Don't do me any favors!

[Rutt and Tuke]

Originally posted by JerseyJanice
I've been watching this thread all day and not wanting to comment because I do feel for you and your daughter, DW. I'm sorry that Nikki caught mono. It's not a nice illness to have, and I hope and pray she makes a full recovery.

BUT speaking on behalf of hospital administrators everywhere (and that is my job), you are way off-base to be very angry with the ER at Southern Maine.

First of all, they DID TREAT her. They did not run a throat culture--something you and I agree ought to have been done--but they ABSOLUTELY TREATED her.

They gave her a script for amoxicillin and advised her to take Tylenol. That is treating her.

Next, I'm tending to think that no one with a sore throat belongs in an ER (since throat infections are rarely life-threatening).

Was there no pediatrician or general practioner within a 30-minute driving radius to treat her? No Urgent Care facilities?

Nikki was admitted as a self-paying patient into the ER. The physician on staff probably had no way of knowing that she had multiple credit cards with no limits on them to pay for the services rendered.

I'm sure he thought he was helping you out in not running up your bill by ordering a bunch of tests.

Frankly, (and I'm not saying you would do this), you could dispute a CC charge by saying that the tests ordered were not necessary. And then the bill would go into collection, and the hospital would have to settle for pennies on the dollar of what it cost to treat your daughter.

Many people seem to have a hard time comprehending that hospitals are a business. They can't legally turn you away if you're in labor or gushing blood, but the fact of the matter is that physicians and nurses need to get paid. They have to eat too!

If a hospital racks up a ton of bad debts from self-pay patients, how can it keep up with its obligations? Like its payroll, supplies, pharmaceuticals, utility costs, etc.

Glad to hear she's on the mend, but I hope you can try to see the hospital's POV. I think they had everyone's best interests in mind by not "over" treating your DD.

 

[preshi]

The treatment they gave her could have harmed her more because of the condition of her liver. I think DW has every right to be mad at them, if Nikki had kept on with the original "treatment" who knows what could have happened to her. It's a bunch of BS as far as I'm concerned.

again DW and Nikki.

Originally posted by JerseyJanice
I've been watching this thread all day and not wanting to comment because I do feel for you and your daughter, DW. I'm sorry that Nikki caught mono. It's not a nice illness to have, and I hope and pray she makes a full recovery.

BUT speaking on behalf of hospital administrators everywhere (and that is my job), you are way off-base to be very angry with the ER at Southern Maine.

First of all, they DID TREAT her. They did not run a throat culture--something you and I agree ought to have been done--but they ABSOLUTELY TREATED her.

They gave her a script for amoxicillin and advised her to take Tylenol. That is treating her.

Next, I'm tending to think that no one with a sore throat belongs in an ER (since throat infections are rarely life-threatening).

Was there no pediatrician or general practioner within a 30-minute driving radius to treat her? No Urgent Care facilities?

Nikki was admitted as a self-paying patient into the ER. The physician on staff probably had no way of knowing that she had multiple credit cards with no limits on them to pay for the services rendered.

I'm sure he thought he was helping you out in not running up your bill by ordering a bunch of tests.

Frankly, (and I'm not saying you would do this), you could dispute a CC charge by saying that the tests ordered were not necessary. And then the bill would go into collection, and the hospital would have to settle for pennies on the dollar of what it cost to treat your daughter.

Many people seem to have a hard time comprehending that hospitals are a business. They can't legally turn you away if you're in labor or gushing blood, but the fact of the matter is that physicians and nurses need to get paid. They have to eat too!

If a hospital racks up a ton of bad debts from self-pay patients, how can it keep up with its obligations? Like its payroll, supplies, pharmaceuticals, utility costs, etc.

Glad to hear she's on the mend, but I hope you can try to see the hospital's POV. I think they had everyone's best interests in mind by not "over" treating your DD.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by preshi
The treatment they gave her could have harmed her more because of the condition of her liver. I think DW has every right to be mad at them, if Nikki had kept on with the original "treatment" who knows what could have happened to her. It's a bunch of BS as far as I'm concerned.

again DW and Nikki.

--------------------------------

This is the point that the nay sayers keep missing.. I don't care if she had no insurance, 20 insurance plans, or two million dollars in her pocket - the "treatment" she received was inadequate (for WHATEVER reason), diagnostic tests that could have pinpointed the problem were NOT done (for WHATEVER reason) and the end result could have been very, very serious - if not fatal - for this young woman..

For all of you doctors, healthcare professionals, and office workers, have you never heard of a mono spot? A throat culture? A blood test? A complete examination - including her abdominal area - that would have taken all of what - 10 minutes maybe?

Sorry - but the care she received was negligent and no amount of rationalizing can change those facts..

 

[Rutt and Tuke]

Originally posted by C.Ann
--------------------------------

This is the point that the nay sayers keep missing.. I don't care if she had no insurance, 20 insurance plans, or two million dollars in her pocket - the "treatment" she received was inadequate (for WHATEVER reason), diagnostic tests that could have pinpointed the problem were NOT done (for WHATEVER reason) and the end result could have been very, very serious - if not fatal - for this young woman..

For all of you doctors, healthcare professionals, and office workers, have you never heard of a mono spot? A throat culture? A blood test? A complete examination - including her abdominal area - that would have taken all of what - 10 minutes maybe?

Sorry - but the care she received was negligent and no amount of rationalizing can change those facts..

I agree with what you are saying, but one of the focuses of the OP was that it was all due to her not having insurance (the refrain of "but we won't have high bills" ). I don't believe that was the case, but it all is speculation at this point.

 

[poohandwendy]

The treatment they gave her could have harmed her more because of the condition of her liver. I think DW has every right to be mad at them, if Nikki had kept on with the original "treatment" who knows what could have happened to her. It's a bunch of BS as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, when you leave any ER, they give you a sheet that states specifically "If your condition persists past X amount of days or worsens, be seen by your family physician" they also give you warning symptoms to look out for and instructions to go to the nearest ER if X happens.

Doctors are not mind readers and diagnose on the symptoms they are presented with. I could see a doctor being negligent if she presented with abdominal pain and they didn't even check out her abdomen. Perhaps a bit more communication on both ends would have been helpful? I mean, Nikki is a young person presenting classic strep throat symptoms and the doctor could have felt that if he ordered a bunch of tests her parents would be coming in saying "Look she told you she didn't have insurance, why on earth did you order all sorts of expensive tests?"

I am just trying to point out that is important to teach your almost adult children what they should do and say if they end up in the hospital without a parent to speak on their behalf.

 

[JerseyJanice]

C. Ann, while I totally agree that a throat culture was in order in this case, I can also understand why a physician wouldn't order one for a self-paying patient.

The doctor no doubt thought he was treating her appropriately. An acute fever of 103 is not at all common for mono, but very much so for strep. ("Low grade" fevers are far more typical in mono cases--that and fatigue over an extended period of time. Not what was described here.)

A swollen liver? Well, an overdose of Tylenol certainly can cause that, but it's not something you'd typically see in an 18 year-old without other health issues. I mean, if she were taking Tylenol every four hours for several days, that in and of itself would not cause liver problems.

All I'm saying is that while I can understand why DW would be frustrated over a misdiagnosis by the ER doctor in the first place, I think she is incorrect to assume it happened because her DD had no insurance.

Which brings me round to another question--didn't you just have surgery yourself, Delswife? Were you insured for it? Either way, do you feel it affected YOUR care?

 

[poohandwendy]

All I'm saying is that while I can understand why DW would be frustrated over a misdiagnosis by the ER doctor in the first place, I think she is incorrect to assume it happened because her DD had no insurance.

Absolutely, I was one, with insurance, who was misdiagnosed by 4 separate doctors when I had mono. And blood tests were run by each doctor. One even suspected mono, but none of the tests were conclusive until the last test and by then my liver and spleen both were enlarged.

 

[C.Ann]

I agree that the frustration should have been geared more towards the misdiagnosis than the insurance issue because quite frankly, I think this particular doctor may very well have given the same diagnosis either way..

As for the symptoms she presented with (and given her age) it would not have been a "stretch" for them to consider the possibility of mono and investigate a bit further..

 

[dlrhine]

I have been part of the DIS since 1999 and everyone use to be so nice to each other and now I'm very sad and have a very heavy heart on reading some of these post. Please if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything. I really don't care how much money someone has, if they have insurance or not, or can afford a transplant...I care that they love each other and are there to support one another. I have two young girls who I pray will love people and support them regardless of race, wealthy, intellegence, etc. Love them for them, I hope I can instill that in them. I'm thankful that Nikki is doing better, and I know in my heart the Lord will watch over her and protect her and also provide for Robin's family as needed. Please just respect each other, and give Robin the love and support she needs. If you can't do that...don't post.

Robin, Love ya Mean it!!! You have my support, and I know what a wonderful Mother and Wife you are. We've had this talk, but I had to throw my 2cents worth in cause I can't stand to see you hurt.

Love ya Mean it,
Diane

 

[my3kids]

I hope your daughter will feel better soon. I got it my freshamn year of college. I was so exhausted I couldn't walk from the bed to the bathroom without sitting down for a break.

I had a couple of thoughts about insurance, which you've probably considered, but just in case.....In my school district a policy flyer comes home from school day one offering low cost health insurance for the student for a year. It is very inexpensive. If she is going to college, they will likely require an insurance policy and will also offer one to those who either are no longer insured by parents or whose policies don't cover out of network care.

Most states are now offering a low cost insurance for children. In my state they are begging people to sign up. Many who qualify don't fill out the papers. They run PSAs here to try to alert everyone to the program. In your state maybe it covers the whole family, but if not, at least the children would have it.

Please don't depend on a wealthy family for insurance if there is any other possible way to avoid doing it. While nice to have as a fallback, would they keep providing credit card numbers if you spent over a hundred thousand on a single hospital admission? I am young, healthy, and cost my insurance company well over $100K, and that was 10 years ago. No telling what a hospital stay would cost now. A young healthy friend had over a million in charges.....and she had skipped the NICU tour during Prepared Childbirth class because she thought they'd never need that. No one ever knows. That is why insurance needs to be one of the very top priorites for everyone.

I hope your daughter is up to the graduation ceremony. I bet that diploma will be the heaviest thing she is allowed to lift for a while!

 

[my3kids]

MaineCare will insure children 18 and under. In most cases the children are insured for free. If they charge a premium, it will be between $5 and $40 per month. If your family exceeds the income on the chart, it says you are still encouraged to apply because certain types of income are not counted.

Here is the website. It used to be called CubCare, but is now MaineCare. http://www.state.me.us/dhs/bfi/cubcare/CubCare.htm

 

[Saffron]

ACK! What a thread!

DelsWife -- I hope your daughter is much better today and I hope she has a wonderful weekend.

 

[ScarlettO]

I think this thread has been very informative.


When I was just starting out in my career, health insurance was the last thing I thought important. Once you own a home, start saving money, you realize all that can vanish *just like that* with a catostrophic illness. I hope that everyone look into the very low cost Health Insurance offered to low income families in their state-there is information on it at your local unemployment office or check online. You can also purchase catostrophic health Ins for $200 a month from Blue Cross.

 

[MsDisney23]

Robin, what a terrible thing, I hope your DD is feeling better. You sound like a wonderful Mother to have!

 

[wilderness01]

I hope your daughter is feeling better. Sorry for what you went through. The doc probably thought he was doing you a favor by not running tests. Was there patches in her throat? If so, that is probably why he assumed strep.

In any case, doctors make mistakes for people with or without insurance.

We have great insurance and we were sent home with our son who was 5 at the time who is a severe asthmatic with pneuomnia and RSV. We didn't know he had RSV until later because the ER doc didn't do that test. Our other son ended up in the hospital a few days later with RSV. He was only 3 months old at the time and was very ill. Then it made sense to the doc that our 5 year old wasn't getting better from the antibiotics because he also had the virus. Our little daughter was also very sick and wasn't getting better from the antibiotics either. She was only 4. We were told we had to wait a few days to see if they were working. Ok back to my 5 year old son.....he couldn't breath and was a pale blue color. They sent him home because they put a probe on him and his oxygen saturation level was reading 95%. He was already on medication previously prescribed by his regular doctor. He couldn't talk, he could only whisper, he couldn't blow his nose, he was kicking the doc when he was trying to exam him which was not in this docile kid's behavior. HE COULDN'T BREATH and that was why he was out of control. He lost 7 lbs in 3 days. He blew a 50 then a 25 on his peak flow meter which normally he blew a 200 to 210. HE WAS SENT HOME WITH NO ADDITIONAL MEDICINE. He should have been immediately hospitalized with IV's running. We are very blessed he didn't die. I am an RN and I was insisting that he stay. We have great insurance but he was sent home. Our pulmonary doc and regular doc were livid the next day. The ER doc lied to the pulmonary doc and said he was fine! The poor thing was so so sick. I stayed with him all noc and kept a vigil assuring he was still alive. The doctor's said the ER doc was wrong in what he did. He didn't know what he was doing. You see you could sat in the 90's and then code, then what? My point is to you that these things do happen, to everyone unfortunately. Maybe the doc shouldn't have verbalized "I will try to save you $ by not doing this or that test, but it sounds like just a misdiagnosis on his part. I have 2 other scenarios as well, both of which our other son ended up in the hospital for 3 days from the original ER doc not doing his job and being more aggressive on our first visit to the ER. I didn't insist that time again for additional care and was forced to go to another hospital because I didn't feel comfortable in what they were doing. I did write a letter to the Medical Director of the one ER doc and my bill was absorbed by the hospital for inadequate care. I didn't care about the bill. I wanted her spoken to. Really it is frustrating but it happens. People are people and they make mistakes. You must be your child's advocate, which you sound like you are. I am now like a mother bear when it comes to my kid's going to this particular ER, which is closest to where we live. I push it if I think they aren't doing their job. I had to push it one other time and the ER doc and I got in a big argument. Too bad. I was right. Our son was being sent home after 62 hours of vomitting. His lips were cracked and bleeding. There was no IV access on his upper extremities, he was extremely tired and he was not urinating anymore. He was only 19 months old. I insisted he stay as an observation patient. He said no. I said then you need to get security to remove us. I was not budging. My husband was horrified. Too bad. I knew I was right and this wasn't happening again at this ER. We have insurance and we aren't leaving. The doc left and was ticked. Too bad again. Well, guess what? Our baby started throwing up and stooling all over the ER room and was then admitted for 3 days. Idiot ER doc. I told the RN, "see I told you so. I don't care that he didn't vomit for the first 2 hours we were there. He is a sick baby. Tell the ER doc he is an idiot". Guess who never came back into our room? Our regular ped was mad again when he came in the next day. He said sometimes the ER docs just want to push people through like cattle. I don't have to be like a mother bear at the regular doctor's office because our peds are great and always do a great job. I know you were frustrated and I hope you are feeling better. I do feel for you with no insurance. But really, I hope you get something with insurance. One hospital stay could really knock you out for life. I wouldn't want to see that happen to anyone. Take care. I know your feelings are hurt but try not to let other's get to you. Unfortunately not everyone is as tactful in their speech but truely don't mean to be hurtful.

 

[Hagred]

I think Delswife's title of this thread is apt.

"Don't do me any favors"

For those who are picking on the lack of insurance for her 18 y/o daughter and insinuating that she's, at best, making bad choices or, at worse, a bad parent - "Don't do her any favors", please.

The woman comes here in tears, anger and fear for her daughter. She was looking for hugs, a shoulder to cry on and someone to just listen while she vented her frustration.

There's now, what? 14 pages of "You should get insurance" and several insinuations that she's a bad mother?

Please, don't do her any favors.

Robin, here's my that everything turns out OK for Nikki. I'm sure you're getting much support, love and good advice from your family and close friends. Rely on them. I'll miss you here on the DIS, but I'm glad I have your website address to keep up with all the wonderful happenings in your life.

 

[Mskanga]

Originally posted by AZKathy
I really hate to say this, but I have to. There are worse comments on the above web site about the DIS people. I lurked over there and the comments over there were worse about some of the DIS than what has been said over here.
Most of the people here on the DIS who commented were very kind and supported Robin and Nikki.

If you are meaning the Lodge as the above site ( which is the only one that can be seen above your post ) , you will see that Robin has received nothing else but support from the posters there, nobody there has criticised or judged Robin in any way. If you don't like that place, you don't have to go there.

To be very blunt, I don't feel the hospital was negligent. I feel a parent who has a child without health insurance is negligent. I'm sorry that sounds harsh, but that's how I feel.

Talk about that when you find yourself in that position, and don't tell me that you will never find yourself in those shoes because you never know what life has in store for you next. It's easy for you to judge others without walking in their shoes first.
Having health insurance sometimes is not all about having the money to pay for it, it's finding a company that will sell you the policy without so many restrictions, such as pre-existing conditions , many of them will not even consider selling you a policy if you have something that they consider a pre-existing condition, and that could be ANYTHING. Geez, I have insurance and my carrier can drop me anytime if I put too many claims in!

And for the one who said that has $100K aside for an emergency , lucky you, most people cannot afford to do that , if I could my house would be paid off.

Robin;
I'm so sorry that this thread turned out the way it did, but I am glad that Nikki is finally on her way to recovery.

 

[AZKathy]

Originally posted by Mskanga ]If you are meaning the Lodge as the above site ( which is the only one that can be seen above your post ) , you will see that Robin has received nothing else but support from the posters there, nobody there has criticised or judged Robin in any way. If you don't like that place, you don't have to go there.


Talk about that when you find yourself in that position, and don't tell me that you will never find yourself in those shoes because you never know what life has in store for you next. It's easy for you to judge others without walking in their shoes first.
Having health insurance sometimes is not all about having the money to pay for it, it's finding a company that will sell you the policy without so many restrictions, such as pre-existing conditions , many of them will not even consider selling you a policy if you have something that they consider a pre-existing condition, and that could be ANYTHING. Geez, I have insurance and my carrier can drop me anytime if I put too many claims in!

And for the one who said that has $100K aside for an emergency , lucky you, most people cannot afford to do that , if I could my house would be paid off.

Robin;
I'm so sorry that this thread turned out the way it did, but I am glad that Nikki is finally on her way to recovery.

Bingo, Mskanga! I did not say that place said anything bad about Robin. I said it said far worse things about the DIS than the DIS said to Robin. That was all. I saw full support for her there but terrible things said about the DIS.

And don't worry about going over there, the language is terrible and the things said were not nice at all.

Guess I did not make myself clear, there was most of us totally and fully supporting Robin here. A few posters made here sad, but still did not compare to the bad things said there.

 

[Mskanga]

Kathy, I think you are mistaken about sites, I do not think you meant the Lodge, I think you are talking about the TMC or whatever it is called these days.

 

[The Edge]

Robin seemed fine stating that her wealthy family will take care of her medical expenses with their unlimited funds. I guess I find it hard to imagine that the wealthy family would not help pay for insurance But what do I know? I don't have unlimited funds to back me up. I do have insurance though.