DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[Sandisw]

There is a post out there that has an updated document about DVCs Terms and Conditins regarding bookings. It’s at the end of the booking.

It says effective June 1st. I’m still trying to find the document to post but the essence appears to have some updated language and clarification about personal use.

There also is a check box that you attest it’s personal use,,

I checked the website and don’t see it there yet. Once I can get the offical language …or if anyone else can find it…post.

Since this appears to be an update regarding rentals, this thread will the the one and only to discuss.

Please do not start a new one.

 

[Sandisw]

GeneralTERMS AND CONDITIONS AND RESPONSIBILITY

(Relevant section)
• You agree that any reservations made under your membership are solely for personal use and not for commercial purposes, as required by governing documents for each DVC Resort, including but not limited to the Declaration of Condominium and Membership Agreement.
DVCM reserves the right to interpret personal use and determine if reservations are booked for personal or commercial purposes in its sole discretion. Personal use may include enjoying the benefits of a DVC Membership with family or allowing use of any reserved Vacation Home to friends and family on occasion. Additionally, personal use means that the member does not regularly or frequently rent/sell reservations booked using their membership.
If any provision or provisions of these Terms and Conditions shall be held to be invalid, illegal, or unenforceable by a court of competent jurisdiction, such provision shall be enforced to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law and the validity, legality and enforceability of the remaining provisions shall not be affected thereby.
These terms and conditions are subject to change by Us and notice of such change will be deemed given if and when revised Terms and Conditions for "On-Line Booking for DVC
Resorts" are posted on this website. We shall at no time be liable or responsible in any way for any loss or damages arising out of the use, inability to use or the results of such use of this web site and the "On-Line Booking for DVC Resorts" module.
In addition to these Terms and Conditions, all use of the disneyvacationclub.com website is subject to the Terms of Use and the Privacy Policy of The Walt Disney Company.
• Use of your membership is subject to all of the rules, covenants, conditions, restrictions and limitations set forth in the Multi-site and Component Site Offering Statements for

 

[Sandisw]

So, it appears they have indeed updated the rules to be clearer for rentals.

Owners have to attest it is for personal use and the words “occasional” has been added and words “regular or frequent” has been added as well.

So, while it’s certainly not a set number, nor a specific type, it is definitely clearer for owners.

What is even clearer is that they can cancel the reservation if they feel it falls under their definition of commercial purposes.

REMINDER - Please keep things constructive.....no judgements or sarcasm please!!!

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

This language is close to what I remember from the early 90s.

Does it apply just to the portal? What if someone calls MS. I am not advocating any of this. While I have rented time to time for personal reasons, I think it's way out of control with the internet and resale companies.

What are the likely predictions for the resale businesses? Will Disney actually intervene?

Will the resale folks buy their own points as opposed to advertising for owners to "rent" their points? Guessing this one will be likely as some of the popular resale businesses are advertising to buy contracts at the same time they send out emails advertising "sale" prices for rented points/reservations.

Will there be more owner to owner transfers?

Another chapter...

 

[aoconnor]

I feel they should be more specific - something as vague as not renting your points "regularly or frequently" could scare average members who have legitimate needs to rent points more than Disney might think.

For example, what if you have one big contract but your travel plans have changed and you now need fewer points, but don't want to sell the whole thing. If you used say 70% of the points yourself annually and rented the remaining 30% each year is that against the rules?

They should just pick a number - like no more than 2 or 3 rented reservations per year per membership. That would address the people who are clearly renting as a business but give comfort for "regular" renting for owners.

 

[eticketplease]

Did they bring back the "This is not a DVC Member" checkbox?

We used to have to check that if renting points.

 

[Sandisw]

Lots of great questions.....my guess would be that when you call to make a reservation via Chat or call, they will have you attest to it being for personal use.



We know that they have changed the rules that you can only do one transfer in and out each year, even for owners. I do think that the rules changes for that were to shift owners away from renting and into doing more transfers.....but that is just my own thought.

The big thing about this is that now that one has to attest, and that added words that it did in terms it did...I think makes it easier for DVC to hold an owner of a membership accountable if they want to.

It still leaves it up to individual owners to choose how to interpret those words and your understanding of "occasional" and my understanding of "occassional" could be different....but it makes clear that DVC gets to decide that and IMO, its how it will become case by case.

I think for the resale companies, or any owner for that matter, who is renting regularly, it is going to be much harder to explain to DVC its not shifted from personal and commercial.

 

[Sandisw]

Did they bring back the "This is not a DVC Member" checkbox?

We used to have to check that if renting points.

That has never gone away...when you enter the names, you check they are not a member.....the words about "personal use" have been added to the check box when you confirm you booking.

 

[Brian Noble]

There also is a check box that you attest it’s personal use,,

Marriott has been doing this for a while. I am not sure if others do as well.

 

[eticketplease]

I feel they should be more specific - something as vague as not renting your points "regularly or frequently" could scare average members who have legitimate needs to rent points more than Disney might think.

For example, what if you have one big contract but your travel plans have changed and you now need fewer points, but don't want to sell the whole thing. If you used say 70% of the points yourself annually and rented the remaining 30% each year is that against the rules?

They should just pick a number - like no more than 2 or 3 rented reservations per year per membership. That would address the people who are clearly renting as a business but give comfort for "regular" renting for owners.

Being specific would be nice but it also cuts down on flexibility as well. If I want to rent my banked, borrowed and current use year points to swap for a cruise I should be able to do so. I also shouldn't be limited to 2-3 rentals as I might have some staying in a Studio for a week but others want a 2 bedroom for 2 nights. In this scenario I wouldn't care how many rentals were made as long as I was able to rent them all to pay for a cruise swap.

 

[eticketplease]

That has never gone away...when you enter the names, you check they are not a member.....the words about "personal use" have been added to the check box when you confirm you booking.

Really? I haven't noticed it in a few years. Perhaps its because it just takes my name by default.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Saw this post on FB and thought about posting it here but didn't, thank you for posting, I didn't see anyone else mention there is now a box to check. Does anyone happen to have these same T&C prior to June 1st to compare the language used?

 

[Brian Noble]

I feel they should be more specific - something as vague as not renting your points "regularly or frequently" could scare average members who have legitimate needs to rent points more than Disney might think.

This is not going to happen.

First, DVC is not going to be sad if average members are dissuaded from renting points. Second, DVC is absolutely not going to give clear bright lines, because that just tells the commercial outfits exactly what they can get away with---and they will just live inside those lines.

Instead, it is in DVC's interests to keep the rules vague enough that they can pick and choose whom to put in the crosshairs. You can bet that someone at Disney has an idea who the largest commercial renters are---after all, they or companies they control are doing most of the buy-strip-flipping in the market. They were also the ones doing many "personal" transfers until DVCMC cracked down on the one-per-year limit.

At some point, I expect a handful of those to be dealt with in a very high profile way. At least, that's what will happen if they follow in the footsteps of some other developers. And that will inject further FUD into the market place. I can tell you from watching this play out elsewhere that it is VERY EFFECTIVE to cancel a handful of rentals at the last minute with no notice, because those guests post everywhere, and the chilling effect on the market is immediate and thorough.

Wyndham did this at Bonnet Creek. In a few short months it went from the darling of the offsite board to something that hardly anyone talks about---and not in the Fight Club sense.

 

[Sandisw]

I feel they should be more specific - something as vague as not renting your points "regularly or frequently" could scare average members who have legitimate needs to rent points more than Disney might think.

For example, what if you have one big contract but your travel plans have changed and you now need fewer points, but don't want to sell the whole thing. If you used say 70% of the points yourself annually and rented the remaining 30% each year is that against the rules?

They should just pick a number - like no more than 2 or 3 rented reservations per year per membership. That would address the people who are clearly renting as a business but give comfort for "regular" renting for owners.

They are never going to do that and personally, I don't want them to because as you say, there may be a situation where someone needs to rent more frequently for a year than in the past and this still gives DVC the discretion.

But, what this new check box does is force owners to really think about it and attest its personal....those renting whose purpose was more commerical than personal could be viewed more regularly than in the past.

And, the language does support that owners can rent by saying personal use means you are not doing it regulary or frequently.....so, they have really covered both.

 

[VGCgroupie]

This language is close to what I remember from the early 90s.

Does it apply just to the portal? What if someone calls MS. I am not advocating any of this. While I have rented time to time for personal reasons, I think it's way out of control with the internet and resale companies.

What are the likely predictions for the resale businesses? Will Disney actually intervene?

Will the resale folks buy their own points as opposed to advertising for owners to "rent" their points? Guessing this one will be likely as some of the popular resale businesses are advertising to buy contracts at the same time they send out emails advertising "sale" prices for rented points/reservations.

Will there be more owner to owner transfers?

Another chapter...

Doing this and accepting money for it is against the rules so Id say no.

 

[Sandisw]

Saw this post on FB and thought about posting it here but didn't, thank you for posting, I didn't see anyone else mention there is now a box to check. Does anyone happen to have these same T&C prior to June 1st to compare the language used?

I posted a picture of the new checkbox above....the words "for personal use" are now there and in bold.....I don't have T & C prior to June 1st, but honestly, I don't remember them saying those same words....I think the section I posted above has been updated to be clearer...

 

[aoconnor]

Being specific would be nice but it also cuts down on flexibility as well. If I want to rent my banked, borrowed and current use year points to swap for a cruise I should be able to do so. I also shouldn't be limited to 2-3 rentals as I might have some staying in a Studio for a week but others want a 2 bedroom for 2 nights. In this scenario I wouldn't care how many rentals were made as long as I was able to rent them all to pay for a cruise swap.

I hear you, it could be something higher than 2-3 (the commercial renters I see on Facebook are posting literally dozens of reservations throughout the year).

Or maybe a limit over a time period -- like no more than 15 rented reservations in 5 years. That would give flexibility if things came up and you needed to rent more than normal in a given year or two.

 

[Sykes]

Saw this post on FB and thought about posting it here but didn't, thank you for posting, I didn't see anyone else mention there is now a box to check. Does anyone happen to have these same T&C prior to June 1st to compare the language used?

An old copy of the T&Cs is still posted here. I’m not sure if that is the last revision before this new one though.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I feel they should be more specific - something as vague as not renting your points "regularly or frequently" could scare average members who have legitimate needs to rent points more than Disney might think.

For example, what if you have one big contract but your travel plans have changed and you now need fewer points, but don't want to sell the whole thing. If you used say 70% of the points yourself annually and rented the remaining 30% each year is that against the rules?

They should just pick a number - like no more than 2 or 3 rented reservations per year per membership. That would address the people who are clearly renting as a business but give comfort for "regular" renting for owners.

Commercial renters know who they are and so does Disney. The member who rents every now and then isnt what they are targeting. There are masses of people who rent more reservations than they stay year after year. If you wonder hey is this commercial? Maybe you are renting too much

 

[eticketplease]

Really? I haven't noticed it in a few years. Perhaps its because it just takes my name by default.

@Sandisw It is still not there for me.
I changed names and it still didn't give me the option to state that they are not a DVC member.
I have not seen the box in quite a few years when making a reservation so I'm not sure when they removed it but I certainly remember it being there when making prior reservations.

The new T&C button does show.