Experiences with Armour Thyroid?

[Friend of a Mouse]

My doctor put me on Armour and I'm curious what experiences people have had with it. I am titrating up to 30 mg twice daily. Last night I went from 15 to 30 mg and today felt just kind of blah. I felt hungrier than normal and also very tired ,but I don't know if it's the medicine or just a blah day. My doctor warned me it might make me feel weird when I increase the dosage.

 

[Imzadi]

I take Armour thyroid, too. I like it. I had to drop down in dosage as I went hyper and it caused trembling & rapid heartbeat.

Thyroid meds can take weeks to fully work. 30-60 mg is actually not very much if a dosage. Your Dr working you up to a higher dosage eventually.

Were you told that Armour thyroid should be crushed or chewed, then held under the tongue for a few minutes, to absorb sublingually under the tongue, before swallowing? There is coating on Armour Thyroid which makes it hard to digest and renders it less effective. This is one of the reasons doctors don't prescribe it as much. They think it is less effective than Synthroid and the like. They don't know about the need to crush or chew.

The Yahoo group below is geared more toward using Armour Thyroid instead of Synthroid, although many people have been on both and ended up switching to Armour. It contains both T3 & T4. The body is supposed to naturally convert T4 to T3. But, some people can't do that. Taking more T4 Synthroid & the synthetics) don't help.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormones/

 

[Friend of a Mouse]

Thanks for the info! I will ask about the need to crush/chew when I go in for my nutritionist appointment next week.

The T3 issue is why she prescribed it over synthroid. I have been tested for thyroid problems I don't know how many times in the last few years and they all came back fine. This integrative medicine doc I am seeing did a T3 free/T3 reverse test. What she found was that while my T4 and TSH were all in the reference ranges, my T3 ratios were off. Both were within the reference range but instead of being a ration of 15-20, it was a ratio of 10. It was nice to know why I am having thyroid symptoms even though the tests always came back fine.

 

[Imzadi]

Thanks for the info! I will ask about the need to crush/chew when I go in for my nutritionist appointment next week.

The T3 issue is why she prescribed it over synthroid. I have been tested for thyroid problems I don't know how many times in the last few years and they all came back fine. This integrative medicine doc I am seeing did a T3 free/T3 reverse test. What she found was that while my T4 and TSH were all in the reference ranges, my T3 ratios were off. Both were within the reference range but instead of being a ration of 15-20, it was a ratio of 10. It was nice to know why I am having thyroid symptoms even though the tests always came back fine.

Yes, the free T3 test is actually the most important test to take. It shows how much free unbound T3 is in your system, which is where you get all your energy and everything else from.

Many regular endos & GPs don't test the T3. Sounds like you finally have a good doctor.

The reason a coating has been put on Armour thyroid is that when Synthroid was made and got FDA approval, the FDA forced Armour thyroid to put on a coating, which renders it less effective. Armour thyroid is a natural hormone, not synthetic & not created by pharmaceutical company. It was around for decades before any of the synthetics came about. There is a whole history about Armour thyroid & the FDA trying to get rid of it, so that only synthetics made by pharmaceutical companies can make money instead. That's why most doctors don't prescribe it. They either don't know about it, or because the it doesn't have FDA approval, (it was around way before the FDA.)

 

[Hisgirl]

I know this is an old thread but I'd like to bring it up so we can talk about Armour again. I just had a total thyroidectomy. Nodules that were benign. I request armour and am starting on a base dose of 60ish and so far so good. I know it takes time to know and I know it will be tweaked. I'm curious about the coating comment.
Many pills have coatings and the acid in our stomachs dissolve the coating. It's not an issue. Why would someone think a coating wouldn't dissolve when 1000s of pills use it. I"m just curious about where you heard this and what the basis was.

Sublingual absorption can be good for things like bio identical hormones but I've yet to hear this about armour.

Just looking for more info. Thanks!

 

[DeniseJH]

Not trying to start an argument, just wanting to make people aware that both the American and British Thyroid Societies advice against the use of desiccated thyroid. In part, because the ratio of T4 to T3 in pigs is not the same as in humans, and each batch varies in it's levels of T3 and T4. For me, the possibility of zoonotic diseases has also been a deterrent. If it works for you, great!, but I believe everyone should be aware.

 

[Southernmiss]

So many practitioners do not understand the thyroid and only rely on synthroid. I tried out a new endocrinologist who only believed in synthroid. As a thyroid patient for 30 years, I knew he wasn't for me.

I have many potentially debilitating symptoms when I only take synthroid. I take desiccated natural supplements through a functional medicine doc. Have never felt better and have been reducing the amount of prescribed synthroid with each blood test.

Do what makes you feel good and healthy.

And I believe some of our traditional med docs and societies are either in the pocket of pharma or don't understand who and what they are treating.

 

[Imzadi]

I know it takes time to know and I know it will be tweaked. I'm curious about the coating comment.
Many pills have coatings and the acid in our stomachs dissolve the coating. It's not an issue. Why would someone think a coating wouldn't dissolve when 1000s of pills use it. I"m just curious about where you heard this and what the basis was.

It has been a long time since this thread. Let me think if I can remember what I read. .

If you have the full directions for taking Armour Thyroid, it should say on the bottle, "Take first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with a full glass of water." The reasoning for that is that you don't want it sitting in your stomach a long time, on top of food. On an empty stomach, the glass of water is supposed to help push it through your system down where it can be absorbed easier. Also don't eat for 45 min to an hour after taking it. And don't have it with coffee as that can affect it's effectiveness. Unless you will be doing that every morning as part of your routine. Then your Dr. can tweak your meds with that as your routine.

Not sure if my vocabulary is right or I have the conditions described accurately. Sorry, but you can Google for more precise info on what I'm saying to read up on more. Many people who have thyroid problems also have problems with gluten - and/or have a "leaky gut" which is what people with Celiac disease have. "Leaky gut" causes digestion & absorption problems in the gut.

From what I remember, that's one of the reasons why Armour Thyroid should be taken on an empty stomach and with a lot of water to get it to pass down to the lower intestines where it can be absorbed better. With the coating, it's not going to dissolve easily down there. Crushed or chewed up and with all the water, it's going to go where it can be absorbed better.

As for crushing & holding it under the tongue, people had differing opinions. Some people swear by it. Some scientists said the particles/molecules are too big to be absorbed sublingually. That it was the crushing and dissolving of it so it can get to the lower intestines easier, is what made the difference. NOT that it was being absorbed sublingually.

I used to crush it all the time as I know I have a leaky gut.

But, my previous post was written back in 2012. In 2015 I got the fantastic integrative medicine Dr. I have now. He was recommended by Mary Shoman, a thyroid advocate & author of thyroid books as well as having hypothyroidism herself. She, herself, said she takes a combo of Cytomel & Naturthoid. She came here to do a seminar, and he came towards the end to meet us afterward. He starts out seeming more expensive than other doctors. He routinely does blood tests for about 12 different blood tests. In the beginning it was the FULL thyroid panel, which alone is about 9 different thyroid tests: TSH, T4, Free T4, T3, Free T3, Reverse T3, Anti-Thyroglobulin, Anti-TPO. It was until he was able to localize what my thyroid problem was and what all the levels were exactly that he cut down on some of those tests. He also did an AM cortisol test. He didn't just label me as just "hypothyroid" and prescribe Synthroid and was done.

He also routinely tests me for Ferritin/Iron, Hemoglobin, B12/Folate, Vit D, DHEA, a full Comp Metabolic blood test and a few other things I don't know what they mean.

When I first came to him, I was so depleted in pretty much everything, even while on Armour Thyroid, because I didn't have a good Dr. diagnosing all the other stuff. He found that I had severe adrenal exhaustion, was severely anemic due to too heavy periods caused by fibroids - caused by the thyroid problem, was severely low on Vit D (from laying in bed all the time, getting no sun,) and had a systemic Candida yeast infection throughout my system (due to an antibiotic I took a few years back.) No wonder my gut and sinuses were out of whack. And why, even though I was taking Armour, it wasn't enough. My body had a cascade failure, mostly all interrelated. Any ONE of those illnesses causes depression and or brain fog and low energy. I had them all TOGETHER.

By studying my Free T3 and Reverse T3, and how much T4 was still in my body, he realized my body wasn't converting the T4 I was getting in the Armour to T3. Thank God for what little T3 I did have in the Armour. (When a different quack I saw for 2 visits before this doctor, took me totally OFF Armour for Synthroid, and I was getting NO T3, only T4, and crashed so badly & was was suffering real clinical depression, he told me it was all in my head. And I should see a psychologist. The Synthroid he prescribed wasn't the problem. The only thing GOOD this quack did, was make me finally resolve to go to the Dr. I have now, even though insurance doesn't pay for him and most of the tests. I realized I lost too many years of my life in bed and visiting endos & GPs who don't know what they are doing, that the money "saved" going to quacks wasn't worth it. That's what I mean that my Dr. now seemed more expensive.)

My current Dr. took me off Armour also, in the beginning. Instead, he started me out on a very low dose of only synthetic T3 Slow Release (Cytomel,) that I have to get specially compounded by a pharmacy as the manufactured version of Cytomel isn't the slow/sustained release formula. (Insurance doesn't pay for it.) He warned me that I would crash in a few days as the Armour left my system and that the T3 S.R. would take a few weeks time to build up. AND we needed to wait for my adrenals to heal a bit. THEN he would start tweaking. Within a few weeks, I was already feeling the difference. He had also recommended some adrenal supplements for the adrenal exhaustion. And he made me take Iron & Vit. D. The only thing that was the right levels was my Vit B12, which I had known to take.
I had more energy within a few weeks, than I had in the 8 years I had hypothyroidism. I thought if I have only that much more energy for the rest of my life, it would be enough.

But, within, I think 1 month, he upped the T3 S.R. Then 3 months after that, upped the dosage some more. Then another 3 months, he added in a low dosage of Armour Thyroid (with the T3 S.R.) as my T4 was a bit off AND he was still raising & tweaking the T3. AND he was watching my anemia and my Vit D levels that STILL were both too low. And I was still having Candida issues, as it is next to impossible to get rid of.

Every time he'd raise my meds and I felt the new burst of energy, I'd over-schedule myself and crash really hard and it would take weeks to recover. He lectured me to slow down! That it would take much more time.

BTW, I still crush & chew it into bits with my teeth before swallowing it with a full glass of water. Still don't know if it makes any sort of difference.

Then we had to back off on the T3 for a bit as I was having heart palpitations. But, it turned out to be the adrenal supplements. I swapped those out to something that didn't have extra added stimulants like ginseng. And since my T3 and T4 were both still low, he raised both of them.

At one point, I had too high iron as my periods & fibroids stopped. Since he was continually monitoring my iron, he told me to knock off the iron supplements. After a good 8 months or so, I finally had a good Vit D level. And I finally got rid of the Candida. Then I had more problems with more heart palpitations and I thought I'd have to back off both meds again, but after he heard the symptoms and checked my blood tests, he asked if I was taking magnesium. Nope. So he ordered me to take that - and he wouldn't lower my dosage of Armour or T3, even though I was quite worried about the heart palpitations. But, he told me, my T3 & T4 weren't too high.

He was right. Within a week of taking the magnesium, my heart palpitations went away. I'm pretty sure, any other Dr, who doesn't do the amount of tests & monitoring he does, would have immediately concluded the thyroid meds were too high and have lowered my dosages. AND I'd be back to laying in bed with no energy and no life.

Instead, I've been on the same "cocktail" of Armour Thyroid in the AM, followed by my adrenal supplement a few hours later, and in the early evening, I take the T3 S.R. and I have energy throughout the day into evening. I no longer have the brain fog, memory problems, word aphasia, depression or extreme exhaustion that that I had when things were at their worst. This past year, year 3 with this doctor, is FINALLY the first time, not only am I able to work a full "40 hour work week," (even though I don't have a corporate job,) but "overtime" hours as well AND have a life after working. I've actually been really pushing things, trying to see what it would take to make me crash again. (Within reason, of course.) I've been doing really well. I haven't hit a crash point yet, and I'm doing enough of my life again, that I'm not going to push it beyond this level.

I'm back out, living life again, back out in the world.

This last visit was the first time I finally shared with my Dr. how afraid I'd been, that I'd never have this much energy to take care of myself when I get to be really elderly. Now, I know I will be able to.

He was really surprised. He asked me, "Why did you doubt it?"

I said, "Because it took so long to get here."


My advice to you, Hisgirl, is to keep visiting different doctors if you have to, to find the right one that works for YOU. Know that it will take time to get the meds up to the right levels for your body. But, there is a difference in not being at the right levels yet vs, not being on the right meds or being with the right doctor. Find YOUR right doctor. (S)He is out there.

 

[Imzadi]

Not trying to start an argument, just wanting to make people aware that both the American and British Thyroid Societies advice against the use of desiccated thyroid. In part, because the ratio of T4 to T3 in pigs is not the same as in humans, and each batch varies in it's levels of T3 and T4. For me, the possibility of zoonotic diseases has also been a deterrent. If it works for you, great!, but I believe everyone should be aware.

Well that is a scare tactic I hadn't heard before.

And I believe some of our traditional med docs and societies are either in the pocket of pharma or don't understand who and what they are treating.

Yes, I believe that pharmaceuticals came up with that scare tactic for patients who don't know how one actually gets treated.

I don't know about the U.K. In the U.S., Armour Thyroid has to be prescribed by a professional, legit doctor. One can't buy it over the counter, like vitamin supplements. Unless one has a doctor like the singer, Michael Jackson had, who just prescribes meds without constant monitoring, but just writes & refills prescriptions, a GOOD doctor who knows what he is doing will be monitoring the levels of T3 & T4 and tweaking BOTH levels to get them right for each patient. They aren't treating pigs, so those levels may not be appropriate. They are treating and prescribing proper dosages according to the blood test levels in each patient. As I said, I'm on T3 and Armour (with both T4 and T3.)

I described in my last, quite lengthy post how MANY tests my Dr. routinely runs every 4 months. It's been an absolute pain in my butt & pocketbook to go that often. But he monitors & tweaked meds for my condition several times, for a few ailments. And I have my life back.

The quack Dr. that I also wrote about who previously took me off Armour, had said word for word what I'm sure the Synthroid pharma told him to recite. "That there's no way to properly monitor how much T3 & T4 is in the desiccated thyroid is in each tablet or from batch to batch. So, I'd be treated inconsistently, instead of with a synthetic drug like Synthroid."

As though the Armour Thyroid company makes this product in a shed in the back yard and doesn't have the latest technologies & equipment like microscopes, digital scales and whatever else, like companies that make natural vitamins have to calculate and monitor how much is in each tablet of Vitamin C and that they are consistent batch to batch.

As for zoonotic diseases, (I had to Google what that even is.) I would think the Armour company, KNOWING it is raising some of the animals for meds, are being fastidious as to what pathogens the pigs could come in contact with. Pigs, in general in the U.S., raised to be slaughtered by large manufacturers usually aren't "free-range" animals. They are often raised in really bad, tight conditions and never see outdoors, let alone out of the pens they are kept in. And again, they have microscopes to look for pathogens. I would think somebody is in charge of quality control & safety.

As for the adrenal supplements I take, they are harvested in New Zealand. An island that has no Mad Cow Disease.

But, pharma will do anything to make the "natural drugs & supplements" companies sound like hicks with low IQ and wipe out the competition.

 

[DeniseJH]

Sorry if I shared something that was outdated. (The ATA and BTA are still against desiccated thyroid, for whatever reason.) These are things I was aware of when I was first diagnosed hypothyroid. I haven't has a discussion with my Endo about Armour, but maybe I should!

 

[Christine]

Sorry if I shared something that was outdated. (The ATA and BTA are still against desiccated thyroid, for whatever reason.) These are things I was aware of when I was first diagnosed hypothyroid. I haven't has a discussion with my Endo about Armour, but maybe I should!

Me endo is not opposed to Armour; however, for a thyroid cancer patient, T4 levels have to be extremely precise in order to keep suppression consistent. With bovine hormones they can do their best to get what they think is a stable dosage in the pill itself, but it's no guarantee. This is not a big deal for people who already have *some* functioning thyroid left. It becomes a bigger deal if you are using T4 as part of your thyroid cancer suppression. Even some other synthetic T4 brands, as well as generics, have been found to be "iffy" on consistency. Synthroid, Unithroid, and Levoxyl have passed rigorous testing to ensure stability pill for pill for pill for pill...other drugs don't quite do it.

My endo is not one that turns his nose up at Armour and he does prescribe it to some patients who don't require the stringency.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I took armour for awhile, but honestly, i found it difficult to keep up with. My endo advised me split my dose up into twice a day since armour has a much shorter half life than synthroid. I have a crazy schedule and my work days are unpredictable, so fitting in my dose and hour before eating 2x a day stressed me out. I switched back to synthroid but take only the name brand.

 

[mckennarose]

......

And I believe some of our traditional med docs and societies are either in the pocket of pharma or don't understand who and what they are treating.

Bingo!!! Since synthetic thyroid meds became available and doctors stopped relying so much on natural desiccated products they don't even teach about how to properly dose natural desiccated thyroid in school. It's sad how some doctors won't even look into learning how to dose properly be cause it seems easier and "safer?" To use synthetic. A new endocrinologist moved into our town a while ago and I called to see if she prescribed natural desiccated and I was told by the nurse that "doctor NEVER prescribes natural desiccated to patients!" I assumed that because she was a newer, younger doctor that she would be up on the latest information and research, but no. I was looking for a new endo closer to home.

I have been on natural desiccated thyroid for eight years after a total thyroidectomy. I initially started on Armour but after some reformulation issues and the rising cost of it I switched to Nature-Throid and have been on it for the past three years. I dose twice a day and chew my tablets so they dissolve and absorb faster.

Natural thyroid is not dangerous or inconsistent in thyroid content. The manufacturers are not guessing the amount of t3 and t4 in each pill, they are accurately measured and created in labs. This is a standardized product.

From what I have seen in the past eight years and my experiences with doctors, it takes more effort on the doctor's part to help the patient dose properly. Some doctors simply don't have the time to work closely with the patient or don't want to. They feel it's much easier to look at a Synthroid dose chart and give everyone the same cookie-cutter dose based on weight, size, and a T4 level only blood test. That's one of the reasons why I only go to DO's and not MD's. DO's have a "whole body" approach to medicine where as MDs tend to diagnose and medicate based on one system or issue of the body.

 

[Hisgirl]

Honestly, reading yall's responses reminds me that this is going to be a 'journey' and I need to strap myself in and not have super high expectations of this being a perfect science too soon.

My doctor is an ivy-leagued educated. top endocrinologist, and he is who, according to my primary care doc, ' a doctor goes to see if he need an endo doctor' and he said he was fine with whatever I wanted to do regarding synthroid OR NDT. I was kinda shocked. So I'm starting on Armour.

A few years back there was a controlled double-blind study where thyroid patients compared synthroid to NDT. They found the patients preferred the NDT and it was recommended as a viable alternative to the Endocrinologist yearly conference.

And I know there is a 'quack watch' site where it is recommended to avoid any doctor who will recommend it because he/she is obviously not wise or with good judgment. Funny knowing how respected my endo is that he would print that.

Big Sigh.... Oh, well....here I go. The journey begins. With prayer, plenty of rest, my happy dogs and family/friend support and some good tv shows, I'll get through this eventually!

 

[Imzadi]

Sorry if I shared something that was outdated. (The ATA and BTA are still against desiccated thyroid, for whatever reason.) These are things I was aware of when I was first diagnosed hypothyroid. I haven't has a discussion with my Endo about Armour, but maybe I should!

Sorry, reading my post over, it came out with the wrong tone. One that wasn't directed at YOU. You aren't sharing info outdated. More, a view put out by the synthetic pharmaceutical companies. One that they still back (naturally as they make the products.) One they believe in and teach to doctors too.

If anything, they are the ones that say natural thyroid is outdated, antiquated, made some old fashioned way, like back in the 1800's, without the use of precision instruments we have today, like microscopes I more accurate measuring devices.

Bingo!!! Since synthetic thyroid meds became available and doctors stopped relying so much on natural desiccated products they don't even teach about how to properly dose natural desiccated thyroid in school. It's sad how some doctors won't even look into learning how to dose properly be cause it seems easier and "safer?" To use synthetic.

Natural thyroid is not dangerous or inconsistent in thyroid content. The manufacturers are not guessing the amount of t3 and t4 in each pill, they are accurately measured and created in labs. This is a standardized product.

Yes! You said it so much better than me. I wish I could blame that on brain fog. But, my brain is working so much better now than before.

From what I have seen in the past eight years and my experiences with doctors, it takes more effort on the doctor's part to help the patient dose properly. Some doctors simply don't have the time to work closely with the patient or don't want to. They feel it's much easier to look at a Synthroid dose chart and give everyone the same cookie-cutter dose based on weight, size, and a T4 level only blood test.

Yes. The way I take my "cocktail" of meds throughout the day, I came up with, after experimenting around. My Dr. prescribed the two meds & strongly recommended an adrenal supplement as I was crashing so much. (Yes, I was partly to blame, as I was hoping/expecting to have energy back faster and was so over-eager to get back the life I lost laying in bed for too long.)

The way my Dr. prescribed them, he originally said to take them all at once in the morning. But, that caused heart palpitations. Since he had started by prescribing the T3 S.R. first, I used to take that in the morning. Then I spaced out the other two to later in the day and separately. (I learned to do that from reading forums where other people spaced them out.) But, then I'd be up all night - having more of the energy that I wanted during the day. So I switched to taking the Armour first thing in the AM, and then the other two spaced out. THAT combo works best for ME.

If I had stuck to taking all three at once, or even only the Armour & T3 together, and had the heart palpitations I was having. A "regular" Dr. probably would have told me I was being prescribed too much and simply cut back. Then I'd be laying in bed again. Thinking my own body can't tolerate that much thyroid meds.

 

[Imzadi]

Not trying to start an argument, just wanting to make people aware that both the American and British Thyroid Societies advice against the use of desiccated thyroid. In part, because the ratio of T4 to T3 in pigs is not the same as in humans, and each batch varies in it's levels of T3 and T4.

Some doctors simply don't have the time to work closely with the patient or don't want to. They feel it's much easier to look at a Synthroid dose chart and give everyone the same cookie-cutter dose based on weight, size, and a T4 level only blood test.

Denise, I'm not picking on you. Really! Just what pharma has said. But look at the lack of logic in what they say. We need both T4 & T3 in varying degrees. In an ideal world, we could be given just T4 and our thyroid should be able to convert it into the T3 we need.

. . . But, our thyroid is where the problem is. If it can't create T4, then it may not be able to convert it to T3 either.

I get what you are saying, that they say, "The ratio of T4 to T3 in pigs is not the same as in humans." But, how is giving everyone ONE blanket pill of only T4 for everyone better?

My body doesn't convert T4 well. When I was only prescribed Synthroid by a quack who told me my problems & depression were all in my head, that was when I was at my worst. My own blood lab results proved it later when I got my now Dr. who tested the unbound Free T3 and Reverse T3 in my blood. But, most Drs. & endos only do the TSH (T4) test, as they've been trained by pharma that is all that is needed.

BTW, my Dr. gives me ALL the lab results each visit. So I can monitor along with him what my levels for each test are, if they go up or down, etc. He is very transparent about how he works and what my levels are and if they are in range or low. etc.

 

[Imzadi]

My doctor is an ivy-leagued educated. top endocrinologist, and he is who, according to my primary care doc, ' a doctor goes to see if he need an endo doctor' and he said he was fine with whatever I wanted to do regarding synthroid OR NDT. I was kinda shocked. So I'm starting on Armour.

An endo can be a top endo, yet STILL not be up on how to work with natural thyroid meds. Mary Shomon, the author I mentioned earlier, said the problem is they are overworked and slammed with patients. Most people don't die of hypothyroidism. We just sleep our lives away. Most endos focus is on the illnesses like diabetes, which can cause blindness, amputations & death if not properly regulated. So, when they have time to read the stack of the latest medical journals, they usually read up on the advances for the deadly diseases they specialize in, not pesky thyroid problems that aren't deadly.

Since pharma for Synthroid & synthetics tell them that it's a cure all for all thyroid problems, they can check it off their list and move on to researching the deadly diseases.

 

[Imzadi]

And I know there is a 'quack watch' site where it is recommended to avoid any doctor who will recommend it because he/she is obviously not wise or with good judgment. Funny knowing how respected my endo is that he would print that.

The quack doctor I went to actually got fired or "let go" from the group office he was at. (The 2 receptionists & the phlebotomist all saw me crying as I was leaving. From their looks to each other, they knew it wasn't because I received a bad diagnosis, but because of how I was treated by this quack.) He actually said to me, "I prescribed you with Synthroid that is right for your height & weight. You are on the right drug and the right amount. It IS working. Your problems are in your head. If you are so depressed, you need to be seeing a psychologist for that."

I was so brain foggy, physically & emotionally weak and depressed as he was saying this, that I didn't realize till after I left, that I had joined the "club" of all the women, whose posts I read on the various natural thyroid forums, who ALSO were told it's all in their heads. To go home and stop complaining. And if they needed to talk & complain, to go to a psychologist. My quack turned out to be a classic textbook example of the kind of Dr. I was warned about.

His former group office sent me a letter some 8 mo to a year later, telling me he was gone. That they still have my medical records and would I like to come back and try someone else?

Uh, NO. They are the ones who lacked the judgement to hire him in the first place. WHY would I go back there?

 

[mckennarose]

Sorry, reading my post over, it came out with the wrong tone. One that wasn't directed at YOU. You aren't sharing info outdated. More, a view put out by the synthetic pharmaceutical companies. One that they still back (naturally as they make the products.) One they believe in and teach to doctors too....

I'm not trying to pick at someone either, I hope it didn't come across as that way.

Yes! You said it so much better than me. I wish I could blame that on brain fog. But, my brain is working so much better now than before.

Lol!

Yes. The way I take my "cocktail" of meds throughout the day, I came up with, after experimenting around. My Dr. prescribed the two meds & strongly recommended an adrenal supplement as I was crashing so much. (Yes, I was partly to blame, as I was hoping/expecting to have energy back faster and was so over-eager to get back the life I lost laying in bed for too long.)

The way my Dr. prescribed them, he originally said to take them all at once in the morning. But, that caused heart palpitations. Since he had started by prescribing the T3 S.R. first, I used to take that in the morning. Then I spaced out the other two to later in the day and separately. (I learned to do that from reading forums where other people spaced them out.) But, then I'd be up all night - having more of the energy that I wanted during the day. So I switched to taking the Armour first thing in the AM, and then the other two spaced out. THAT combo works best for ME.

If I had stuck to taking all three at once, or even only the Armour & T3 together, and had the heart palpitations I was having. A "regular" Dr. probably would have told me I was being prescribed too much and simply cut back. Then I'd be laying in bed again. Thinking my own body can't tolerate that much thyroid meds.

It really is trial and error until you find a good balance of how to take it. I have heard of people taking it as prescribed (full dose in the AM) and then the person gets slammed by the T3 and thinks the med is to blame. Multi dosing during the day softens the T3 effect and is more like how your thyroid would naturally release hormone. Not in one massive dump of T3!

Denise, I'm not picking on you. Really! Just what pharma has said. But look at the lack of logic in what they say. We need both T4 & T3 in varying degrees. In an ideal world, we could be given just T4 and our thyroid should be able to convert it into the T3 we need.

. . . But, our thyroid is where the problem is. If it can't create T4, then it may not be able to convert it to T3 either.

I get what you are saying, that they say, "The ratio of T4 to T3 in pigs is not the same as in humans." But, how is giving everyone ONE blanket pill of only T4 for everyone better?

It's true that porcine thyroid is different than humans, however the amounts of T3 and T4 in Armour, Nature-throid, etc are controlled and standardized. It's the fact that porcine thyroid has the same type of hormones as humans (other animals do too, like rabbits). T1, T2, T3, T4 and calcitonin are all found in human and porcine thyroids, so a T4 only medicine (synthroid, generic levothyroxine, etc) are not an adequate replacement. The other T's and calcitonin are not well studied or understood, but it's thought they have a role and are important for everything to work together.

My body doesn't convert T4 well. When I was only prescribed Synthroid by a quack who told me my problems & depression were all in my head, that was when I was at my worst. My own blood lab results proved it later when I got my now Dr. who tested the unbound Free T3 and Reverse T3 in my blood. But, most Drs. & endos only do the TSH (T4) test, as they've been trained by pharma that is all that is needed.

Yes, and doctor's only do TSH and T4, and not even a Free T4. Everyone on natural desiccated thyroid needs to have TSH, Free T3 and Free T4 done each time. If you have issues with RT3, that's important to monitor too. My RT3 is good. My TSH is non existent due to the T3 in Naturethroid so if a doctor only monitored that I would look hyper thyroid all the time. T3 medicines naturally suppress TSH (TSH is a pituitary hormone, NOT a thyroid hormone as some people may not know). The actual thyroid hormones are the Free T's.
Funny story.... My TSH is always super low, but my actual thyroid levels are good, but at least twice now my doctor's office got my results and they were read by a nurse who flipped when she saw my low TSH and called me and told me to immediately stop my meds because I was hyper. I have to explain to them that I am not a typical synthroid patient and to talk to the doctor and look at my actual thyroid levels (FT3 and FT4) and NOT the pituitary hormone.

BTW, my Dr. gives me ALL the lab results each visit. So I can monitor along with him what my levels for each test are, if they go up or down, etc. He is very transparent about how he works and what my levels are and if they are in range or low. etc.

I get my lab reports before I see my doctor so we can go over them together and adjust accordingly.

 

[mckennarose]

I know this is an old thread but I'd like to bring it up so we can talk about Armour again. I just had a total thyroidectomy. Nodules that were benign. I request armour and am starting on a base dose of 60ish and so far so good. I know it takes time to know and I know it will be tweaked. I'm curious about the coating comment.
Many pills have coatings and the acid in our stomachs dissolve the coating. It's not an issue. Why would someone think a coating wouldn't dissolve when 1000s of pills use it. I"m just curious about where you heard this and what the basis was.

Sublingual absorption can be good for things like bio identical hormones but I've yet to hear this about armour.

Just looking for more info. Thanks!

When I first started Armour 8 years ago, the pill formulation was a bit different and they were much softer. People did dissolve the tablets sublingualy. The reformulation made the pills harder and not easy to dissolve, which is why I chew mine. I did it with Armour and now Nature-throid. It's about breaking down the fillers and stabilizers.

Honestly, reading yall's responses reminds me that this is going to be a 'journey' and I need to strap myself in and not have super high expectations of this being a perfect science too soon.

My doctor is an ivy-leagued educated. top endocrinologist, and he is who, according to my primary care doc, ' a doctor goes to see if he need an endo doctor' and he said he was fine with whatever I wanted to do regarding synthroid OR NDT. I was kinda shocked. So I'm starting on Armour.

A few years back there was a controlled double-blind study where thyroid patients compared synthroid to NDT. They found the patients preferred the NDT and it was recommended as a viable alternative to the Endocrinologist yearly conference.

And I know there is a 'quack watch' site where it is recommended to avoid any doctor who will recommend it because he/she is obviously not wise or with good judgment. Funny knowing how respected my endo is that he would print that.

Big Sigh.... Oh, well....here I go. The journey begins. With prayer, plenty of rest, my happy dogs and family/friend support and some good tv shows, I'll get through this eventually!

It is a journey and there is a learning curve. Don't get discouraged if it takes some time to get the dose right. I still need adjustments from time to time. Just make sure your doc runs all the right tests.

For the thyroidectomy itself I'll pass on some advice that I hope is helpful..... once your skin is closed and healed some, massaging the scar will help to break down scar tissue and prevent keloids from forming. Silicone scar sheets are a product I used and swear by! Plastic surgeons use them to prevent visible scars. Maderma does nothing, other than helping to massage the area. And wear sunblock on it for at least the first year so you don't get hyper pigmentation of the scar area.

Good luck! The surgery is hard, but after the first month or so your body will start to adjust.