External flashes

[boBQuincy]

Hi boBQUINCY,

You mentioned that you have 2 Lumiquest diffusers that fit your Canon 220EX Speedlite -- which ones are they if you don't mind me asking? I have a Canon G7 that I use a 220EX with & am desperately seeking a solution for diffusion. Thanks!

I have the "Mini Softbox - for Shoe-Mount Flashes" (LUSBM at B&H) and the "Ultra Bounce - Wide Angle Flash Diffusion" (LUUB). Since no one makes a dedicated diffuser for the 220EX they attach with Velcro but it works ok.

For MICKEY88, the farther a light source is from the subject, the straighter the light rays hit the subject, making the light harder (small, well defined shadow). When the light is close some or many of the light rays can hit the subject at an angle, softening the light (larger, softer shadow).

 

[jamescousteau]

Sweet! Thanks so much!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I also don't follow the logic that the light source being farther away, makes the light harder,rather than softer... one way of softening studio lighting and reducing shadows is to move the lights farther from your subject..

I think you are remembering the rule backwards. Bigger lights make softer shadows. That's why we use softboxes. From the perspective of the subject, a light that is farther away looks smaller and a light that is closer looks bigger. That's why the sun, despite being millions of times bigger than a softbox, creates hard shadows.

 

[AndrewWG]

All,

Well I finally decided on an external flash and bought the Canon Speedlite 430EX. This seemed like a great choice for the 30D and for my wallet. I used it last night for the first time at my friends wedding. I got nothing much more than mixed results with the flash. Here are the symptoms. I have noticed that if the camera is set on AUTO, the photos aren't so bad. As soon as I go into AV (the mode I use the most) the photos were blurry, etc due to the slower shutter speeds that were being used. However, I noticed that the photos I took in AUTO did not produce a RAW file even though the camera was set on RAW+JPG. I only got the JPG file. I could have really used the RAW files as they were usually somewhat underexposed. So now I am really confused. Please keep in mind that the drinks were free and I couldn't have figured out how to fix these problems on the fly if I wanted to!

How does someone use the flash, in a manual mode such as Av and get the shutter speed to be fast enough to not produce blur in a darkly lit room such as a wedding reception? Am I looking too much into this and thinking that the flash will solve all the lighting problems? I know that on my old film camera (which I only used on AUTO) when I put on the flash, it would change the settings of the camera to compensate for the fact that there was a flash attached. Should I have bumped up my ISO to compensate? I feel like I really really let down the groom by getting these junk shots of his wedding as I was the best man. Thankfully, I was NOT the photographer and I'm sure his shots came out just fine. I just wish I could see his EXIF info as he shot with a 20D. Maybe I will give him a call and see if he will tell me what his settings were like. I have another wedding next weekend and would really like to get this right before then.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[jann1033]

no suggestions but just want to see what the answer is...trying to decide if i should just get a cheap flash( ie that vivatar or sunpack "cheap but good for the prices") but will have to use it manual or wait till dec when i can get the one i really want.

 

[AndrewWG]

I thought about the cheaper flashes but the one thing I didn't like was their recycle time. It was quite slow. I found last night that I liked the faster recycle time of the 430EX alot. I could have actually used it a bit faster even. I don't think that in most cases I would need this function, but it is nice to have.

Now that my head is starting to get out of the fog that I put it in last night, maybe I can explain my question a bit better.

What I was wondering is if the camera is metering off of available light and giving me a 1/30 sec f5.6 shot, what will the effect of the flash be? Will this overexpose shots since the camera isn't taking into effect the extra light from the flash? I thought that the camera would take this into effect and bump the shutter speed up a bit, but I don't think that is the case at all.

Maybe I'm still in a fog...

 

[boBQuincy]

All,

Well I finally decided on an external flash and bought the Canon Speedlite 430EX. This seemed like a great choice for the 30D and for my wallet. I used it last night for the first time at my friends wedding. I got nothing much more than mixed results with the flash. Here are the symptoms. I have noticed that if the camera is set on AUTO, the photos aren't so bad. As soon as I go into AV (the mode I use the most) the photos were blurry, etc due to the slower shutter speeds that were being used. However, I noticed that the photos I took in AUTO did not produce a RAW file even though the camera was set on RAW+JPG. I only got the JPG file.

AFAIK "AUTO" will only give JPGs. It also limits ISO to 400 maximum, and locks out a lot of other features as well. "P" is usually a better choice, although "AUTO" is good when we're drinking! Both P and AUTO set the shutter and aperture for the flash, eliminating blur but also mostly eliminating ambient light.

How does someone use the flash, in a manual mode such as Av and get the shutter speed to be fast enough to not produce blur in a darkly lit room such as a wedding reception?

Short answer, we can't. In Av the camera will set a shutter speed appropriate for the aperture, usually pretty slow. Wide open we may get a decent shutter speed but probably not even then with the lighting at most wedding receptions. I recently photographed a local play using Av and had the ISO at 800 and even 1600 to get a fast enough shutter speed.

Am I looking too much into this and thinking that the flash will solve all the lighting problems?

It won't solve all of them but it can certainly help! Bounce flash with a diffuser that throws some of the light forward may look better. Getting the flash off the camera also helps. The "Strobist" web site has a lot of good ideas!


boB

 

[MarkBarbieri]

All,

Well I finally decided on an external flash and bought the Canon Speedlite 430EX. This seemed like a great choice for the 30D and for my wallet. I used it last night for the first time at my friends wedding. I got nothing much more than mixed results with the flash. Here are the symptoms. I have noticed that if the camera is set on AUTO, the photos aren't so bad. As soon as I go into AV (the mode I use the most) the photos were blurry, etc due to the slower shutter speeds that were being used. However, I noticed that the photos I took in AUTO did not produce a RAW file even though the camera was set on RAW+JPG. I only got the JPG file. I could have really used the RAW files as they were usually somewhat underexposed. So now I am really confused. Please keep in mind that the drinks were free and I couldn't have figured out how to fix these problems on the fly if I wanted to!

How does someone use the flash, in a manual mode such as Av and get the shutter speed to be fast enough to not produce blur in a darkly lit room such as a wedding reception? Am I looking too much into this and thinking that the flash will solve all the lighting problems? I know that on my old film camera (which I only used on AUTO) when I put on the flash, it would change the settings of the camera to compensate for the fact that there was a flash attached. Should I have bumped up my ISO to compensate? I feel like I really really let down the groom by getting these junk shots of his wedding as I was the best man. Thankfully, I was NOT the photographer and I'm sure his shots came out just fine. I just wish I could see his EXIF info as he shot with a 20D. Maybe I will give him a call and see if he will tell me what his settings were like. I have another wedding next weekend and would really like to get this right before then.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Flash is a little tricky. Be patient.

First, AV mode is different from other flash modes. With AV mode, the camera exposes the scene as normal and uses the flash to suplement. You generally only use this mode if there is some part of the scene that you want exposed using ambient light while another part of the scene needs light from the flash to brighten it. A good example might be a night shot of someone in front of something illuminated. In that case, you put your camera on a tripod and ask your subject to stay very still, even after the flash.

If you use P (program), Tv (shutter priority), or M (manual), your camera will use the flash to help properly expose the scene. P is the easiest, because the camera handles everything for you.

M works much better than you might think. When I'm indoors, I often check to see how the camera wants to meter a scene without flash. If everything is OK but the shutter speed is a little too low, I'll switch to manual and bump the shutter speed up to something I think is reasonable. For example, if the camera is telling me that it wants me to shoot 1/15s at f/4.0, I might boost that to 1/60s at f/4.0 in manual and turn on the flash. The flash will automatically adjust it's output to give me a decent exposure. It will come at the cost of having distant items behind my subject come out dim, but if I don't deviate too far from a reasonable ambient light exposure, the effect isn't too bad. If you can bounce the flash off the ceiling, you can get away with more flash illumination.

As was mentioned already Full "Auto" mode doesn't do RAW. It essentially assumes that you know nothing and treats your camera like a simple point and shoot. It will happily override all sorts of functions. If you want to control everything except your exposure settings, use P instead of Auto.

 

[Lizziejane]

As Mark has already said, the problem is aperture mode, unless you use a tripod. Not that I'm an expert by any means - I struggle with flash too! Here's a great link that explains all about the EOS system and Canon external flash. it's very lengthy but definitely worth a read if you've invested the extra money.

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html

 

[handicap18]

Most times when I use my flash I like Aperture Priority at f/5.6 and ISO 400. The camera usually picks 1/60th and things seem to work out pretty well. I will bounce the flash with the diffuser as needed, sometimes I need it bounced and other times I don't (both with the diffuser on).

I'll go back later and look at the EXIF on some of my flash shots and see what it gives me. But I'm leaning towards what I typed above.

I don't know Canon's flash guns, but with my Nikon there are basically 3 modes. Full Manual (which I don't use), FULL TTL (which I almost always use) and Fill TTL (don't use very often). If you use the Fill then the flash obviously wont be as bright. Just something to check.

 

[AndrewWG]

Thanks everyone for all the advice here! It figures I used the one mode that the flash doesn't work well with! I know that one problem I have is going to a setting that the camera says is over or under exposed. I have to get over that one. I usually just set it so that the camera is happy with the exposure and fire away. I will try Tv or M next Saturday night at wedding #2 this month. I may try to talk a bit with the photographer that night and see what he/she says about how they do it so well.

Lizzie, that article is great although it is a bit over my head at this point. I will have to print it and re-read it to see if I can understand it better. Seems there is alot more to flash photography than I had given it credit for!

 

[boBQuincy]

One other trick that might work (still in Av) if there is "almost" enough ambient light is to set the basic exposure for two stops under, and set the flash exposure for two stops over.
This would make for a faster shutter speed, as fast as possible for the ambient light level.

 

[Lizziejane]

Andy - believe me, most of that article is over my head too - however, section two really gets to the heart of what we *need* to know about flash in the different modes. And even I can understand it! the problem is, when I'm off somewhere shooting, I forget it all. So I've printed it off and stuck it in the camera bag. Let us know if the wedding photographer gives you any great tips

 

[jann1033]

holy crow, just reading this thread is giving me fear of flash..maybe i 'm not ready.....

 

[seashoreCM]

Is the external flash unit actually triggered by the camera's built in flash?

If so, see if you can find a "normal" flash setting among your manual modes (seeing that Auto doesn't give you the RAW format file). This should result in a reasonably fast shutter that also synchronizes with the flash.

Trigger by flash sometimes gets a premature trigger when others are taking flash pictures. Then when you take your picture, the flash unit hasn't recharged enough and your picture is too dark.

Digital camera hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/digicam.htm

 

[DVC Jen]

This is a great thread. I have been fighting with my flash as well. Just can't seem to get the hang of it. Jane I bookmarked the link you gave and will read it when I don't have any distractions.

Any advice anyone has - or tips towards using flash is super appreciated.

 

[gruZ]

If you want to get into some more detail, I suggest this link. It's a Canon forum, but the principles apply no matter what brand you prefer. There is another link buried right at the top of the one I suggested, which also goes into more detail.

As long as I'm suggesting links, if you are getting into flash, take a look over at Strobist. This is a link to the Lighting 101 series. Again, this is a bit more advanced (as his entire premise is using the flash OFF the camera), but it does give a ton of very good information.

Flash is tricky at first. Hang with it, and you will begin to wonder how you ever got along without it!

 

[MICKEY88]

One other trick that might work (still in Av) if there is "almost" enough ambient light is to set the basic exposure for two stops under, and set the flash exposure for two stops over.
This would make for a faster shutter speed, as fast as possible for the ambient light level.

I may be wrong here, but I think that method would result in an underexposed background with a harshly lit subject if taking people pics, it's best to balance the lighting...

plus no matter how you try to trick the camera/flash, most flashes have a max sync of 60 or 125, unless you get a higher end flash that has high speed sync..

 

[MICKEY88]

All,

Please keep in mind that the drinks were free and I couldn't have figured out how to fix these problems on the fly if I wanted to!

How does someone use the flash, in a manual mode such as Av and get the shutter speed to be fast enough to not produce blur in a darkly lit room such as a wedding reception? Am I looking too much into this and thinking that the flash will solve all the lighting problems? I know that on my old film camera (which I only used on AUTO) when I put on the flash, it would change the settings of the camera to compensate for the fact that there was a flash attached. Should I have bumped up my ISO to compensate? I feel like I really really let down the groom by getting these junk shots of his wedding as I was the best man. Thankfully, I was NOT the photographer and I'm sure his shots came out just fine. I just wish I could see his EXIF info as he shot with a 20D. Maybe I will give him a call and see if he will tell me what his settings were like. I have another wedding next weekend and would really like to get this right before then.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

first advice, free or not, alcohol and good photography do not mix.seriously...

a good place to start is....

gary fong difffuser

iso 400-800

manual or aperture priority

f 1.4-f 4...fastest possible....

1/30 to 1/60 shutter....




the flash should freeze any motion, if you are getting blur, the problem lies elsewhare, camera shake/etc.

 

[AndrewWG]

first advice, free or not, alcohol and good photography do not mix.seriously...

a good place to start is....

gary fong difffuser

iso 400-800

manual or aperture priority

f 1.4-f 4...fastest possible....

1/30 to 1/60 shutter....


the flash should freeze any motion, if you are getting blur, the problem lies elsewhare, camera shake/etc.

Point taken! That is why I used the fully auto mode in the first place. I knew that my creative juices had taken a backseat to the Bud Light demons.

I took a look at the Gary Fong stuff and had no idea which one to buy so I gave up on that. Any suggestions on this?