Fast Pass return times

[CandleontheWater]

Here is my take on why there is an ending time on the FP window...

I have a masters degree in Anthropology. I chose the career path of Cultural Resource Management (archaeology), but I could have easily (as many of my friends) chosen to go work for a large corporation. Many large corporations employ individuals with an anthropology background to help develop products and policies that are "human friendly". You probably don't know this but it was an anthropologist that decided to make the "copy" buttons on early Xerox machines green. Green automatically equals "go" in people's heads, and the idea behind it was that it would be easier for people who don't know how to use the machine to figure it out.

All that being said, it makes really good sense from an anthropological aka "human friendly" standpoint to put an end time on the Fastpasses. Humans really love order, and individuals from western culture (which is the majority of park guests) understand and work well within the confines of an appointment. Putting a start and end point on the slip of paper gives people parameters to work within, and humans in general like working towards a goal. Also (and this is a really big reason), if there is an end point printed, it will eliminate the need for guests tying up staff resources asking about when they should return.

The truth is that park guests (taken a a whole) can't handle the pressure and responsibility of being given an open ended window. It is much less confusing to be given a time range than "come back anytime after 10 am". If you printed that on a Fastpass there would be lots of people who wouldn't understand, who would ask CM what time to come back, and it would have a greater probability for confusion and frustration.

Before everyone gets up in arms, think about some of the guests you have encountered in the parks, the one's that can't read a park map, the ones who don't understand what time the 3:00 parade is, the ones who can't figure out how to order CS food. We've all run into them. When people go on vacation, they mentally check out, which is why when you are developing guest policies you need to make things as simplistic as humanly possible.

Another thing to take into consideration would be language barriers, it is much easier to understand 10am- 11am than "please return anytime after 10am. Numerals are universal in most western languages (which is where the majority of guests are from).

Even if Disney's intent was to allow FPs to be used anytime, there are very compelling reasons to put on an end time, you want to make all policies as simple and easy to execute as possible. From there you can do things like yell through a megaphone that they are good all day, the savvy will pick up on it, but the simplest message is still there ( 11 am -12am) which is necessary for those guests that check out when they walk through the gates.

 

[mesaboy2]

Actually, your little timeline is spot on. That is exactly how it got to where it was. Yes, they allowed to happen. Yes, people were maybe taking advantage of a kink in the rule to be supportive of problems that arise in the course of the visit and Yes, because it was allowed by Disney then No harm, no foul. I cannot speak for others but I have never thought that those that used them after the window were doing anything wrong. Disney allowed it to happen, they could have controlled it but they didn't. One would have to be a fool to not take advantage of it. I know I took advantage of it!

But, now we get to the situation at hand. For whatever reason, Disney decided that they had to enforce the time window. Look at all the rebellion and jockeying and feeble attempts to justify the anger generated over something that was never a "given" to begin with. It was kind of a gift. Did I find it easier to go back whenever I wanted? I sure did. Am I angry now that I can't? Not at all...I have just regrouped, decided that the sky is not falling, I still have access to as many FP's as I ever had...I just have to think it out a little more.

Coming from a place that almost fully requires you to know what you will be in the mood to eat six months from now...this seems like a pretty minor thing. So, at least for myself...I am not judging anyone based on whether or not they used FP's late, my concern is those that can't let go. It required a little thought and planning...not the end of the world.

I agree with you on just about everything. I guess I'm not seeing the anger you refer to. OP posted a poll with "Don't like it", and that of course got my vote. That doesn't mean angry--it means I don't like it. Disney is just a little harder now that the flexibility was removed. I think I summed it up with one word earlier: "Bummer".

ETA: I believe these conversations would be much shorter if we communicated in person. So much inflection, volume, body language, facial expressions to read in addition to mere words. So much of these discussions are born from the lack of other cues--we have to rely on a limited set of smilies to do this for us.

 

[Robo]

Here is my take on why there is an ending time on the FP window...

I have a masters degree in Anthropology.

What do ants have to do with anything?

Do ants use FP?





And, what about uncles?

 

[goofyernmost]

I agree with you on just about everything. I guess I'm not seeing the anger you refer to. OP posted a poll with "Don't like it", and that of course got my vote. That doesn't mean angry--it means I don't like it. Disney is just a little harder now that the flexibility was removed. I think I summed it up with one word earlier: "Bummer".

ETA: I believe these conversations would be much shorter if we communicated in person. So much inflection, volume, body language, facial expressions to read in addition to mere words. So much of these discussions are born from the lack of other cues--we have to rely on a limited set of smilies to do this for us.

The original OP post was not filled with anger, nor were the intent of the posted answers....but it is hard to not see what it has generated since the first post.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Here is my take on why there is an ending time on the FP window...

I have a masters degree in Anthropology. I chose the career path of Cultural Resource Management (archaeology), but I could have easily (as many of my friends) chosen to go work for a large corporation. Many large corporations employ individuals with an anthropology background to help develop products and policies that are "human friendly". You probably don't know this but it was an anthropologist that decided to make the "copy" buttons on early Xerox machines green. Green automatically equals "go" in people's heads, and the idea behind it was that it would be easier for people who don't know how to use the machine to figure it out.

All that being said, it makes really good sense from an anthropological aka "human friendly" standpoint to put an end time on the Fastpasses. Humans really love order, and individuals from western culture (which is the majority of park guests) understand and work well within the confines of an appointment. Putting a start and end point on the slip of paper gives people parameters to work within, and humans in general like working towards a goal. Also (and this is a really big reason), if there is an end point printed, it will eliminate the need for guests tying up staff resources asking about when they should return.

The truth is that park guests (taken a a whole) can't handle the pressure and responsibility of being given an open ended window. It is much less confusing to be given a time range than "come back anytime after 10 am". If you printed that on a Fastpass there would be lots of people who wouldn't understand, who would ask CM what time to come back, and it would have a greater probability for confusion and frustration.

Before everyone gets up in arms, think about some of the guests you have encountered in the parks, the one's that can't read a park map, the ones who don't understand what time the 3:00 parade is, the ones who can't figure out how to order CS food. We've all run into them. When people go on vacation, they mentally check out, which is why when you are developing guest policies you need to make things as simplistic as humanly possible.

Another thing to take into consideration would be language barriers, it is much easier to understand 10am- 11am than "please return anytime after 10am. Numerals are universal in most western languages (which is where the majority of guests are from).

Even if Disney's intent was to allow FPs to be used anytime, there are very compelling reasons to put on an end time, you want to make all policies as simple and easy to execute as possible. From there you can do things like yell through a megaphone that they are good all day, the savvy will pick up on it, but the simplest message is still there ( 11 am -12am) which is necessary for those guests that check out when they walk through the gates.

Thanks, very informative. There are plenty that will disagree with you I think. Many don't like to think they are being manipulated.

Now in order for us to consider your post credible we will need you to post a copy of your degree & two written references.

 

[KellyNY]

Here is my take on why there is an ending time on the FP window...

I have a masters degree in Anthropology. I chose the career path of Cultural Resource Management (archaeology), but I could have easily (as many of my friends) chosen to go work for a large corporation. Many large corporations employ individuals with an anthropology background to help develop products and policies that are "human friendly". You probably don't know this but it was an anthropologist that decided to make the "copy" buttons on early Xerox machines green. Green automatically equals "go" in people's heads, and the idea behind it was that it would be easier for people who don't know how to use the machine to figure it out.

All that being said, it makes really good sense from an anthropological aka "human friendly" standpoint to put an end time on the Fastpasses. Humans really love order, and individuals from western culture (which is the majority of park guests) understand and work well within the confines of an appointment. Putting a start and end point on the slip of paper gives people parameters to work within, and humans in general like working towards a goal. Also (and this is a really big reason), if there is an end point printed, it will eliminate the need for guests tying up staff resources asking about when they should return.

The truth is that park guests (taken a a whole) can't handle the pressure and responsibility of being given an open ended window. It is much less confusing to be given a time range than "come back anytime after 10 am". If you printed that on a Fastpass there would be lots of people who wouldn't understand, who would ask CM what time to come back, and it would have a greater probability for confusion and frustration.

Before everyone gets up in arms, think about some of the guests you have encountered in the parks, the one's that can't read a park map, the ones who don't understand what time the 3:00 parade is, the ones who can't figure out how to order CS food. We've all run into them. When people go on vacation, they mentally check out, which is why when you are developing guest policies you need to make things as simplistic as humanly possible.

Another thing to take into consideration would be language barriers, it is much easier to understand 10am- 11am than "please return anytime after 10am. Numerals are universal in most western languages (which is where the majority of guests are from).

Even if Disney's intent was to allow FPs to be used anytime, there are very compelling reasons to put on an end time, you want to make all policies as simple and easy to execute as possible. From there you can do things like yell through a megaphone that they are good all day, the savvy will pick up on it, but the simplest message is still there ( 11 am -12am) which is necessary for those guests that check out when they walk through the gates.

Very interesting, except, how come Universal Front of the Line Access or whatever it is called works and nobody is confused?

No, really? Does it mean that level of intelligence of Universal visitors is much higher then of Disney visitors?

Or somehow, someone who came out with idea that people will not get it, just thinks too much of himself and gives not much credit to others?(just to be clear, I am not talking about OP). Sure some will be confused and will ask questions but not to the point that we all will just stand there with a blank expression like a sheep.

 

[CandleontheWater]

Thanks, very informative. There are plenty that will disagree with you I think. Many don't like to think they are being manipulated.

Now in order for us to consider your post credible we will need you to post a copy of your degree & two written references.

I don't know if I'd call it manipulative, I think "intuitive guest management" sounds much better.

 

[mesaboy2]

The original OP post was not filled with anger, nor were the intent of the posted answers....but it is hard to not see what it has generated since the first post.

I honestly think most of that passion comes not from a discussion of the relatively droll topic, but when words such as "sheep" or "judgmental" or expressions such as "I followed the rules" start appearing in the discussion. I know that's where I start getting ornery. I'm trying to follow the Vulcan way, especially lately.

 

[CandleontheWater]

Very interesting, except, how come Universal Front of the Line Access or whatever it is called works and nobody is confused?

No, really? Does it mean that level of intelligence of Universal visitors is much higher then of Disney visitors?

Or somehow, someone who came out with idea that people will not get it, just thinks too much of himself and gives not much credit to others?(just to be clear, I am not talking about OP). Sure some will be confused and will ask questions but not to the point that we all will just stand there with a blank expression like a sheep.

The reason why Universals FOTL access could work this way is because it is a much smaller segment of the population. They were not working a policy to deal with huge numbers of people. When you are working with a smaller group, you don't have to take as many variables into consideration. If you think about it, even the total number of Universal guests is smaller than the numbers of people that visit the Disney parks. They are on entirely different leagues, and therefore will have to work around different problems.

I'm certainly not saying that you, or anyone else on this board would stand there with a blank expression, just that there would be enough people for it to potentially be an issue.

Disney wanted to develop FP for all, therefore it needed to be as user friendly to understand and implement as possible, hence the reason for an easy to explain "window".

As a side note, I don't doubt for a minute that there are individuals with FOTL access who don't understand how to use it, or how it exactly works, or even manage to use it to its fullest. I'm sure there are plenty of confused people, just less of them. I'll go out on a limb and say that there are people who get their FOTL badges from the hotel upon check in and never bring them into the parks.

 

[mesaboy2]

Very interesting, except, how come Universal Front of the Line Access or whatever it is called works and nobody is confused?

There are no time constraints on Universal Express. Universal can do this due to the relatively small number of guests in the park with the privilege. WDW would melt if the same model was applied to FastPass, which is available to all.

I have a feeling my answer will not satisfy you, but it is my only one. Adieu, mon ami!

 

[DisneyMomma81]

Here is my take on why there is an ending time on the FP window...

I have a masters degree in Anthropology....

OT ~ Interesting, I heard on Monday that Antropology was one of the hardest to get a job in your field/high unemployment degrees. It was a George Washington University study.

Here's the whole thing.

FP ~ bummer, we took advantage of late FP acceptance when we visited WDW *10/09* we always do when we visit DLR and so far nothing's changed there

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I'm trying to follow the Vulcan way, especially lately.

So therefore, once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

 

[CandleontheWater]

OT ~ Interesting, I heard on Monday that Antropology was one of the hardest to get a job in your field/high unemployment degrees. It was a George Washington University study.

Here's the whole thing.

FP ~ bummer, we took advantage of late FP acceptance when we visited WDW *10/09* we always do when we visit DLR and so far nothing's changed there

I agree with you! If you get an undergrad degree in anthropology, you're pretty much flipping burgers. If you go on to the Masters or PhD level, you're much better off. There are accelerated 6 year programs that combine an undergrad in anthropology and an MBA, those are probably your best bet!

And just think, you could go work for Disney and help them with the development of Xpass! Then when arguments come about about Disney's intent with the implementation of XPass, you could really set us straight!

 

[Reddog1134]

Exactly how it is not valid? I suppose not to care about extra time someone made me wait just because someone else, not me, benefitted from shorter line 5hours ago? I suppose not to be upset because my line turned from 20 into 40 min because it stopped on me on Soarin and now I have to rush to my ADR. Seems very logical.

Because your argument implies that the line is ALWAYS longer when you are at the park and ALWAYS shorter when you are not. If that happened to me, I wouldn't think to blame FP users. I would think "maybe I'm going at the wrong time".

 

[KellyNY]

The reason why Universals FOTL access could work this way is because it is a much smaller segment of the population. They were not working a policy to deal with huge numbers of people. When you are working with a smaller group, you don't have to take as many variables into consideration. If you think about it, even the total number of Universal guests is smaller than the numbers of people that visit the Disney parks. They are on entirely different leagues, and therefore will have to work around different problems.

I'm certainly not saying that you, or anyone else on this board would stand there with a blank expression, just that there would be enough people for it to potentially be an issue.

Disney wanted to develop FP for all, therefore it needed to be as user friendly to understand and implement as possible, hence the reason for an easy to explain "window".

As a side note, I don't doubt for a minute that there are individuals with FOTL access who don't understand how to use it, or how it exactly works, or even manage to use it to its fullest. I'm sure there are plenty of confused people, just less of them. I'll go out on a limb and say that there are people who get their FOTL badges from the hotel upon check in and never bring them into the parks.

I think there will always be % of confused users no matter what system we have but Universal is a proove that even with this %, system works perfectly well. While there are less visitors, there are less rides and proportion probably same.
All I try to say that this theory does not hold the truth in my opinion and Universal is my proove.
Moreover, this theory did not even come from Disney. It came from Phone game, supposably someone had some conversation with someone from Disney at some point in the kitchen with a glass of wine. Therefore, I cannot possibly take it as reliable, reasonable or valid explanation, even so as a theory it is interesting, offensive, but interesting.

 

[mjp12831]

I've thoroughly enjoyed the Reddog/Kelly Who's on First routine and also now consider myself smarter for reading the post from the anthropologist.

In addition, Mesaboy kindly pointed out that Robo is on the verge of 60,000 posts and gave an accurate timeline history of the FP as we know it.

Finally, I've gotten to vent more on this change that is depressing from my perspective, and taking something off of your chest always makes you feel better.

 

[KellyNY]

Because your argument implies that the line is ALWAYS longer when you are at the park and ALWAYS shorter when you are not. If that happened to me, I wouldn't think to blame FP users. I would think "maybe I'm going at the wrong time".

I really hope you just try to pull my leg here. OK, it was funny, hope you had fun twisting it this way. In case if you actually serious, that I really doubt since I do not think anyone can misunderstand that much, read again. Thanks for fun.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Here is my take on why there is an ending time on the FP window...

I have a masters degree in Anthropology. I chose the career path of Cultural Resource Management (archaeology), but I could have easily (as many of my friends) chosen to go work for a large corporation. Many large corporations employ individuals with an anthropology background to help develop products and policies that are "human friendly". You probably don't know this but it was an anthropologist that decided to make the "copy" buttons on early Xerox machines green. Green automatically equals "go" in people's heads, and the idea behind it was that it would be easier for people who don't know how to use the machine to figure it out.

All that being said, it makes really good sense from an anthropological aka "human friendly" standpoint to put an end time on the Fastpasses. Humans really love order, and individuals from western culture (which is the majority of park guests) understand and work well within the confines of an appointment. Putting a start and end point on the slip of paper gives people parameters to work within, and humans in general like working towards a goal. Also (and this is a really big reason), if there is an end point printed, it will eliminate the need for guests tying up staff resources asking about when they should return.

The truth is that park guests (taken a a whole) can't handle the pressure and responsibility of being given an open ended window. It is much less confusing to be given a time range than "come back anytime after 10 am". If you printed that on a Fastpass there would be lots of people who wouldn't understand, who would ask CM what time to come back, and it would have a greater probability for confusion and frustration.

Before everyone gets up in arms, think about some of the guests you have encountered in the parks, the one's that can't read a park map, the ones who don't understand what time the 3:00 parade is, the ones who can't figure out how to order CS food. We've all run into them. When people go on vacation, they mentally check out, which is why when you are developing guest policies you need to make things as simplistic as humanly possible.

Another thing to take into consideration would be language barriers, it is much easier to understand 10am- 11am than "please return anytime after 10am. Numerals are universal in most western languages (which is where the majority of guests are from).

Even if Disney's intent was to allow FPs to be used anytime, there are very compelling reasons to put on an end time, you want to make all policies as simple and easy to execute as possible. From there you can do things like yell through a megaphone that they are good all day, the savvy will pick up on it, but the simplest message is still there ( 11 am -12am) which is necessary for those guests that check out when they walk through the gates.

Interesting theory. Just more added conjecture. It misses the obvious, logical question of why didnt Disney just print the closing time of the park on the FP. Such as 11am - 9pm as the return window. That solves the same false dilemma that you are creating.

Or maybe as others have proposed that when Disney started the FP system, it was easier and more guest friendly to make exceptions and let people use a FP past its window. And now they need to enforce the return window because they are testing and preparing for the NexGen/Xpass.

For me, the latter explanation seems more plausible than the former

 

[MrRob]

To be honest I'm totally baffled as how fast passes can generate pages and pages of debate.

Fast passes are, inherently in their design, a tool used to redistribute guests so that lines for rides are more manageable. For that to work properly you need to specify how the redistribution is spread out.

Statistically, in an ideal world each ticket would have one specific time and they would all be spread out throughout the day, but obviously that doesn't create a very pleasant experience.

So what do you do? You pad it out by making it a time window instead of a specific time and you do it in batches instead of single tickets so that families can ride together. You do NOT however make that padded window "From X o'clock until whenever the park closes". That defeats the entire purpose of a fast pass.

I think the common misconception is the assumption that fast passes were founded on the intention of giving guests a way to skip the line when in fact that's a perk that naturally occurs from the actual purpose, which is to subtly tell people when to ride certain rides and spread everyone out. So working off that misconception, they think the "X o'clock to close" rule makes sense since it fulfills the false foundation or they think they're entitled to it because they assume that's the point of the fast pass.

Of course Disney is known for bending over backwards to try and make a guests experience better, so it's entirely logical to conclude that this "unofficial rule" sprang up from cast members making exceptions and word spreading.

Now they're tightening down on the exceptions, most likely because it was getting to the point where it was negating the point of fast passes. That or like someone else suggested, they need more strict data so that they can properly plan this new X-Pass idea.

In any case there is a legit reason behind it. Disneys whole business model is to treat guests as well as they reasonably can in order to acquire a customer for life, so they really wouldn't clamp down on this rule just to piss off people.

As for judging people who took advantage of the lax rules, or calling people who didn't jealous, that's just silly. Some people do what they can get away with and others don't. Neither is universally right or wrong. It's subjective.

It's also reasonable to be a little bummed if the rules are being locked down now. If you have a nice thing and it goes away, you're going to be bummed. It's natural. However it's unreasonable to be flat out angry or to feel entitled to the lax rules just because they used to exist. The rules are up to Disney to decide and as consumers our "say in it" is simply through giving them money or withholding and not going.

Anyway, just my extended two cents.

 

[mjp12831]

In any case there is a legit reason behind it. Disneys whole business model is to treat guests as well as they reasonably can in order to acquire a customer for life, so they really wouldn't clamp down on this rule just to piss off people.

Disney's business model is to make money. If making money pisses people off, that's obviously not going to get in the way.

This is the thing that bothers me so much about them changing it. There's rumor of next gen, but nothing concrete. Shouldn't a company have a transition plan or an explanation of why a change is being made (ie. this needs to happen because... or this will improve things because...). They obviously had a segment of loyal customers who liked the idea of the open window, and they eliminated it without announcing the progression of how this will improve anything.

If they gave me something concrete, I'd be much more understanding. Concrete is not "we did this because something better is coming" - that's too open ended for me to accept.

So we're just left to debate what next gen might be while wondering if our trip this year will be as enjoyable as ones in the past.

Bad form