DVC directions and growth

[Boardwalker]

Am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with DVC moving into non-themepark destinations? The idea that DVC is going in the direction of being a more of a timeshare chain to compete in the hotel market instead of being tied to the themeparks really feels like a bad move. I like the special niche that DVC had, and I feel a loss of cache that will end up lessening the value of our memberships.
Maybe I am feeling that DVC expansion is just becoming more of a priority than it should be. I would rather have the option of trading out than of having resorts in competitive markets.
Maybe DVC is just beginning to feel too big to me. It used to have the feel of a private club, now it feels more like Sam's Club. I just feel that DVC membership is getting too big too fast, and what we are losing in the growth is good will. The boards are full of complaints about maintenance and service.
If each resort supports itself with the maintenance fees of the members, should I not worry about each new venture having an effect on the other properties? Of course the 7 month competition is going to get ridiculous. We have already lost most of the flexibility of being to take advantage of airfare sales to book a last minute trip.
What are your opinions and concerns? Am I being niave in my views that DVC is heading in the wrong direction? I am certainly no real estate mogul. I just have a gut feeling that this is going too far too fast.

 

[3DisneyKids]

There is no easy answer to this one. While I am happy about the HI expansion, I definitely see your point about growing so fast...unrestrained growth is NEVER a good thing for any organization. And I do worry that they are biting off more than they can chew.

I heard that the revenue that each DVC resort makes is 1,000,000 per month. This is HUGE. (As stated by Pete, owner and operator of the DIS). DVC is a huge revenue stream for the Disney Company, so they are trying to maximize that. But at what cost to quality and service? TIme will tell.

 

[tvwalsh]

I agree that the niche that have proven successful for DVC has been the development of timeshare resorts inside WDW. I do not think it is much of a stretch to expect that GCV will be a success with its location inside Disneyland. I also think that the owners of these points will be a net asset to the system in that they will be more likely to use their GCV points, as well as others they may have at GCV. They will not be excessively roaming owners who prefer other resorts to their own.

Unfortunately, resorts developed outside of the parks, will continue to increase the pressure on the popular properties inside of the parks.

I also am afraid that Disney will repeat its failures,VB andHH, with slow selling resorts that need to be discounted and which are not nearly as profitable as the ones built in the parks.

 

[Chuck S]

Am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with DVC moving into non-themepark destinations? The idea that DVC is going in the direction of being a more of a timeshare chain to compete in the hotel market instead of being tied to the themeparks really feels like a bad move. I like the special niche that DVC had, and I feel a loss of cache that will end up lessening the value of our memberships.
Maybe I am feeling that DVC expansion is just becoming more of a priority than it should be. I would rather have the option of trading out than of having resorts in competitive markets.
Maybe DVC is just beginning to feel too big to me. It used to have the feel of a private club, now it feels more like Sam's Club. I just feel that DVC membership is getting too big too fast, and what we are losing in the growth is good will. The boards are full of complaints about maintenance and service.
If each resort supports itself with the maintenance fees of the members, should I not worry about each new venture having an effect on the other properties? Of course the 7 month competition is going to get ridiculous. We have already lost most of the flexibility of being to take advantage of airfare sales to book a last minute trip.
What are your opinions and concerns? Am I being niave in my views that DVC is heading in the wrong direction? I am certainly no real estate mogul. I just have a gut feeling that this is going too far too fast.

It was the original plan of DVC to build off-site resorts. Remember, the first 3 DVCs were OKW, VB and HHI, and there were plans for Colorado, Newport Beach, and New York. After slow sales at VB, they then concentrated on building a slew of DVCs at WDW. I think a good balance can be made between off-site and on-site locations, as long as the off-site location have a substantial draw/popularity.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I'm feeling the same way. How many members who buy at a non-theme park location will want to stay at WDW for the holidays or Spring Break? I think it will make the more popular times even MORE popular and tougher to get. It might make trading out less popular (or even non-existent). We're in the process of selling two of our contracts and will probably keep about half of our total points. Maybe less after a while.

Just how popular has trading out to II been? I know we have never really been interested.

Maybe Disney is going to kill the golden goose. DVC has been a profitable branch of the company. [Insert dead goose smiley here]

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with DVC moving into non-themepark destinations? The idea that DVC is going in the direction of being a more of a timeshare chain to compete in the hotel market instead of being tied to the themeparks really feels like a bad move. I like the special niche that DVC had, and I feel a loss of cache that will end up lessening the value of our memberships.
.

I dont agree at all

before SSR came along DVC actaully had a greater % of their resorts OFF property. 67% on, 33% off

ON: OKW, VWL, BCV, BWV
OFF: VB, HHI

now with SSR, AKV, and GC nad Hawaii you have 7 on and 3 off. 70% at the parks

AND many would think there still another to come at WDW(CR) and probably will be another at DL

so I dont see how you can argue that there are too many off site resorts and they are not tied to the theme parks

 

[alldiz]

I'm a little nervous about the quick growth....
Or "projected growth"....Let's see how AKL does.....if SSR
sells out when projected.
How fast GVC sells out?

I really like the opportunity to go outside of Disney and still
have the "disney" experience....Not to the expense of existing
DVC's though.
Time will tell
Kerri

 

[blueroses]

I think the expansion of DVC is just another part of Disney's strategy to become a "vacation brand" instead of just a theme park brand. Adventures by Disney, DVC, the cruiseline...these are all part of the expansion and by most accounts have been successful.

It will be interesting to see how "Disney" the HI DVC resort is. It will also be interesting to see how Disney competes in the HI vacation property market, which is much more upscale than the theme park properties.

I like the growth. There's 40 years of vacationing still on my AKV contract and I know I'll want more options as I get older and one day retire. I don't know that I will buy at that specific resort, but I know I'll be buying more points as my needs change and will want to use them at locations outside of Orlando.

(For context - I'm one of those West Coasters who goes to HI every holiday season.)

 

[Boardwalker]

Maybe Disney is going to kill the golden goose. DVC has been a profitable branch of the company. [Insert dead goose smiley here]

I think that is it exactly. Eventually when they sell the non-themepark linked units, the more people competeing for the themepark rooms and the less overall satisfaction of the owners when they realize how hard it will be to get the themepark resorts. Even just the west coast... only 200 units at DL... how many HI units will be DVC?
And this seems to be a direction they are pursuing... building hotels and with DVC units in tourist markets.
Maybe the numbers of DVC units will be small enough not to overwhelm the balance and I am just overreacting. I really hope so.

 

[donmil723]

I think change in general can cause anxiety as we get comfortable with things as they are. But, if a company doesn't continue to grow and change with the times, they also run the risk of becoming obsolete and failing.

I trust that Disney (DVC) has applied what they have learned from their past "mistakes" prior to making a decision on their Hawaiian venture. I am sure they have thoroughly researched and developed a long-term plan which may or may not be what most of us envision the future of DVC to be.

My DH and I have our own business and he is more of a risk taker than I. Thank goodness he was, and is, and that we have a good financial planner, or our business would not have grown over the years.

With new leadership at Disney, I believe that we will see many changes. Time will tell if they are good changes or not. I think the Hawaiian venture sounds like a good change.

Donna

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I think that is it exactly. Eventually when they sell the non-themepark linked units, the more people competeing for the themepark rooms and the less overall satisfaction of the owners when they realize how hard it will be to get the themepark resorts.

not sure how this can happen really, after AKV is complete there will be more on property dvc units than ever before, add in the fact GC will be on site at DL and constantly full itself.

Plus the fact that there more than likely be another dvc resort coming to wdw.

plus add in the fact you are probably going to get a lot of add ons, which means those people are probably in all likelihood looking for somehting outside of WDW.

unless you think HI will be completely new buys from people looking ot stay at WDW and always mostly empty, I myself cant see that happening

 

[Granny]

Am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with DVC moving into non-themepark destinations? The idea that DVC is going in the direction of being a more of a timeshare chain to compete in the hotel market instead of being tied to the themeparks really feels like a bad move. I like the special niche that DVC had, and I feel a loss of cache that will end up lessening the value of our memberships.

If anything, the expansions are probably increasing the value of our memberships as we have more and more options to reserve without trading out or incurring the $95 fees.

Maybe DVC is just beginning to feel too big to me. It used to have the feel of a private club, now it feels more like Sam's Club.

I'd say that the original owners at OKW and even BWV have a right to feel this way as they had no way of knowing how big DVC would become. As a first time buyer when they built their 5th resort at VWL, it would be hard for me to complain about expansion of the Club.

And when I'm staying at VWL (or BWV or any other DVC resort), DVC doesn't seem any bigger to me. The expansion into new resorts has just given my family more vacation options.

Of course the 7 month competition is going to get ridiculous. We have already lost most of the flexibility of being to take advantage of airfare sales to book a last minute trip.

We bought where we wanted to stay the most, so I can't speak to this. Since we have the home resort advantage the new resorts can't cut into that. I agree that last minute trips are becoming increasingly challenging for a number of reasons.


I don't disagree with your comments or feelings. I just wanted to provide a different perspective.

 

[CarolAnnC]

I have no problems with the expansion and growth announced thus far by DVC. I enjoy having more opportunitites for places to vacation using my points.

We all have choices. If someone truly is distressed over the direction DVC is taking, then by all means sell your interest in DVC and consider other timeshares. Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side...

 

[dianeschlicht]

I can see both sides of this one, but in general, I think there is more up side to it than down.

I do agree that many of the people who specifically buy in the non-theme park locations may be trying to get into WDW more often at the 7 month mark, but by the same token, quite a few "theme park" home resorters will want to get into the others also. I think that is especailly true of Hawaii, and will be if they build Carribean too. All it really means is that "buy where you want to stay most" is going to become more and more important, just as booking before the 7 month window is also. Giving us more options without going "out of system" is not all bad in my book.

 

[mikesmom]

I'm feeling good about this move and we've been members for 7 years. I think the "failure" of VB and HHI was just a timing issue. I see a lot of conversation on the Boards lately from people who want to trade out and have challenges doing so. I think we are finally at a critical mass of folks that have been members long enough that they want to vacation off-park from time to time - or currently vacation with DVC and never go into the parks. With a good enough destination (and Hawaii certainly is) members will be attracted there. We're looking forward to being able to travel elsewhere and yet have the security of knowing pretty much what to expect in the accomodations.

I agree that 7 months is going to become more and more of a problem. That will be the big deal for folks who bought at a resort COUNTING on being able to stay elsewhere.

 

[Deb & Bill]

If DVC had built on the Gulf Coast of FL instead of the Atlantic Coast, would it have been more successful? I say yes. Could there have been a better choice for HHI than that location or even a totally different locale? What is the occupancy of HHI during most of the year? I know summer is basically full, but what about Jan or Feb? Where do those members use their points most?

Is the choice they made for DVC HI the best one or is it one they settled for?

I know GCV will be successful because of the desire for lots of members to visit DL. And the small size of the resort will cause it to sell out quickly. I can see lots of West Coast people buying into GCV. But a week there is really too long, four nights is probably enough - unless they expand the park somehow.

There are a lot of cheaper timeshares out there that will be competition for non-theme park DVC resorts.

While the Adventures by Disney appear to be a plus on the surface, there are a lot less expensive ways to do these exact same trips. We'll never do any of those trips. And we've done several to Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, Southern CA, etc.

 

[tjkraz]

Am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with DVC moving into non-themepark destinations? The idea that DVC is going in the direction of being a more of a timeshare chain to compete in the hotel market instead of being tied to the themeparks really feels like a bad move. I like the special niche that DVC had, and I feel a loss of cache that will end up lessening the value of our memberships.

The appeal to DVC has always been the ability to stay on Disney theme park property. That aspect hasn't changed. All things being equal, I don't see how these new destinations could do anything but enhance the program. Trading out is an incomprehensibly-difficult process for many. And one of the common complaints against DVC even now is that there aren't enough different destinations available.

Maybe I am feeling that DVC expansion is just becoming more of a priority than it should be. I would rather have the option of trading out than of having resorts in competitive markets.

I would question how many echo that sentiment. I suspect booking the Ko Olina resort at 7 months will be far easier than trading into Hawaii via II today. Some variety may be lost, but what good is offering a handful of different options if many of them are never available to DVC owners.

The boards are full of complaints about maintenance and service.

More members = more complaints. In other words, if you have 100 DVC units and 10 complaints per year, you have the same raw numbers as 1000 DVC units and 100 complaints per year.

The higher complaint volume doesn't mean Disney is performing any worse than they did in the past.

Many of the problems at WDW can be traced back to the Orlando labor market. It isn't easy to hire and train a workforce of 60,000. Anaheim and Oahu are in much different markets.

If you're really worried about quality of service, the greater concern should actually be AKV Kidani and the DVC CR. Those developments will place an even greater strain on the Florida resources.

Of course the 7 month competition is going to get ridiculous.

That's pretty wild speculation. Based upon an approximate size of 400 units, Ko Olina will represent about 12-15% of the DVC units by the time it's open. DVC will have no problem filling those rooms with both owners and non-owners looking to visit.

We have already lost most of the flexibility of being to take advantage of airfare sales to book a last minute trip.

Who are you faulting for this? It's not as if DVC oversold the program.

What HAS changed is people's booking patterns. There has been a noticable move toward booking right at 7 and 11 months, often times with people booking day-by-day as soon as they are able. We have nobody to blame but ourselves for that. There's nothing DVC could do to change the situation, and I don't see how it's any sort of justification for limiting future expansion.

 

[Lenc324]

I am very excited about the another off sight resort. I think it's a great idea and will definatley be part of it.

 

[ADP]

I wonder how getting Disney World resorts at the 7 month window will be affected with all these new destinations. I think it may get much tougher in the future. Thoughts?

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I wonder how getting Disney World resorts at the 7 month window will be affected with all these new destinations. I think it may get much tougher in the future. Thoughts?

i may be in the minority, but I actually think it will be the same if not easier. I think GC will be full basically all the time and I think HI will be basically about full all the time, so I think the WDW DVC members booking into those will free up some space. I actuallly see WDW DVC'ers going that way more than the GC and HI owners coming this way.