DVC/Disney has lost the Magic.

[TagsMissy]

There was a case before where a college age person actually had obtained a valid driver's license from the state where they resided at college. That would then preclude them from still being a legal resident in their parent's home.

So as long as they still have a valid driver's license with the state and address of the parents, they should be good to go with a discounted DVC AP.

that's where my confusion was and was my only concern in this case when the OP mentioned his kid had an old DL with their address on it; it seemed that he no longer lived at home -- however the op finally made it clear a page or two in that his kid was away at college but returned home every year. A lot of the issues with this posting wouldn't even have come up I don't think if the Op was clear in the first posting. All is good now from what the Op has said and kudos to them. I certainly know I am famous for THINKING I was clear when I typed something but the problem was I was thinking it and never typed it.

 

[PBB]

Imagine the DVC family that has 37 children all buying season passes, and 15 grown ups?

And, if you see that much of a huge increase in buying, it may go away and that would be a bad thing.

Disney would just make a reality show out of these people and make a bunch of money.

I would imagine Disney would be happy selling all those passes that is there business. DVC and WDW have a symbiotic relationship. I would imagine the goal of Disney is to have a stabilize base of customers for the park in good and bad economic times.

 

[PBB]

Step away from Disney and just sell. Now, I disagree with just about all of what you said, but, thats my opinion. I have had ONE bad CM, and she was at the checkin at AKV. Other than that, we have been treated fantastically, from gift baskets, to the Manager of SSR sending an employee to DD to get me a pin that was just released, and when it wasn't there, THEY bought it, and fedex'd it to me...Our guide has given the kids hats, cards, magnets...To us, everything has been great. I disagree with the park competition, you cannot compare them.

You are still in the honeymoon mode. I am unsure how long you have been going to WDW. I have been going since it opened. I was a chat room host and board moderator about Disney on AOL. I have been a DVC owner for 12 years. I have been involved with Disney in projects at WDW and HK. So, I am feel capable to form an educated opinion of historical decline with Disney.

Interesting how you note that you are happy that they gave you gift baskets and had a castmembers spend DVC money purchasing you a pin and fedexing it to you. I wonder if that was charged to Disney or in the DVC Annual dues that other members had to pay with their money. What happens when DVC stops buying you things ? I wonder how you would feel if you Disney denies your child advertised perks that is due them.

All I wanted was them to give me a perk that was advertised in the Members Only Section of the DVC website. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household. Disney accepts the card number over the phone when they are purchased over the phone. So, they are looking for the number and they want a valid (not expired) drivers license. DVC could have said......Could you fax or email a copy of the card ? I would have been glad to do that. They just made up rules that did not match what was written.

 

[Chuck S]

Disney accepts the card number over the phone when they are purchased over the phone.

You can not purchase an activated AP over the phone, only a voucher or will call certificate number. You still need to present your membership card and ID when redeeming that voucher or will call for the actual pass.

 

[Oshawa]

I also think you should walk away. Yes, we are still in the "honeymoon stage" of our membership also but we very much enjoy our purchase. Have not had any issues with CM's or anyone at DVC. I totally would have handled the situation differently but that is just me. I have been in customere service for years. If all you see is the negative now then it's time to sell. Hope you make the right decision for you and your family but don't make us feel guilty for enjoying our membership.

 

[dmoore22]

That said, the rules you quoted do specifically state that the Member has to be present:

"Members must present their DVC Member ID Card..."

Actually that is incorrect. The rules do state "When" and "Who" must "present their DVC Member ID Card..." but does not state "what and how." They do not specifically state that the Member has to be present .There is a very valid reason for Disney and DVD leaving it a rather open-ended statement. On January 17, 1997, the Department of Justice and Walt Disney Co. (Disney) signed an agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to correct discriminatory practices against individuals with disabilities and to provide equal access to its programs and services. Access is not limited to "physical" access or presence. It can be through the use of current and future technologies . The agreement with the Justice Department further states that "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication" and "In that regard, WDW shall notify the Department every six months as to any changes and developments in the types of auxiliary aids provided until December 1, 2000." It also states "The parties understand that nothing contained in this Agreement limits in any way the Department's ability to enforce the ADA against WDW in the future should it not be in compliance with the ADA." The agreement was last revised April 28, 2008.

Since it is a violation of ADA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ask an individual if they have a disability, it is in the best interest of the company, any company with more than 15 employees, to have general guidelines that will not appear to be limiting access to its programs and services. An individual with a disability can volunteer information for the purposes of, for example, an interpreter or auxiliary aids. The company can have a general nondiscrimination statement to the general public to the effect that if you have any special needs you should contact a specific number/person to have those needs addressed. The company can not ask an individual if they are disabled. The Office for Civil Rights has also stated that any modifications/accommodations available to disabled individuals may also be available to non-disabled individuals. Hence the latitude Disney and DVC is taking so as to avoid another confrontation with the DOJ or the risk of becoming a test case. So much for a super short Cliff Notes version.

This current situation and its resolution is a prime example of how "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication." Whenever DVC members contact MS they are asked for their Member ID Number. But that is not enough. The MS will ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#, or the home phone/address, or both, for verification that this indeed is the member with a valid DVC Member ID card with whom MS is speaking. Whenever technology is developed to enhance the quality of life for individuals with disabilities it trickles over to benefit all individuals. Future technologies will make processes even more user friendly. The idea of physical presence is no longer as important as it was 5 or ten years ago. No rules were broken or stretched. The DOJ agreement was followed, along with the mandated ADA compliance plan.

 

[canabrits2]

This is kinda a grey situation now for me -- I do not know how a child away for college works with DVC. Technically he isn't physically living at home right now but is away at school but returns for 1/3 of the year to your home. Does that make him eligible I do not know?

"Children" generally do not go away for college. With a couple of exceptions, they are 18 and over; legal adults who happen to still have a permanent address at mum and dad's place while attending higher education. My feeling is that these are adults, not dependant children living at home...hence beign taken off taxes. If he was not attending college and was working full-time as a carpenter, he'd be considered a seperate adult and not a child of the family.

I'm one who also says that rules are rules are rules and apply to everyone. Yes, a few times an exception is made due to managerial discretion, I agree with that but one shouldn't feel "entitled" to an exception. The entitlement attitude is rampant nowadays....

 

[BIERMUGG]

Imagine the DVC family that has 37 children all buying season passes, and 15 grown ups?

And, if you see that much of a huge increase in buying, it may go away and that would be a bad thing.

But don't you think with that many people they will send a lot of money in the parks regardless of if they go all at once or separately

 

[tjkraz]

Actually that is incorrect. The rules do state "When" and "Who" must "present their DVC Member ID Card..." but does not state "what and how." They do not specifically state that the Member has to be present .There is a very valid reason for Disney and DVD leaving it a rather open-ended statement. On January 17, 1997, the Department of Justice and Walt Disney Co. (Disney) signed an agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to correct discriminatory practices against individuals with disabilities and to provide equal access to its programs and services. Access is not limited to "physical" access or presence. It can be through the use of current and future technologies . The agreement with the Justice Department further states that "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication" and "In that regard, WDW shall notify the Department every six months as to any changes and developments in the types of auxiliary aids provided until December 1, 2000." It also states "The parties understand that nothing contained in this Agreement limits in any way the Department's ability to enforce the ADA against WDW in the future should it not be in compliance with the ADA." The agreement was last revised April 28, 2008.

Since it is a violation of ADA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ask an individual if they have a disability, it is in the best interest of the company, any company with more than 15 employees, to have general guidelines that will not appear to be limiting access to its programs and services. An individual with a disability can volunteer information for the purposes of, for example, an interpreter or auxiliary aids. The company can have a general nondiscrimination statement to the general public to the effect that if you have any special needs you should contact a specific number/person to have those needs addressed. The company can not ask an individual if they are disabled. The Office for Civil Rights has also stated that any modifications/accommodations available to disabled individuals may also be available to non-disabled individuals. Hence the latitude Disney and DVC is taking so as to avoid another confrontation with the DOJ or the risk of becoming a test case. So much for a super short Cliff Notes version.

This current situation and its resolution is a prime example of how "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication." Whenever DVC members contact MS they are asked for their Member ID Number. But that is not enough. The MS will ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#, or the home phone/address, or both, for verification that this indeed is the member with a valid DVC Member ID card with whom MS is speaking. Whenever technology is developed to enhance the quality of life for individuals with disabilities it trickles over to benefit all individuals. Future technologies will make processes even more user friendly. The idea of physical presence is no longer as important as it was 5 or ten years ago. No rules were broken or stretched. The DOJ agreement was followed, along with the mandated ADA compliance plan.

Well, I'm certainly not going to argue ADA law with you. You clearly know far more about it than I do.

However, I still stand by my prior comments that DVC Member Services has consistently stated that a card-carrying DVC member must be present in order for an eligible family member to purchase the discounted pass. I have first-hand knowledge of people who emailed MS to inquire about purchasing the pass for an adult child. In each case the response was that a deeded member must be physically present at the time of purchase.

In the first post of this thread OP stated:

"I spoke to a manager finally who I finally read the rules from the DVC member site that stated that our family was entitled to a discount. However, my wife would have to be there to purchase the ticket. "

Whether or not the policy is appropriate, it's what is being communicated to members. Perhaps OP's conversation with a DVC exec will prompt changes. We'll see...

 

[TisBit]

You are still in the honeymoon mode. I am unsure how long you have been going to WDW. I have been going since it opened. I was a chat room host and board moderator about Disney on AOL. I have been a DVC owner for 12 years. I have been involved with Disney in projects at WDW and HK. So, I am feel capable to form an educated opinion of historical decline with Disney.

Interesting how you note that you are happy that they gave you gift baskets and had a castmembers spend DVC money purchasing you a pin and fedexing it to you. I wonder if that was charged to Disney or in the DVC Annual dues that other members had to pay with their money. What happens when DVC stops buying you things ? I wonder how you would feel if you Disney denies your child advertised perks that is due them.

All I wanted was them to give me a perk that was advertised in the Members Only Section of the DVC website. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household. Disney accepts the card number over the phone when they are purchased over the phone. So, they are looking for the number and they want a valid (not expired) drivers license. DVC could have said......Could you fax or email a copy of the card ? I would have been glad to do that. They just made up rules that did not match what was written.

Interesting on how you are attacking others in the same manner you are complaining about them attacking you. Disney gave in and are allowing you to get the pass that you feel your son is "entitled" to get without you being present. Shouldn't you be happy now?

How is your anger towards Disney better than what you call them being in the "honeymoon" period. Apparently you are burnt out and feel betrayed, why is that opinion more valid?

 

[PBB]

You can not purchase an activated AP over the phone, only a voucher or will call certificate number. You still need to present your membership card and ID when redeeming that voucher or will call for the actual pass.

You can purchase the AP over the phone, you then receive a certificate or voucher via mail. When the my child takes it to the park they must show a "valid drivers license" that shows the address of the member and they process the pass.

 

[dmoore22]

Well, I'm certainly not going to argue ADA law with you. You clearly know far more about it than I do.

However, I still stand by my prior comments that DVC Member Services has consistently stated that a card-carrying DVC member must be present in order for an eligible family member to purchase the discounted pass. I have first-hand knowledge of people who emailed MS to inquire about purchasing the pass for an adult child. In each case the response was that a deeded member must be physically present at the time of purchase.

In the first post of this thread OP stated:

"I spoke to a manager finally who I finally read the rules from the DVC member site that stated that our family was entitled to a discount. However, my wife would have to be there to purchase the ticket. "


Whether or not the policy is appropriate, it's what is being communicated to members. Perhaps OP's conversation with a DVC exec will prompt changes. We'll see...

"WDW will continue to improve upon the training and training techniques and consider new and better ways of informing its' cast members in this area whenever possible. WDW shall provide training materials to the Department of Justice for periodic review, upon request from the Department."

--Agreement between Walt Disney World Co. (WDW) and the United States Department of Justice

Obviously what Member Services says has not been consistent with the DVC Member Benefits Guide and DOJ agreement. The training of CMs is apparently still a work in progress with a very long way to go.

 

[palhockeymomof2]

"Children" generally do not go away for college. With a couple of exceptions, they are 18 and over; legal adults who happen to still have a permanent address at mum and dad's place while attending higher education. My feeling is that these are adults, not dependant children living at home...hence beign taken off taxes. If he was not attending college and was working full-time as a carpenter, he'd be considered a seperate adult and not a child of the family.

I'm one who also says that rules are rules are rules and apply to everyone. Yes, a few times an exception is made due to managerial discretion, I agree with that but one shouldn't feel "entitled" to an exception. The entitlement attitude is rampant nowadays....

I've got 2 kids in college..one lives full time at home since she goes to a local college and one goes to FGCU in Florida...yes he is at school more than he is home(but his DL is here & he votes here) but he does not make enough money to support himself...they may both be over 18 and legally adults but we support both of them while they got to school and can take them as dependents on our tax returns.

From reading prior posts and the DVC info on the DVC annual passes.....the age of the child...or if they are a legal adult isn't an issue since you can get the discount for your parents who live at the same address as you and have valid id to prove it.

 

[Sammie]

It bothers me that so many are willing to accept DVC's short comings, and I am not necessarily referring to this one incident but many others and simply say walk away and sell.

Would you sell your home if your nieighborhood became less than what it was when you bought, or would you try at least first to see if things could be improved.

I can accept change, things that have been done to balance the points, while I personally might not like at first; understand the need and accept it. I will never agree they did it in the right manner, just as I don't think it is appropriate to recieve the guide books after the first of the year. Or stop valet without some type of communication at least going out to members a few days before it happened. Just very bad PR in my opinion.

I used valet service but understand that it would not be fair to make everyone pay for a service that few were using.

However I am disappointed that what I bought is gradually changing to the point at times I don't recoginize it anymore. I bought well maintained resorts even if they were aging, great customer service 99% of the time and clean rooms when checking in. My last visits I have not received any of that.

I know many are simply too new to DVC to notice the differences, because while the product has changed it is not horrible. Which is probably why so many will aspect the lesser product.

I also know that many have been very lucky and not experienced the bad. I have to wonder when you do will you then be so quick to think everything is fine.

And then there are some for whatever reason simply will never see DVC in any eyes except those covered in rose colored glasses.

I personally am not willing to just give up and sell because between the head guy and the lowest there are still some great people working for DVC, that do care. I just have to think that the upper management has lost sight of what DVC was, and that existing members are just as important as new sales. I am also greatly disappointed that one of the best member satisfaction cast members is not in that position anymore, but moved to answering phones at Member Services. Now instead of having someone on the team that truly listened, and relayed concerns to upper management, you have just another person giving you the DVC spin on everything.

DVC would do good to look at the mess that Toyota is in. For years Toyota was the Disney of car manufacturers. They were the best, they were service oriented and they built a product that would last for years over its competetion. But they became more concerned with making money and not taking care of their customers. It will be a long time before many will buy from them due to their treatment of current Toyota owners.

DVC might want to remember the best salespersons for DVC, is a DVC member. I for one will not be selling anything for them at the present time.

 

[corpcomp]

We love DVC. Period. Love the rooms, love the People, love the discounts, love ME (but hate the AP prices). Most are generally nice and helpful and we have a great time every time we are there (bearing in mind some funky food we have had at the Si Fi Diner). The MS person I just talked to about a waitlist was so nice and perky, I thought it was her first day on the job!

 

[TagsMissy]

"Children" generally do not go away for college. With a couple of exceptions, they are 18 and over; legal adults who happen to still have a permanent address at mum and dad's place while attending higher education. My feeling is that these are adults, not dependant children living at home...hence beign taken off taxes. If he was not attending college and was working full-time as a carpenter, he'd be considered a seperate adult and not a child of the family.

I'm one who also says that rules are rules are rules and apply to everyone. Yes, a few times an exception is made due to managerial discretion, I agree with that but one shouldn't feel "entitled" to an exception. The entitlement attitude is rampant nowadays....

The kid, a collage age kid is still their child. No matter what you are always someone's child but thank you for enlightening me as to what a college student is. In this case this person's CHILD is a college student who is away for school but returns home when his term/semester/whatever you want to call it is over. There is no debate here. DIsney doesn't just allow dependent children to be given benefits such as the discount on passes... it extends to parents, kids, siblings, in laws, etc as long as they live under the same roof.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Actually that is incorrect. The rules do state "When" and "Who" must "present their DVC Member ID Card..." but does not state "what and how." They do not specifically state that the Member has to be present .There is a very valid reason for Disney and DVD leaving it a rather open-ended statement. On January 17, 1997, the Department of Justice and Walt Disney Co. (Disney) signed an agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to correct discriminatory practices against individuals with disabilities and to provide equal access to its programs and services. Access is not limited to "physical" access or presence. It can be through the use of current and future technologies . The agreement with the Justice Department further states that "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication" and "In that regard, WDW shall notify the Department every six months as to any changes and developments in the types of auxiliary aids provided until December 1, 2000." It also states "The parties understand that nothing contained in this Agreement limits in any way the Department's ability to enforce the ADA against WDW in the future should it not be in compliance with the ADA." The agreement was last revised April 28, 2008.

Since it is a violation of ADA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ask an individual if they have a disability, it is in the best interest of the company, any company with more than 15 employees, to have general guidelines that will not appear to be limiting access to its programs and services. An individual with a disability can volunteer information for the purposes of, for example, an interpreter or auxiliary aids. The company can have a general nondiscrimination statement to the general public to the effect that if you have any special needs you should contact a specific number/person to have those needs addressed. The company can not ask an individual if they are disabled. The Office for Civil Rights has also stated that any modifications/accommodations available to disabled individuals may also be available to non-disabled individuals. Hence the latitude Disney and DVC is taking so as to avoid another confrontation with the DOJ or the risk of becoming a test case. So much for a super short Cliff Notes version.

This current situation and its resolution is a prime example of how "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication." Whenever DVC members contact MS they are asked for their Member ID Number. But that is not enough. The MS will ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#, or the home phone/address, or both, for verification that this indeed is the member with a valid DVC Member ID card with whom MS is speaking. Whenever technology is developed to enhance the quality of life for individuals with disabilities it trickles over to benefit all individuals. Future technologies will make processes even more user friendly. The idea of physical presence is no longer as important as it was 5 or ten years ago. No rules were broken or stretched. The DOJ agreement was followed, along with the mandated ADA compliance plan.

I am having a bit of trouble following this, but are you saying that the ADA and the agreement Disney reached with the DOJ prohibits Disney from requiring the physical presence of a person in connection with the issuance of theme park tickets?

If that is really the case, Disney violates this all the time. At the present time, the physical presence of each person is required to convert a GAD GADD voucher to a theme park ticket, i.e., parents cannot get the tickets for their children unless their children are physically present. Last year (and possibily this year) the physical presence of a person with appropriate military ID was requried to get the Military Salute tickets.

While I am sure that there may be some services that cannot be limited to only those physically present due to the ADA, since use of a ticket to a Theme Park requires physical presence at the Theme Park, requiring that presence to issue a theme park ticket appears to be perfectly legitimate.

-- Suzanne

 

[deebits]

How does a regular family with children purchase the AP with DVC? If the child lives at home, as per the driver id, then I do not see what the problem is him getting the discount. It is not like the address is different. Can you not add him to the DVC account so he will receive the memebers card? My DH and I both are both members with different last names. We purchased DVC after we go married and I had not officially changed my last name to his. I ordered his annual pass over the phone in May because we have different anniversary dates, went to Disney with a friend of mine, showed my ID with my last name and got his annual pass. The woman at the window never questioned anything. I even bought my marriage license just in case there was a question.

So how does someone who has a grown child get the annual pass for them? I just do not see why there is a problem if the child still "lives at home".

 

[Muushka]

This thread reminds me of our congress.......

 

[going/again]

I suspect the idea is that if the perk is abused, it ain't gonna stick around. Disney sacrifices $100-125 for every AP purchased so I would expect them to be somewhat rigid in how the perk is administered.

Disney sacrifices nothing, they make decisions that benefit Disney