Don't do me any favors!

[Wish I lived in Fl]

Dear MoveOn member,
Next Saturday, June 19th, we hope you can join tens of thousands of people in a powerful action in support of health care for all Americans. The event, called "Bridging the Gap", is organized by our friends at SEIU, the Service Employees International Union. Details are below.

We hope you can make it -- please sign up today to take part.

Thanks for all you do, and have a great weekend.

--Peter Schurman and Rosalyn Lemieux
MoveOn.org
June 11th, 2004

Here are the details, from SEIU:

On Saturday, June 19th, tens of thousands of people -- those who have health insurance and those who don't, those who fear losing coverage and those who have too little -- will join together across the country to "bridge the gap" in health care. Bridging the Gap events generate local visibility and media coverage about the urgent need for health care reform. They range from local rallies or marches through town to "honk-and-wave" visibility events to walks across local bridges. To join in, go to:

http://www.bridgingthegapforhealthcare.org?rID=14

If there isn't detailed information about where to go for your event on the website, just RSVP and the event organizers will email you shortly with directions.

One goal of Bridging the Gap is to put a human face on the health care crisis by sharing personal stories. Online and at the events, Bridging the Gap participants will be talking about how lack of access to comprehensive health care insurance has effected them. You can share your own story by clicking on the link above. The story of Janelle Scott is a heart-wrenching illustration of the need for health care reform:

Lisa's daughter Janelle was 18 years old when she began experiencing chest pains and blackouts. She went to the doctor several times over a period of months, paying out of her own pocket because she didn't have any health coverage despite working two jobs. A week before she died, Janelle asked the practitioner to please do a chest x-ray because she was in so much pain. They turned her down because they said an x-ray would be too expensive without insurance. One week later, Janelle died.

"If Janelle had had health insurance, her doctor would have run every test possible until they found out what was wrong with her. What happened to my daughter should not happen to anyone, especially in a country like the United States."

This situation is a crisis; 44 million Americans are uninsured and millions more are underinsured. In the time it will take you to read this e-mail, 5 more people will lose their health care coverage. In the next week, nearly 50,000 mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and grandparents will lose access to afford quality health care.

On June 19th we will demand action by our elected officials. You can share your story, find a local event, or start an event near you at:

http://www.bridgingthegapforhealthcare.org?rID=14

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[ennazus]

Originally posted by Jeanny
Those are AFFORDABLE?? By whose standards?? The rate for single is just about ONE WEEK'S pay for me.
The monthly rate is about 3 weeks pay for me. If I had to buy that insurance, then I wouldn't be able to eat, pay my mortgage or drive my car to work. Yep, that's affordable health care in the United States these days.

I was just quoting the sites that I posted... and if you read them, you would have learned that those prices are the HIGHEST one would pay and they would be discounted for people who make less.

Let me tell you... I'll be thrilled to start with that policy in July!! it will beat the $1300- /month I currently pay! Being self-employed has it's downfalls.

Let me do the math for you:
40% off the family price of $780 would be $468... That's a $312 savings

40% off the individual price of 260- would bring it down to $156.00

I think that's pretty darn good!

 

[Mouse Man]

I don't think anyone is calling DW a bad parent. If anything, people are showing concern for her family. You can't rely on credit and cash for medical care. I used to live nearby a "trust fund baby". He was unemployed and living off of his fund. At 27, he had some unexpected medical emergencies and soon racked up around $95,000 in medical bills in one year. He paid it, but regretted never looking into insurance. $600 a month is pennies compared to 95 grand.

I don't see why some people are calling for an end to this thread.

 

[SugarBear]

Bottom line is that it's none of you judgemental people's business whether or not Robin has insurance, the issue was poor health care.

I could certainly understand if she never wanted to come back her, but knowing her she will, because she's as forgiving as you are undeserving of her forgiveness. I don't know how some of you can stand yourselves.

And I'd like to know why the moderators didn't stop all the personal attacks against Robin when they first started.


(((Hugs))) Robin, to you and Nikki. You're a wonderful Mom and don't let anyone tell you different. Just remember, small minds think small thoughts!

 

[dennis99ss]

If you are so wealthy, why not wave the cash at the first hospital? Why not buy health insurance? Did I miss something here. Someone with unlimited funds leaves the hospital without treatment that she knows is subpar?

 

[Mouse Man]

Originally posted by SugarBear
the issue was poor health care.
]

I couldn't agree with you more. I think it's horrible what happened to DW's daughter, but it's an unfortunate reality in our country that you need insurance to have good medical treatment. Health care for a family should be one of the top priorities. I'm not just talking about DW. It's true for everyone.

 

[Doesney]

Originally posted by SugarBear
And I'd like to know why the moderators didn't stop all the personal attacks against Robin when they first started./QUOTE]


I really do not think that anyone is hurling personal attacks. Quite the opposite, there seems to be genuine concern over her issues. Merely suggestions. I think what most people can't comprehend is if you can afford to go on vacations, you can afford to pay for health insurance. We all have our different ideas on what is important.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by Mouse Man
I don't see why some people are calling for an end to this thread.

------------------------

Maybe because it is now page 12 of people telling her over and over again - directly or indirectly - what a lousy parent she is for not having health insurance for her 18 yr. old DD ??

A tad bit of overkill, don't you think?

 

[SugarBear]

Originally posted by Doesney

Originally posted by SugarBear
And I'd like to know why the moderators didn't stop all the personal attacks against Robin when they first started./QUOTE]


I really do not think that anyone is hurling personal attacks. Quite the opposite, there seems to be genuine concern over her issues. Merely suggestions. I think what most people can't comprehend is if you can afford to go on vacations, you can afford to pay for health insurance. We all have our different ideas on what is important.

I think what most people can't comprehend is that it's none of their business what her financial status is or how she chooses to spend her money.

 

[gymnasticsmom68]

Originally posted by SugarBear


And I'd like to know why the moderators didn't stop all the personal attacks against Robin when they first started.

I honestly haven't seen any personal attacks. I think that most people here (me included) like Delswife, and none of us would say anything to hurt her. That being said, medical insurance is almost as important as breathing, as a matter of fact, if you are breathing you should have it. Lord knows, you just never know. I for one would not be thrilled with having to sell my house and go into debt to pay hospital bills when I could buy the insurance, or get a different job and get the insurance. Delswife, I hope you realize that nobody meant to hurt your feelings, I know I didn't.


Gymnasticsmom68 ~~~ AKA~~~~ aahmom1

 

[C.Ann]

I would consider the following a fairly personal attack:

To be very blunt, I don't feel the hospital was negligent. I feel a parent who has a child without health insurance is negligent. I'm sorry that sounds harsh, but that's how I feel.

-----------------------------

and there were others along the same vein as well..

I'm pretty sure she has already gotten the "point" about the lack of health coverage for her DD; what kind of job she should be looking for; whether or not she should be taking trips to Disney; etc., etc..

Major overkill...

 

[SugarBear]

Originally posted by C.Ann
Major overkill...

That doesn't even begin to describe it!

 

[AZKathy]

I really hate to say this, but I have to. There are worse comments on the above web site about the DIS people. I lurked over there and the comments over there were worse about some of the DIS than what has been said over here.

Most of the people here on the DIS who commented were very kind and supported Robin and Nikki.

Sorry, Robin, that you felt hurt over here, but I think you know most of us are very nice people.

Should I hit the back button? I bet I will regret doing this........<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_6.gif' border=0></a>

 

[Pongo69]

Originally posted by delswife
Well, if I wasn’t feeling bad enough…..

How can I argue any of this? I read the link from mudnuri about the laws in Maine. The guidelines are $17,964/yr for an individual. Nikki is 18 and legally an adult (does this still make me a negligent parent?) and her income is well below this total.

I still feel that she should have received the same treatment as someone that has insurance. I believe she has that right as a human being. I feel that she was ignored.

Why not at the very least give her something to reduce her fever? 103 degrees is dangerous.

If strep throat and mono are so closely related, why not take at least a throat culture? Guessing at what was wrong with her only resulted in another visit to the ER.

If strep throat and mono are so closely related, why give her an antibiotic that makes her condition worse? (She did have hives, I forgot to say that, sorry)

He took the time to look in her ears and throat, why didn’t he feel her abdomen for swelling?

I don’t feel my anger is misplaced. But thank you for pointing out to me that I am a failure at providing for my child. I will say a prayer that you never lose your professional job or have to dip into your transplant trust fund.

And trust me, if I ever thought for one second that spending $600 a month would mean the difference in my daughters life and death, I would have found a way to pay it. I pay our doctors bills at the time of the visit. I would pay the hospital bill. I never would have believed that because she doesn’t have insurance she wasn’t entitled to the same care as anyone else.

Believe me, lesson learned okay? I am looking at health insurance for her. I am doing the best I can. Before this I never realized how badly I needed it. That she wouldn’t qualify for the same care as anyone else because of a card.

Luckily for most of you, you will never have to learn this lesson. If someone had ever said to me, “Pay us $600 a month or your kid will die.” I would have listened. Most people I know don’t have insurance. 254,000 Mainers went without health insurance at some point in 2001-2002.

I did get my feelings hurt in this thread, however I also did learn a lot from this thread.

~Thank you all for you hugs prayers and advice.

Robin, I don't know you but let me say I hope your daugther is feeling better.
Another thing, don't let what other people say make you feel bad. YOU know your a good mother and thats all that matters.

Remember NO matter what there will always be someone who spouts off without thinking how their words might hurt someone.
I always say people can look down their nose and think they will never go thru some kind of hardship in life just because they have money to do this or that. *NEWSFLASH*
Everything you have can dissapear in a twinkle of an eye. I don't care how much stock, money or any other material items you cherish. What might not be expensive to some is very expensive to someone else. Just because someone can or can't afford something does not make that person any less than you.

People really need not forget that the same people you meet on your way up you will meet on the way down.

GODBLESS Robin and Nikki

 

[Grog]

I lurked over there and the comments over there were worse about some of the DIS than what has been said over here.

You are right, but IMO they brought that on themselves. They should have realized what kind of thread this was once they read the OP. It was obvious that Robin was frustrated and hurt, and needed to vent. If Robin had asked for opinions, then it would have been different. It's like we have our own version of the Dementors from Harry Potter here. They see a person being consoled in a thread they don't agree with, and instead of simply hitting the back button, they swoop in to suck all the life, all the good, out of the thread. I'm really biting my tongue (or fingers) here. Maybe I need to go over to that other site so I can say how I really feel about people like that.

 

[MizlurksaLot]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
excuse me, but THE HOSPITAL DID NOT BREAK THE LAW!!


the doctor made a DIAGNOSIS, TREATED Nikki, her a PRESCRIPTION.

how did that BREAK THE LAW?

interesting reading on mono

Please, don't excuse yourself on my account. Perhaps I misspoke on that one. OK, so what they did wasn't technically illegal. However, the fact of the matter is this - they did the minimal that they had to do by law. They didn't do the right tests to make a proper diagnosis, the did what was cheapest and least time consuming for them. While they in fact did not illegal, it was pretty close to it and certainly unethical. I apologize if I offended you, that wasn't my intention at all, i was simply trying to say that what happened was wrong and shouldn't happen to anyone under any circumstances.

Because there are so many different symptoms, the doctor may mistake the illness for the flu or even strep throat. In fact, some teens have mono and strep throat at the same time.

I realize that doctors are human and there for not perfect and are capable of making mistakes, but perhaps if they had taken the time to do the proper tests, they would have made a proper diagnosis to begin with.



I apologize in advance for the bold, I couldn't figure out how to get it off, I wasn't trying to emphasize anything.

 

[MizlurksaLot]

Originally posted by jipsy
What law are you referring to? In 1990 I worked for a private hospital. This means they did not accept any sort of outside "help" or funding from any government sources. Therefore if you showed up and didn't have insurance, they had every right to turn you away and send you over to the public hospital across town, which accepted government funding, plus medicare, medicaid, etc. and were REQUIRED to take you, regardless of your financial situation. Doing so did not break any law. Whether anyone likes it or not, the owners of that hospital were in BUSINESS and anyone who owns a business knows it is not good business sense to accept everyone who walks through the door who cannot give good financial information for paying the bill. The worst part about it (or the best part, depending on how you look at it), is that you received so much better care at the private hospital vs. the public one, because they could afford much better equipment, doctors, nurses, etc. for the very reason that they weren't having to foot the medical bills of people who didn't have insurance or credit cards with unlimited spending.

I state this, not to berate delswife for not having insurance, but to prove the point that turning our healthcare into a socialist system will not make it better, it will only make it worse.

I hope Nikki feels better. I read your post delswife, and it sounds to me like the doctor was way out of line by saying what he did to Nikki. Since SMMC is a not-for-profit health care facility, even though he treated her, it doesn't sound like she got the best treatment. While I do agree that you need to get some sort of insurance if at all possible, it still doesn't excuse the doctor for giving her half-*** treatment. I think I'd be calling the hospital administrator and having a chat...

I shouldn't have said no hospital, I should have said no public hospital. I didn't realize that the origanl hospital was private. Even so, wether illegal or not the treatment, or lack there of was still unethical.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

Originally posted by MizlurksaLot
Please, don't excuse yourself on my account. Perhaps I misspoke on that one. OK, so what they did wasn't technically illegal. However, the fact of the matter is this - they did the minimal that they had to do by law. They didn't do the right tests to make a proper diagnosis, the did what was cheapest and least time consuming for them. While they in fact did not illegal, it was pretty close to it and certainly unethical. I apologize if I offended you, that wasn't my intention at all, i was simply trying to say that what happened was wrong and shouldn't happen to anyone under any circumstances.



I realize that doctors are human and there for not perfect and are capable of making mistakes, but perhaps if they had taken the time to do the proper tests, they would have made a proper diagnosis to begin with.



I apologize in advance for the bold, I couldn't figure out how to get it off, I wasn't trying to emphasize anything.

and then very likely they would have SENT HER HOME! that's where I have the problem with "substandard" care.


I feel bad for Nikki, I feel bad for Robin. the whole situation is miserable. but frankly i don't see anything unethical or illegal going on here.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by Pongo69
*NEWSFLASH*
Everything you have can dissapear in a twinkle of an eye. I don't care how much stock, money or any other material items you cherish. What might not be expensive to some is very expensive to someone else. Just because someone can or can't afford something does not make that person any less than you.

People really need not forget that the same people you meet on your way up you will meet on the way down.

----------------------------------------

Extremely well said!!!! People can be terribly naive (even smug at times) when it comes to believing they have secured their own futures.. Life and life circumstances are constantly shifting and moving and no matter how well one plans for their "future", they will never be as secure as they foolishly allow themselves to believe..

Perhaps a better attitude would be "There but for the grace of God go I....."

 

[JerseyJanice]

I've been watching this thread all day and not wanting to comment because I do feel for you and your daughter, DW. I'm sorry that Nikki caught mono. It's not a nice illness to have, and I hope and pray she makes a full recovery.

BUT speaking on behalf of hospital administrators everywhere (and that is my job), you are way off-base to be very angry with the ER at Southern Maine.

First of all, they DID TREAT her. They did not run a throat culture--something you and I agree ought to have been done--but they ABSOLUTELY TREATED her.

They gave her a script for amoxicillin and advised her to take Tylenol. That is treating her.

Next, I'm tending to think that no one with a sore throat belongs in an ER (since throat infections are rarely life-threatening).

Was there no pediatrician or general practioner within a 30-minute driving radius to treat her? No Urgent Care facilities?

Nikki was admitted as a self-paying patient into the ER. The physician on staff probably had no way of knowing that she had multiple credit cards with no limits on them to pay for the services rendered.

I'm sure he thought he was helping you out in not running up your bill by ordering a bunch of tests.

Frankly, (and I'm not saying you would do this), you could dispute a CC charge by saying that the tests ordered were not necessary. And then the bill would go into collection, and the hospital would have to settle for pennies on the dollar of what it cost to treat your daughter.

Many people seem to have a hard time comprehending that hospitals are a business. They can't legally turn you away if you're in labor or gushing blood, but the fact of the matter is that physicians and nurses need to get paid. They have to eat too!

If a hospital racks up a ton of bad debts from self-pay patients, how can it keep up with its obligations? Like its payroll, supplies, pharmaceuticals, utility costs, etc.

Glad to hear she's on the mend, but I hope you can try to see the hospital's POV. I think they had everyone's best interests in mind by not "over" treating your DD.