Explosions and shootings in Paris

[kandb]

Why let radicals that are on a "watch list" stay in your country? It's time to start removing radicals from the countries they are in, once they leave to get radicalized and once they are put on a "watch list". It's ridiculous to sit around and wait to see when/if they are going to strike. Let them find another place to live, let them go back to their homeland.

 

[wilkeliza]

Why let radicals that are on a "watch list" stay in your country? It's time to start removing radicals from the countries they are in, once they leave to get radicalized and once they are put on a "watch list". It's ridiculous to sit around and wait to see when/if they are going to strike. Let them find another place to live, let them go back to their homeland.

Going back to their homeland isn't always a great plan because more and more recruits are from the country they attack. Where exactly would France have sent the radicalized French citizen back to?

 

[pat fan]

Going back to their homeland isn't always a great plan because more and more recruits are from the country they attack. Where exactly would France have sent the radicalized French citizen back to?

I think if someone leaves to go fight or get trained, they should have their passports revoked and they can't get back into their original country. We have them here in the states that have left and come back. It's INSANE! There was a proposal by a Congress-person to revoke them, but I'm pretty sure it never passed, sadly.

 

[kandb]

Going back to their homeland isn't always a great plan because more and more recruits are from the country they attack. Where exactly would France have sent the radicalized French citizen back to?

I am not sure where they should go, but should countries keep extremists in them, waiting for them to strike? And the cost of tracking these extremists is astronomical. Something needs to change and I hope someone can figure it out.

 

[TLSnell1981]

they should have their passports revoked and they can't get back into their original country.

Do they need passports to reenter?

 

[pat fan]

Do they need passports to reenter?

I believe if you are in a foreign country and need to get on a plane or cross a border, you have to show your passport to say "Hey, it's ok for me to enter XYZ because I live there". If it's revoked, it pops up that, "No, you are not ok to enter XYZ".

 

[TLSnell1981]

I believe if you are in a foreign country and need to get on a plane or cross a border, you have to show your passport to say "Hey, it's ok for me to enter XYZ because I live there". If it's revoked, it pops up that, "No, you are not ok to enter XYZ".

You need a passport to enter legally. I'm not sure, if watch lists are effective. The Parisian was known to authorities and had been arrested 8 times.

 

[pat fan]

You need a passport to enter legally.

Well yeah, I agree it does zip for entering illegally. The thing is, those who leave, get trained, then come back, I don't believe try and hide it, they just re-enter. Why hide it? Nothing is going to happen to them.

As for watch lists, I'm not sure how effective they are, but you gotta start somewhere.

 

[wilkeliza]

All of this is a very fine line that I hope someone in power figures out.

I don't have the answers but I know we have to make sure we don't go too far. Mostly because if the knee jerk reaction is like it was in WW II and even after 9/11 then my fiance's family could get caught up in it simply because they are Syrian.

 

[manning]

Let's look at history, which by the way isn't taught anymore, in the beginning we gave Hitler everything he wanted. What did this give us? World War Two.

Also a weak military. We got caught with our pants down.

The only way we are going to defeat ISIS is to totally destroy them.

 

[pat fan]

I don't have the answers but I know we have to make sure we don't go too far. Mostly because if the knee jerk reaction is like it was in WW II and even after 9/11 then my fiance's family could get caught up in it simply because they are Syrian.

I don't think anyone is "against" a certain nationality, just as the attackers here on 9/11 were different nationalities, so were these in Paris. It's the ideological mindset that we are at war against, whether anyone wants to admit that or not.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I dont know how to say this. And I'm certainly no expert here. And not trying to be partisan or political, or place blame anywhere. Just mulling it over in my own head and wanted to put my thoughts here.

But today our leaders have to walk an incredibly fine line. We all want to be protected from this evil, yet we don't want to have knee jerk reactions or trample on any one else's rights in the process. (I guess there can be varying degrees of the latter.)

Today's jihadists are waging their war in large part electronically. In the past few weeks with the Russian plane bombing, we saw it play out. Some countries had reliable surveillance data and some didn't. Some were mad we didn't "share" what we knew. Some are questioning why France didn't know this was about to happen. Are the jihadist's methods getting more sophisiticated? Or was this one that was just missed? It's going to be hard to ask and answer these questions, no doubt, and many of us will disagree. Fortunately, here in the U.S. many of today's plots to kill have been foiled using intelligence data (despite the abilities being somewhat crippled by information breaches/leaks). Sadly, these are the times we live in today. Technology has become a double edged sword.

So, where do we go from here? ETA this is truly a global issue.

Thoughts?

 

[MickeySP]

View attachment 135234

While this is a lovely idealistic sentiment, don't think it will stop a bullet.

 

[kandb]

I dont know how to say this. And I'm certainly no expert here. And not trying to be partisan or political, or place blame anywhere. Just mulling it over in my own head and wanted to put my thoughts here.

But today our leaders have to walk an incredibly fine line. We all want to be protected from this evil, yet we don't want to have knee jerk reactions or trample on any one else's rights in the process. (I guess there can be varying degrees of the latter.)

Today's jihadists are waging their war in large part electronically. In the past few weeks with the Russian plane bombing, we saw it play out. Some countries had reliable surveillance data and some didn't. Some were mad we didn't "share" what we knew. Some are questioning why France didn't know this was about to happen. Are the jihadist's methods getting more sophisiticated? Or was this one that was just missed? It's going to be hard to ask and answer these questions, no doubt, and many of us will disagree. Fortunately, here in the U.S. many of today's plots to kill have been foiled using intelligence data (despite the abilities being somewhat crippled by information breaches/leaks). Sadly, these are the times we live in today. Technology has become a double edged sword.

So, where do we go from here? ETA this is truly a global issue.

Thoughts?

The bottom line is, if you keep any of these countries, including America, borders open and let foreigners in from the countries that breed these extremists, you are putting the country at risk. France pretty much had a no borders policy and they are the #1 target. Them welcoming refugees has now cost their country economically and with many lives and unfortunately, I don't think the carnage is over yet. I think countries have to stop worrying about being politically correct and worry about protecting their citizens.

 

[BadPinkTink]

The bottom line is, if you keep any of these countries, including America, borders open and let foreigners in from the countries that breed these extremists, you are putting the country at risk. France pretty much had a no borders policy and they are the #1 target. Them welcoming refugees has now cost their country economically and with many lives and unfortunately, I don't think the carnage is over yet. I think countries have to stop worrying about being politically correct and worry about protecting their citizens.

I need to clarify a few things in your post

France has an open border system because they are part of The Schengen Agreement, along with many other countries in Europe. Having open borders does not make them the #1 target. The attacks this weekend were because of their Military operations against ISIS in Syria and Iraq.

It has been confirmed that 1 of the attackers was born in Paris, another is from Serbia. They are not foreigners from countries who breed these extremists who crept into Europe as illegal refugees. ISIS is recruiting people who then go and bomb the Western cities they are born in.

 

[mom2rtk]

Having open borders does not make them the #1 target. The attacks this weekend were because of their Military operations against ISIS in Syria and Iraq.

I didn't know the investigation was complete.

 

[kandb]

PP-thank you for that info. Well obviously IS has to be exterminated, which everyone knows. Why haven't the other mid-east countries helped exterminating this group? Why is always the west that has to fight these extremist groups?

 

[kandb]

Just read breaking news, that a second shooter, entered the country as a "refugee". Time every country wakes up!

 

[BadPinkTink]

I didn't know the investigation was complete.

ISIS released a statement about 24 hours, claiming responsibility and saying WHY the targeted France
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...g-at-least-127-people-in-french-a6734546.html

In the statement they say that the Paris attacks were because of the bombing of ISIS in Syria

 

[mom2rtk]

ISIS released a statement about 24 hours, claiming responsibility and saying WHY the targeted France
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...g-at-least-127-people-in-french-a6734546.html

In the statement they say that the Paris attacks were because of the bombing of ISIS in Syria

I tend to view any statement from a group's "propaganda arm" with a grain of salt.

I'm sure the reasons are multi-faceted. And I'm assuming the investigation will indeed continue.