affect existed it would be indeed just a moral issue and this is what you and others try to proove, so you could say then, it is simply none of your business what I do, am I right?

So, no matter how you try to flip it and how moral or not it is, the thing is you affect me, it is my business and I have all the rights to tell you that you are wrong.

 

[mom2rtk]

And I repeat again it is not about morals. Maybe we get "moral" differently, but there are many examples when I am not affected at least directly and still find action wrong but do not care about it. Example is to lie about your kid age to get him for free. affects me, not at all, wrong? yes.

In case with FPs it is wrong for somebody to take adventage of me because itaffects me, so it is practical issue here. If no affect existed it would be indeed just a moral issue and this is what you and others try to proove, so you could say then, it is simply none of your business what I do, am I right?

So, no matter how you try to flip it and how moral or not it is, the thing is you affect me, it is my business and I have all the rights to tell you that you are wrong.

I think you need to go look up the meaning of "moral". How something affects a 3rd party has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is moral or not. Something is either moral of immoral on its own face. It's NOT relative.

According to you then it would be immoral of someone with a Make-a-Wish child to be let into line ahead of you. It affects YOU, so it's immoral. Right?

 

[Wadecool]

it is my business and I have all the rights to tell you that you are wrong.

You have the right to voice your opinion, as do we all but that's all it is.

 

[recmouse]

Can we get to 100 pages?

 

[Wadecool]

Can we get to 100 pages?

Thats nothing! Can we get to 150 pages?

 

[KellyNY]

I think you need to go look up the meaning of "moral". How something affects a 3rd party has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is moral or not. Something is either moral of immoral on its own face. It's NOT relative.

According to you then it would be immoral of someone with a Make-a-Wish child to be let into line ahead of you. It affects YOU, so it's immoral. Right?

Yes and this is why I used example with 3yo child. Moral has nothing to do with me being affected and this is why I say FP issue is not about morals.
Btw, Make a Wish family or GAC family has nothing to do with all this discussion, lets not push limits here, we are talking about guests who just wants better experience, not those who have medical needs, and just in case you say how I know if late FPer does not have medical need, get GAC.

 

[shannonstar]

Okay, I am one of those people. I get FPs all day and then use them all at then end of my visit.

I am sure this annoys everyone who follows me around the park all day watching me intently to see my strategy. No doubt all my stalkers are dismayed by my lack of morals.

That being said, while I am sad that the FP enforcement is coming (only b/c I have to change my working strategy), I am sure it will not adversely affect my enjoyment of Disney. I will find another strategy that will work for me.

I humbly apologize if you ever felt like I cut you in line. I am sure you felt like I did when I had to let one Brazilian tour of 50 people in front of me b/c one of them was in front of me. Yes, I found it annoying, but it didn't destroy my Disney trip. I didn't write down the name of the company to call and complain. I also didn't yell at them or complain loudly near them. What would have been the point? They didn't see that they were doing anything wrong. So, like them, I plead ignorance of the fact that you were so bothered by my strategy. I am sure the wait time for my family of three destroyed all chances of you having a "magical" day.

 

[c.w.e.m.]

...I feel that the reason you and others will not accept any of our points is that you have chosen to make this about some type of morality in which we are cheats and scammers while you are upstanding and rightious. This is a trump card I cannot beat for no matter how good a case anyone makes you feel that we are cheating the system...

Well, I've certainly never come across anyone on this board who wasn't "upstanding & righteous", have you???

Also put our family down as members of the inconsiderate oafs!

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Well, I've certainly never come across anyone on this board who wasn't "upstanding & righteous", have you???

Also put our family down as members of the inconsiderate oafs!

The DIS...where the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

 

[NLD]

But you know that your late use ADVANTAGED you, so you don't really care.

Isn't that the bottom line?

LOL, well of course that's the point! The old rules allowed me to use late FP. I chose to use those rules to my advantage.

Why do people run to TSM first thing in the morning? Because they know the line will be shorter than middle of the day. Why do people visit Splash in the first hour of the park opening, and save Hall of Presidents for midday? Because it's the most efficient use of time.

I am pretty sure most people would prefer to maximize their time in the parks and tour in the most efficient way possible.

However, you seem to be saying that this is selfish or entitled or unfair behavior. That's where we'll disagree. Kelly had every opportunity I did to also use late FPs. So it was a perfectly even playing field.

If it is entitled, selfish, uncaring behavior to use FPs in the most efficient way possible, under rules that Disney allowed and were available for all guests to maxmize, then I stand convicted. I am a selfish, uncaring person who didn't bother herself about the fact that some people would choose not to use late FPs. I figured if they wanted to, they could.

All that said... in actuality the benefit of the late FP rules to me personally was always more about flexibility. I'd wager that in practice, hanging onto late FPs hurt me more than helped me, from the perspective of efficient touring. Why? Because I've only ever gone in the slow season, when FPs usually weren't necessary anyway... and hanging onto them for later sometimes meant I never even used the FP line at all--either because I never got back to the attraction, or because when I did go back, the standby line was short that FP wasn't necessary.

This happened to us numerous times last trip... got four FP for Star Tours, came back past the return window. Found a standby line with a 2-minute wait. (Posted 20 minutes.) We rode twice with our (late! oh the horrors!) FPs, then rode a third time standby. Our standby wait was equal to or shorter than our FP waits, there was simply no reason to use the FPs other than we had them in our fists. We actually would have benefited more using them earlier in the day, when the line was longer.

Then there was Jungle Cruise. We got FPs late morning, when the standby line was 40 minutes or so. The FP window was for middle of the day, during the height of the crowds. But we didn't use them then... we took an afternoon break and came back in the evening. When we went to Jungle Cruise, they had closed the FP line because it just wasn't needed. We got right onto the boat. Would have been more advantageous to us to use the FPs on time... but we didn't, so someone else benefited middday.

Or try Everest. I got two FPs just in case my dd was brave enough to ride. I knew we didn't have to make a particular window, so figured I'd hang onto them all afternoon until she decided if she wanted to try it. By the time she made her decision, it was nearly 5:00 pm and there was practically no standby line anyway. And in the end... she decided against riding anyway... so again both the standby and FP lines got to move 2-people faster than it would have if we'd shown up during our window.

Or there was the time in September, when we had Soarin' FPs that were past the window. We'd hung onto them for a final ride exiting the park. But when late afternoon came and we were ready to leave, we were so tired we didn't even want one last ride. So we handed them to people just entering the park, explaining that they were good the entire rest of the day. So grabbing three FPs early in the day, and hanging onto them for later, enabled folks who entered long after Soarin' FPs were gone to get on the ride with a minimal wait. Clearly I was trying to get something over on folks with that one, taking the time to let them know about the rules!

But you're right. Me using late FPs in January and September was horribly inconvenient to others. It was all about maximizing our time at the expense of others.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

If it is entitled, selfish, uncaring behavior to use FPs in the most efficient way possible, under rules that Disney allowed and were available for all guests to maxmize, then I stand convicted.

See...there it is again...just as a debate point... you really can't base your whole argument on this because the fact you could use them late was not advertised or promoted in any way by Disney.

It was an insider secret (indeed, the first one I shared with friends when they asked me for tips and tricks).

I think the best that can be said was you (and me) were technically within the rules.

 

[dvcdisney]

I'm sorry, but I haven't read all 100 pages. But I did want to know how using your fp late significantly affects the others.

For instance, if my fp window says 2-3pm and I go in the fp line at 2:30pm, that's okay, correct? Now what if, for some reason, I decide that I want to ride the attraction at 6pm and just allow the guests behind me to go ahead of me. Is this a problem? Am I affecting someone else other than letting them go in front of me - which in my books is not hurting anyone, but actually letting someone experience the ride sooner than they normally would.

So I just don't see a significant difference between allowing people to physically go in front of me and not showing up after all those people who have a time window before 6pm.

Just wondering.

 

[NLD]

See...there it is again...just as a debate point... you really can't base your whole argument on this because the fact you could use them late was not advertised or promoted in any way by Disney.

It was an insider secret (indeed, the first one I shared with friends when they asked me for tips and tricks).

I think the best that can be said was you were technically within the rules.

Really?

By that logic, any efficient touring strategy is not fair if it's not advertised or promoted by Disney?

So all the people who get to DHS now for the unadvertised 8:30 opening (on a day the park says it opens at 9:00 am), are somehow morally questionable, right? Because it's not fair to do that, and be riding TSM at 8:40 a.m., when there are a whole bunch of people who don't know the park actually opened earlier than the printed time.

And all the people who run to Soarin' first thing, to take advantage of lower waits in the morning, are morally questionable because hey first-timers don't necessarily know that the best use of time is to do Soarin' first! Those poor folks who see SE and do it immediately, just because it's the Epcot icon and the first thing they come to, are being taken advantage of. Afterall, Disney doesn't say anywhere that Soarin' is the super-headliner and it makes more sense to go there first, to minimize wait time.

Heck even rope drop itself is questionable. People who go to rope drop for the express purpose of maximizing their touring time are morally questionable, because it's not fair to other guests who don't know how important rope drop is. Because you know, Disney doesn't advertsise how much more can get done in the first hour of park opening.

Reading back over this it might sound more harsh than intended. It is meant with a gentle tone...

But I have to say it because this idea that "if Disney doesn't advertise it, it's unfair to make the best use of it" just holds no water.

There are a LOT of things Disney doesn't advertise. There are a LOT of touring strategies that others might not know about.

Perhaps the moral thing to do is disregard all touring strategies completely, because some people might not be aware of them, or might not choose to use them?

 

[MELSMICE]

No, we know that we were only doing what we were allowed to do.

Exactly, I never thought twice about using FP's past the window, specifically after being told by many CM's that I could.

I believe I am the founder!

So, what are the requirements to join. I'm sure I meet most, if not all, of them.

The thing about this thread, late FPers deny this affect or pretend it is not that great, to justify themselves, they are perfectly aware that this was just a loophole, plenty of evidences to that, yet cry that now their experience affected. So in other words they cry about not being able to take advantage of us no matter how small or big this advantage is and expect us show compassion. Realy?

As for why time window is on the FP, simple, this is when you have to return. Anything else is pure speculation based on urban legents that someone said something at some point. Just think about it this way, if it was intended for people return any time, it would put on official FP and if it happen, FP line would be simply unorgonized, you would not be able to know when people decide to show and create another line, FP line, and it would simply zero FP purpose, so you can see only scheduled FP can really work.

I never viewed it as a loophole. I think of a taking advantage of doing something dishonest and sneaky. There is nothing sneaky about using FP's past their time. It was/still is allowed!

There have been numerous posters who have posted the fact that they have been told by CM's, myself included, that they can use FP's past their window. Why would you call it urban legend. It's a fact, not a legend.

I have waited in standby lines for certain attractions & have seen people go by me with FP. It never occurred to me that if they had a late FP they were taking advantage of my in the SB line. My thought was always, "Darn, I wish I would have been able to get a FP."

Honestly, I think the reason some posters are so angry with people that used FP after the window is because they didn't know about it before so they couldn't take advantage. Why all the hate?

Having to use a FP within the window certainly is not going to ruin my WDW trips.....it will just change them.

 

[WillAustin]

Heck even rope drop itself is questionable. People who go to rope drop for the express purpose of maximizing their touring time are morally questionable, because it's not fair to other guests who don't know how important rope drop is. Because you know, Disney doesn't advertsise how much more can get done in the first hour of park opening.

As absurd as that sounds, I've seen posts complaining that FPs run out too early for the people that choose to sleep in.

Our next trip I'm going to test a new strategy. If we get our FPs like we normally do, and then trade ours close to the return time with those people getting a later window, I think we can still end up with 5 or 6 sets of FPs to use at the end of the day.

 

[nytimez]

Our next trip I'm going to test a new strategy. If we get our FPs like we normally do, and then trade ours close to the return time with those people getting a later window, I think we can still end up with 5 or 6 sets of FPs to use at the end of the day.

Hmmm... sounds shady to me. Shame on you!

 

[NLD]

As absurd as that sounds, I've seen posts complaining that FPs run out too early for the people that choose to sleep in.

Our next trip I'm going to test a new strategy. If we get our FPs like we normally do, and then trade owith lose to the return time with those people getting a later window, I think we can still end up with 5 or 6 sets of FPs to use at the end of the day.

Oh heavens.

Well then perhaps I should state immediately that I'm not a rope-dropper... haven't made a single one.

Re: your strategy of trading with others... would be interested to hear how that works for you. It's not something we're likely to do, because the benefit of late FP to us was always about not having to watch the clock. It wasn't really about wanting to do all the headliners in the evening. But for folks who specifically used late FP for the purpose of evening riding, you might have a nice strategy there!