Escape from Mayo Clinic

[Shanti]

I don't see how the article is one sided. It seems CNN reached out to Mayo Clinic. It seems like they spoke to the authorities.

This. You can't refuse to tell your side of the story, and then complain that the story being told is one-sided. You can't eat your cake and have it, too.

 

[sunshinehighway]

They repeat that the story lacks clarification but refuse to provide it. I won’t dispute that the story is very lopsided but as has been pointed out multiple times they attempted to gain guardianship and were denied TWICE. The whole family could be batcrap crazy but they had no evidence of that. The girl wanted to leave and they would not let her. It doesn’t matter if their intentions were good, they still kept her against her will.

Yup. That response is full of buzz words and phrases to get people thinking certain things (fake news) but it doesn't actually clarify anything.
They've been given permission so they can't hide behind that excuse. It says a lot that they are pretending to take the high road while letting out enough to bash the other parties involved. If you're going to take the "high road" then do that and just say you have no comment, if you want to defend yourself then do that. Don't be sanctimonious and claim to take the "high road" but say enough to call everyone else liars.
Even if the family are a bunch of nuts (which I doubt), nuts have rights. They couldn't get a court to take away those rights so that's it. They had no right to force anything on that woman and had no right to call her leaving an "abduction" and involve the police. All they should be doing is apologizing for their part in the situation getting so out of hand

 

[gotomu212]

The other thing that bothers me is that as a legal adult you’re allowed to make bad medical decisions. A hospital can say you have x and if not treated you will diebut here take this treatment and 99.9% you’ll recover, and you can illogically say “nope I’m going to follow the Rainbow Shamim of Neptune and eat four leaf clovers for my treatment”. The staff can be frustrated and upset but it’s still your decision to make. Making a bad decision isn’t the same thing as lacking the competency to make a decision.

Saying we do what is in the best interest of the patient repeatedly makes it sound like they think THEY get to decide what you do.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Mayo's response. https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/...tient-story-published-by-cnn/?linkId=55599957

Thanks for posting that. And don't take my slamming Mayo as a slam on you. All I can say is wow! How could a group like Mayo that is supposed to consist of our best and brightest put out such nonsense? They think we're stupid. They are mistaken. That isn't their side of the story of what actually happened. It's nothing more than a vaguely worded hit piece. They gave their side of the story to several neutral parties in more than one county and all of those neutral parties did not uphold their position.

I like this one. “We chose not to be interviewed by CNN for the story because doing so would bring negative publicity to a vulnerable adult in a suspected abusive family environment,” says Charles (Michel) Harper, M.D., executive dean for practice, Mayo Clinic. “It’s a heartbreaking situation. And, as caregivers, we believe our role is to protect our patient’s well-being and safety.

What a load of rubbish. The former patient is now doing well, graduated high school and will be off to college. There is virtually nothing they can say that would hurt their former patient's well being. Permission was given so that they could talk and a form signed to the effect at Mayo's request. They got their bluff called and predictably clammed up. The real reason they refused the interview is they know their spin is full of more holes than swiss cheese and wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[cruiser21]

I would guess that the very first step necessary in this type of situation must be for the hospital to request a qualified and acceptable mental health evaluation.
I believe that this can be done if it can be shown that the person could be a threat to their own well being, or the well being of those around them.
A court ordered and mandatory evaluation. Mayo should have the staff, right there, on site, to handle this.

Some doctor or hospital staff can't just say, this person is unfit, and we are taking custody.
That is ludicrous.
Which is probably why all legal and medical persons who have weighed in have backed up this young adult and their family.

The necessary process was not observed, and it was simply not legal for the hospital to hold this person against their will. This young adult has the right to refuse care and walk out.
And, that seems to be exactly what happened in the end.

Yes, a person can walk, or even drag, themselves right out of a hospital.
The only catch is that once this happens, the hospital can establish that this person has refused care, and therefore the hospital has absolutely no obligation to provide care, if the person were to fall over and die right there outside of the facility.

WOW....

I've been a nurse for 22 years and worked at a dozen hospitals, I've never seen anyone held against their will unless they were suicidal or a danger to others. They are petitioned and are taken by police to a mental health facility. I know some family members will get paid by the state to take care of their family. I have had cases where I've had to get adult protective services involved, and had the patient removed from the families care.

We don't even hold criminals, or drunk drivers unless the police post a 24 hour guard until they are released. Sometimes the police will call and ask us let them know when so and so is discharged. We cannot do that it's a Hippa violation. They walk just like anyone else. Same goes for border crosser's unless border patrol sits on them they walk.

Usually when a patient wants to leave against medical advice..the attitude among staff is here's the paper, sign it and don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out. I never try to talk people into staying. I don't have time for that. I'd rather help the people that want help. Most healthcare providers feel the same way.

The story seems odd I can't imagine a hospital holding someone against their will. Not saying it didn't happen, but I feel like there's more to the story. Hospitals cannot disclose patients information to the public so we may never hear their side.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Thanks for posting that. And don't take my slamming Mayo as a slam on you. All I can say is wow! How could a group like Mayo that is supposed to consist of our best and brightest put out such nonsense? They think we're stupid. They are mistaken. That isn't their side of the story of what actually happened. It's nothing more than a vaguely worded hit piece. They gave their side of the story to several neutral parties in more than one county and all of those neutral parties did not uphold their position.

I like this one. “We chose not to be interviewed by CNN for the story because doing so would bring negative publicity to a vulnerable adult in a suspected abusive family environment,” says Charles (Michel) Harper, M.D., executive dean for practice, Mayo Clinic. “It’s a heartbreaking situation. And, as caregivers, we believe our role is to protect our patient’s well-being and safety.

What a load of rubbish. The former patient is now doing well, graduated high school and will be off to college. There is virtually nothing they can say that would hurt their former patient's well being. Permission was given so that they could talk and a form signed to the effect at Mayo's request. They got their bluff called and predictably clammed up. The real reason they refused the interview is they know their spin is full of more holes than swiss cheese and wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

And with the bolded they say just enough to bash the former patient and her family. That's a perfect example of what i meant earlier. Don't play all "we care too much about our patients to comment blah blah blah" but then throw in accusations of abuse.

 

[Troutda]

The other side of the story:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/08/15/mayo-disputes-medical-kidnapping-cnn-story

 

[cruiser21]

This. You can't refuse to tell your side of the story, and then complain that the story being told is one-sided. You can't eat your cake and have it, too.

It's a HIPPA violation for a hospital to give out a any information about a patient. Even an employee leaving a piece of paper with the patients name one it can result in a fine.

 

[NYCgrrl]

The other side of the story:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/08/15/mayo-disputes-medical-kidnapping-cnn-story

Excerpted from the link:

Child protection petition filed
Last month, a Martin County judge issued an order removing the Mayo patient's five younger half-siblings from her mother's care, according to the court filing citing a series of reports of neglect, physical and emotional abuse.

The court records also said the mother tested positive for methamphetamines and amphetamines in late July when a county official visited her home in Sherburne to investigate child abuse reports. At that time the children were removed from her care and placed in the care of their father, who is also the patient's stepfather.

The mother could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

Their father told MPR News that he stands by the CNN story and he never saw the mother harm her oldest daughter, who was the Mayo patient.

He and the mother are now separated. He said the allegations outlined in the court order only started after their treatment by Mayo.

From this article it seems the father responding to the story is the Mayo patient's stepfather. The Mayo Clinic is located in Rochester County but it was a judge in Marin County that issued an order removing the other children from the home.

The plot thickens.

 

[cruiser21]

The other side of the story:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/08/15/mayo-disputes-medical-kidnapping-cnn-story

I guess I'm in the minority on this board, but I'm totally behind Mayo. If I told you the things I've seen and the things patients and family members pull it would absolutely blow your mind. One thing I've never seen is a patient being held hostage in a hospital. There is no financial gain for a hospital to do this. The goal is to get people out as fast as possible.

 

[Ariel484]

How could a group like Mayo that is supposed to consist of our best and brightest put out such nonsense?

They are the best and the brightest: https://www.usnews.com/info/blogs/p...8-14/us-news-announces-2018-19-best-hospitals

Crazy timing...this story comes out just a few days before the national rankings. I'm surprised Mayo commented at all, I was expecting a small statement about not revealing patient information and then nothing as they'd wait for people to forget about it.

It's a HIPPA violation for a hospital to give out a any information about a patient. Even an employee leaving a piece of paper with the patients name one it can result in a fine.

THIS. HIPAA violations are really serious and can result in jail time, fines of millions of dollars, etc. Legally I don't think Mayo can really say much, if anything, beyond what they said in their statement. Still really curious to know why they wouldn't just let her leave when she wanted to, though.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

They are the best and the brightest: https://www.usnews.com/info/blogs/p...8-14/us-news-announces-2018-19-best-hospitals

Crazy timing...this story comes out just a few days before the national rankings. I'm surprised Mayo commented at all, I was expecting a small statement about not revealing patient information and then nothing as they'd wait for people to forget about it.

THIS. HIPAA violations are really serious and can result in jail time, fines of millions of dollars, etc. Legally I don't think Mayo can really say much, if anything, beyond what they said in their statement. Still really curious to know why they wouldn't just let her leave when she wanted to, though.

Unless you sign indicating that they can talk about it. Similar to what you do when request information from your doctor for a new doctor or even something else.

Which she did. Once they have that authorization, they are free to disclose.

People should realize that this isn't the first time that this has happened. Others, mostly children, have been held essentially hostage at the hospital. It happens when a doctor decides that he knows all and is upset that a parent or patient, dare to question him.

 

[cruiser21]

Unless you sign indicating that they can talk about it. Similar to what you do when request information from your doctor for a new doctor or even something else.

Which she did. Once they have that authorization, they are free to disclose.

People should realize that this isn't the first time that this has happened. Others, mostly children, have been held essentially hostage at the hospital. It happens when a doctor decides that he knows all and is upset that a parent or patient, dare to question him.

Where are all these examples of children be held hostage in hospitals? Dr's have a lot of liability. No one wants a law suit. The fact that we live in a sue happy country may cloud some of their judgement. Some are more cautious then others when it comes to discharges...but to physically hold someone against their will takes a lot more than just a doctor saying they want you to stay.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

More info coming out

http://www.kimt.com/content/news/Ma...use-in-medical-kidnapping-case-490973801.html

https://www.medcitybeat.com/news-blog/2018/mayo-says-family-abuse-involved-cnn-story

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

.

I'm working, but when I have time, I will list some of the cases.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

.

I'm working, but when I have time, I will list some of the cases.

I'll start with Justina Pelletier.

And yes, it does take more than a doctor. It takes a team. And the term is medical kidnapping.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

It's a HIPPA violation for a hospital to give out a any information about a patient. Even an employee leaving a piece of paper with the patients name one it can result in a fine.

The patient signed a waiver allowing Mayo to discuss the case. And Mayo, after previously saying they would grant an interview if they had such a waiver, declined. In other words, they got their bluff called, and folded.

 

[Wishing on a star]

So, NYC, about that Child Protective Order. There were not criminal charges or known history at the time of this incident with MAYO???
The mother might be one horrible awful person.
But, that still does not give MAYO the obligation or right to hold anyone against their will.
If they were SO concerned about what they witnessed with the mother.. Document and contact authorities.
Request an immediate restraining order.

If I have a family member or neighbor, or whomever, who is abusive to a child, that does not give me the right to take custody and control of that child.... That isn't how it works.... No matter how awful MAYO might make it sound in order to justify their actions.

I still do not know if I am seeing/hearing anything at all that gives MAYO the right or obligation to overstep their rights.

 

[cruiser21]

The patient signed a waiver allowing Mayo to discuss the case. And Mayo, after previously saying they would grant an interview if they had such a waiver, declined. In other words, they got their bluff called, and folded.

Maybe their lawyers advised them otherwise. I’m sure there’s going to be litigation of some sort.

 

[Wishing on a star]

True....
They just can't use 'privacy' or HIPPA, as a reason for their silence.
Sounds like CYA mode to me.
They could still issue some statements regarding the basic facts of the case.... The fact that they are choosing to remain silent, EXCEPT for to throw out allegations against the family... (which is def. not appropriate if privacy is their excuse) That is very telling.