Fast Pass return times

[UNCFanatik]

This is true



Agreed that one time exceptions are made all the time in life and that they don't necessarily imply a new definition of acceptable practice.

However, late returns were not one time exceptions - I may have used over 100 late FP in my life and was not once told by the CM who took them that I shouldn't/couldn't. Because they were widely accepted late without exception, it therefore defined what was acceptable.

Again, Disney made exceptions to a rule. If they wanted EVERYONE to use late FPs then they would have changed the rule. But Disney didnt do this. They didnt widely publicize the exception when they most certainly could have as they are right now with enforcement. Disney deemed it acceptable for the amount of people who were using late FPs but by action didnt deem it as an acceptable practice for all park guests.

This is wrong - there are a zillion threads out there that illustrate how late usage has no impact on wait time. I have a post earlier in this thread that does this as well, so I won't waste space detailing it again.

Those threads are based on mathematical theory that looks at AVERAGES it does not discount the individual guests who are negatively affected by wait times because a "burst" of people decided to use FPs late.

 

[UNCFanatik]

I would explain the mathematical theory behind FP to you, but I'm not going to waste my breath since you seem to willfully disregard any idea that does not originate with you.

Also, because I hate to see my discipline maligned, I would like to point out that theory is not invented by members of this board. Every intellectual discipline is based on a solid foundation of theoretical constructs. It is theory that helps us explain and understand new discoveries and ideas.

Yes, but your FP theory was just as much conjecture no matter how hard you try to justify and legitimize it. It is telling though that you refuse to address questions that people have about your theory.

 

[Reddog1134]

Again, Disney made exceptions to a rule. If they wanted EVERYONE to use late FPs then they would have changed the rule. But Disney didnt do this. They didnt widely publicize the exception when they most certainly could have as they are right now with enforcement. Disney deemed it acceptable for the amount of people who were using late FPs but by action didnt deem it as an acceptable practice for all park guests.

This is basically what I've always said. Also, by keeping the rule there, they always had the option to enforce it.

 

[KellyNY]

I would explain the mathematical theory behind FP to you, but I'm not going to waste my breath or my intellect since you seem to willfully disregard any idea that does not originate with you.

Also, because I hate to see my discipline maligned, I would like to point out that theory is not invented by members of this board. Every intellectual discipline is based on a solid foundation of theoretical constructs. It is theory that helps us explain and understand new discoveries and ideas.

Wait, you mean you actually can show me math theory that will show me that time was frozen? If there is one, I am open, show it to me. I did not see theory like that yet, maybe you will change my mind. Why did not you do it 2 months ago, not the first time we discuss this topic, you know you could have me on your side all this time.

Warning, I do not accept time frozen theories from Star Trek. Btw, you do know that many from your front admit individual affect, kind of difficult to deny obvious. Just letting you know, I am not the only one who sees it.

So, if you have point, go ahead, make it. Otherwise, forgive me for not wasting my time on reading all those splashes, which have nothing behind big words.

 

[KellyNY]

Yes, but your FP theory was just as much conjecture no matter how hard you try to justify and legitimize it
. It is telling though that you refuse to addresses questions that people have about your theory.

Exactly!

 

[mjp12831]

Again, Disney made exceptions to a rule. If they wanted EVERYONE to use late FPs then they would have changed the rule. But Disney didnt do this. They didnt widely publicize the exception when they most certainly could have as they are right now with enforcement. Disney deemed it acceptable for the amount of people who were using late FPs but by action didnt deem it as an acceptable practice for all park guests.



Those threads are based on mathematical theory that looks at AVERAGES it does not discount the individual guests who are negatively affected by wait times because a "burst" of people decided to use FPs late.

I believe you are wrong on your "late FP use affected me" argument, but I can accept that - we disagree.

I can't accept that you think that allowing late use was not WDW policy - frankly continuing to argue that undermines your credibility on the other point.

 

[mjp12831]

Those threads are based on mathematical theory that looks at AVERAGES it does not discount the individual guests who are negatively affected by wait times because a "burst" of people decided to use FPs late.

Your one legitimate point I concede is that in a moment in time a single SB rider might wait longer than they thought they would because of this so called "burst" of people.

However, in relying on this to prove your point you continue to disregard any benefit you ever received while waiting in the another SB line when these same "bursts" of late users did not return within their window at the time you were waiting in SB.

For every elongated wait you received you likely also received a benefit at another time - while this is not a minute for minute trade, it's going to come out in the wash over the course of a day.

 

[wolf29]

I don't see what the big deal is. You know when you approach the fastpass machine exactly what time you will be getting. If that doesn't work for you, then don't get FPs. 1 hour leeway seems totally reasonable to me, so I'm all for it.

 

[mcd2745]

Your one legitimate point I concede is that in a moment in time a single SB rider might wait longer than they thought they would because of this so called "burst" of people.

However, in relying on this to prove your point you continue to disregard any benefit you ever received while waiting in the another SB line when these same "bursts" of late users did not return within their window at the time you were waiting in SB.

For every elongated wait you received you likely also received a benefit at another time - while this is not a minute for minute trade, it's going to come out in the wash over the course of a day.

Personally, I realy feel this whole FP enforcement thing is "much ado about nothing". I didn't have a problem with the non-enforcement and I don't have a problem with the enforcement.

However, what I don't get is how people can think that is okay that Guest X is negatively impacted even minimally (which, at least to your credit, you admit happens - many won't even admit to that), because earlier in the day Guest Y benefited. How is that a valid justification? I agree that in totality, at the end of the day, it is pretty much a zero sum game. But I don't think Guest X really gives a rat's you-know-what about any of that - nor should he.

 

[DisneyFive]

I wonder what percentage of people who voted "like it" knew about being able to use FP's after the time window during their WDW trips?

Dan

 

[UNCFanatik]

I believe you are wrong on your "late FP use affected me" argument, but I can accept that - we disagree.

I can't accept that you think that allowing late use was not WDW policy - frankly continuing to argue that undermines your credibility on the other point.

I said Disney made exceptions to their rule but never changed the rule. The rule has never changed. The enforcement is what has changed. Again, if Disney wanted to change the rule they would have done so. But why didnt they? Why didnt they WIDELY advertise and publicize through park literature and signage that you could use FPs late? Because they didnt want that to become the official policy.

Your one legitimate point I concede is that in a moment in time a single SB rider might wait longer than they thought they would because of this so called "burst" of people.

However, in relying on this to prove your point you continue to disregard any benefit you ever received while waiting in the another SB line when these same "bursts" of late users did not return within their window at the time you were waiting in SB.

For every elongated wait you received you likely also received a benefit at another time - while this is not a minute for minute trade, it's going to come out in the wash over the course of a day.

yes, it may balance out as a whole but may not on an individual level. the net waiting time for a guest on a given day may increase because of late FP usage. While another guest may experience a net decrease in wait time because of late FP usage.

Your contention that late FP usage had zero negative effect on other guests is just flat out wrong.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Your one legitimate point I concede is that in a moment in time a single SB rider might wait longer than they thought they would because of this so called "burst" of people.

However, in relying on this to prove your point you continue to disregard any benefit you ever received while waiting in the another SB line when these same "bursts" of late users did not return within their window at the time you were waiting in SB.

For every elongated wait you received you likely also received a benefit at another time - while this is not a minute for minute trade, it's going to come out in the wash over the course of a day.

Perhaps these are the unluckiest people in the world and no matter which line they get in a surge of late FPer's jump in front of them.

For perspective, if 100 people jump in front of you on Space Mountain it only adds about 2:45 to your wait when it is running at capacity. That is like a stop light at a busy intersection (which, by perception, takes FOREVER to change).

I don't see what the big deal is. You know when you approach the fastpass machine exactly what time you will be getting. If that doesn't work for you, then don't get FPs. 1 hour leeway seems totally reasonable to me, so I'm all for it.

Certainly that is now how we will operate, in the past it was unnecessary.

The debate over the past operation of FP is really a moot point. What is more to the point is how current and future operation will affect our ability to tour as efficiently as possible within the parameters of our visit.

 

[mjp12831]

Personally, I realy feel this whole FP enforcement thing is "much ado about nothing". I didn't have a problem with the non-enforcement and I don't have a problem with the enforcement.

However, what I don't get is how people can think that is okay that Guest X is negatively impacted even minimally (which, at least to your credit, you admit happens - many won't even admit to that), because earlier in the day Guest Y benefited. How is that a valid justification? I agree that in totality, at the end of the day, it is pretty much a zero sum game. But I don't think Guest X really gives a rat's you-know-what about any of that - nor should he.

Because guest x and guest y are the same person.

x/y gets in the SB line for TSM at 10am. My family of 5 have TSM fp with a window of 10am - 11am, but don't return within that window. Guest x/y benefits.

later in that same day, Guest x/y gets in the SB line for RnR at 4pm. We had RnR fp for 1pm - 2pm but we show up late at RnR at 4:01 and walk by x/y. x/y may be inconvenienced at that moment in time. I say may because...

however just as we returned late, it is likely and possible that another party of 5 with an actual 4pm - 5pm window decides to dine at the Brown Derby during that time and returns to RnR after dinner - at 6:30pm. Now x/y benefits again and the inconvenience mentioned above is negated.

 

[KellyNY]

Personally, I realy feel this whole FP enforcement thing is "much ado about nothing". I didn't have a problem with the non-enforcement and I don't have a problem with the enforcement.

However, what I don't get is how people can think that is okay that Guest X is negatively impacted even minimally (which, at least to your credit, you admit happens - many won't even admit to that), because earlier in the day Guest Y benefited. How is that a valid justification? I agree that in totality, at the end of the day, it is pretty much a zero sum game. But I don't think Guest X really gives a rat's you-know-what about any of that - nor should he.

Exactly.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I guess I always had a different perspective, when I chose the standby line I never was concerned or bothered by the fact that someone may be using a late FP. I guess since it was an accepted practice it never really thought about it.

 

[mjp12831]

yes, it may balance out as a whole but may not on an individual level. the net waiting time for a guest on a given day may increase because of late FP usage. While another guest may experience a net decrease in wait time because of late FP usage.

Your contention that late FP usage had zero negative effect on other guests is just flat out wrong.

If it impacts a guest on an individual level it's a negligible amount of time.

As I pointed out above, it's just as likely to benefit you as it is to impact you negatively, and over the course of a day and certainly a trip it will neither be a benefit or a detriment.

Further, you'll now waste more than that amount of park time criss crossing the park to make a FP time and hanging out in a park area because you don't have time to walk to another area of the park and get back for your window.

 

[KellyNY]

Because guest x and guest y are the same person.

x/y gets in the SB line for TSM at 10am. My family of 5 have TSM fp with a window of 10am - 11am, but don't return within that window. Guest x/y benefits.

later in that same day, Guest x/y gets in the SB line for RnR at 4pm. We had RnR fp for 1pm - 2pm but we show up late at RnR at 4:01 and walk by x/y. x/y may be inconvenienced at that moment in time. I say may because...

however just as we returned late, it is likely and possible that another party of 5 with an actual 4pm - 5pm window decides to dine at the Brown Derby during that time and returns to RnR after dinner - at 6:30pm. Now x/y benefits again and the inconvenience mentioned above is negated.

Omg, so I guess, I am mistaken when I think I'm sleeping in my room at 11 am, I actually benefit somehow from your no show at this point, I'm infact in line... Thank you for explaining this to me.

 

[UNCFanatik]

If it impacts a guest on an individual level it's a negligible amount of time.

As I pointed out above, it's just as likely to benefit you as it is to impact you negatively, and over the course of a day and certainly a trip it will neither be a benefit or a detriment.

Further, you'll now waste more than that amount of park time criss crossing the park to make a FP time and hanging out in a park area because you don't have time to walk to another area of the park and get back for your window.

How can you even make that assertion? Different guests have different experiences. Even over the time frame of a trip, the net result could be a negative or positive.

And walking and criss crossing the park all depends, once again, on an individual's touring plan and style. You cant make a blanket statement on this because it depends on the individual.

Just admit you were wrong about late FP usage having ZERO negative affect on other guests. It is an impossibility.

 

[Luvin*Livvy]

I don't care either way. Every time I've been, I didn't even know you could go whenever...I always just followed the time on my ticket....I guess I'm a rule follower (LOL). This last trip they had just enforced it, and it didn't make any difference to us.

 

[mjp12831]

How can you even make that assertion? Different guests have different experiences. Even over the time frame of a trip, the net result could be a negative or positive.

And walking and criss crossing the park all depends, once again, on an individual's touring plan and style. You cant make a blanket statement on this because it depends on the individual.

Just admit you were wrong about late FP usage having ZERO negative affect on other guests. It is an impossibility.

Ok, you've convinced me - I'm wrong. I clearly should not have used practical examples, reasoning and math to prove othewise when I could have relied on rehetoric and non fact based opinions. Thanks for the elightenment.