DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[muppets3d]

People aren’t going to like this but … The City of Orlando Municipal Code states very clearly that if you are a homeowner that does not live on site, the minimum lease length is 30 days. If you want to rent in shorter intervals you must register with the city and obtain a business tax license and pay the taxes on your profits … if you make a dime off your DVC the government with which your deed is registered considers you a business.

That doesn't have anything to do with Orlando, that's just the law. Uncle Sam wants his due if you make any money.

 

[JOLT]

Don’t agree. One no one other than you and the person renting knows what you rented for. Two you have to consider to original purchase on some level. I paid $35000 to get in and this year I made $1000 in renting if I just look at dues this year. Still down $34000

no one knows what you rented for but Disney could use a set base price to use. maybe similar to the price of OTUP. I would say if you rent 51% of your points every year that contact is no longer personal since the majority is rental.

I normally book AKL Value and Club level for weekends and extended weekends. Because they are very hard to get I book at 11 months. If my kids say they want to go on a cruise or somewhere not Disney and I rent them Is that a spec rental because its during a desired time?

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not sure I would bet the farm that a finding in Oregon would serve as precedent in Florida. And that's before considering what, if any, differences exist between the DVC governing documents and the underlying covenants in the cited case that might give DVC better leverage. This case gives the framework for an argument that a Member might make, and it might be a good argument, but I'm not convinced it will necessarily prevail.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: Disney has first-mover advantage, some very favorable language in the governing documents, and very deep pockets. If the Mouse decides to be petty, they are going to turn any court action into a very expensive and protracted fight.

Note that the Mouse has a history of being petty.

And, in this case, I can imagine they will be interested in taking this pretty far. They would not only be fighting the Member(s) in front of them, but all future members for as long as DVC exists. They are going to be very highly motivated to win.

Except if the notion is out there that renting your DVC will be extremely difficult, especially with how that will be portrayed in the social media world, that could have an impact on sales.

So, I can’t imagine a world where they won’t consider that because their own comments last year were about large point owners and going after them.

Even if you look at the Wyndham metrics I saw, and DVC adopted them, Is bet it would leave a lot of owners in the clear.

 

[Sandisw]

in my mind I would think anyone renting points where you net profit after paying your total dues would boarder on non personal. If you do that for multiple years I can see Disney trying to crack down on your membership. Disney could take a 3 year average and if you are on that list you get a warning and the next time they take action.

IMO, this would make sense as a reasonable metric for DVC.

If your break even every year is close to $0, it seems reasonable to keep that in the okay column, because that implies to me your renting more for free vacations than to run a business.

There should be a level of overall potential incomes that woild be reasonable given the right to rent.

Part of why I see them using number of points as a factor.

 

[matt_in_nh]

no one knows what you rented for but Disney could use a set base price to use. maybe similar to the price of OTUP. I would say if you rent 51% of your points every year that contact is no longer personal since the majority is rental.

I normally book AKL Value and Club level for weekends and extended weekends. Because they are very hard to get I book at 11 months. If my kids say they want to go on a cruise or somewhere not Disney and I rent them Is that a spec rental because it’s during a desired time?

I just think based on What they have said, you will be fine and they are looking at people with thousands of points who rent them all. But lots of unknowns regarding how this will get enforced.

Agree they can use a percent of points but I don’t think they will. I think they will go after 8000 point owners or anyone with more than x point who mostly rent them all year in and year out.

 

[Sandisw]

People aren’t going to like this but … The City of Orlando Municipal Code states very clearly that if you are a homeowner that does not live on site, the minimum lease length is 30 days. If you want to rent in shorter intervals you must register with the city and obtain a business tax license and pay the taxes on your profits … if you make a dime off your DVC the government with which your deed is registered considers you a business.

My understanding that does not apply to DVC because we are not considered home owners, which is why we don’t qualify for FL resident status.

 

[lowlight]

IMO, this would make sense as a reasonable metric for DVC.

If your break even every year is close to $0, it seems reasonable to keep that in the okay column, because that implies to me your renting more for free vacations than to run a business.

What is the difference between taking the 10k you make renting extra points and using it to pay for a Disney vacation or taking the 10k you make renting extra points and paying off your car loan? Renting more for free vacations is just a euphemism for “profiting” in that sense.

 

[JOLT]

I just think based on What they have said, you will be fine and they are looking at people with thousands of points who rent them all. But lots of unknowns regarding how this will get enforced.

Agree they can use a percent of points but I don’t think they will. I think they will go after 8000 point owners or anyone with more than x point who mostly rent them all year in and year out.

I wasn't worried about myself I think the most I've ever rented was 20% 1 year.

only Disney knows what point range has a high member rental rate.

 

[Sandisw]

What is the difference between taking the 10k you make renting extra points and using it to pay for a Disney vacation or taking the 10k you make renting extra points and paying off your car loan? Renting more for free vacations is just a euphemism for “profiting” in that sense.

If ones net profit is $10k, after dues, every year, then that is income and is high enough IMO to shift your purpose for owning.

I am specifically talking about an owner, who, may rent half their points to cover the yearly dues.

They have a net profit of close to $0…to me, that is not someone in it for a commercial purpose. It’s just to offset the cost of ownership…maybe a better way to phrase it.

The standard that DVC is supposed to apply is that the owner is reasonably in it for something thst looks like a business.

The standard is not supposed to be anything that one could term a commercial act in the most technical of terms.

 

[JOLT]

What is the difference between taking the 10k you make renting extra points and using it to pay for a Disney vacation or taking the 10k you make renting extra points and paying off your car loan? Renting more for free vacations is just a euphemism for “profiting” in that sense.

does it mater where the actual money goes its still 10k you are paying for your dues that is offset by the 10k you rented your points for. it doesn't mater if you spend that 10k on something else.

 

[lowlight]

If ones net profit is $10k, after dues, then that Thst is income and is high enough IMO to shift your purpose for owning.

I am specifically talking about an owner, who, may rent half their points to cover the yearly dues.

They have a net profit of close to $0…to me, that is not someone in it for a commercial purpose. It’s just to offset the cost of ownership…maybe a better way to phrase it.

The standard that DVC is supposed to apply is that the owner is reasonably in it for something thst looks like a business.

The standard is not supposed to be anything that one could term a commercial act in the most technical of terms.

So if i have 3000 points and my dues are 30k, I can rent 1428 points at 21 a point to cover those dues and not be commercially renting? I disagree. That I’m paying my dues means nothing, the IRS doesn’t consider dues an offset when I pay taxes on my rental income, do they?

 

[Brian Noble]

Except if the notion is out there that renting your DVC will be extremely difficult, especially with how that will be portrayed in the social media world, that could have an impact on sales.

No. It won't. Because timeshares are sold, not bought, and most prospects no little more than DVC exists---and probably not even that. The sales arm will easily find a way to take advantage of the pixie-dust moment that most prospects have while on tour. This is going to be marginal.

At best.

In fact, I suspect it will help. If the ready supply of DVC rentals for "a Deluxe room at Moderate prices" dries up, that makes sales' job even easier.

 

[JOLT]

So if i have 3000 points and my dues are 30k, I can rent 1428 points at 21 a point to cover those dues and not be commercially renting? I disagree. That I’m paying my dues means nothing, the IRS doesn’t consider dues an offset when I pay taxes on my rental income, do they?

Is Disney IRS? what do you consider commercial renting? in my mind the majority of your contract is used for personal use.

 

[Cyberc1978]

in my mind I would think anyone renting points where you net profit after paying your total dues would boarder on non personal. If you do that for multiple years I can see Disney trying to crack down on your membership. Disney could take a 3 year average and if you are on that list you get a warning and the next time they take action.

Basically you are saying that if I rent 100 points at $30 (spec renting at best) and use the funds to pay the dues on my 300 points then it’s commercial?

Sorry but I disagree. You would need to rent more to be a commercial enterprise.

 

[Sandisw]

no one knows what you rented for but Disney could use a set base price to use. maybe similar to the price of OTUP. I would say if you rent 51% of your points every year that contact is no longer personal since the majority is rental.

I normally book AKL Value and Club level for weekends and extended weekends. Because they are very hard to get I book at 11 months. If my kids say they want to go on a cruise or somewhere not Disney and I rent them Is that a spec rental because its during a desired time?

This is an example of what I hope, and honestly expect, DVC takes into consideration when they decide what constitutes a violation.

It’s why I remain skeptical that they will use type of room as a metric if other patterns don’t exist.

 

[JOLT]

Basically you are saying that if I rent 100 points at $30 (spec renting at best) and use the funds to pay the dues on my 300 points then it’s commercial?

Sorry but I disagree. You would need to rent more to be a commercial enterprise.

Not everyone is going to agree on everything. I feel if you rent more than your dues I can see Disney saying that you are no longer using your contract for personal use. I also said maybe that it should be if 51% of your contract is rented for multiple years they could also consider you not using your contract as personal.

 

[Bearval]

Basically you are saying that if I rent 100 points at $30 (spec renting at best) and use the funds to pay the dues on my 300 points then it’s commercial?

Sorry but I disagree. You would need to rent more to be a commercial enterprise.

I think DVC would consider the using of a commercial site to rent your points as a violation. When DVC was created the internet really didn't exist. DVC probably thought that owners would rent points to just family and or friends since there really wasn't another feasible option at the time to reach a mass market at the time.

 

[lowlight]

Is Disney IRS? what do you consider commercial renting? in my mind the majority of your contract is used for personal use.

So if you have 10000 points and rent 5000 to cover those dues? We are never going to agree, and the only people defending those numbers are people who rent a high number of points per year. Nobody in the train cars wants the gravy train to stop.

 

[Sandisw]

So if you have 10000 points and rent 5000 to cover those dues? We are never going to agree, and the only people defending those numbers are people who rent a high number of points per year. Nobody in the train cars wants the gravy train to stop.

Plenty of people here have a different position than you that are not renting there points.

We don’t have to agree but please do not apply motives to others that may not exist. .

 

[drusba]

People aren’t going to like this but … The City of Orlando Municipal Code states very clearly that if you are a homeowner that does not live on site, the minimum lease length is 30 days. If you want to rent in shorter intervals you must register with the city and obtain a business tax license and pay the taxes on your profits … if you make a dime off your DVC the government with which your deed is registered considers you a business.

Adding to responses already made: the City of Orlando ordinance also does not apply simply because Disney World is not in the City of Orlando and subject to its ordinances. It is in Orlando County but not the city