Explosions and shootings in Paris

[wilkeliza]

Its nice that you don't have anyone around you living in a temporary shelter. We do. In fact we have many people living in a little tent city down by a creek behind WalMart. THEIR needs should come first. The man on the corner that is dirty and hungry and homeless but did 3 tours in Vietnam, should come first.

It is possible to help both. Just because we have needy here, doesn't mean we turn our backs on others as well.

 

[cabanafrau]

Of course it sounds good, reassuring. I think the governors that are trying to appear like they themselves will "protect" their citizens should tell their citizens the truth. There are a lot of solid reasons for the Refugee Act of 1980. It's not in our overall best interest to have individual states engaging in foreign policy.

It is a complicated situation. And yes, I am for carefully vetting refugees, but that was going to happen, anyway. It's part of the process.

There may be some space to consider the issue both foreign policy as well as a domestic one. In a republican (small r) form of government we want to be careful about limiting the voices of individual citizens, as well as those elected to represent and advocate for us.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do think it merits serious consideration, a national conversation and serious efforts to get it right in the interest of both a humanitarian crisis and (inter)national security. Plenty of matters to consider.

 

[gwynne]

It is possible to help both. Just because we have needy here, doesn't mean we turn our backs on others as well.

ITA. I was part of a team that greeted some of the plane loads of Kurdish refugees in the 90's. I saw the initial arrival process first hand. Those folks eventually moved on and have found a home in the US. I know quite a few are in Nashville. Just because they are refugees doesn't mean they lack skills.

It's possible to help both groups, people already here and refugees.

 

[asta]

More of the interview with the terrorists' brother. It gets deeper with every word. We don't understand his brother (boohoo) but wants us to know that he was psychologically prepared to commit murder. This statement comes from a family that also wants us to believe that they knew absolutely nothing about the family members living with them and planning this. You can't have it both ways. You either believed they were innocents or you knew they were prepared to murder.

Also the one brother who has already blown himself up owned/ran a bar closed for allowing drug sales and drug use. How in the world does that reconcile with the religious extremism that I keep reading is behind ISIS. Over simplifying but I thought ISIS want to kill us because we aren't as pure as them. And yet they are OK with drug use?

 

[gwynne]

More of the interview with the terrorists' brother. It gets deeper with every word. We don't understand his brother (boohoo) but wants us to know that he was psychologically prepared to commit murder. This statement comes from a family that also wants us to believe that they knew absolutely nothing about the family members living with them and planning this. You can't have it both ways. You either believed they were innocents or you knew they were prepared to murder.

Also the one brother who has already blown himself up owned/ran a bar closed for allowing drug sales and drug use. How in the world does that reconcile with the religious extremism that I keep reading is behind ISIS. Over simplifying but I thought ISIS want to kill us because we aren't as pure as them. And yet they are OK with drug use?

I believe they are primarily hardened gang members/criminals with a little religion sprinkled on top.

 

[pryncess527]

I would say your govenor is an idiot and not looking out for the citizens of his state.

or her governor is smart enough to know the limits of his power.

I am embarrassed that my governor seemingly has no idea what falls under his jurisdiction vs federal jurisdiction. I'm quite curious for him to explain how he's going to keep refugees out of our state, given that people travel freely across state lines. I would prefer that my elected officials not grand-stand by making claims of what they'll do, with no basis in reality or actual granted powers. I'd prefer that if my elected officials see a problem, they work constructively towards a solution, not stomp their feet, whine, and act as if they have control over state borders.

 

[WIcruizer]

We shouldn't limit it to 10,000. Why not take all of them? While we're at it, it won't be long before we see scores of thousands more claiming refugee status from other Middle Eastern countries. Let's take them too. I mean, either we're compassionate or we're not. You can't just be "a little compassionate" can you? We do have this perfect vetting process to weed out any terrorists or potential terrorists. It's as simple as asking to see their ISIS membership card.

 

[Geoff_M]

It's not in our overall best interest to have individual states engaging in foreign policy.

I think it's important to understand what the governors are actually talking about. They aren't threatening to close their borders to the Syrian refugees or using state police to locate and expel any such refugees. They are talking about not providing settlement assistance to the refugees, and working with the Feds to help facilitate the process. That's not an infringement on foreign policy, but without the help of the states, it would be up to the Feds to figure out where to house them long term.

 

[eliza61]

Well, taking in refugees or not isn't truly under the governor's control, although some would like it to appear that it is. I'm sure the ones that are making the most noise are hoping their residents have little understanding of the actual legal process.

The whys and hows of this are basically spelled out in the Refugee Act of 1980.

thank the Good lord. I detest folks who propagate fear in whatever disaster is currently vogue. for no more reasons that it will bring them gain.

 

[cabanafrau]

I believe they are primarily hardened gang members/criminals with a little religion sprinkled on top.

Interesting to see when those religious sprinkles sparkle in the light of day.

 

[pryncess527]

I think it's important to understand what the governors are actually talking about. They aren't threatening to close their borders to the Syrian refugees or using state police to locate and expel any such refugees. They are talking about not providing settlement assistance to the refugees, and working with the Feds to help facilitate the process. That's not an infringement on foreign policy, but without the help of the states, it would be up to the Feds to figure out where to house them long term.

Which is nothing more than a senseless roadblock that wastes time, but doesn't actually prevent anyone from entering their state. The Feds can work with local governments (Atlanta's mayor disagrees with the governor, for example), they can work with non-profits directly. The federal government does not REQUIRE participation or assistance from the states in this matter. They welcome it, it makes things easier and safer - but stomping their feet like children and refusing to help doesn't actually prevent the Federal government from moving these refugees into states.

 

[taitai]

We shouldn't limit it to 10,000. Why not take all of them? While we're at it, it won't be long before we see scores of thousands more claiming refugee status from other Middle Eastern countries. Let's take them too. I mean, either we're compassionate or we're not. You can't just be "a little compassionate" can you? We do have this perfect vetting process to weed out any terrorists or potential terrorists. It's as simple as asking to see their ISIS membership card.

Obviously you are being sarcastic as no one is that uninformed. In order to receive refugee status in the US, an applicant must do the following (from and Economist article)....
Refugees apply for resettlement at American embassies or through the United Nations. If they pass that first hurdle, they are screened by outposts of the Department of State all over the world. They undergo investigations of their biography and identity; FBI biometric checks of their fingerprints and photographs; in-person interviews by Department of Homeland Security officers; medical screenings as well as investigations by the National Counter-terrorism Centre and by American and international intelligence agencies. The process may take as long as three years, sometimes longer. No other person entering America is subjected to such a level of scrutiny.

If ISIS wants to come to the US to cause harm, all they need to do is secure a tourist visa and they are in the country. It is really, really easy to enter the US. Attempting to come in in order to do harm via refugee status is absurd.

 

[luvsJack]

It is possible to help both. Just because we have needy here, doesn't mean we turn our backs on others as well.

And yet we don't.

 

[eliza61]

We shouldn't limit it to 10,000. Why not take all of them? While we're at it, it won't be long before we see scores of thousands more claiming refugee status from other Middle Eastern countries. Let's take them too. I mean, either we're compassionate or we're not. You can't just be "a little compassionate" can you? We do have this perfect vetting process to weed out any terrorists or potential terrorists. It's as simple as asking to see their ISIS membership card.

LOl, ok I'll play it the other way.

Why not build a huge fence around the country, don't let anyone in. In fact why not have the military stationed around all ports with shoot to kill orders.
I mean if we're going to use hyperbole to make a point.

 

[wilkeliza]

And yet we don't.

I don't know where you live but at least where I do there are tons of private and public programs to try and help people stay off the streets. As for myself personally I do things through my temple and give food and cash when I can even if I suspect the cash isn't going where I think it is. Now if someone continues to choose to be homeless because they don't want to follow the rules of the shelters then that is on them and not everyone else.

 

[robinb]

If the terrorism of ISIS is a world-wide problem, the solution is also world-wide. That includes helping the victims of their terrorism. If we do nothing but bomb the heck out of ISIS and their remaining civilian shields without also extending an open hand to the refugees we will do nothing more than create a successful ISIS membership drive.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't know where you live but at least where I do there are tons of private and public programs to try and help people stay off the streets. As for myself personally I do things through my temple and give food and cash when I can even if I suspect the cash isn't going where I think it is. Now if someone continues to choose to be homeless because they don't want to follow the rules of the shelters then that is on them and not everyone else.

There are programs here. There are shelters and soup kitchens and all the rest. But they can only do so much. Very few are choosing to remain homeless.

 

[Patch'sD]

and when they move to turkey, France or Germany. do we bomb them??
How about if they land and build a foot hold in Canada, do we bomb them??
Planets only so big, now that we've bomb every country in the East Asia (and possible now cause a rapid increase in growing other terrorist) because you've missed your target and killed a million innocent kids in turkey and Iran. what then? that's not a flippant question that is a very real serious question.

And it 10 years do you go back and re bomb all over again? or are you suggesting kill all Iraqias, Syrians and Egyptians?
forget Russia, no way in heckdom are they remotely going to participate and I doubt Germany would go for it also. let's not forget that China, which is the worlds second largest consumer, own quite a bit of the US and can cause a financial meltdown and in my opinion just a willing to send a few missiles our way.

As much as I understand the anger. they days of John Wayne are over and not looking at the repercussions of randomly dropping bombs and nukes all over the planet is irresponsible.

I don't think Turkey, France or Germany would allow the footholds like what happens now. I am concerned about the 129 innocents in France or the 2077 Innocents killed on 9/11. How many innocents were killed in the 289 Terrorist attacks this year. If a country wants to provide safe harbor for these terrorists than they risk harm to their infrastructure and their populations. What we are doing now is not working and it's time to turn up the heat.

 

[eliza61]

And yet we don't.

you ever wonder why? because if any plan to help those less fortunate come into play, we here the screaming about "I don't want to pay for it" or "they (insert whatever group we are currently afraid of) will harm us.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Back to the question of what motivates someone to join ISIS (particularly leaving a 1st World existence to do so), the flip side of that question is, "what terrifies ISIS?". They all seem convinced that their individual demise will only bring Nirvana in the afterlife. So, how do we convince them otherwise?