DSLR recommendations?

DebºoºS;17965310 said:
I've been a Nikoner almost exclusively over the years. For a DSLR I wanted one I could use my Nikon glass on. After much research of all the Nikon models I chose the Nikon D200:) I'm very happy with my choice.
It's a personal decision similar to your purchasing a new car. Go to the store and give them a test drive. Handle them, shoot in the store with them. I did and found some models too light or uncomfortable in my hand. Check out all the bells and whistles and do your research on owner opinions. Nikonians for Nikon. I'm sure Canon and Pentax have one too. Whatever your decision best of luck :thumbsup2


Woohoo!! Don't you just LOVE that camera!! I do.....:thumbsup2 That's what I did. You have to heft it and feel it in your hands before you can make a thorough decision.
 
Woohoo!! Don't you just LOVE that camera!! I do.....:thumbsup2 That's what I did. You have to heft it and feel it in your hands before you can make a thorough decision.

And, just to show how we all have different needs, preferences, etc, Mrs. YEKCIM drives a D200, and likes the "heft" of it, while I find the D50 to be just right for me, and the D200 just a little bulky and heavy to suit me.

~YEKCIM
 
The IS in the body vs IS in the lens debate is silly and nonproductive. Anecdotal evidence, both for and against IS, is by and large, worthless. (Just like virtually all anecdotal evidence.) If you're expecting to be disappointed, you will be.

Unfortunately, it would be difficult or impossible to do double-blind tests on IS in the body vs IS in the lens. Naturally, C/N claim that IS in the lens is the only worthwhile place for it, because that's how they do it. That needs to be taken with a big grain of salt.

It's also interesting that some long-zoom PnS cameras (like my old Minolta Z5 and the new Olympus with the 18x zoom) do IS in the sensor rather than in the lens, and the claim is that it works better for them. Well, naturally - like like C/N, they're going to claim that their way is the best.

To sum up: both are effective, neither will completely reduce blur, and chances are that none will offer quite the level of stops that they claim. (Otherwise they'd claim even more!) IMHO, it all boils down to: IS with every lens.

Mark, I just have one comment on your long message, regarding the USM focusing. Hasn't Nikon had in-lens motor focusing for about as long as Canon? Heck, it's even appearing on some of the new Pentax lenses. ;) Is the claim that Canon's in-lens focus motors are better than Nikon's? That seems to be the way it reads. My understanding was that the were pretty much equally effective.
 

What do y'all use and why?

I never did answer this question.

I am currently using a Nikon D50. I've shooting Nikon slr's since around 1990 which I got the N6006, then moved to the N70 and now the D50.

For me it was a matter which Nikon dSLR I was going to get. Came down to the D70s and the D50. At the time there was about a $300 difference between the 2 and in the end I didn't think that the extra bells and whistles the D70s have were worth $300. I briefly looked at the digital Rebel and I don't recall seeing the Pentax *ist at the time.

I have been more than happy with the results I get with the D50. 6.1MP can be deceiving in a dSLR, but it is more than enough. I get great enlargements that are very clear, even when the picture is cropped to about 75% of the original and enlarged to 11x14.

I thought that I would use my old lenses with the new dSLR, however, I ended up using only 1 of my 2 lenses. I ended up buying a wider zoom for a "walk-around" lens, which I have since bought another lens to replace that one. Also the 1 lens I did use was a 70-300mm zoom. After 1 year I have also replaced that with a new Nikkor 70-300mm VR lens. In addition I've purchased 2 other lenses so my lens lineup is completely different than I used with my film SLR. Though 3 of those 4 new lenses I still can use with my film SLR. I don't use it often, but do use it with B&W film.

I love the fact that the D50 is one of the highest rated dSLR's for high ISO rating. Comes in very handy when light is low and you need to bump up the ISO to help compensate.

I would prefer a bigger view finder that is now available on the D80. The 2" screen is very big, though a 2 1/2" screen might help add some assistance in the field. I don't recall wishing I had a backlight for the top LCD screen. Depth of Field preview button isn't missed as you can take the picture then view it in the rear LCD. In body IS would be nice, but Nikon makes VR for lenses so I'll go with those. Never had it in the past 20 or so years so I guess you can't miss something you never had.

I don't see myself upgrading my camera anytime soon. Maybe in 5 or 6 years, but till then I'll continue to look at new lenses. In the end that makes the most difference and Nikon certainly has a great line-up of lenses (not that Canon and Pentax don't).
 
Hey, I'll give some credit to Pentax. The IS in the body thing is cool. I really do hope that Canon nicks the idea. It obviuosly isn't covered to tightly by patents or Pentax couldn't have nicked it from Minolta. ;)

Is it as good as Canon's? I'd be surprised if it isn't at least as good as Canon's first generation IS. After all, they had 12 more years to work on it. ;) Seriously, Canon has several versions of their IS system. The latest, on the 70-200 f/4 IS is claimed to be good for 4 full stops.

Just out of curiousity, does the Pentax IS system do tripod detection? Does it have a panning mode? Can it auto-detect the direction of panning motion?

As for whether lens-based or body based IS is better, I think it depends on your definition of better. For lower system cost, in-body is definitely better. It's also great to have it regardless of the lens used. For image stabilization capability, I'd have to guess that the lens based systems would have the edge for two reasons. First, you can customize the system based on the optics in use. Second, you can move the stabilizer closer to the nodal point of the lens, where perturbations would be most easily corrected.

Of course, even better than image stabilization is greater ISO sensitivity. Given the two stop advantage that the new 1D Mark III has over the Pentax 10D in sensitivity, I think I'd rather have the sensor with better IQ than IS. ;)

Mark, I just have one comment on your long message, regarding the USM focusing. Hasn't Nikon had in-lens motor focusing for about as long as Canon? Heck, it's even appearing on some of the new Pentax lenses.
Canon introduced their lens based motor system in 1987. Nikon was 13 years later. They are now stuck with having body motors and lens motors or, like they are doing with the D40, dropping AF support for all their older AF lenses.

Now that Nikon and Pentax have lens motors, do they support full time manual focus with those lenses? That's another must-have for sports (and wild kid) photographers.

Looking at the history of SLRs, the13 years it took to copy the idea of putting motors in lenses is a long time. When Minolta introduced the first successful AF system, the other three major players had AF systems out within a couple of years. When Canon introduced the first IS system, Nikon was able to offer a version only 5 years later (with Minolta and Pentax following 5 years after that). I wonder how long it will take for Nikon, Pentax, Sony, or Olympus to finally introduce a full frame sensor. Hopefully not too long; after all, they were only about five years behind on moving to the DSLR world. ;)
 
Nikon certainly has a great line-up of lense

I have to admit that I lust after Nikon's 200-400 VR F/4 lens. Canon needs to replace their 100-400 badly. Is OK optically, but it's got an old IS system, I hate push/pull zooms, and it's not constant aperture. I just hope that when Canon does replace it, it isn't quite so pricey as Nikon's.
 
Just out of curiousity, does the Pentax IS system do tripod detection? Does it have a panning mode? Can it auto-detect the direction of panning motion?

I do not think the system has a tripod detction, but the on off switch is right on the back, so it is not tough to do. The K100D does not have panning. As far as I know, the K10D does not either. I believe that it is supposed to be added on the next generation. It was not important to me b/c I hardly ever do action shots. I also must say that all along I have said that Pentax is not the best for action shots. They improved the buffer on the K10D, so it might be better, but my buffer is only three RAW or five JPG.

Kevin
 
Hey, I'll give some credit to Pentax. The IS in the body thing is cool. I really do hope that Canon nicks the idea. It obviuosly isn't covered to tightly by patents or Pentax couldn't have nicked it from Minolta. ;)
Well, yeah, you'll never hear me claiming that Pentax invented in-body IS on DSLRs. However, I think they've probably had more success - despite the Sony being featured prominently in nearly every Best Buy and CC Sunday ad for the past year or so, it seems relatively rare to actually find an owner of one, as compared to the Pentaxes.

Is it as good as Canon's? I'd be surprised if it isn't at least as good as Canon's first generation IS. After all, they had 12 more years to work on it. ;) Seriously, Canon has several versions of their IS system. The latest, on the 70-200 f/4 IS is claimed to be good for 4 full stops.
Well, that have to claim something, otherwise the Marketing Monster will not be pleased. :)

Just out of curiousity, does the Pentax IS system do tripod detection? Does it have a panning mode? Can it auto-detect the direction of panning motion?
Now Mark, honestly. You know the answers to these questions already, don't you? Of course you do.

I don't think that the in-body IS needs some of those as the correction is done at the actual sensor, not a couple inches away. The K10D system does do rotation as well as X and Y damping, which should theoretically help with panning, etc. Somehow, I don't really buy that these things, especially the direction of panning, will have any kind of noticeable impact on the effectiveness of the system. These are pretty slight tweaks.

First, you can customize the system based on the optics in use. Second, you can move the stabilizer closer to the nodal point of the lens, where perturbations would be most easily corrected.
On the first one, I'm not sure that I see such an advantage. The basic concept is pretty simple. It looks to me like the main difference in the in-lens systems is how big they are to fit inside the lens body? As for the second one, again, this is possibly a point on paper but I'm not sure that it makes such a difference in the real world.

Of course, even better than image stabilization is greater ISO sensitivity. Given the two stop advantage that the new 1D Mark III has over the Pentax 10D in sensitivity, I think I'd rather have the sensor with better IQ than IS. ;)
My $367 DSLR goes to 3200, but I don't think that it makes it any more effective than the 6mp Nikons that use the same sensor but only go to 1600. You can always push the image further. Anyway, the advantage of the 1D is that it's full frame.

Mark, I don't mean this is a negative way, but obviously money is not as much of a concern for you (this can also apply in the HD camcorder thread). If money is no object (or at least, not much of an object), then naturally we'd all be using top-spec hardware. However, let's remember than the 1D is 4x more expensive than a K10D. I would hope that you get something for that money! The problem is that you get into severely diminishing returns. You certainly won't be taking 4x better photos than any $1k mid-tier DSLR.

Similarly, even if IS in a lens is somewhat better, you're still talking about a big premium, and one that will be added every time you want a new lens.

Obviously, one shooting with a $4k camera using $1k+ lenses is going to have a different impression than someone shooting with a $700 camera and $200 lenses. This is, IMHO, where the Canon line really suffers, in entry-level cameras and lenses that often just don't measure up.

Now that Nikon and Pentax have lens motors, do they support full time manual focus with those lenses? That's another must-have for sports (and wild kid) photographers.
I don't know about Nikon (I would assume that the answer is yes), but I am almost positive that all mentions of the Pentax lenses with in-lens motor focusing do support "quick shift", which is their name for the ability to manually adjust focus after the camera has focused itself.

When Minolta introduced the first successful AF system, the other three major players had AF systems out within a couple of years.
Actually, I was just reading the other day, the Time-Life "Year in Photography" book from the early 1970s where they describe the first AF system.

When Canon introduced the first IS system, Nikon was able to offer a version only 5 years later (with Minolta and Pentax following 5 years after that). I wonder how long it will take for Nikon, Pentax, Sony, or Olympus to finally introduce a full frame sensor. Hopefully not too long; after all, they were only about five years behind on moving to the DSLR world. ;)
Oh man, and some people claim that I beat the company drum too hard. ;) You'd think that Canon was the only company to ever come up with anything new...
 
I also must say that all along I have said that Pentax is not the best for action shots. They improved the buffer on the K10D, so it might be better, but my buffer is only three RAW or five JPG.
Hopefully this is something they'll correct with the K100D replacement that'll be coming later this year. I don't know why they went with the smaller buffer - the old *ist DS has a larger buffer (at least 2x the size) and I believe the started putting a smaller buffer in the DL to save money, and somehow it got carried over to the K1x0 models.
 
Just out of curiousity, does the Pentax IS system do tripod detection? Does it have a panning mode? Can it auto-detect the direction of panning motion?
Now Mark, honestly. You know the answers to these questions already, don't you? Of course you do.

Actually, I didn't know the answers. I suspected, but the answer wasn't in the review I checked.

I don't think that the in-body IS needs some of those as the correction is done at the actual sensor, not a couple inches away. The K10D system does do rotation as well as X and Y damping, which should theoretically help with panning, etc. Somehow, I don't really buy that these things, especially the direction of panning, will have any kind of noticeable impact on the effectiveness of the system. These are pretty slight tweaks.

I think you are mistaken. Canon IS systems (and I assume everyone elses) should be turned off when you intend to shoot while moving the camera (either panning shots or high speed shots while moving) because they cannot distinguish between intentional motion and unintentional motion. They'll attempt to correct the intetional motion and your picture will be worse rather than better.

With the Canon Panning mode, the camera knows to watch for motion in either the vertical or horizontal axis. When it detects that, it shuts the IS down. In fact, if it detects too much motion along both axis, it shuts off IS entirely. Contrary to some Canon user's beliefs, it does not correct for motion while panning diagonally.

For panning shots, it's not what I'd call a "slight tweak." It's the difference between having IS (along one axis) and not having IS at all. Given that panning shots are inherently long exposures, having some IS in those situations if very useful. As to its importance, that depends on how often you take panning shots. For me, that's not very often at all.

Mark, I don't mean this is a negative way, but obviously money is not as much of a concern for you (this can also apply in the HD camcorder thread). If money is no object (or at least, not much of an object), then naturally we'd all be using top-spec hardware. However, let's remember than the 1D is 4x more expensive than a K10D. I would hope that you get something for that money! The problem is that you get into severely diminishing returns. You certainly won't be taking 4x better photos than any $1k mid-tier DSLR.

Money is very much a concern for me. It's a question of priorities as much as it is an absolute budget. As I have said before, I'm not rich, I just have different priorities. Our family drives cheap cars for at least 10 year (I've never had a car with power windows); we camp during most of our travels; we own < $200 in jewelry, and we rarely eat out (and then usually at places with play areas ;) ). It's all a question of priorities.

As for the 4x better photo argument, you don't seem to understand how to properly evaluate your purchase options. When comparing a $1K camera to a $4K camera, you don't check to see if the latter will produce 4x better photos. Instead, you look at the improvement in photo quality and number of "keeper" photos you get with the $4K camera and determine whether those improvments are worth the extra $3K. It's the marginal improvements compared to the marginal price increase that matter, not a comparison between the total numbers.

Let's uses lenses as an example. Canon makes two lines of high quality 70-200 lenses - one with an f/4 maximum aperture and one with an f/2.8 maximum aperture. The picture quality and just about any aperture other than f/4 and below is almost identical between the two. The f/2.8 costs twice as much. I bought the f/2.8 despite the fact that I expected to shoot only 20% of my shots at f/4 or below. My logic was that over the life of the lens, I would probably get an several hundred extra shots that I liked better with the f/2.8 lens compared to what I could get with the f/4.0 lens. Those several hundred shots were worth the additional $500 for the lens to me. That might be several hundred out of several thousands (and certainly not twice as many), but the marginal increase in desirable shots was worth the marginal increase in the cost of the lens.

The same logic applied when I purchased a 1Dm2 ($3,500) instead of a 20D ($1,300). I expected that I would increase me yield of "keeper" shots from about 2,000/year to 2,5000/year. In addition, about 20% of the other shots would be better shots with the better equipment. Not three times as good, but better nonetheless. I decided that the extra 500 shots per year plus the improvements to the other shots were worth the extra $2,200. There were, of course, other considerations (avoiding the frustration of knowing that I missed a shot because I bought the cheaper camera, getting more enjoyment from working with a better tool, increased exercise from toting heavier gear, etc.).

My main point is that the difference between spending X or 4X for gear doesn't result in 4 times more or better pictures. It should, if the purchase is made rationally, result in an increase in the quantity and quality of pictures that is worth the 3X price differential. For pros, the decisions are easier because they can more easily quantify their income difference attributable to different gear. For us amateurs, we just have to decide what the extra photos are worth to us. Deciding on the higher gear doesn't necessarily mean that we're cost insensitive, it just means that we put a higher value on photos compared with other spending (or saving) choices.

When Minolta introduced the first successful AF system, the other three major players had AF systems out within a couple of years.
Actually, I was just reading the other day, the Time-Life "Year in Photography" book from the early 1970s where they describe the first AF system.
I was careful to use the modifier "successful". Pentax and then Canon both came out with autofocus systems before Minolta, but they were market disasters. When Minolta came out with their system (and Nikon quickly followed), Pentax and Canon went back to the drawing board and came out with the systems that they essentially still use today.

When Canon introduced the first IS system, Nikon was able to offer a version only 5 years later (with Minolta and Pentax following 5 years after that). I wonder how long it will take for Nikon, Pentax, Sony, or Olympus to finally introduce a full frame sensor. Hopefully not too long; after all, they were only about five years behind on moving to the DSLR world.
Oh man, and some people claim that I beat the company drum too hard. You'd think that Canon was the only company to ever come up with anything new...

No, no no...you missed the proper flow of the religious debate. I sited Minolta's introduction of AF in the paragraph before for the very reason that it would show me giving credit to someone other than Canon for inventing something useful (it does happen on some rare occassions;) ) I was expecting you to counter with some of Pentax's many inventions, like TTL metering. Of course, Pentax's notable inventions were back in the 50's and 60's, so I would then dismiss them as ancient history.

I know that you keep flogging Pentax in a desperate bid to get their market share to sustainable levels. I, on the other hand, have real skin in the game. I'm looking out for my investment in Canon stock and it's down on the year. Incidentally, this discussion is best read after printing it on a Canon printer (using Canon inks), copying it on a Canon copier, and faxing over a Canon fax machine. Oh, and view it using Canon's image stabilized binoculars. Try stabilizing the sensor in that market, buddy. ;) ;) ;)
 
Actually, I didn't know the answers. I suspected, but the answer wasn't in the review I checked.
I could swear that you'd asked those same questions last time this came up, and were merely attempting to lead us down a particular path. If not, then I apologize.

The same logic applied when I purchased a 1Dm2 ($3,500) instead of a 20D ($1,300). I expected that I would increase me yield of "keeper" shots from about 2,000/year to 2,5000/year. In addition, about 20% of the other shots would be better shots with the better equipment. Not three times as good, but better nonetheless. I decided that the extra 500 shots per year plus the improvements to the other shots were worth the extra $2,200. There were, of course, other considerations (avoiding the frustration of knowing that I missed a shot because I bought the cheaper camera, getting more enjoyment from working with a better tool, increased exercise from toting heavier gear, etc.).
I still think that you're not quite "getting it" - for most people, it's not a matter of priorities or what the extra photos are worth.

It's a matter of "get it for cheap, or don't get it at all" - buying a $4k camera is simply not an option, no matter if it's desirable or not. In my case, had I not gotten my DSLR for such an incredibly good deal - I would not have gotten one, at least not for a while longer. Furthermore, I was able to build a fairly solid line-up of lenses for cheap, spending under $1k total - which is still more than I might have expected to spend.

Now, let's turn your analogy around. What's worth more - $1k in the bank saved up towards a $4k camera, or having a perfectly competent DSLR in hand along with enough lenses to cover most situations?

Again, we're back to diminishing returns. Given that most pictures are viewed at 1.5-2mp or smaller sizes (not that many people have display devices that go above 1600x1200, and I think relatively few digital pictures are actually printed), realistically, most photos will look nearly identical when shot by almost any DSLR. The first $500-600 that is spent on nearly any DSLR is what really gets you the quality. The rest, to mid-level all the way up to top-tier photos, are much smaller, incremental gains - most of which are really just tweaks to assist the photographer, not improve the picture quality.

I know that you keep flogging Pentax in a desperate bid to get their market share to sustainable levels. I, on the other hand, have real skin in the game. I'm looking out for my investment in Canon stock and it's down on the year. Incidentally, this discussion is best read after printing it on a Canon printer (using Canon inks), copying it on a Canon copier, and faxing over a Canon fax machine. Oh, and view it using Canon's image stabilized binoculars. Try stabilizing the sensor in that market, buddy. ;) ;) ;)
I know, Canon makes inferior products in all sorts of markets. ;) I will say that they had good cookies at the last big Canon demo I attended. :woohoo: I even had them print a big poster of my wife and son on Main St USA on one of their $100k printers...
 
I still think that you're not quite "getting it" - for most people, it's not a matter of priorities or what the extra photos are worth.

It's a matter of "get it for cheap, or don't get it at all" - buying a $4k camera is simply not an option, no matter if it's desirable or not. In my case, had I not gotten my DSLR for such an incredibly good deal - I would not have gotten one, at least not for a while longer. Furthermore, I was able to build a fairly solid line-up of lenses for cheap, spending under $1k total - which is still more than I might have expected to spend.

I disagree, at least with regards to most of the people on this board. I think it would be a mistake for most of them to get a $4K camera, but I think they could afford if their priorities were different.

Most of the people I know getting married today spend about that much on an engagement ring. They could have bought a 1DM3 instead. All of the ones I know put a higher priority on the engagement ring, but it's not mandatory, they just made a choice.

I drive a perfectly serviceable 7 year old car that cost $15K new. You can still get a decent car (Honda Accord DX) for $15K . The average new car buyer in this country spends more than $25K. They could have bought an entire high end Canon system and the cheap car but instead they typically buy nicer cars. I presume that they know what they are doing and that they are making the right choice for themselves. Most would quickly say that they cannot afford a $4K camera. What they really mean is that a $4K camera is not worth $4K to them; they'd rather spend the money on other things or save it.

This is a forum of people that generally consume a relatively costly luxury good - trips to Disney theme parks. For the cost of one or two Disney trips, most people could have a 1D instead of a Rebel. Obviously, most here choose the Disney trips.

My original trip plan for last year included a Disney Cruise and a stay at the Beach Club. When we added the total trip cost for an 8 day trip, it came out to around $10,000. Instead, we dropped to cruise part, added two days, shared an offsite house, and took care of our own meals. That dropped the trip cost down to about $3,500. Many people here take the curise, stay on property, and use the Disney meal plan. It's probably the right decision for them, but they could have stayed home and bought the camera.

I agree that some people do not have the means to afford a $4K camera, regardless of what else they sacrifice. For most people on this board, I suspect that the could buy it but just don't see it as a worthwhile expenditure of their funds.
 
l

I don't think that the in-body IS needs some of those as the correction is done at the actual sensor, not a couple inches away. The K10D system does do rotation as well as X and Y damping, which should theoretically help with panning, etc. Somehow, I don't really buy that these things, especially the direction of panning, will have any kind of noticeable impact on the effectiveness of the system. These are pretty slight tweaks.

.
erased the rest cause i want to comment on this...
Canon tells you to turn off the is for tripod not for image quality but to protect the IS...other wise it will keep trying to stabilize and can eventually affect the motor...at least that is what the canon tech told me when i asked him why my is on tripod photos were about the same as those with the is off( i thought maybe the is was not working) do not know if that is true for pentax system as well but if so it doesn't seem it would matter where the is is.
 
Canon tells you to turn off the is for tripod not for image quality but to protect the IS...other wise it will keep trying to stabilize and can eventually affect the motor...at least that is what the canon tech told me when i asked him why my is on tripod photos were about the same as those with the is off( i thought maybe the is was not working) do not know if that is true for pentax system as well but if so it doesn't seem it would matter where the is is.

That tech didn't know what he is talking about.

Here is a quote from Chuck Westfall. Chuck is Canon's Director of Media & Customer Relationship.

The EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS lens shuts off its stabilizer automatically when the degree of motion falls below a certain threshold, as would be the case under most circumstances when using a tripod. This is a better arrangement than the early IS lenses like the EF75-300mm f/4-5.6 of 1995 or the EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS, where the IS system would actually increase blur when using a tripod. But it is not as sophisticated as the IS system in our super-telephoto lenses like the EF300mm f/2.8L IS USM, which can detect and compensate for mirror slap at slow shutter speeds even when the lens is mounted on a tripod.


You can get a sharp image on a tripod at slow shutter speeds with the EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS without turning off the IS system, but in order to do so, you would need to observe the following precautions:


1. Use the self-timer, or keep the shutter button depressed half way for at least a couple of seconds to allow the IS system to stabilize prior to exposure.

2. Use mirror lock to eliminate mirror slap.


In the situation you are describing (tripod use, but no self-timer and no mirror lock), you cannot expect the IS system of this particular lens to help you.
 
I dunno. I think there are plenty of people out there who cannot afford a high-end DSLR no matter how they slice up the pie - different people have different-sized pies. :)

I also don't think it's fair to assume that, if you value photography, you'd prioritize your money differently in order to buy a high-end camera. I think many people don't see the value in spending the extra money over a mid-tier DSLR, much less an entry-level one. The extra money could go towards improving one's photography in other way, like taking some classes... or towards other things... like a trip to WDW. :thumbsup2

And I sure didn't spend $4k on my wife's engagement ring, fortunately she didn't want anything like that... a nice sapphire one with a few small diamonds on the side was more her speed and was a good bit cheaper. :love: The whole diamond thing is a total racket anyway, but most of us know that... the scumbag who came up with "two months salary" ought to be taken out and shot. Die, DeBeers, die!!! But that's a whole different conversation. :)
 
OK, as a financial planner, I'm going to chime in here. We all have different priorities in regards to how we choose to spend our money. Every financial decision involves a trade-off at some level. As long as the what goes in balances with the what goes out, what does it matter how much or how little someone paid for their camera gear?
 
It doesn't matter at all. That's kind of my point, we can't judge one's interest or skills by the amount of hardware (or "kit" for our non-US readers ;) ) they're purchased, and to bring us back to IS, I think that many people feel that whatever gains can be had by putting IS in the lens do not justify the significant jump in cost you'll spend in purchasing a battery of IS lenses, plus with the C/N route, you do not have the option of having IS in every lens.
 
I don't have any IS in any lens... even my 70-200 f/2.8L and I am fine with that.

I understand what your saying Groucho, but IS is not the be all end all of photography.

I like what pentax is doing, if they had been where they are now when I purchased my first dSLR 16 months ago, I might have made a different choice. But at this time I have bought into the system and will be staying with Canon. At some time I will be upgrading I am sure... I drool everytime I look at a 5d. The full frame is just really apealing to me, which is something I wouldn't have the opportunity for in any other brand, currently.

The bottom line again is get the one you like and are comfortable with, both in cost and function.... then use it.
 
I understand what your saying Groucho, but IS is not the be all end all of photography.
I agree 100%. I don't have it and while I'd like it, I am doing pretty well without out. Actually, I could have upgraded to a K100D last year for probably around $100 by selling my DL on eBay, but decided that if I did that, it'd be really hard to convince the wife that buying the K10D was a worthwhile upgrade. ;) There's enough extra features on the higher model to make me rather wait without IS than have it now.

However, this thread quickly became focused on IS, so that's what I've been focusing on.

I also agree with nearly everything else you wrote, although I'm not so lustful about full frame, probably because I very rarely ever print photos. I think the results of the APS sensors are more than sharp enough for when you're mainly storing photos digitally, and still more than sharp enough for 8x10 prints or even quite a bit larger. And it's not just because it's only Canon with such a thing, I am not lusting after the Pentax medium-format DSLR for the same reason, although I think it is pretty cool... but the extra cost, weight, and bulk just aren't worth it to me.
 





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