DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

Just in case anyone who wasn't around and is curious....here is the language....


Commercial Use Policy. The Disney Vacation Club (DVC) Public Offering Statement makes it clear that DVC memberships are intended for personal vacation use. The Declaration of Condominium and the Membership Agreement for the Resort expressly limits the use of Ownership Interests to personal use and prohibits use for “commercial purposes,” – a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board of the Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or activity.

DVC Members may make as many reservations as they desire. However, if, in any 12-month period, a DVC Member desires to make more than 20 reservations, the DVC Member shall be required to establish, to the satisfaction of the Board, that all of the reservations made by the DVC Member in such 12-month period are for the use of accommodations by the DVC Member, the DVC Member’s family and/or the DVC Member’s friends (collectively, “Personal Use”), and not for commercial purposes. If, in any 12-month period in which a DVC Member attempts to make more than 20 reservations but is unable to establish, to the satisfaction of the Board, that all such reservations are for Personal Use and not for commercial purposes, all reservations in excess of the first 20 reservations shall be presumed to be the use of Vacation Accommodations for commercial purposes in violation of the Declaration and the Membership Agreement (the “Multiple Reservation
Just when I thought we had hashed out everything under the sun, “what’s this!?” (Asked like Jack Skellington in the song in NBC)

How did we make it this far without anybody pointing out that Disney actually once directly defined their meaning of “personal use” as “for the use of accommodations by the DVC Member, the DVC Member’s family and/or the DVC Member’s friends (collectively, “Personal Use”), and not for commercial purposes” (pasted directly from Sandi’s text above).

It doesn’t 100% prove that is the position DVC or Disney will take now or to what degree they will enforce it, but anybody who thinks Disney could never take steps to stop them from renting to strangers at $25/pt is taking a major risk.

In the past, Disney defined personal use very narrowly but then decided only to enforce over 20 reservations a year…I don’t know that I think they will come after small fry (which I define as renting under 200 points a year) for now, but I think they can if they want to and I think they eventually will if there is a decline in park interest such that going after “big time renters” (let’s say renting over 1000 points a year) doesn’t do enough to fill their own hotel rooms at favorable rates.
 
I would have no problem if DVC drew the line at 50% of your annual points per contract being eligible for renting. That still accommodates the legal requirement to allow for renting, would account for all of the "what if I (fill in the blank with a reason), and can't use my points people, and encourages personal use, as is stipulated in the POS.


A 50% limit per contract is almost impossible to manage.

For example - say you have 2 x 100 points at resort X.

You intend to make a reservation for someone that requires 80 points. How do you do that easily? The system requires you top prioritize the contracts so ordering the 2 contracts will take 80 points from contract 1 and you're in violation of the limit you suggested (you can make a dummy reservation first, then book the 80 points making sure both contracts are below 50, then cancel the dummy reservation, but who wants to do that?)

(not that I'm in favor of this but) I think a broad 50% limit across all your contracts and use years is a lot easier to manage on the owner side. Use any contract or use year you want...
 
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Now, DVC still have the power to decide when to cancel a reservation, and they very well could choose to say that "moving a reservation up a few weeks could be legitimate, but an owner who has moved the dates over a month or more? Yeah, that is obvious.


This doesn't have to be done with enforcement or sending nasty letters to owners. They can easily shut 11-month walking down with a very simple booking rule change such as:

Unlimited modifications are allowed BUT if you want to modify in the same resort/room/view you can only do that 11 months minus 7 days in advance. If you want to switch resort or room size or view category, nothing changes from current rules.
 
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Let me sum up the next 10 pages before they happen- if you walk, you're ok with members walking. If you commercially rent, you're ok with members commercially renting, to the exact amount of points you have (if you have 500 points, you're ok with commercial renters with 500 points, but not 600). The contract says blah blah blah, but really it's up to DVC, sue if you can afford to, but good luck winning, walkers are human beings and have feelings too, they need a trip to celebrate Aunt May's last birthday and it's more important than your spring break trip, all you were promised is a bed...I think that's most of it.
You used Chat GPT didn't ya!
 

Responses to some things raised above:

BVTC's Supposed Power to Affect Rental Rights.

The powers BVTC has are those in the applicable DVC Resort Agreement for a DVC Resort. Prior to CFW, such agreements never gave BVTC any right to even deal with a member's rentals of DVC rooms. That it can make modifications to those DVC Resort Agreements that may affect a member's ability to make reservations or rent does not mean it can do anything to change the rental rights a member has under the declarations. It could make changes that could affect such rights, such as add a new DVC Resort to the existing DVC Resorts and thus add a large number of new members who would be competing for reservations at all resorts at 7-months out, but the pre-CFW DVC Resort Agreements give it no power to deal with any DVC room rental issues.

Mid-2000's Creation of the 20-Reservation Rule.

Beginning about 2003, some serious rental issues developed, particularly as the internet became more popular and allowed members to readily find persons to whom to rent via creating internet sites to do so. Particularly impacted were studios for time in the Fall season -- late Sep to marathon weekend in Jan -- for holidays and for much of that time when nightly point costs were less than other times of year, particularly the first two weeks of Dec whichad the lowest point per night costs of the year. There were members who basically created rental businesses that that did many spec reservations for those popular times and then rented them through the internet. Reservations at the time were done via phone with MS. Also, the booking rule was that one could reserve beginning 11/7 months out from date of departure from a DVC Resort not date of arrival. Walking as we know it today did not develop as a result, but those members would do pseudo-walks by starting to make one-day reservations and then adding another day daily shortly before the desired reservation times and thus, ultimately, accomplis getting a number of reservations for high demand times for such rooms as BWV standard view studios before the usual members would reserve at 11-mopnths out from date of departure.

Members were limited at the time to owning no more than 2,000 points at any one resort and 5,000 total. Nevertheless, there were members who developed rental business that could actually do rentals with a much larger number of points.There were members who acted together as partnerships to raise the number of rentals they could do. Moreover, there were two rules that allowed a number of members to create businesses doing a lot more rentals with a lot more points. First any member could transfer in any use year, either in or out of the member's account but not both, an unlimited number of points. Thus, the professional renters could make deals with many other members, who likely did not even want to do rentals themselves, to transfer points to a professional renter. Second, the rules allowed any member to become an "Associate Member" of other members' accounts. Such associate members had the power to make reservations, and thus also rentals, with another members points.

Beginning in 2007, DVD/DVC, in response to a large number of complaints by members, began to take steps to deal with the problem. At the time, and thereafter continuing through the creation of CCV, the "Personal Use" definition expressly included a member's right to rent to lessees who used the rooms for vacation purposes. Such rentals became an improper "commercial purpose" only if the member was engaging in a pattern of rental activity that the association could reasonably conclude constituted a commercial enterprise or practice. A "commercial enterprise" is a legal terms used in many cases and statutes to mean a person or entity that is actually in the business of doing something to make profits. DVD/DVC created the 20-reservation-per-year rule that prevented the member from making more reservations in the year unless the member showed the reservations already made were not rentals, and the penalty was loss of the 21st and after rentals, not any of the first 20 if a violation were found. DVC then also created the one-transfer-per-year-rule (which had actually been the rule when DVC was created), and a rule that limited a member to being an Associate Member of no more than four other members' accounts.

None of those rules were formerly added to the resorts' declarations They were used to stop a number of the professional renters from doing large numbers of reservations. No one made a legal-case challenge to the new rules and it is thus unknown whether it would have been found to be legally valid. However, what appears from a lot of posts I have seen in this thread, is that many do not realize that the rules created in the mid-2,000's actually show DVD/DVC's own admission, which can later be used against it in any litigation, that DVD/DVC itself believed the "Personal Use" section rules in all the pre-Riviera declarations allowed a member to do a lot of rentals. Moreover, the 20 reservation rule created could actually be considered a higher limit than 20, because a member could become an Associate Member of 4 other members' accounts and do rentals from each, which rentals would be charged to the applicable member's account and not the associate member's account.

And then there is the construction rule that would be applicable in any litigation between a member and DVD/DVC if there were a legal action. Disney and its lawyers prepared and drafted all the terms in the POS, including those defining Personal Use, Commercial Purpose, and what is required for finding a violation by a member who is doing rentals. Member purchasers could not negotiate different terms.The rule followed by courts in that situation, when the terms at issue can be considered ambiguous, is that the little guy (the member) will win if the member's position is considered reasonable even if the big guy (DVD/DVC) has a differing position that is also reasonable, and that rule is particularly followed relating to disputes involving rights that should be favored, as the Florida courts do as to one's right to rent real property that one owns.

Walking

The June 2025 rule does not say anything about walking and to assume that language which says it is improper to commit fraud in doing reservations does away with walking is not correct, including because DVC is not ever going to publicly claim its many thousands of members who do walking are committing fraud.

Condo Ruiles Versus HOA Rules.

It is pointed out that the Homeowners Association Rules in section 720 of the Florida Statutes allow an association to make binding changes to rental rules that all must follow if the change is for 6-month or less rental periods. Arguably that may be true for CFW, which is not a condominium resort, but as to all the other DVC Resorts, the condominium law, §718, and the timeshare law §720, apply, including §718.110(13) that requires member votes on rental right changes that may reduce the number of times a member can rent, and provides that members who vote against the changes are not bound to follow them even if passed.
I enjoyed reading this post. Very enlightening and informative. It filled in the blanks for much of DVC history that predates our ownership.
 
I mean commercial renting is by definition getting money for the reservation.

So I'm allowed to rent or give a reservation a away as long as money is not exchanging hands?
This was visited in Yogman v. Parrott, the Court deciding that numerous short-term rentals do not constitute a commercial enterprise. This decision looked closely at the definition of a "commercial enterprise":

We next consider whether defendants' rental activity constitutes a “commercial enterprise.”  “Commercial” means, as relevant, “occupied with or engaged in commerce * * * [;]  related to or dealing with commerce.”  Id. at 456.   “Commerce,” in turn, means “the exchange or buying and selling of commodities esp. on a large scale”; but it also can mean “dealings of any kind.”   Ibid.  “Commercial” also can mean “having profit as the primary aim.”   Ibid. “Enterprise” can mean “VENTURE, UNDERTAKING, [OR] PROJECT”; “a business organization:  FIRM [OR] COMPANY”; or, simply, “any systematic purposeful activity.”  Id. at 757.​
If a “commercial enterprise” is any undertaking or systematic purposeful activity involving business dealings of any kind, then the covenant covers defendants' use of the property, because the short-term vacation rentals systematically and purposefully generate revenue from arm's-length transactions.   On the other hand, if a “commercial enterprise” requires a business organization that has profit as its primary aim, then the covenant does not cover defendants' use, [emphasis added] because the facts shown do not demonstrate that defendants are a business organization or that they have profit as their primary aim (as would be true, for example, of a bed-and-breakfast business).   Because of the different possible meanings of “commercial enterprise,” this portion of the restrictive covenant also is ambiguous. [emphasis added]​

If a restrictive covenant is ambiguous, then the maxim of "strict construction of restrictive covenants" applies. This means, the restrictive covenant (i.e. no commercial renting) must be interpreted in its least restrictive form.

Based on the least restrictive interpretation of commercial enterprise, DVC members should be able to rent their points as long as they don't form a "business organization that has profit as its primary aim" to do so.

Anyone who goes against Disney might end up facing them in court. Depending on the number of DVC owners willing to fight Disney, it's possible this could turn into a class action lawsuit.
 
“Walking

The June 2025 rule does not say anything about walking and to assume that language which says it is improper to commit fraud in doing reservations does away with walking is not correct, including because DVC is not ever going to publicly claim its many thousands of members who do walking are committing fraud.”

@Sandisw
 
Our HOA used to send letters about "lawn violations" but once I got on the board I found out that they knew from the attorney that if challenged they may not prevail since there were no landscaping rules in the restrictive covenants only a vague " neat yard".

The warnings and letters were enough to give the community the impression that it was a rule. However they would never assess a fine. A fine would give an owner standing and a reason to challenge it in court.

The HOA was afraid that it would get tossed in court and then the cat would be out of the bag that they had no control over lawns.

Is DVC in the same spot ? The members are demanding enforcement but their attorneys know that for the initial resorts they have a not insignificant a risk of publicly losing in court which would make it much worse. So they use vague language and veiled threats ( checkboxes) to calm everyone down while updating the documents and changing the structure from a condo to a trust for new resorts that are better positioned to prevent this.
 
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Is DVC in the same spot ? The members are demanding enforcement but their attorneys know that for the initial resorts they have a not insignificant a risk of publicly losing in court which would make it much worse. So they use vague language and veiled threats ( checkboxes) to calm everyone down while updating the documents and changing the structure from a condo to a trust for new resorts that are better positioned to prevent this.

There's only one way to know for sure. Rent all of your points this year and write to DVC member satisfaction team, tell them what you did, and say "What are you gonna do about it!". Their response will give us the answer.
 
And many would say that will always be the case even without walking.
The new owner who has no idea about walking gets a 0% chance.

All the other people get the better than 0% chance.

If there are 100 of a room/date available and 300 people wanting it. If 80 people decide to walk and find an opening, they get their rooms. The other 220 have their chance shot down to under 10%.

If all 300 followed the along with the way contracts describe 11 month First Come First Serve, everybody has a 33% shot. 3 times the chance. Maybe they get that room every 3 or 4 years instead of once a decade.

I don’t like walking because all it ends up doing is extending ALL of our trip lead times. I haven’t bothered yet but I’m also not going to accept my reduced chances forever. Once I start that first walk likely to just do it every time because why not? Maybe just walk all of my points every week and when I decide on a date, stop. Infinite walks for the win :duck:
 
The new owner who has no idea about walking gets a 0% chance.

All the other people get the better than 0% chance.

If there are 100 of a room/date available and 300 people wanting it. If 80 people decide to walk and find an opening, they get their rooms. The other 220 have their chance shot down to under 10%.

If all 300 followed the along with the way contracts describe 11 month First Come First Serve, everybody has a 33% shot. 3 times the chance. Maybe they get that room every 3 or 4 years instead of once a decade.

I don’t like walking because all it ends up doing is extending ALL of our trip lead times. I haven’t bothered yet but I’m also not going to accept my reduced chances forever. Once I start that first walk likely to just do it every time because why not? Maybe just walk all of my points every week and when I decide on a date, stop. Infinite walks for the win :duck:
I don't know why so many want to argue this point. It's just straight fact that walkers have an advantage over non-walkers. That's why they do it after all.
 
There's only one way to know for sure. Rent all of your points this year and write to DVC member satisfaction team, tell them what you did, and say "What are you gonna do about it!". Their response will give us the answer.
I don’t have to. last year with my sister had a death in the family. I was stuck with a two bedroom boardwalk view 20 days before the vacation. I rented it called member service to change the name for the people who rented it and even asked them if it was OK since it was three years worth of points for me as I only have 100 boardwalk points. Zero issues was made about renting nearly 3 years worth of points.

So I have more than rented a year worth of points with full knowledge of DVC.
 
The new owner who has no idea about walking gets a 0% chance.

All the other people get the better than 0% chance.

If there are 100 of a room/date available and 300 people wanting it. If 80 people decide to walk and find an opening, they get their rooms. The other 220 have their chance shot down to under 10%.

If all 300 followed the along with the way contracts describe 11 month First Come First Serve, everybody has a 33% shot. 3 times the chance. Maybe they get that room every 3 or 4 years instead of once a decade.

I don’t like walking because all it ends up doing is extending ALL of our trip lead times. I haven’t bothered yet but I’m also not going to accept my reduced chances forever. Once I start that first walk likely to just do it every time because why not? Maybe just walk all of my points every week and when I decide on a date, stop. Infinite walks for the win :duck:

My comment was in relation to new owners being given the advice to not buy with the expectation of getting those hard to get rooms.

Meaning, even if it didn’t exist, it’s still wise to go into it expecting to miss out.

This wasn’t a comment about walking at all. But rather helping new buyers understand the pros and cons of the resort they are considering.
 
“Walking

The June 2025 rule does not say anything about walking and to assume that language which says it is improper to commit fraud in doing reservations does away with walking is not correct, including because DVC is not ever going to publicly claim its many thousands of members who do walking are committing fraud.”

@Sandisw

Yes. I saw and posted a comment after that my excitement got the best of me and my analysis was a leap!

I did add a note to my initial post that it wasn’t new and maybe I jumped the gun.

Didn’t delete it though since it sparked conversation.

I’ve mentioned that I trust that posters legal analysis so definitely her take would be the correct one!!
 
If there are 100 of a room/date available and 300 people wanting it. If 80 people decide to walk and find an opening, they get their rooms. The other 220 have their chance shot down to under 10%.

If all 300 followed the along with the way contracts describe 11 month First Come First Serve, everybody has a 33% shot. 3 times the chance. Maybe they get that room every 3 or 4 years instead of once a decade.
I generally agree with you except on this one point, unless bots and spec renting are stopped, even if nobody was walking your particular day of odds would be lower than 25% on the most coveted rooms.

For some room types, I bet it would be less than 5%.
 
I don’t have to. last year with my sister had a death in the family. I was stuck with a two bedroom boardwalk view 20 days before the vacation. I rented it called member service to change the name for the people who rented it and even asked them if it was OK since it was three years worth of points for me as I only have 100 boardwalk points. Zero issues was made about renting nearly 3 years worth of points.

So I have more than rented a year worth of points with full knowledge of DVC.
I'm sorry you had to do that.

These are the emergent situations that we all want occasional renting to be allowed for.
 
Our HOA used to send letters about "lawn violations" but once I got on the board I found out that they knew from the attorney that if challenged they may not prevail since there were no landscaping rules in the restrictive covenants only a vague " neat yard".

The warnings and letters were enough to give the community the impression that it was a rule. However they would never assess a fine. A fine would give an owner standing and a reason to challenge it in court.

The HOA was afraid that it would get tossed in court and then the cat would be out of the bag that they had no control over lawns.

Is DVC in the same spot ? The members are demanding enforcement but their attorneys know that for the initial resorts they have a not insignificant a risk of publicly losing in court which would make it much worse. So they use vague language and veiled threats ( checkboxes) to calm everyone down while updating the documents and changing the structure from a condo to a trust for new resorts that are better positioned to prevent this.

I wasn’t even thinking about the aspect of the trust. It certainly gives them the ability to control things differently since it is not a leasehold condo.
 
I generally agree with you except on this one point, unless bots and spec renting are stopped, even if nobody was walking your particular day of odds would be lower than 25% on the most coveted rooms.

For some room types, I bet it would be less than 5%.
Exactly, except I would say, stopping bots would provide the fastest improvement in the member booking experience.
 



















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