DVC plans to target commercial renters

[AstroBlasters]

I'm just watching this again for fun.
It's kind of hilarious when Pete asks if any of the panel has ever done it and they all deny it. They all look like they are lying

The new show has found its stride and is more heart warming and inclusive and friendly…. but man did the old show have some golden moments….

 

[tx911]

The new show has found its stride and is more heart warming and inclusive and friendly…. but man did the old show have some golden moments….

Oh I agree, it's amazing. I watch it every week. They are genuine friends who all love Disney and each other.

 

[AstroBlasters]

When one doesn’t have a choice that’s what we must do.

I definitely will not be running…. and love jumping on the Peloton…. but if the weather is nice I have to keep the legs strong for our 25k daily step Disney trips.

 

[Sandisw]

The board said renting is not widespread? Or walking? I thought that comment was in reference to walking. If they said that about renting, then all hope is gone because they are in another universe completely.

Both..I was at two different meetings and that is what they said.

Remember , they are talking about commercial renting since that is what is not allowed.

They indicated it was not widespread because they have the information. They simply said that it’s the large point owners who have figured things out, which of course, impacts others.

Based on the statements shared, my take is that the reason they added more to the team was to get stricter at enforcement and speculating here, to update the way they even define it…ie: maybe find a way to apply across memberships?

ETA: here is the recap that was written up about the VGF meeting…it was one of the ones I was at.

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...mmercial-renting-walking-during-condo-meeting

 

[AstroBlasters]

Oh I agree, it's amazing. I watch it every week. They are genuine friends who all love Disney and each other.

I look forward to it every Monday.

 

[lowlight]

Both..I was at two different meetings and that is what they said.

Remember , they are talking about commercial renting since that is what is not allowed.

They indicated it was not widespread because they have the information. They simply said that it’s the large point owners who have figured things out, which of course, impacts others.

Based on the statements shared, my take is that the reason they added more to the team was to get stricter at enforcement and speculating here, to update the way they even define it…ie: maybe find a way to apply across memberships?

ETA: here is the recap that was written up about the VGF meeting…it was one of the ones I was at.

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...mmercial-renting-walking-during-condo-meeting

The headline of the article says they made "strong statements against commercial renting and walking". I'll defer to you since you were there, but it certainly seems from Shannon Sakaske's statement that they have an issue with owner #2 as well, and only consider #3 a viable option. Someone renting purposely purchased excess points every year isn't an occasional renter by any means. Enough that I wouldn't feel comfortable owning excess points with the intent to pay all my dues every year and also my vacation.

 

[Nabas]

And all of those owners want a standard studio for Food and Wine

Actually, with the recent Point Chart change, I'd say the first two weeks in December are now the most in-demand for DVC members.

I booked December 1, 2025 earlier today at AKV. Within an hour, the only Studio left was AKV-Kidani Savanna View!

 

[muppets3d]

Unless you stop on the week they wanted. Not to mention them having to deal with the uncertainty if and when the room becomes available behind the walk.

Then if you don't walk, you've taken the room they wanted anyway. So the net effect is the same.

 

[tx911]

Then if you don't walk, you've taken the room they wanted anyway. So the net effect is the same.

If we’re talking about a 7 night stay, they already have the first 6 nights booked the day before

 

[Sandisw]

The headline of the article says they made "strong statements against commercial renting and walking". I'll defer to you since you were there, but it certainly seems from Shannon Sakaske's statement that they have an issue with owner #2 as well, and only consider #3 a viable option. Someone renting purposely purchased excess points every year isn't an occasional renter by any means. Enough that I wouldn't feel comfortable owning excess points with the intent to pay all my dues every year and also my vacation.

Having been there, that wasn’t the sense and that they really were looking at the high point owners who were in it for commercial reasons, not your owner who buys extra points to offset dues especially since it was given as an example).

They definitely said several times that they recognize owners ability to rent.

But, who knows what they will decide. I personally do not see the examples for option rising to being considered a business.

Others obviously do so I guess we will see where DVC lands on this.

But, based on the statement that they don’t see this a widespread, it at least implies that the board doesnt see a lot of owners who they feel are renting in a way that crosses the line.

I do agree if you are a large point owner, and rent, I’d be cautious too.

But, if some has say 500 points and is renting 250 yearly to offset dues, I simply have a hard time believing they will be deeming that commercial, especially given the way they have defined it in the past.

 

[muppets3d]

If we’re talking about a 7 night stay, they already have the first 6 nights booked the day before

Right, and so could the other owner. Walking isn't necessary all the time for all room types, but for some room types and some times of the year - it is necessary.

 

[Cyberc1978]

The reason why these threads go on for 40+ pages is because there are people here who are commercial renters and do mental gymnastics to try to reason themselves out of their future reality when DVC taps on their shoulder

If you have an opinion which is not in favor of DVC making a change because “be careful what you wish for” then automatically you become a commercial renter

Wow just wow.

There are people in forums elsewhere that may not be here on disboards that have discussed this. Tons of people want them to crack down on commercial renting, the only ones I saw that think there isn’t a problem with commercial renting were people who actively rent out for profit.

So there are tons of people whining, you state that as facts? Assuming you are correct, tons would be like 1-4.000 members, what about the remaining 246.000 members who are not whining and are satisfied? Should 4.000 whining members try and convince DVC to make a change which might not be in favor of all members but only the whining ones?

 

[nalababybear]

Well, it does to anyone who doesn’t see those as using a membership as commercial at this point.

Remember, if DVC decides those actions count as commercial, they don’t need to change the contract because that’s what the contract allows them to do now. Enforce a reasonable definition of using a membership for commercial purposes.

If a contract change would be needed to include those, then we are giving DVC the right to limit personal renting.

And while you may have an idea of what that looks like, DVC could very well decide it’s something else.

So, I will never be in favor of contract change that gives DVC more power to limit our use.

Also, the board stated that this is not widespread…regardless of if that is true or not, that statement alone does seem imply that it’s not the major problem that some feel it is.

Exactly this. I think many would take constaining rules as an unfavorable change.

Very few like that overbearing HOA board even when they espouse keeping the riffraff out.

@lowlight . There is a lot of daylight between your two groups. A lot. Mid-level is several thousand? Also there's a litany of folk doing <1000 point rentals.....basically 95% of the rental thread.

 

[xdan0920]

If you have an opinion which is not in favor of DVC making a change because “be careful what you wish for” then automatically you become a commercial renter

Wow just wow

How many points do you rent a year? On average?

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

The words pattern of rental activity are pretty important. The pre RIv resorts include that what is decided is reasonable for commercial.
…DVC can certainly decide to tighten the rules to make pattern more than a number of reservations…they simply need to be able to frame it as a reasonable way to define commercial.

Thst is why I keep going back to the type of room isn’t really relevant in terms of what DVC can or should do.

We’ve talked across each other a few times but I want to try to explain it one more time because I think it’s key— if Disney is looking for a way to define commercial activity that is reasonable and objective, renting the highest profitability and most in demand rooms and times they are most desired (for owners and renters) is definitionally commercial. Sure once in a few years one of the reservations you can’t use might happen to be a BW studio during food and wine. But if you’re regularly spec renting then, it’s because you’re doing it as a commercial activity. We all know there are a handful of room types specifically targeted by renters and maximizing profit is the reason.

18 minutes is about 17 minutes and 30 seconds too long for most. We're talking 30 seconds of distilled knowledge. I have faith in you.

Lowlight, if you cannot make 9 minutes to watch a video on 2x speed, how are you possible going to make the 5 minutes twice a week for several weeks necessary to walk?

The headline of the article says they made "strong statements against commercial renting and walking". I'll defer to you since you were there, but it certainly seems from Shannon Sakaske's statement that they have an issue with owner #2 as well, and only consider #3 a viable option. Someone renting purposely purchased excess points every year isn't an occasional renter by any means. Enough that I wouldn't feel comfortable owning excess points with the intent to pay all my dues every year and also my vacation.

I agree option 2 is legally commercial renting but in less confident about how Disney sees it yet. I would be surprised if they think it’s worth the effort to target owners who are under 1000 points and actually use more than half of their points in the first wave— but I also don’t think they needed to hire a team of people (or anybody!) to look at solving the problem if they were going to shut down the ~10 obvious worst offenders and call it a day. My guess is that “Type 2” enforcement starts with people renting several hundred points (or more) of the most in demand studios…but I’m not sure if that means 700 or 7000, I’d guess somewhere in between.

What we really need is to stop all those lowly SSR owners from booking our precious hard to get resorts at 7 months. Let’s have a vote on that. No bookings allowed other than home resorts.

Boy are you going to be happy with the new restricted resale product.

But, based on the statement that they don’t see this a widespread, it at least implies that the board doesnt see a lot of owners who they feel are renting in a way that crosses the line.

The thing is a lot of people sitting on 1000-2000 points don’t self-identify as as top 1% of members, but my guess is that the entire category of people who own more than 500 points total is “not widespread” — so I wouldn’t find that language reassuring if I owned more than 1000 points and rented half of them. I think they could stop all renters renting more than a few hundred points a year and it would be a tiny fraction of the membership.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Assuming you are correct, tons would be like 1-4.000 members, what about the remaining 246.000 members who are not whining and are satisfied?

lol that is an oddly specific amount for a word that doesn’t actually detail a specific number in this situation. Could tons not be 10,000? Or 100,00? Literally not a single person here knows how the greater majority of members feels. Your numbers are as wrong or as right as anyone else’s. All we have is admittedly arbitrary (but not irrelevant) evidence based on the few outlets people are posting about DVC.

And yes, based on these niche and specific outlets we are all making generalizations and assumptions. I don’t think it’s crazy to assume the numbers are bigger than they ever were before. Probably because the access, education and business of rentals and renting has become significantly more prevalent in recent years. Funny that.

Disney using statements like these infractions aren’t widespread can mean any number of things. They’re going to be as vague and calm as possible to not inspire panic or distrust in the system. But it’s big enough of an issue that they feel it needs to be addressed in some capacity because enough members (tons perhaps?) have complained or voiced concern. You can continue to be in denial that it’s an issue and label a potentially not-so-small group of members as a bunch of whiners, but Disney disagrees with you. We just don’t know to what degree.

 

[lowlight]

If you have an opinion which is not in favor of DVC making a change because “be careful what you wish for” then automatically you become a commercial renter

Wow just wow.


So there are tons of people whining, you state that as facts? Assuming you are correct, tons would be like 1-4.000 members, what about the remaining 246.000 members who are not whining and are satisfied? Should 4.000 whining members try and convince DVC to make a change which might not be in favor of all members but only the whining ones?

You don't want to be labeled as a commercial renter for being opposed to it, but everyone who supports it is a whiner? Hmm.

Let's examine the reasons someone would defend renting:

1) Be careful what you wish for, aka the cure is worse than the disease
2) You're a renter

Let's examine the reasons someone would be against renting:

1) Renting harms all owners in tangible and intangible ways, whether they realize it or not

Nobody has really defended the "be careful what you wish for" argument, though. Using what other timeshares have done to curb commercial renting, courtesy of Brian Noble, none of it appears "worse than the disease" UNLESS you are renting for profit. So make your argument, what reasonable regulation on renting is a "careful what you wish for" scenario, and why are we whiners?

 

[Cfabar1]

Oh I agree, it's amazing. I watch it every week. They are genuine friends who all love Disney and each other.

or at least are good at pretending they are! Either way, it is much more enjoyable!

PS - this is a joke, and I assume they all get along with each other as much as they seem to on the show!

 

[xdan0920]

So make your argument, what reasonable regulation on renting is a "careful what you wish for" scenario, and why are we whiners?

If I want to gift stays to my brothers sisters aunts cousin. Now Disney will arrest me. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[DougEMG]

Boy are you going to be happy with the new restricted resale product.

I actually bought 2 resale RIV contracts specifically because I want to stay at RIV so it doesn't bother me that the points can't be used elsewhere. I've got other points that I can use to book else if I want to, but it has been 6 years since I've booked a non-home resort.

Personally, while I am not impacted the resale restrictions, I don't like them. These days you need a chart to keep track of what you can do based on when, where and how you bought your points and that stinks and makes the product harder to use.

I also think that DVC should not be allowed to trade into RIV the number of points that can trade out.