Ending a marriage (long overdue update #55)

[Carly_Roach]

I like eggs.

I like them, too! And I certainly have a few of my happiness eggs in my DH's basket. But we both have agreed on (realized? learned?) what I consider one of life's more important lessons: preference.

There's a huge difference to, "I prefer having him around me because I like how I feel when he's here" and "I have to have him around me because I'm empty when he's not here". Especially when you're married to a cop.

I'm just as sure there are times when we each prefer to NOT be around the other person - him when he's in one of his "moods" and me when I'm PMS-ing. During those times we each go to our corners and come back later when the other is feeling better. It's life and these things happen. We forgive, overlook, remember our primary preferences and go on.

But that's us. It's something we've worked on and is a feeling that seems to work for both of us. My preference for his presence in my life is stronger than my preference for a life that would never have an occasionally tipsy (OK, drunk) mate who goes to a stag party now and then or someone who forgets our anniversary or my birthday but who remembers to not only take out the trash but puts a new bag in the can as well.

Our feelings of love aren't based on TV or what others say they should be. Our feelings of love are based on how we feel toward each other and the heck with what the rest of the world thinks.

So yes, I like eggs, too.

 

[sbell111]

I don't know why, but I am truly surprised at the flack OP is getting here.

Both parties entered into the marriage for something other than love. The love doesn't sound like it ever came. I think OP is doing the right thing. You are 41, been married a while and it's just not working. Time to MOVE ON!

To all the PP's who think she should stick it out - the OP has never felt loved, has never enjoyed physical touch of someone who loves her other than for sex, they aren't comfortable talking with each other about anything serious. She's living with a friend, not a husband!

OP - you go and do what you have to do. I will agree that dragging your feet isn't going to help anyone. HOpefully in the end you will find yourself with someone who wants the same things out of a marriage that you do, or you will find happiness with yourself. I wish you loads of luck! It's not an easy road, but I truly believe you will be happier without him.

The bolded bit confuses me. To me, when reading this thread, the two sides are basically divided between 'divorce him' and 'talk to him'. As most threads of this ilk on these boards, it skews a bit toward 'divorce him'. I have a few theories about why that is, but those are better left to a thread of their own. Either way, I'm of the opinion that those who suggesting that a conversation happens are doing so because they truly believe that married people aught to be adult enough to discuss there feelings with one another. If the husband were to start a thread which told his side of the story, I'm pretty sure that he would also be advised to talk to his spouse. I wonder what the "close the accounts and divorce him" set would advise him to do?

 

[Carly_Roach]

The bolded bit confuses me. To me, when reading this thread, the two sides are basically divided between 'divorce him' and 'talk to him'. As most threads of this ilk on these boards, it skews a bit toward 'divorce him'. I have a few theories about why that is, but those are better left to a thread of their own. Either way, I'm of the opinion that those who suggesting that a conversation happens are doing so because they truly believe that married people aught to be adult enough to discuss there feelings with one another. If the husband were to start a thread which told his side of the story, I'm pretty sure that he would also be advised to talk to his spouse. I wonder what the "close the accounts and divorce him" set would advise him to do?

I agree with you and rarely venture into the high drama that these threads typically evoke. There seems to be a high volume of divorced/unhappily married people here so I don't like the idea of contaminating my marriage with their stories.

I'm not sure why I opened this thread except maybe I was hoping it would have a happy ending. I'm a sucker for happy endings. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case which is why I gave my advice and wished them well.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Ohhh, the drama....

Sbell, I continue to very strongly disagree with you, and those who say 'talk to him'.

I think it completely unrealistic and incredible that, at this point, after what the OP has described over many years, that 'talking to him' is going to produce any miracle.

OP: do not listen to those who flame and accuse you of not giving your all in your marriage... you know what you have given, and also 'given up', over the years...

Look inside, and do what is right for YOU!!!!
Whatever that course may be.....

 

[beattyfamily]

Some of the replies on this thread are rediculous. Why argue with others opinions? We should all be able to voice our advice/opinions and then let the OP decide what she wants to do with what she's read.

I don't get the point of arguing about others views on what the OP should do.

I say since she isn't happy and wants change that she needs to talk to him about it (whether it's about the marriage or getting a divorce or whatever). I think a note wasn't the way to go. IMHO.

 

[Scurvy]

Ohhh, the drama....

Sbell, I continue to very strongly disagree with you, and those who say 'talk to him'.

I think it completely unrealistic and incredible that, at this point, after what the OP has described over many years, that 'talking to him' is going to produce any miracle.

OP: do not listen to those who flame and accuse you of not giving your all in your marriage... you know what you have given, and also 'given up', over the years...

Look inside, and do what is right for YOU!!!!
Whatever that course may be.....

Of course you are probably right that talking to him won't produce a miracle. But what if it did? What's the harm in talking to him before giving up? It could potentially help to save the relationship. No one on this thread is saying that the OP should talk to him and keep talking until a miracle occurs. They are saying to talk to him to try to salvage the marriage or to be sure that he understands how she feels and she understands how he feels. If she isn't satisfied that things will get better after they talk, she can still walk away - it doesn't obligate her to stay forever, just long enough for a conversation. If she actually tries to talk to him and he refuses, then she's done all that she can do. If they talk and she doesn't want to stay afterward, she doesn't have to.

If you are old enough to get married and have kids, you are old enough to communicate like an adult. Yes, the OP's husband should have responded to her letter. But she is the one that wants to leave, so I think she owes it to him to talk to him about that in person. If he was beating her or cheating or something like that, I wouldn't be suggesting that she try to talk to him. I'd be telling her to leave right now. But I think it's foolish to walk away from a marriage that isn't abusive, especially when you have children, without at least trying to repair it. The OP's marriage sounds neglectful but not abusive. If she doesn't care enough about her marriage to fight for it, then I guess there's no reason for her to talk to him. But if it matters to her at all, then I think she ought to try everything she can to save it before she gives up.

 

[hornedfrog]

Of course you are probably right that talking to him won't produce a miracle. But what if it did? What's the harm in talking to him before giving up? It could potentially help to save the relationship. No one on this thread is saying that the OP should talk to him and keep talking until a miracle occurs. They are saying to talk to him to try to salvage the marriage or to be sure that he understands how she feels and she understands how he feels. If she isn't satisfied that things will get better after they talk, she can still walk away - it doesn't obligate her to stay forever, just long enough for a conversation. If she actually tries to talk to him and he refuses, then she's done all that she can do. If they talk and she doesn't want to stay afterward, she doesn't have to.

If you are old enough to get married and have kids, you are old enough to communicate like an adult. Yes, the OP's husband should have responded to her letter. But she is the one that wants to leave, so I think she owes it to him to talk to him about that in person.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I think that when we color someone else's issue with too much of our own experiences to the point of filling in blanks, we tend to do them a major disservice.

You're absolutely right. We're talking about OP, not me. However, by sharing my story, I thought it might help her to know there are other people out there going through something very similar. I don't think I'm too far off though. It can be very disheartening when it seems like every post you read on the DIS talks about how absolutely wonderful everyone's marriage is and you know yours isn't.

Of course you are probably right that talking to him won't produce a miracle. But what if it did? What's the harm in talking to him before giving up? It could potentially help to save the relationship. No one on this thread is saying that the OP should talk to him and keep talking until a miracle occurs. They are saying to talk to him to try to salvage the marriage or to be sure that he understands how she feels and she understands how he feels. If she isn't satisfied that things will get better after they talk, she can still walk away - it doesn't obligate her to stay forever, just long enough for a conversation. If she actually tries to talk to him and he refuses, then she's done all that she can do. If they talk and she doesn't want to stay afterward, she doesn't have to.

If you are old enough to get married and have kids, you are old enough to communicate like an adult. Yes, the OP's husband should have responded to her letter. But she is the one that wants to leave, so I think she owes it to him to talk to him about that in person. If he was beating her or cheating or something like that, I wouldn't be suggesting that she try to talk to him. I'd be telling her to leave right now. But I think it's foolish to walk away from a marriage that isn't abusive, especially when you have children, without at least trying to repair it. The OP's marriage sounds neglectful but not abusive. If she doesn't care enough about her marriage to fight for it, then I guess there's no reason for her to talk to him. But if it matters to her at all, then I think she ought to try everything she can to save it before she gives up.

I agree OP should probably try to have a conversation with her husband and if he refuses, she walks, but only if she wants the relationship to work. However, sometimes after years of feeling unappreciated, unloved, unwanted, and emotionally distanced, you don't really care to work things out or try again. Your self-esteem is in the gutter and you begin to believe you're not worthy and that the relationship you're in now is the best you'll ever have or deserve. I don't think OP is taking this decision lightly. Hey, it's taken her 14 years to write a note. OP needs to be honest with herself, before she can be honest with her husband. And somewhere in there in the consideration of her kids because even if she knows what she wants, or what is best, it still might not be easy to follow through when considering their feelings.

As to your assertion that OP "owes" her husband, and that she's not in an abusive relationship, I think you're WAY off. There are many types of "abuse". And being neglected and ignored by your spouse (which I believe OP is -- no saying I Love You, no kissing, no touching other than sex, no communication whatsoever) is abuse -- it's emotional abuse. Why is it only abuse when it's physical? Obviously I disagree with points of your post, but I guess I might just be seeing it from a different perspective.

 

[Scurvy]

I agree OP should probably try to have a conversation with her husband and if he refuses, she walks, but only if she wants the relationship to work. However, sometimes after years of feeling unappreciated, unloved, unwanted, and emotionally distanced, you don't really care to work things out or try again. Your self-esteem is in the gutter and you begin to believe you're not worthy and that the relationship you're in now is the best you'll ever have or deserve. I don't think OP is taking this decision lightly. Hey, it's taken her 14 years to write a note. OP needs to be honest with herself, before she can be honest with her husband. And somewhere in there in the consideration of her kids because even if she knows what she wants, or what is best, it still might not be easy to follow through when considering their feelings.

As to your assertion that OP "owes" her husband, and that she's not in an abusive relationship, I think you're WAY off. There are many types of "abuse". And being neglected and ignored by your spouse (which I believe OP is -- no saying I Love You, no kissing, no touching other than sex, no communication whatsoever) is abuse -- it's emotional abuse. Why is it only abuse when it's physical? Obviously I disagree with points of your post, but I guess I might just be seeing it from a different perspective.

If the OP had let her husband know at any point before this that she was not happy with the way he was treating her, I would agree that he was being emotionally abusive. But my impression is that she had never told him that she was unhappy before this. (If I remember the thread correctly, at least.) I know a couple who is basically just friends - I'm not sure if they love each other romantically, if they do they certainly don't show it - but they are both happy. They have what they want in the relationship, even though it isn't what most people would want. Maybe the OP's husband though she was happy (or at least content) with the way things were. If she didn't let him know otherwise, then I wouldn't consider his neglect to be abusive at all. I certainly don't think that all abuse has to be physical, but if this is the first time she has ever said that she was unhappy with the way he was treating her then she shouldn't be too surprised that he kept treating her that way. How was he to know he shouldn't? Now that he does know, the behavior is less acceptable. But if he was just blindsided by this after all these years I could understand why he might not know how to react at first.

I stand my my statement that she owes him. If he was posting the things she is, I would be saying he owed her. I believe marriage is a serious commitment and I think that if you make a promise like that to another person, then you owe them your best effort to save the relationship if that is possible - at least in the absence of something truly horrible on their part. If saving the relationship isn't possible, then I think the person who chooses to leave owes their spouse at least a conversation to explain why they are leaving unless having the conversation would put that person in danger. Obviously not everyone feels that way, but I do.

 

[Tuffcookie]

Scurvy wrote:

I believe marriage is a serious commitment and I think that if you make a promise like that to another person, then you owe them your best effort to save the relationship if that is possible - at least in the absence of something truly horrible on their part.

You & I think alike!

TC

 

[LuvOrlando]

I'm a little confused. A while back the OP posted that she left her husband a note that explained things. I can only assume 'things' includes her desire to dissolve the marriage. Why are people still discussing what she should do when she's already not only made up her mind but acted on it? Am I missing something?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I'm a little confused. A while back the OP posted that she left her husband a note that explained things. I can only assume 'things' includes her desire to dissolve the marriage. Why are people still discussing what she should do when she's already not only made up her mind but acted on it? Am I missing something?

I am totally confused. I do not understand why you would not talk to your spouse about this.

 

[Renesmee]

We talked last night.

I told him we need to talk about things, and he asked me if I had a "master plan?". There was no anger, and, just like everything else in our marriage, I am the one to make the final decision. He finds out I am not happy, and he wants to know "the" plan. He didn't try to defend himself against what I had said. I say it's over, so it's over.

He told me the letter did take him by surprise, he did not know I was unhappy. He did realize he never told me "I Love You" but said he is not the most romantic person in the world, and that I hate everything (chocolate, flowers, jewelry). So I guess in his mind, those are the only three things you can use to express your feelings for a woman, and since I don't care for any of them, he thought he was good.

He mentioned that I never told him the words. I said I used to say them, and said, "Yeah, way back in the beginning." Well, what do you want? i say it, and don't get a response, am I going to keep saying it, and feel rejected every time? I gave up. I did give him MANY sentimental cards over the years, that said what I didn't. I have received joke cards all these years. I mentioned the cards, and he said he has given me cards. I said JOKE cards. He reminded me he gave me a sentimental card ONCE....I told him after all these years of getting a joke card, and never being told how you feel about me, I wasn't sure if the card said how you truly feel, if you just gave it to me, because I hadn't gotten one in so many years.

We were not arguing, we were talking. I asked him if he was happy. After a silent pause..he said he was content. Well, to me, content is not happy. Content means he has settled. I asked him if he thought counseling might help us...another pause....and he said "I don't know." I waited for him to expand on that, but there was a few minutes of silence. A few times during the conversation, I was ready to tell him to forget it, we will just continue on like this, since he said he was content. But I couldn't do it. I need to start making myself happy, and not everyone around me. If he doesn't want to fight for the marriage, and is resigned to it being over, then maybe he can move from contentment to happiness himself.

So, the talks have started. Now that we have had the initial talk, talking from now on will be easier for me. Probably not from him, but he will answer questions I ask him...from what was discussed last night, he will probably be the one to move out. I do know this will be amicable. He is not angy, and I am just sad. There is no need for anything to get ugly.

Thank you to everyone who has supported me through this.

 

[mtemm]

I'm glad you were finally able to talk. I know it likely wasn't easy. best of luck for your future, however it ends up.

 

[Renesmee]

I am totally confused. I do not understand why you would not talk to your spouse about this.

I can answer this! Yesterday, readingthrough some of the replies on here, a few of them had me tearing up. Some of the things that were said about if I was an adult, and have kids, I should be able to have a conversation. I couldn't answer the "why can't you just talk to him?" I just knew it has always been hard to have a serious conversation with him.

Well. last night, I now know why. I will talk, and be met with long bouts of silence. If I ask him something that he doesn't want to answer, he just becomes mute. It is very frustrating, and I think the breakdown occured over the years because I just didn't want to go through that. It was easier for me to not even bring it up. Some things that needed to be discussed, I would ask what we were going to do about an XYZ situation, he would not have an answer, so what would happen, when it became time to deal with XYZ, I would get angry and yell and force him to give me an answer.

 

[PaddingtonBear]

I know every person is different and all, but I don't blame you for moving on. I couldn't live with someone who was so uninvested.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I can answer this! Yesterday, readingthrough some of the replies on here, a few of them had me tearing up. Some of the things that were said about if I was an adult, and have kids, I should be able to have a conversation. I couldn't answer the "why can't you just talk to him?" I just knew it has always been hard to have a serious conversation with him.

Well. last night, I now know why. I will talk, and be met with long bouts of silence. If I ask him something that he doesn't want to answer, he just becomes mute. It is very frustrating, and I think the breakdown occured over the years because I just didn't want to go through that. It was easier for me to not even bring it up. Some things that needed to be discussed, I would ask what we were going to do about an XYZ situation, he would not have an answer, so what would happen, when it became time to deal with XYZ, I would get angry and yell and force him to give me an answer.

I understand what you are saying.

However I can't live with someone like that for even one day, so it is hard for me to relate.

DH and I are polar opposites of you. We talked and analyze things to death.

I am glad that you have the courage to go forward. Good luck to you.

 

[mickeyboat]

 

[Scurvy]

I can answer this! Yesterday, readingthrough some of the replies on here, a few of them had me tearing up. Some of the things that were said about if I was an adult, and have kids, I should be able to have a conversation. I couldn't answer the "why can't you just talk to him?" I just knew it has always been hard to have a serious conversation with him.

Well. last night, I now know why. I will talk, and be met with long bouts of silence. If I ask him something that he doesn't want to answer, he just becomes mute. It is very frustrating, and I think the breakdown occured over the years because I just didn't want to go through that. It was easier for me to not even bring it up. Some things that needed to be discussed, I would ask what we were going to do about an XYZ situation, he would not have an answer, so what would happen, when it became time to deal with XYZ, I would get angry and yell and force him to give me an answer.

I am the one who said that, and I am really sorry if it upset you. I didn't mean for it to. I hate initiating serious, emotional conversations about something important so I understand why you had trouble talking about it. But I do think that once you're an adult and married with kids you have to make yourself do things like that, no matter how much you don't want to. That certainly doesn't mean it's always easy, though. I'm glad you were able to have the conversation last night.

I do understand what you mean about the silence. My husband and I have completely different ways of communicating when we are disagreeing. I talk, and my thoughts sort of evolve as I am saying them. He likes to think it all through before he responds to make sure he knows exactly what he wants to say. So for years I would say things that were really important to me and then he would just sit there with this blank expression that made me absolutely furious. He thought for way too long, so there were times that he thought about something for a while, and then real life interfered and we had to go do other things, and then he ended up forgetting he hadn't talked to me about it. (I can't count the number of times that he swore he had talked to me about something even though he never had - he just remembered doing it because he had thought through the whole thing but never actually verbalized any of it.) We finally had a huge screaming argument about how unimportant that made me feel (well, I screamed. He sat there not talking.) But he did finally talk to me about it and he explained that he liked to formulate his thoughts before he starts to talk. I find it weird, and still a little annoying, but now after I finish talking he does acknowledge that he heard me and that he is thinking. It helps. And if he doesn't respond soon enough for me then I remind him about it. (I joke that he needs a "thinking" icon like on the computer, just so I know he hasn't forgotten about whatever we were talking about.) Of course he was willing to try to change, which is what made the big difference.

If your husband is okay with "content" and doesn't want to change things, and you are hoping for "happy", then I can see why you want to move on. I don't blame you at all. If that's what happens, then I hope it all goes smoothly.

I'm a little confused. A while back the OP posted that she left her husband a note that explained things. I can only assume 'things' includes her desire to dissolve the marriage. Why are people still discussing what she should do when she's already not only made up her mind but acted on it? Am I missing something?

I had the impression that she was sad that the marriage was ending. I felt that if there was any possibility that she wanted to save it, she needed to actually let him know why she was unhappy. I hoped maybe he would want to work on things if he realized there was a problem. In my opinion it's a mistake to just walk away from a marriage without attempting to fix it if there is any possibility that you could be happy again with the other person, which is what I was afraid the OP was doing. So that's why I was saying all that. If she hadn't sounded sad about the marriage ending, or if she hated him, I wouldn't have. But it sounded to me like if he were to stop being so neglectful that she would be happy so I thought she ought to try.

 

[hopemax]

Well. last night, I now know why. I will talk, and be met with long bouts of silence. If I ask him something that he doesn't want to answer, he just becomes mute. It is very frustrating, and I think the breakdown occured over the years because I just didn't want to go through that. It was easier for me to not even bring it up. Some things that needed to be discussed, I would ask what we were going to do about an XYZ situation, he would not have an answer, so what would happen, when it became time to deal with XYZ, I would get angry and yell and force him to give me an answer.

Like the other poster, I wanted to talk about different communication styles. I am your frustrating "mute." Sometimes it can take me hours to put together a DIS post, about complex but unimportant topics. And this is dealing with strangers. Can you imagine how long it would take me to gather my words to talk about something serious with someone I was married to?

My need to gather my thoughts has caused issues with DH. He will get frustrated that I am not talking, I try to explain that I am having problems getting my feelings into words, he says say what I am thinking. And then when the words come out slowly and jumbled he starts giving me a rolling your eyes, impatient, come on, talk faster look, that just makes me upset and harder for the words to come. I'm not a talking doll that will speak on command or his schedule. This also happens with simple stuff, like what I want for dinner. If I don't give an immediate answer, I get the rolling eyes.

I'm also not an "initiator." Even in chit chat type of conversations. I am more than willing to answer your questions, but I have a heck of a time trying to come up with something to ask you. I worry that I come off as stuck up or something, but I also have fears of asking the wrong question. It's very stressful, and so I usually end up trying to avoid one on one situations. In a group, it isn't so obvious that one person isn't an initiator.

This is where counseling might help. Give you both an opportunity to figure out what your communication styles are; and how you can work with each other. If he is silent because he just wants to avoid is one thing, silent because he is a thinker before he is a talker is something else. A counselor might be able to help with a plan, words he can say to let you know he heard you but is not ready to respond, a schedule where you could say your piece, and then give him a little time to process and later he could come back and respond.