Explosions and shootings in Paris

[cabanafrau]

I have never heard "the homeless veterans/families/children will harm us" that doesn't even make sense???? These homeless are our citizens. They are here in this country. How are they going to harm us? Do you really think all those not wanting to pay for our own people to be fed are going to want to feed the Syrian refugees? If they can be ignored for one, why not the other?

Strictly replying to the portion regarding never hearing homeless veteras/families/children will harm us. You've never heard anyone with the mentality of not in my backyard in regards to the homeless? It's not an incredibly uncommon stance.

Note, I'm NOT saying it's correct or right. I'm just shocked you've never heard any at all. There have been some extensively reported incidents regarding homeless in NYC and other areas of the country being pressured to head elsewhere.

 

[luvsJack]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-in-congress-intensify-push-to-block-syrian-refugee-plan/

Has this been posted? Looks like Congress wants to at least slow it down.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

It's funny you should ask. I tried and failed to come up with the words to express a fantasy I have about taking these dirtbags into captivity one at a time and subjecting them to a brainwashing system of psychological warfare where each and every one of their repugnant "beliefs" is turned on its head, starting with the premise that the supreme being is female and society is matriarchal and governed that way. I have literally daydreamed about the slackjawed look on their faces as they are forced to live an existence where all evidence and everything they experience 24/7 tells them that is truth and reality, sort of like the concept of the movie The Truman Show where Jim Carrey's character lives in a reality that only he is unaware is fabricated for a television audience.

I was just wondering about dipping bullets in pig blood before shooting them LOL. You have a better imagination

 

[CPanther95]

Ok, and the war in afghanistan was successful? seems to me all bombing has done is made more terrorist. the proof is right there in Paris. we've been drone attacking isis for a while now.
What do you mean turning up the heat? send in troops? drop a nuke? militarily you don't have a bunch of options. dropping a nuke is out, plain and simple. so what's the heat you speak of. I damn sure ain't sending my kid to war.

Drone attacks aren't enough - that's exactly what Paris showed us.

If we don't turn up the heat, you won't have to send your kid to war - they'll bring the war to your kid.

 

[luvsJack]

Strictly replying to the portion regarding never hearing homeless veteras/families/children will harm us. You've never heard anyone with the mentality of not in my backyard in regards to the homeless? It's not an incredibly uncommon stance.

Note, I'm NOT saying it's correct or right. I'm just shocked you've never heard any at all. There have been some extensively reported incidents regarding homeless in NYC and other areas of the country being pressured to head elsewhere.

The only thing I have ever heard people around here object to in their backyard was a mental hospital. This hospital was very some very dangerous mentally ills patients. Anyway, it was built, everyone got used to it, it provided jobs and now all is well. No one (at least around here) has said anything about homeless shelters or soup kitchens. Most people know where a large portion are living and feel that we NEED these things.

 

[Geoff_M]

Back to the question of what motivates someone to join ISIS (particularly leaving a 1st World existence to do so), the flip side of that question is, "what terrifies ISIS?". They all seem convinced that their individual demise will only bring Nirvana in the afterlife. So, how do we convince them otherwise?

From Wood's Atlantic article, it would seem that the "worst fear" would be things that would "de-legitimize" ISIS as a "caliphate" in the eyes of the Muslim world. If other countries force ISIS back into a military "stalemate" and one of the prime directives of a caliphate (to continually expand and conquer those around them) is lost, then it's likely that ISIS may collapse as another failed violent regime.

 

[ChloroformSdxn]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news.../?postshare=8231447766977268&tid=ss_tw-bottom

This is worth a read. Many people are seeing some pretty stunning parallels between the anti-Jewish sentiment during WW2 and what's happening now w Syrians.

 

[cabanafrau]

I was just wondering about dipping bullets in pig blood before shooting them LOL. You have a better imagination

My daughters were less appreciative of my "imaginative" punishments as they were growing up. I'm sure most would say I'm very dark or there's something wrong with me.

 

[cabanafrau]

The only thing I have ever heard people around here object to in their backyard was a mental hospital. This hospital was very some very dangerous mentally ills patients. Anyway, it was built, everyone got used to it, it provided jobs and now all is well. No one (at least around here) has said anything about homeless shelters or soup kitchens. Most people know where a large portion are living and feel that we NEED these things.

Like I said, I'm not trying to suggest in any way that we don't need homeless shelters, soup kitchens, food banks, etc. I'm also aware that there is also a great many people who may even donate to assist those in need -- but want it kept out of their backyards. It's absolutely not unheard of.

 

[luvsJack]

Like I said, I'm not trying to suggest in any way that we don't need homeless shelters, soup kitchens, food banks, etc. I'm also aware that there is also a great many people who may even donate to assist those in need -- but want it kept out of their backyards. It's absolutely not unheard of.

I am sure it isn't. But that still does not change the fact that if we can ignore those arguments to feed and house the refugees why can we not ignore them when it comes to taking care of our own citizens?

 

[gwynne]

I am sure it isn't. But that still does not change the fact that if we can ignore those arguments to feed and house the refugees why can we not ignore them when it comes to taking care of our own citizens?

But they aren't the same population. At all. Long term homeless need more support, much more help for a much longer period of time. They often don't have recent job skills.
They may have mental illness or other factors that are part of their situation.

I've met refugees. They are really motivated. The ones I knew worked multiple jobs so that they can recover and finally do well. Example? A woman that helped with cooking classes as one of her three part time jobs. Her profession? Pharmacist. She was just working as hard as possible to improve her language skills and then move on to doing what she was required for her to qualify as a pharmacist in her new country.

Overall, I would say the refugee may be paying taxes and self supporting much sooner. That is not to say that I don't support helping the homeless, I do.

 

[cabanafrau]

I am sure it isn't. But that still does not change the fact that if we can ignore those arguments to feed and house the refugees why can we not ignore them when it comes to taking care of our own citizens?

As I said in my first response, I was only addressing your comment about never hearing any pushback against our homeless.

My no doubt unpopular belief is that, like it or not, the reality is resources aren't infinite. It is absolutely a consideration when we have people in need in our own backyards and now there are others coming from far away, knocking on our door. Our country has long wrestled with the words firmly entrenched in our national consciousness (and conscience) as part and parcel with the symbol of welcome gifted us by our French cousins. Today that question brings with it the added baggage of fear that along with the tired, huddled masses we may be rolling out a welcome mat for those who wish to extinguish the liberties promised by that same lady proudly holding her torch aloft, announcing to all that here on these shores is a society committed to freedom for all under rule of law.

It's not a simple question. I pray we get it right for everyone's sake.

 

[eliza61]

Drone attacks aren't enough - that's exactly what Paris showed us.

If we don't turn up the heat, you won't have to send your kid to war - they'll bring the war to your kid.

ok, so again. what is "turn up the heat".

Invade syria? ok the couple is torn to hell anyway?
one of the terrorist was a syrian refugee, the other 8 were french? (I'm asking) so we invade France? let's see, then there is Africa, I'm sure the folks on that continent might just have a thing or two to say about us wanting to go in and invade various countries
Exactly what's the "turn up the heat" plan?

Here's the problem, while we are maybe the "richest" nation on the planet, there are no more "superpowers". like I said, this is no t wwII anymore.

Then in 10 years do we rinse and repeat. lol, people talk about SS going broke, can only imagine the cost of troops all over the place doing this.

do not get me wrong, I'm am in support of any and all plans to try and solve this problem but I'm not seeing what this "turn up on the heat"

 

[WIcruizer]

ok, so again. what is "turn up the heat".

For starters, we could take out their command and control center. What was the first target France took out" ISIS command and control center. Which begs the question, if everyone knew where it was, why was it still standing in the first place? So that would be a good place to start. Destroy known ISIS locations.

What really needs to happen is Muslim countries need to have boots on the ground. They also need to get more heavily involved in intelligence. That's happening already, yes, but that needs to be stepped up. Squeeze them financially. Also, now countries throughout Europe realize they need to get more involved. Whenever an ISIS member pops up somewhere take them out. Whether that's on the ground, a drone, missle, etc. I would like the US to lead all these efforts, but not do all the heavy lifting for once.

With all that said, the Imams and political leaders in the Muslim world need to get much more involved. If ISIS and ISIS sympathizers are really a very small minority, it should be relatively easy for the rest of the people to weed them out.

 

[taitai]

ok, so again. what is "turn up the heat".

Invade syria? ok the couple is torn to hell anyway?
one of the terrorist was a syrian refugee, the other 8 were french? (I'm asking) so we invade France? let's see, then there is Africa, I'm sure the folks on that continent might just have a thing or two to say about us wanting to go in and invade various countries
Exactly what's the "turn up the heat" plan?

Here's the problem, while we are maybe the "richest" nation on the planet, there are no more "superpowers". like I said, this is no t wwII anymore.

Then in 10 years do we rinse and repeat. lol, people talk about SS going broke, can only imagine the cost of troops all over the place doing this.

do not get me wrong, I'm am in support of any and all plans to try and solve this problem but I'm not seeing what this "turn up on the heat"

I agree. The US is already bombing ISIS and trying to cut off its money supply. I supppose all US citizens could stop driving cars and using the oil that they are selling to finance their terror. That would help kill them off. I read that they are making tens of millions each month selling oil. Everyone buy a Tesla if you want to stop ISIS.

Other than the bombing the US is already doing, and trying to cut off their finances, the only real "turn up the heat" option left is to invade Syria and other countries where ISIS is strong. Of course, that will take hundreds of thousands of troops and there is no exit strategy. It would be invade and conquer. It would need to be invade and conquer and occupy for h

 

[CPanther95]

ok, so again. what is "turn up the heat".

Invade syria? ok the couple is torn to hell anyway?
one of the terrorist was a syrian refugee, the other 8 were french? (I'm asking) so we invade France? let's see, then there is Africa, I'm sure the folks on that continent might just have a thing or two to say about us wanting to go in and invade various countries
Exactly what's the "turn up the heat" plan?

Here's the problem, while we are maybe the "richest" nation on the planet, there are no more "superpowers". like I said, this is no t wwII anymore.

do not get me wrong, I'm am in support of any and all plans to try and solve this problem but I'm not seeing what this "turn up on the heat"

You go where ever they are and kill them. I can't go into the many, many reasons it would be unwise to invade France, so just trust me that that would not be a good idea.

Any place where ISIS has land they are holding, we go in and take the land from their control. We wipe them out. We find a meeting place or mosque that is being used to recruit or perpetuate their terror, we level it. We don't sit back and watch them ride through the countryside acquiring more land and terrorizing locals into joining their ranks or facing death.

Sitting back and doing nothing but watching all these innocent people getting killed and/or run out of their own countries is abhorrent. Finding a place to live for the handful that survived is nothing for which we should be patting ourselves on the back. The truly humane thing is to step in and defend those who are unable to defend themselves - before they are killed or left homeless.

 

[eliza61]

I have never heard "the homeless veterans/families/children will harm us" that doesn't even make sense???? These homeless are our citizens. They are here in this country. How are they going to harm us? Do you really think all those not wanting to pay for our own people to be fed are going to want to feed the Syrian refugees? If they can be ignored for one, why not the other?

I have heard the We don't want the homeless in our neighborhood, many many times.
Some have used the excuse that they have mental health issues, some could be child predators on and on. try and get a 1/2 way house or homeless shelter up in a neighborhood and WATCH what happens.

Hell, they tried to open a Women's domestic abuse shelter near Temple. That got shot down quicker than snow melting in the Sahara. The premise was all those poor vulnerable Temple students could be in danger

this is the time for holiday food drives, philabundence has estimated 75000 people in philly that are "in need". I can't tell you how they struggle and the nasty grams they get (from idiots but they are there) just from trying to get donations for holiday meals.

 

[declansdad]

I know I'm late to respond (busy with my daughter and work last night...and the conversation has probably gone off in a totally different direction), but to put a handful of US-based Christian terrorist attacks (Army of God group, possibly the Olympic bomber) in the same league as this world-wide militant islamic extremist type of terrorism is just absurd. I'm not denying that there hasn't been a handful of US-based terrorists who are supposedly "Christian," but you certainly don't see world-wide panic about closing the extreme Christian terrorists. You just don't. Although I think it makes people with a certain world-view feel better about the state of things to lump them all together.

A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. You don't see the panic because there are a certain portion on the population that agree with the home-grown terrorist, not many people in the western world agree with ISIS.

Well, I live in Canada, so probably I'm a little biased, since we have so many social programs to help everybody, like welfare, unemployment insurance, universal health care, and I can go on and on. I'm pretty certain that nobody around here lives in a temporary shelter, kids are not sleeping in the cold, people get medical attention, have access to food banks, clean toilets and good hygiene, etc.

I live in a small city in Eastern Canada, there are people who live in tents and under bridges here. I arrived in Toronto this afternoon and in the span of 3 blocks I saw 3 people sleeping on the street.

 

[CPanther95]

The premise was all those poor vulnerable Temple students could be in danger

Go Owls!

 

[eliza61]

You go where ever they are and kill them. I can't go into the many, many reasons it would be unwise to invade France, so just trust me that that would not be a good idea.

Any place where ISIS has land they are holding, we go in and take the land from their control. We wipe them out. We find a meeting place or mosque that is being used to recruit or perpetuate their terror, we level it. We don't sit back and watch them ride through the countryside acquiring more land and terrorizing locals into joining their ranks or facing death.

Sitting back and doing nothing but watching all these innocent people getting killed and/or run out of their own countries is abhorrent. Finding a place to live for the handful that survived is nothing for which we should be patting ourselves on the back. The truly humane thing is to step in and defend those who are unable to defend themselves - before they are killed or left homeless.

I understand cpanther, It's just a very very hard situation. this isn't a "typical" enemy. As much as it sounds good, we can't just go in and "take" lands. they are countries. Syria is a country Al-Assad is already 1 fruitcake short of a holiday dessert. I can only imagine what he would set off if we tried to invade.

I just think these roaches are a totally different type of enemy. we may have to come up with very original solutions