Extra Magic Hours Still Exist

[Nancyg56]

Oh, just wait...

LOL!!! I know!

 

[graciedad]

That sure isn't true. There was plenty of howling when evening hours were cut from 3 to 2 hours. That moved killed my spirit. I still haven't recovered from that (and the universal credit card guarantee for ADRs).

What these extra paid magic hours are doing to me is killing the opportunity for extended late stays on non Evening EMH.

For example, in the summer, MK stays open to midnight often on non EMH nights. But now a few more days a week it will close at 10:00 so the hard ticket group can play from 10:00-1:00. It will definitely cut into my park time across the board. Same thing for rope drop. More mornings are being taken out of play.

This. Even if they keep the EMH, they are still taking away hours that we used to get on the non-EMH nights!

 

[Nancyg56]

For those of you defensing Disney, asking 'why not charge if they can get away with it'.....They are already charging for it! It's already built into the cost of the resort. This is their way of double-charging.

But, but all means, go down with the ship. Sure, some can afford it. But, most can't. And, the most ludicrous part of it is that it's a horrible deal. Given that Disney will oversell (and they will) and that it will take a good hour to clear all of the commoners from the park, you'll have at most 2 hours and experience lines as long or longer than the last hour of free EMH experience today.

I swear Disney has 'members' contribute on this board for the sole purpose of putting a positive spin on the propaganda.

I am one of those on the fence in regards to how this will affect most resort and park guests. I will nto comment as to the value for those who will purchase it, that is subjective in my opinion, and what seems to be a terrible use of money may be a great deal to another. WE have yet to learn how DIsney will handle the attractions that folks will have access to, although we have head the shops will still be open.

Because these really are not the EMH that resort guests have access to, and because it seems the events will be offered on evenings where were no EMH, resort guests are not paying for this already.

I think we can agree that DIsney has the right to charge for events as they can, but as consumers we have the right to say "No". So far the premium parking seems to be a bust. THe Epcot after hours was a flop. TIme will tell if there is a market for this.

I never make it to morning or evening magic hours, so I am not sure it will impact my family, but I am willing to listen to the discussion and then decide if I think that this is a terrible idea or not, based on overall impact to the Parks as well as how they may be implements into the rest of Disney parks moving forward.

 

[Delirium]

I am one of those on the fence in regards to how this will affect most resort and park guests. I will nto comment as to the value for those who will purchase it, that is subjective in my opinion, and what seems to be a terrible use of money may be a great deal to another. WE have yet to learn how DIsney will handle the attractions that folks will have access to, although we have head the shops will still be open.

Because these really are not the EMH that resort guests have access to, and because it seems the events will be offered on evenings where were no EMH, resort guests are not paying for this already.

I think we can agree that DIsney has the right to charge for events as they can, but as consumers we have the right to say "No". So far the premium parking seems to be a bust. THe Epcot after hours was a flop. TIme will tell if there is a market for this.

I never make it to morning or evening magic hours, so I am not sure it will impact my family, but I am willing to listen to the discussion and then decide if I think that this is a terrible idea or not, based on overall impact to the Parks as well as how they may be implements into the rest of Disney parks moving forward.

These ARE and will be the emh hours that guests have got for free before. As discussed over and over in this thread, EMH hours have been drastically cut over the last 2-3 years. Also, as discussed in a few posts above this, this will also impact REGULAR hours, which are being cut as well.

Taking everything all together. the average Disney Resort guest is getting quite a bit fewer park hours than they used to get while paying more for it That is a factual statement supported by the published park hours and the cost to stay onsite. And, oh, let's not forget that 2 of the parks currently have a significant amount of closed/dead space.

 

[Nancyg56]

These ARE and will be the emh hours that guests have got for free before. As discussed over and over in this thread, EMH hours have been drastically cut over the last 2-3 years. Also, as discussed in a few posts above this, this will also impact REGULAR hours, which are being cut as well.

Taking everything all together. the average Disney Resort guest is getting quite a bit fewer park hours than they used to get while paying more for it That is a factual statement supported by the published park hours and the cost to stay onsite. And, oh, let's not forget that 2 of the parks currently have a significant amount of closed/dead space.

I'm aware.

 

[DoingDisney]

I will. However, I just went back to do some double-checking, (because while my addition and subtraction skills are usually pretty good, I am not as strong or confident in my "non-addition" skills, and my original work was done in an airport on a tablet during a layover). After taking a deeper dive, things are actually a lot more severe than the original calculations show. In the past, there were several days when there were both am-EMH and pm-EMH on the same day, and I overlooked that. Also, I didn't pay attention to how many hours were provided in each EMH. I only looked at whether there were EMH at all. But it is worth noting the total of number of hours that are provided to guests to see if there has been any change there. I also looked at what those hours actually were. That too, matters. I only looked at 2012, 2015 and 2016 (to date), but here is what I found:

2012:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 3
12:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-3:00 = 8
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 11 with a total of 33 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 13
8:00-9:00 = 7
Total number of days with am-EMH = 20 with a total of 20 available hours.
Easter fell on April 8. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 14 (from 4/1-4/14).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2012 = 31.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 4.
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2012, both am and pm = 53.

****************************************************************

2015:
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 0
10:00-12:00 = 0
11:00-1:00 = 0
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 4
12:00-3:00 = 1
1:00-3:00 = 3
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 8 with a total of 17 available hours.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 15
8:00-9:00 = 4
Total number of days with am-EMH = 19 with a total of 19 available hours.
Easter fell on April 5. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 13 (from 3/29-4/10).

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2015 = 27.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 1
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2015, both am and pm = 36.


****************************************************************

2016: (As of today, March 31. Subject to change, but since Easter has passed, I doubt there will be any significant alterations):
Number of days with pm-EMHs that spanned from:
8:00-10:00 = 1*
10:00-12:00 = 1*
11:00-1:00 = 5
11:00-2:00 = 0
12:00-2:00 = 2
12:00-3:00 = 0
1:00-3:00 = 0
Total number of days with pm-EMH = 9 with a total of 18 available hours.
* Here is where it gets controversial. While the total number of days with pm-EMHs decreased modestly from 2012, and actually increased from 2015, 2 of those days, and 4 of those hours were very early in the evening when the park used to be open. This can be looked at two ways. Either this is sort of "cheating" when it comes to EMHs because they are overlaying them in hours when the park has always been open. On the other hand, some would say that EMHs before midnight are a great thing, as they are far more "usable" than, say 2:00 a.m.. I offer no editorializing here and only present the raw data. But I thought that this feature deserved to be pointed out.

Number of days with am-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 1
8:00-9:00 = 8
Total number of days with am-EMH = 9 with a total of 9 available hours.
Easter fell on March 27. Number of consecutive days with am-EMH in the Easter season = 0. EMHs were held on 3/25 and are scheduled to take place again on 4/1. There were no EMHs on Easter, the day before, or the day after, let alone a string of 13 or 14 consecutive days.

Total number of EMH opportunities in 2016 = 18.
Total number of days with both an am-EMH and pm-EMH = 0
Total number of actual hours in the EMHs for 2016, both am and pm = 27.


The decrease from 53 total EMHs in 2012 to 27 total EMHs in 2016, as well as the almost complete abolishment of the 7:00-8:00 am-EMH are the most striking things here. We went from 13 days with 7:00 am-EMHs in 2012 to 15 such days in 2015 to 1 such day in 2016. And when looking at the total number of am-EMHs, we have gone from 20 in 2012 to 19 in 2015 to just 9 in 2016. Another thing worth noting is the complete abolishment of the 3 hour EMH in the evening. That used to be the norm, and now that has shrunk to 2 hours. More to come at the end of April.

Yeaaaaaa .... I am just going to go ahead and say this settles it ... even though I thought I already settled it .... but this definitely settles it. Well done sir.

 

[Lucius Best]

The decrease from 53 total EMHs in 2012 to 27 total EMHs in 2016, as well as the almost complete abolishment of the 7:00-8:00 am-EMH are the most striking things here. We went from 13 days with 7:00 am-EMHs in 2012 to 15 such days in 2015 to 1 such day in 2016. And when looking at the total number of am-EMHs, we have gone from 20 in 2012 to 19 in 2015 to just 9 in 2016. Another thing worth noting is the complete abolishment of the 3 hour EMH in the evening. That used to be the norm, and now that has shrunk to 2 hours. More to come at the end of April.

You deserve to be highly commended for compiling these statistics to demonstrate beyond a doubt the degree by which EMH has been decreased due to the "non-addition" of hours. Unfortunately, I feel like using indisputable facts here on the DISboards is akin to using a rocket-propelled grenade to clear your backyard of mosquitos. You will be able to grill on your deck in peace tonight, but they'll be back.

Regarding the ridiculous 8-10pm evening EMH on a night when in past years MK surely did not close until 10pm, I don't think that is of any benefit to anyone except Disney beancounters. Off-site guests lose two hours of park time. On-site guests who can't stay up super late now get to attend an evening EMH, which is great, except that an 8-10pm EMH will be significantly more crowded than a post-midnight EMH. I had no idea that 8-10pm EMH even existed, but it makes perfect sense now in the context of the new upcharge extra hours events. Disney can shorten hours, while keeping EMH nights for on-site guests, and making evening EMH more accessible for on-site guests. At the same time, if the MK starts closing at 8pm for EMH on nights when the MK used to be open later, and shortening hours across the board, that will encourage both off-site and on-site guests to shell out the $150 apiece to experience a real late night.

 

[JimmyV]

You deserve to be highly commended

Thanks.

Regarding the ridiculous 8-10pm evening EMH on a night when in past years MK surely did not close until 10pm,

The heretofore unheard of 8:00-10:00 pm-EMH occurred on March 2, 2016. Using the date(s) closest to March 2 that had pm-EMHs in prior years, we find that the park closed on:

11:00 on March 4, 2012 with EMH going to 2:00.
10:00 on March 3, 2013 with EMH going to 12:00
11:00 on March 2, 2014 with EMH going to 1:00
1:00 on February 28, 2015 with EMH going to 3:00; and 12:00 on March 7, 2015 with EMH going to 3:00

So this 8:00 closing time with EMH going to 10:00 is unprecedented, at least as of late.

except that an 8-10pm EMH will be significantly more crowded than a post-midnight EMH.

This conclusion is unassailable. EMH from 8:00-10:00 would be "just another Tuesday" as the saying goes.

 

[Lucius Best]

So this 8:00 closing time with EMH going to 10:00 is unprecedented, at least as of late.

This conclusion is unassailable. EMH from 8:00-10:00 would be "just another Tuesday" as the saying goes.

In years past, when the schedule showed a day where park hours were unusually/historically short in comparison to surrounding dates, one possibility was some type of private/corporate after hours event. But given recent changes, and the fact that this was an EMH evening, my first guess now is that it was an experiment to judge attendance of the new upcoming "Next Generation EMH": why add 3 hours, whoops make that 2 hours, at the end of the day, when you can shorten the hours, and then kick out off-site guests 2 hours early. Off-site guests might become so desperate for a late night at MK that they will pay $150 for it. As will the on-site guests who soon realize that there is nothing special whatsoever about 8-10pm EMH.

 

[JimmyV]

my first guess now is that it was an experiment to judge attendance of the new upcoming "Next Generation EMH":

And this, in and of itself, is a problem--Disney using paying guests who planned their vacations months (years?) in advance as test subjects. I have no doubt that what is going on is that Disney is intentionally taking things away so that they can later reintroduce them for a fee. One can argue all one wants about whether the pay-to-play offering is worth the cost. But in the interim, before the pay-to-play offering goes live, guests are being subjected to the "before photo" with shorter hours and fewer options. It's not as if these guests are going to be able to come back in a few months to experience the "after photo". For some of these folks, this is their once in a lifetime, or once in a generation trip, and they are treated like test subjects while they are there.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Oh, just wait...

The decrease from 53 total EMHs in 2012 to 27 total EMHs in 2016, as well as the almost complete abolishment of the 7:00-8:00 am-EMH are the most striking things here. We went from 13 days with 7:00 am-EMHs in 2012 to 15 such days in 2015 to 1 such day in 2016. And when looking at the total number of am-EMHs, we have gone from 20 in 2012 to 19 in 2015 to just 9 in 2016. Another thing worth noting is the complete abolishment of the 3 hour EMH in the evening. That used to be the norm, and now that has shrunk to 2 hours. More to come at the end of April.

Do you, or does anybody, know exactly how many days before WDW extended the opening hours the publicized the 8 AM openings? Until they don't open the park to the public an hour earlier than the current calendar states, it's not an abolishment. It's not an extension - and if the park doesn't open an hour earlier than published to everyone, there's no reason to start EMH an hour earlier.

Agreed, there are currently nine (apparently over a two month period?) EMH scheduled. Disney will extend park hours and add EMH if they see a need.

Yes, there is one less hour of EMH each evening in each park. That went into effect later in 2012.

Number of days witham-EMHs that spanned from:
7:00-8:00 = 1

Curious as to the source, because the wdwinfo.com park hours calendar still shows every park opening at 9 AM every day in April

 

[Lucius Best]

Do you, or does anybody, know exactly how many days before WDW extended the opening hours the publicized the 8 AM openings?

I'm going to guess that nobody knows exactly what that sentence means, I think words the missing wrong the words.

Agreed, there are currently nine (apparently over a two month period?) EMH scheduled. Disney will extend park hours and add EMH if they see a need.

No, Disney is not going to extend park hours, and they are not going to add more EMH in April. If you read his post, he clearly stated that it was the weeks before and after Easter that used to have morning EMH almost every day. Easter has passed, and Disney did not add EMH to those very busy weeks. The weeks around Easter are two of the busiest weeks of the year. April school vacation week is nowhere near as busy as Easter.

 

[JimmyV]

Curious as to the source, because the wdwinfo.com park hours calendar still shows every park opening at 9 AM every day in April

All my data comes from the paid subscription of Touring Plans. Both their observations for past dates and their hours for upcoming dates.

 

[kaytieeldr]

In years past, when the schedule showed a day where park hours were unusually/historically short in comparison to surrounding dates, one possibility was some type of private/corporate after hours event. But given recent changes, and the fact that this was an EMH evening, my first guess now is that it was an experiment to judge attendance of the new upcoming "Next Generation EMH": why add 3 hours, whoops make that 2 hours, at the end of the day, when you can shorten the hours, and then kick out off-site guests 2 hours early. Off-site guests might become so desperate for a late night at MK that they will pay $150 for it. As will the on-site guests who soon realize that there is nothing special whatsoever about 8-10pm EMH.

Magic Kingdom scheduled - six months earlier - hours for January 11, 12, 13, 14, 26, 27, 28; February 2, 3; March 2, 3, 2016 were always 9 AM to 8 PM. (edited by me at 1 AM next day t o reflect actually scheduled hours) Evening EMH have been two hours long since some time in 2012. There's nothing "special" about an 8-10 EMH compared to other nights when the park is open later, but two hours after the park c loses to the public is still two hours. As far as I know, MK,standard operating hours are 9-7.

All my data comes from the paid subscription of Touring Plans. Both their observations for past dates and their hours for upcoming dates.

Okay, I don't have a subscription, but they can only post what's been made public. It's not April yet. As posters have stated Disney even adds EMH while they're there, i.e. last minute. If there is a need to add EMH, they will - and sites like TouringPlans, Swindon.com, and easywdw will update their calendars

 

[Angel Ariel]

So with this logic, since Disney didn't have morning EMH each morning during Easter week this year, the crowds must not have warranted it? This is what I'm gathering from the discussion.

Considering Craig, from the disunplugged podcast, was specifically commenting on how crazy the Easter crowds have been this week, I find it highly unlikely that crowds were significantly less this year than they were in other years where Easter has been in March as well (and more emh were offered).

 

[Delirium]

As far as I know, MK,standard operating hours are 9-7.

During Daylight Savings time, how in the world would Disney have nightly fireworks if the MK had standard operating hours ending at 7 PM?

Please stop trying to spin this in the direction you want it to go.

 

[HopperFan]

For those of you defending Disney, asking 'why not charge if they can get away with it'.....They are already charging for it! It's already built into the cost of the resort. This is their way of double-charging.

But, but all means, go down with the ship. Sure, some can afford it. But, most can't. And, the most ludicrous part of it is that it's a horrible deal. Given that Disney will oversell (and they will) and that it will take a good hour to clear all of the commoners from the park, you'll have at most 2 hours and experience lines as long or longer than the last hour of free EMH experience today.

I swear Disney has 'members' contribute on this board for the sole purpose of putting a positive spin on the propaganda.

These ARE and will be the emh hours that guests have got for free before. As discussed over and over in this thread, EMH hours have been drastically cut over the last 2-3 years. Also, as discussed in a few posts above this, this will also impact REGULAR hours, which are being cut as well.

Taking everything all together. the average Disney Resort guest is getting quite a bit fewer park hours than they used to get while paying more for it That is a factual statement supported by the published park hours and the cost to stay onsite. And, oh, let's not forget that 2 of the parks currently have a significant amount of closed/dead space.

During Daylight Savings time, how in the world would Disney have nightly fireworks if the MK had standard operating hours ending at 7 PM?

Please stop trying to spin this in the direction you want it to go.

Spies working for the Disney propaganda machine joining the conspiracy by posting on DISboards????

- Proven above and as you post ... EMH have been disappearing for YEARS, has nothing to do with paid events.
- EMH have not been part of the resort perks since day one. When first added you even paid for them.
- EMH were added as a perk to encourage onsite bookings at a time when things were slow.
- Resorts come with perks subject to change, hours are always changing.
- There is no double-charging, you pay the rate with terms that all is subject to change.
- EMH make virtually no money but cost plenty, a good business move is monetize it or cut it.
- Resorts now come with perks not available when EMH started: ME, MagicBands, 60 day FP+ .. so they drop one.
- Disney is not a social service, it's a BUSINESS and answers to it's stockbrokers.
- Disney World is in the midst of being Shanghai'd in the pocketbook, and they are making cuts.
- I feel really bad for the poor CMs losing pay, not so bad for guests who pay resort prices losing a couple hours.
- I see it as testing - do you want NO EMH or do you want to PAY for EMH? Guests will answer that for them.
- To reel in costs I see them going the Universal route with hours being more limited year round.
- What to do if parks close right at fireworks ending ... maybe go to Disney Springs and spend money?
- There is always a method in their madness.
- Disney is and always has been a luxury vacation that is completely OPTIONAL. If it doesn't work, don't go.
- If others want to keep going and spend their money that way, good for them, so what, who cares? Not me.

No one is spinning. Some of us are just looking at it from business point of view vs emotional, it's not personal.

Do we like it, no. I don't see myself booking onsite much without PM EMH. That's okay, I'll save plenty staying offsite and there is lots to do in Orlando now. Hey, I just booked a special event at Universal with no plans to go to WDW. Vote with your dollars.

AND ..... I think there still are EMH ..... for now.

 

[bcrook]

Magic Kingdom scheduled - six months earlier - hours for January 11, 12, 13, 14, 26, 27, 28; February 2, 3; March 2, 3, 2016 were always 8 AM to 9 PM. Evening EMH have been two hours long since some time in 2012. There's nothing "special" about an 8-10 EMH compared to other nights when the park is open later, but two hours after the park c loses to the public is still two hours. As far as I know, MK,standard operating hours are 9-7.

Okay, I don't have a subscription, but they can only post what's been made public. It's not April yet. As posters have stated Disney even adds EMH while they're there, i.e. last minute. If there is a need to add EMH, they will - and sites like TouringPlans, Swindon.com, and easywdw will update their calendars

I can't make sense of much of this at all. Are you really trying to argue that EMH have NOT been cut? The arguments and data have been clearly outlined. And I've never been to WDW when Magic Kingdom closed at 7:00 except for party days.

 

[dfb]

Did 5 trips last year from Jan 2015 - Jan 2016. As one who opens and closes the parks, the reduction of EMHs and hours of operation was definitely noticeable. Even family members, who are not park openers and closers, had made comments toward the hours of operation.

As we are not Disney Execs on a planning board (or are you??), we will not really know what's going to happen until it happens but there are enough indicators to have a lot of suspicion about the future of EMHs.

Recent price increases, personnel cuts, reports of record profits and attendance, money grab events such as the before/after hours events, dessert parties with little to no value to the guest. If you look at these changes occurring in a relatively short amount of time, you can't help but to have a feeling of pure greed and almost desperation on the part of Disney. It does not make good business sense to me. I've many times defended Disney in the past about price related or value related items. The recent changes make it very hard to defend.

 

[HopperFan]

I can't make sense of much of this at all. Are you really trying to argue that EMH have NOT been cut? The arguments and data have been clearly outlined. And I've never been to WDW when Magic Kingdom closed at 7:00 except for party days.

I have. We used to travel during the "slower" seasons ... and the parks closed at 7. I remember one year it was aggravating because we had hoped to spend our evenings at the resort having dinner then let the kids swim a couple hours since it was plenty warm. Due to an unusual mosquito issue, all pools closed at dusk .......... so not one park was open past 7 and no pools were open.
Bottom line they can't keep cutting CMs and CM hours and still have the manpower to maintain these long hours.