Don't Delay the DTV Transition!

[mkingdomlvr]

Totally. They finally set a date and stuck to it this time, unlike their previous "deadlines." Why change it? They can push the date back for years...there will ALWAYS be someone who is not prepared. Tough ****! There have been announcements on nearly all braodcast stations DAILY for months. How are people not prepared?

oh, they'll find some idiot to parade in front of Congress who "didn't have any idea" that he would lose his TV.

 

[disney1990]

I don't know ANYONE who does not have cable or satellite TV. Without cable, you don't get any reception in my area. I would like to know how many people this actually impacts. Anyone have any idea?

2 people I can think of - my 87 year old father in law. He is legally blind but likes to listen to the television and my 85 year old mom who doesn't see the need for cable television since she only watches daytime television.

 

[bicker]

Where can we buy leaded fuel for our 1963 Plymouth Fury? (Nowhere.)

Where can we use our AMPS cellular telephone? (Nowhere.)

Where can we find today's #1 pop album on cassette tape? (Nowhere.)

Where will we be able to buy blank VHS tapes, after current inventories run out? (Nowhere.)

 

[bicker]

Something will always come up that can be used as a rationalization by those who simply don't care to be bothered. That's why the date has been pushed in the past, and why Congress decided to set a deadline date, four years in advance, so that people have more than enough time, regardless of what happens.

There are stations that have already transitioned, as trials and as the vanguard of the transition, who will lose viewers to the stations that procrastinators will watch instead. Part of the planning involved the recognition that all stations must go pretty-much all-at-once (or at least within a small window), because of these competitive concerns. In addition, the entire city of Wilmington, NC, has already transitioned.

Stations have structured maintenance plans based on the transition. Our local Fox affiliate's analog transmission capability was destroyed a few months ago. In a normal situation, they'd have spent tens of thousands of dollars to replace it by now, but instead they patched something together and are operating a low-power for now. They need to know exactly when the transition is to happen so that they can make good decisions about what money to spend for what.

Industry has already bought and paid for the spectrum that the transition will free up. Companies have business plans to execute, capitalizing on the money that they've already spent, spent in consideration of a promise to make the spectrum available. The country must act in good faith. It cannot sell something, take the money, and then not deliver on the schedule outlined in the sales contract.

Most people have known about the transition for a long time, and some have even made expenditures in consideration of the date that the government told them -- expenditures that they perhaps would have preferred to make later. The government's action deliberately (and rightfully) prompted people to make some expenditures now -- it is unfair to reward people who refused to heed the government's warnings about the transition and punish those that did listen to the government.

The government worked with manufacturers on the transition, making commitments to the manufacturers that a market for what the government wanted the manufacturers to sell would exist. And it has until now, but if the transition is pushed out, then sales forecasts are totally scuttled. After representing to industry that the date was firm, and having industry incur expense to build inventories in consideration of that being the date, it is irresponsible to change the date.

Some more details on this message, carried over from another thread...

As of January 5, 134 stations have already terminated analog transmission and transitioned to digital. (The one I mentioned, WFXT Fox Boston, is the highest profile station that terminated its analog transmission already, but is not the only "Big Four" station to do so. I do know that the New Orleans Fox station has already transitioned to digital.)

Another 257 stations are planning on doing the transition to digital before February 17, some this weekend. Once they turn off the analog signal, they dismantle the transmitter, and not even an act of Congress can reverse that.

In addition, leading up to February 17, many stations have planned engineering projects (and some are already underway with more starting this week), modifying their antennas for post-transition digital operation -- these modifications explicitly degrade the analog signal. Once those modifications begin, again not even an act of Congress can reverse them.

The bottom line is the transition is underway, even though the mainstream press and Congress don't appear to realize it.

 

[Charade]

Don't have a horse in this race as all my TVs are covered, but in my experience as well as many others the coupon program was a joke. We signed up asap and were given dated cards yet no places in the area had any boxes.

Really? Walmart has them.

 

[bicker]

I picked mine up at Radio Shack. I saw some at CVS (our local drug store). Rumor is that there are some at the Shaws supermarket. Of course, you can find them at Circuit City and Best Buy.

In addition, you have been able to purchase them online, from amazon.com, still using your coupon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_7337262_1?ie=UTF8&docId=1000246011

Also, online stores such as bestbuy.com, circuitcity.com, and others have filled orders for CECBs as long as the order was made via their toll-free telephone number.

 

[ntburns22]

Honestly this whole DTV thing has me alittle upset. I am one of the people that truly can't afford to go out and buy a new tv or add cable to my home at this time. I have rabbit ears on 3 TV's and with the rabbit ears I get a clear picture of 4 channels and a fuzzy 2. I have 2 boxes and on those TVs I get 1 channel. Yep 1 channel and it goes in and out. I am greatful if the switch gets pushed back. It will give me more time to find a new job and add a cable package to my home.

 

[bicker]

Keep in mind that one of the things delaying the transition would cause is a delay in increasing many of the digital channels to full power.

I'm asking, in another forum, for a full list of those channels, currently operating at low-power, going to full-power after the transition. I'll post it here once I get my hands on it.

 

[ntburns22]

Thanks, that would be great.

 

[bicker]

I think I found it: FCC document FCC-07-138A1. However, it is 131 pages, and the information is kind-of embedded deeply in the narrative.

This is what I've found out so far, for Ohio (where you live -- other folks concerned let me know and I'll look up your states). Unlike here in the Boston area, the vast majority of television stations in Ohio are actually waiting for the digital transition to switch to their permanent, full-power frequencies:

(Call Letters / City / Current DTV Channel --> Permanent DTV Channel)

WVPX AKRON OH 59 --> 23
WNEO ALLIANCE OH 46 --> 45
WBGU BOWLING GREEN OH 56 --> 27
WKRC CINCINNATI OH 31 --> 12
WJW CLEVELAND OH 31 --> 8
WKYC CLEVELAND OH 2 --> 17
WPTD DAYTON OH 58 --> 16
WBDT SPRINGFIELD OH 18 --> 26
WTOV STEUBENVILLE OH 57 --> 9
WTOL TOLEDO OH 17 --> 11
WTVG TOLEDO OH 19 --> 13

Only one Ohio television channel will operate permanently on its original digital channel assignment.

WTTE COLUMBUS OH 36 --> 36

This digital channel is operating at 1000 kW right now (while the corresponding analog channel is operating at 1440 kW), and I cannot find any indication that they're going to increase power of this channel after the transition. I'd have to do a bit more research on that, but before I do, I want to make sure that you're in the Columbus area, and that this is not the one digital channel that you are getting good reception on already. Eh?

 

[Charade]

I predict the boxes will be $20 about 6 months after the cutoff date.

Why are the boxes $50 (give or take) when a whole new digital TV (13 inch) is about $100?

 

[ntburns22]

I think I found it: FCC document FCC-07-138A1. However, it is 131 pages, and the information is kind-of embedded deeply in the narrative.

This is what I've found out so far, for Ohio (where you live -- other folks concerned let me know and I'll look up your states). Unlike here in the Boston area, the vast majority of television stations in Ohio are actually waiting for the digital transition to switch to their permanent, full-power frequencies:

(Call Letters / City / Current DTV Channel --> Permanent DTV Channel)

WVPX AKRON OH 59 --> 23
WNEO ALLIANCE OH 46 --> 45
WBGU BOWLING GREEN OH 56 --> 27
WKRC CINCINNATI OH 31 --> 12
WJW CLEVELAND OH 31 --> 8
WKYC CLEVELAND OH 2 --> 17
WPTD DAYTON OH 58 --> 16
WBDT SPRINGFIELD OH 18 --> 26
WTOV STEUBENVILLE OH 57 --> 9
WTOL TOLEDO OH 17 --> 11
WTVG TOLEDO OH 19 --> 13

Only one Ohio television channel will operate permanently on its original digital channel assignment.

WTTE COLUMBUS OH 36 --> 36

This digital channel is operating at 1000 kW right now (while the corresponding analog channel is operating at 1440 kW), and I cannot find any indication that they're going to increase power of this channel after the transition. I'd have to do a bit more research on that, but before I do, I want to make sure that you're in the Columbus area, and that this is not the one digital channel that you are getting good reception on already. Eh?

Thank you so much. I am in the Cleveland area.

 

[bicker]

I predict the boxes will be $20 about 6 months after the cutoff date. Why are the boxes $50 (give or take) when a whole new digital TV (13 inch) is about $100?

Well, to be fair, the tuner is the second most expensive part of a television, rivaled only by the display (and with how much LCD itself has come down in price in recently years, I bet it is pretty close, now). Two years ago, I remember the price being $180 for a digital tuner, so prices are coming down quickly, as production volumes increase.

The CECB program itself was put in place, at least in part, to foster a profitable-enough market for ATSC-compatible tuners so that manufacturers would produce them, and retailers stock them, in sufficient quanities to cover the anticipated need. Without the CECB program, you're probably right that they would have a hard time maintaining a price above $40, and therefore profits would be too small, and therefore there would have been inadequate incentive to make or sell these boxes.

By the same token, once the CECB program is over (i.e., all the coupons have expired), price competition will be unchecked. (The CECB program acts like government interference in the market.) Prices will drop, and so will the incentive to produce and stock the boxes. Figure that this time next year, the boxes will be a lot cheaper (though $20? not sure they'll go that low), but also a lot harder to find in stores.

What you will find will be the deluxe boxes. For example, Echostar released two CECBs... the DTVPal (retails for about $60 now), and the DTVPal Plus ($70), which simply has a better tuner. I suspect what we'll see is, as the base price for the stripped-down ATSC tuner boxes decreases, the boxes available in stores will have more and more extra features added to them, fostering an extra $10-$20 on the price tag.

 

[shortbun]

lol, I swear some of you would put the old, poor and indigent on a barge with nothing and sail them like refugees out into the ocean. This is not a matter that has gotten that much attention. Our TV personalities have made a promotion out of it here and I can imagine many people thinking it was some kind of sales gimic. I've read all the technical stuff and I get the intention, I just don't see that there need to be a drop dead deadline right now when the Community Outreach people say there are literally thousands in each major city who will not have service. I ordered coupons in the beginning because I thought everyone would need them-not understanding the whole set up- and I've taken them to the Community Center so someone who didn't get in fast like I did could have them. Television is how many people get emergency information or their only link to the world. We can not be so callous as to wish these people ill just because we perceive them as drags on our society.
I think a delay while more work is done to make sure most are covered is in order.

 

[bicker]

Thank you so much. I am in the Cleveland area.

More information for you:

WBNX has applied to raise its antenna 25 additional feet.

WVIZ is currently operating at 100kW (no, that's not 1000 -- it is 100) digital and 2140 kW analog.... that'll surely change after the transition, eh?

WEWS is already operating a full-power (870 kW).

WOIO will triple its power output.

 

[bicker]

This is not a matter that has gotten that much attention.

You're mistaken. The extent to which the digital transition has been promoted is unprecedented. That was really my point, in some of my earlier postings: that there is no excuse for having gotten to this point without being prepared for the transition. To be unprepared, you would have had to either deliberately resisted taking appropriate action, or deliberately avoided the reasonable venues for distributing information you'd need to take appropriate action. It's no different from people throwing out flyers from the City that provide new information about the rules for recycling, and then getting upset when their recyclables are left sitting on the curb.

We can not be so callous as to wish these people ill just because we perceive them as drags on our society.

No one has been callous, except perhaps the folks who through their inaction have provided the seed for this fabricated panic some anti-transition advocates were just dying to capitalize on.

I think a delay while more work is done to make sure most are covered is in order.

The vast majority are already covered. It is believed that there hasn't been a significant increase in the level of preparedness in the last month or so, i.e., that there isn't a big difference between how many people are unprepared now versus how many people will be unprepared whenever the transition takes place (one month from now, three months from now, six months from now, a year from now, etc.) -- that many of those who are still unprepared will not take effective action until after the transition, itself, forces them to do so.

 

[Charade]

lol, I swear some of you would put the old, poor and indigent on a barge with nothing and sail them like refugees out into the ocean. This is not a matter that has gotten that much attention. Our TV personalities have made a promotion out of it here and I can imagine many people thinking it was some kind of sales gimic. I've read all the technical stuff and I get the intention, I just don't see that there need to be a drop dead deadline right now when the Community Outreach people say there are literally thousands in each major city who will not have service. I ordered coupons in the beginning because I thought everyone would need them-not understanding the whole set up- and I've taken them to the Community Center so someone who didn't get in fast like I did could have them. Television is how many people get emergency information or their only link to the world. We can not be so callous as to wish these people ill just because we perceive them as drags on our society.
I think a delay while more work is done to make sure most are covered is in order.

(skipping comment on the ridiculous remark...)

The point is MOST are already covered and don't need the coupons for the converter boxes. The ads for this have been on TV for at least a year. How much more time do people need to fully understand and prepare for this? Someone commented on her 90+ year old relative not knowing what a website is. While I don't doubt that a lot of older folks are in the same position, they also listed a phone number. Now I suppose some could argue they don't have a phone (which might be true). I think it's impossible for every aspect of a conversion like this (which hopefully be in place for a long long time) to be considered. Some people will not understand or not take the time to prepare. The government can only do so much. That's where regular people (like yourself) come in to try and make sure those that truly need help will get it. There will be some people who will fall through the cracks. That's sad but it's a harsh reality of life.

 

[bicker]

One of the unique ideas I've seen posted is that, if there is a delay, that the analog channels broadcast only in black and white from February 17 on. If that doesn't get people's attention then nothing will.

 

[Charade]

One of the unique ideas I've seen posted is that, if there is a delay, that the analog channels broadcast only in black and white from February 17 on. If that doesn't get people's attention then nothing will.

But but but... that's punitive.

Or how about a giant crawler repeating

"What are you waiting for? Convert now! What are you waiting for? Convert now! What are you waiting for? Convert now!"

 

[loco4dis]

Maybe it isn't federally funded, but the taxpayers are going to get hit for it somewhere. If my county purchased that bandwidth for emergency services, they will pass those costs on to me as a taxpayer.

My point is, watching TV is NOT a right. It is a privilege for those who can afford it. Last I checked, radio was still free, so the claim that these people will not have access to emergency messages, weather forecasts or the news is just bunk.

Next we'll be hearing that the converter boxes don't work well enough and we'll have to have some program to pay for cable/satellite TV for these people!

While I would usually agree with you about yet more government funding of some program or another, in this case it was the legislative actions of the government itself that led to the need for these converter boxes. The television signal has historically been "free" if one was willing to settle for the limited channels available by antenna. One must purchase a television, of course, but the basic signal has always come free of charge unless someone chose to "upgrade" to cable or satellite. Now, the government has taken actions that make those previously purchased televisions unable to receive that signal. I think they have a responsibility to those citizens, many of whom are poor and elderly. That's just my opinion.

Let's start with your last question, since it is critical:

Television is broadcast, over the air, using radio frequencies allocated to broadcasters by the government, by license. That's how the government gets involved.

The government set us on the path towards digital television in 1996, for several reasons. One of the things that the United States relies on for its economic vitality is fostering technological innovation and advancement. Also, digital television provides far superior audio and video quality, using significantly less of the available bandwidth. Also, there are other things our nation and its people could do with radio frequency bandwidth if we weren't using so much of it for television.

The digital transition will take a significant number of channels out of the realm of television (everything from channel 52 to 69) and make that available for new services and for use by emergency services. However, of course, in order for that to happen, whatever is on those channels now needs to be moved down below channel 52. That can only happen if some channels below channel 52 are cleared out. So analog channels below 52 will all be turned off, and all those channels then become available for use by the digital channels currently on channel 52 and above.

The country has been trying to get the digital transition rolling for many years now, but as with many things, people are going to wait until other people do things before they do it. As a result, it became a staring contest, with everyone waiting for someone else to make the first move. That is why setting a specific date for the DTV transition was necessary. That forced everyone to do something rather than everyone continuing to wait.

Hey, thanks for the history. I did not know any of that and it was interesting. Since you seem quite knowledgeable in this area, I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to: If I have older, non-digital TVs hooked to cable in the back (but without a cable box), will I need to get a box for those TVs? I've seen this answered both yes and no, so I'm not sure. Thanks!