Does DVC reserve the right to allow booking only at home resorts?

[Mississippian]

As for the location issue, occupancy levels at Old Key West, Animal Kingdom Lodge, Port Orleans French Quarter, Port Orleans Riverside, Coronado Springs, Pop Century and the All Star Resorts seem to indicate that location is not the be-all and end-all of criteria used to select a resort.

Actually they prove my point. Occupancy levels really don't matter; what matters is what the properties command on the open market. AKL is arguably as nice a resort as the Polynesian. Some would say nicer. But AKL has a crappy location that results in it having much, much lower room rates than the Poly.

If I were to have a timeshare interest in the Polynesian, and suddenly found out that identical units were being offered at AKL, I would be upset, because I would correctly believe that these additional units at a "lesser" resort would make my ownership less valuable. Not that I absolutely hate the AKL, but I'd take the Poly nine times out of 10, and the market agrees with me.

The French Quarter is, in many ways, as nice as any deluxe property out there. But it lack a restaurant and easy access to the parks, and so rents for a fraction of what the deluxe properties command.

Apparently location IS everying, or almost everything.

 

[Beca]

If I were to have a timeshare interest in the Polynesian, and suddenly found out that identical units were being offered at AKL, I would be upset, because I would correctly believe that these additional units at a "lesser" resort would make my ownership less valuable. Not that I absolutely hate the AKL, but I'd take the Poly nine times out of 10, and the market agrees with me.

QUOTE]

Then, I am not sure that DVC is right for you....really, it is not all that "right" for me! I wish I could own "exclusive" rights at BCV...I'd give up all the trading priviledges that DVC offers just to be able to book at BCV 2-3 months out....but, unfortunately that does not happen. And, that's okay....I find it a little sad that we are not staying at least a few nights at VWL this Christmas...I really do love it there, too! (hmm...maybe a small add-on there).

Now, if the Poly or Contemporary opens...they will certainly be THE most expensive DVC properties to date (and, I imagine they will sell very quickly)...but, they'll trade point for point for any other DVC resort....like it or hate it...it's just the way it is. I paid more for my BCV on the resale market than anyone ever has for a non-sold out DVC property when purchased from DVC. Yet, all resorts trade "point for point" into my home. And, to be fair....there are a lot of people who own at BCV and paid a LOT less than me when they bought from DVC. And, the original OKW owners paid appx. $50 per point (give or take a few dollars), and their points would trade the same into your Poly.

It's funny...DVC has always (for as long as they have had two or more resorts) "discounted" one more than the other. Prices (adjusting for discounts) have never been the same. Even now, SSR is selling for $83.80 per point (with a longer contract), and the other resorts are selling for $92 per point. Does that mean that the others are more "valuable" than SSR? Nope....simply supply and demand. And, it is totally in the eye of the beholder. Someone posted the other day that her salesman told her that even in spite of the price differential, DVC considers SSR the "flagship" of all DVC properties. Is that just a salesman talking? Who knows!!

The point is this....DVC "levels" the playing field between resorts...a point, is a point is a point....whether you paid $50 when DVC first opened, or $122 off of an ebay auction. DVC does differentiate between resorts as far as "how many points are needed for a night". In that ranking, BWV, BCV and VWL are at the top of the list (most $$$$), then comes SSR and finally OKW (the bargain of the DVC properties). And, ironically the points at OKW are not the lowest because DVC considers it to be a "lesser" resort, but because DVC didn't really know what it was doing when it built the first resort, and didn't realize just how far it could "push" people financially. As a result, OKW owners get the "deal of the century" as far as points are concerned.

The fact that SSR requires fewer points per night than VWL-BCV-BWV is interesting, and I am not sure what reason a guide would give for that....probably something along the lines of "Well, we realized our points were just too expensive, and adjusted them for the benefit of all our members." Is that the truth? I have no idea...after all, it is just speculation. Maybe DVC realized that due to SSR's location and size, they would need to "sweeten the pot"...I don't know. But, one thing is for sure....if DVC thought they could charge more points per night for a room there and have people buy and book it....they would. So, there had to be some justification for the difference.

A lot of SSR owners on these boards feel "unwelcome" by older DVC owners. I think the concern you mentioned about feeling someone would be "invading" your Poly is exactly what owners of VWL-BCV-BWV feel. SSR will be larger than those three resorts combined, and owners feel like they will always have to plan far ahead to stay at their home resort (which is selling for more than SSR)...it ruffles some feathers. It does concern me, too....but the SSR owners are not to blame for this....they just want a "piece of the magic", too. This is a DVD problem. It is the size of SSR that is scaring so many non-SSR owners....not anything to do with the resort itself.

It is something to seriously consider before you purchase DVC....if the "equality" of all the resorts is something you can handle emotionally considering your rather hefty investment. Unfortunately....there is no other way to purchase DVC.



Beca

 

[tjkraz]

Occupancy levels really don't matter; what matters is what the properties command on the open market. AKL is arguably as nice a resort as the Polynesian. Some would say nicer. But AKL has a crappy location that results in it having much, much lower room rates than the Poly.

Apparently location IS everying, or almost everything.

Interesting that you chose those two resorts to try and make a point when a much better comparison exists:

Poly Garden View - Value Season: $304
Grand Floridian Garden View - Value Season: $349
Contemporary Garden Wing Standard View - Value Season: $244

All three resorts in the Deluxe class.
All three resorts on the monorail line.
All three resorts with identical distance from and transportation to the theme parks.

Yet the rates for comparable rooms cover a spread of more than $100.

Apparently loction is FAR from "everything".

I agree wth Beca...based upon this post and others you clearly have expectations of DVC that are completely unrealistic. DVC is a prepaid vacation plan. It is not an investment. The only guarantees are your access to XXX points per year and exclusive access to your Home resort for four months. If you had greater expectations going into DVC, then you erred.

Furthermore, whether or not you consider future resorts to be "lesser" is arbitrary and irrelevant.

 

[TDC Nala]

Nothing wrong with SSR.

In fact, should it occur (unlikely) that you'd be able to book only at your home resort, SSR owners would have a much better chance at availability for popular times than us BCV owners. We'd be clawing and scratching to be the first to connect to MS to get those day to day reservations since the resort is so much smaller.

 

[Mississippian]

Interesting that you chose those two resorts to try and make a point when a much better comparison exists:

Poly Garden View - Value Season: $304
Grand Floridian Garden View - Value Season: $349
Contemporary Garden Wing Standard View - Value Season: $244

All three resorts in the Deluxe class.
All three resorts on the monorail line.
All three resorts with identical distance from and transportation to the theme parks.

Yet the rates for comparable rooms cover a spread of more than $100.

Apparently loction is FAR from "everything".

I agree wth Beca...based upon this post and others you clearly have expectations of DVC that are completely unrealistic. DVC is a prepaid vacation plan. It is not an investment. The only guarantees are your access to XXX points per year and exclusive access to your Home resort for four months. If you had greater expectations going into DVC, then you erred.

Furthermore, whether or not you consider future resorts to be "lesser" is arbitrary and irrelevant.

Tjkraz,
Actually, you again prove my point on location. I used the comparison of the AKL and the Poly because they both show similar attention to detail. The overall feel, according to many, is very similar. So if the pricing is different on these resorts, it must be primarily due to location.

Yes, the Contemporary garden wing rooms are cheap despite a good location. I enjoy these rooms, but they are crappily themed, are like a nice Motel 6, and the only reason to stay there is the location. IF these rooms weren't served by the monorail and theoretically part of a hotel with great restaurants, they would rent for the same or less than the rooms at the French Quarter.

As I said, location to parks and access to on-site restaurants are everything and I thank you for proving my point.

 

[TDC Nala]

Isn't the Wilderness Lodge location "better" than the AKL? And they are very similar resorts, yet they are priced the same despite the variations in locality.

 

[Mississippian]

It is the size of SSR that is scaring so many non-SSR owners....not anything to do with the resort itself.

Beca,
I agree with you about the size being the big problem. There are clearly a lot of people who love SSR, and if it only had 200 units, I would think it a great addition, even if it's not for me.

But any reasonable observer can see that it will make ownership at the other resorts less rewarding, and make it much harder for BCV, BWV and VWL owners to book at their home resort (and perhaps OKW as well). I have a right not to like this!

As I said in my first post in this thread, I wish DVC would make it harder to book away from one's home resort, perhaps by charging some type of surcharge. This would allow everyone to sample the other resorts, which is nice, while allowing people a greater chance to book at the resort they chose as their "home."

 

[TDC Nala]

As I said in my first post in this thread, I wish DVC would make it harder to book away from one's home resort, perhaps by charging some type of surcharge. This would allow everyone to sample the other resorts, which is nice, while allowing people a greater chance to book at the resort they chose as their "home."

Wow, I'm not for this, since my home resort is smaller than most of the others and will book up faster. Why should I pay a surcharge to book elsewhere because my resort is full?

 

[Mississippian]

Isn't the Wilderness Lodge location "better" than the AKL? And they are very similar resorts, yet they are priced the same despite the variations in locality.

I would put Wilderness Lodge in second in a comparison to AKL in the overall theming catagory, although both are very, very nice. Wilderness Lodge has a reputation for having the worst transportation at WDW, and the boats to the Magic Kingdom are so impractical that they have added bus service that is quicker than the boats.

So what I would say is that the Wilderness Lodge has a slightly better location, but that AKL is slightly better themed, and they should rent for about the same, which they do.

Put either resort on a monorail or within walking distance of the Magic Kingdom or Epcot, and you know the room rates would skyrocket.

 

[tjkraz]

As I said, location to parks and access to on-site restaurants are everything and I thank you for proving my point.

You are contradicting yourself. If location was "everything", then prices would be identical for the entry-level rooms at all three monorail resorts. Period.

I don't need you to provide justification for the lower rates at different resorts. That's exactly the point I was making.

Again, location is not "everything". If it were, they would be getting the same per-night rate for that "Motel 6"-type room as they do for a Garden View at the Grand Floridian.

Location is just part of the equation...not the be-all, end-all.

 

[Beca]

But any reasonable observer can see that it will make ownership at the other resorts less rewarding, and make it much harder for BCV, BWV and VWL owners to book at their home resort (and perhaps OKW as well). I have a right not to like this!

As I said in my first post in this thread, I wish DVC would make it harder to book away from one's home resort, perhaps by charging some type of surcharge. This would allow everyone to sample the other resorts, which is nice, while allowing people a greater chance to book at the resort they chose as their "home."

You're totally right that you have reason not to like DVC's system. There are certainly things I like about DVC, and other things I am not so crazy about. As an owner at one of the smallest DVC resorts, I do worry about not being able to get a room at my home resort. I have become an "obsessive DVC vacation planner". The good news is...it's makes me really happy to obsessively plan vacations...I think it actually fills an "OCD void" in my life, and keeps me from obsessing about other, less pleasant things.

Maybe you are already a member, and my words are of no help to you. I was not trying to get you to not be upset or worry, I really meant my statements as a caution that, if you haven't purchased DVC, you really might want to think about how much this lack of control over access to your home resort would bother you. I know some members have been really bothered by this...enough so that they sold their points, and others take it all with a grain of salt. It bothers me a bit....but, that's why I have become an obsessive planner!! I have had difficulty getting into BCV in the past, but I also just made a ressie there for March....that's only 4 months out!! I was pretty excited about that.

Seriously, people seem to be getting into pretty much whatever resort they want if they are diligent about calling early, and/or utilizing the waitlist. But, I totally understand the strangely compelling desire to "protect" your home resort . It's a completely WEIRD phenomenon....but, the urge can sometimes be SOOOO strong!! Many of us who love our home resort...dearly LOVE our home resort...it is a wonderful feeling.

I would just like every DVC owner to be happy with their purchase, and I just wanted to help clarify the way the system works, so that you might not regret your purchase later. However, you know yourself much better than I do....if you think DVC is right for you, who am I to question that?

I don't think DVC will change their system much in the future, except to maybe make it easier to trade to other resorts (I heard a rumor from a DVC employ about a year ago that DVC was thinking of changing the 11/7 window to an 11/9 window). They do have complete control over this...it does seem to me that the owners maybe should have a little more.

I hope you are thrilled with whatever you decide!!! Good luck with your purchase,



Beca

 

[dvc-NE]

Since my home priority question has turned into a this place is superior or this place is inferior discussion, has anyone realized that some resorts offer massages? Even though you may have to take out a small loan to get one, put another check mark in the SSR column. I suppose you could also use some serious points and get one at the Grand Floridian. P.S. By the way, tjkraz,
you offer a great deal of logic here, Thanks!! :thewave:

 

[Dean]

Poly Garden View - Value Season: $304
Grand Floridian Garden View - Value Season: $349
Contemporary Garden Wing Standard View - Value Season: $244

All three resorts in the Deluxe class.
All three resorts on the monorail line.
All three resorts with identical distance from and transportation to the theme parks.

They may all be deluxe but they are certainly not all the same level of deluxe resort and I think that is the problem some have with this discussion. The idea that one's favorite resort may be less deluxe in some people's eyes, is not an affront to that resort or those that prefer it. I prefer OKW but in many ways it's more like a moderate from the standpoint of resort amenities and location, though not from a room standpoint. Same for SSR in some ways.

Generally discussing these issues and not directed to tjkraz. There are many factors to being deluxe including location, room size, resort amenities (restaurant, spa, convention, pool, etc), decor, upkeep, service and many others. To an individual the only thing that matters is what's important to them. But to a general discussion comparing resorts, you have to use all available parameters to be intellectually honest. And you truly should keep in mind industry standards. DVC resorts are difficult to compare to hotels because the luxury of space, a kitchen and W/D and the like is simply different. But looking at this form a hotel standpoint, Disney, even DVC and many other publications divide the resorts up listed in the order from more deluxe to less deluxe and grouped accordingly:

• GF
• Poly, YC/BC, BW, Cont Tower
• WL, AKL, CR garden wings.

I realize one could break every location down into room types but I only divided up the CR because DVC and Disney do. Of course one could nit pick this and that taking the things one person likes and ignoring the things that don't matter to that person and maybe come up with a different list. I frankly don't particularly like the GF and I don't think anyone could argue against it being the most deluxe of the Disney hotels. And accordingly, the fact that one person really likes or prefers a specific resort or it's theme has no meaning.

 

[Beca]

Since my home priority question has turned into a this place is superior or this place is inferior discussion, has anyone realized that some resorts offer massages? Even though you may have to take out a small loan to get one, put another check mark in the SSR column.

Well, I guess you could also mark that category off for BCV, too. You can get a massage at the Ship Shape Health Club as well (I think the full name actually is "Ship Shape Health Club and Spa"). I don't think the spa is as grand as the one at SSR, but the services are available.



Beca

 

[jade1]

A few posts here have eluded to the possibility that DVC reserves the right to allow us (at least in part) to only book at home resorts in the future. That seems to go against the flexible nature of DVC. Is there some fine print I missed or is the glass just half empty for some? Thanks Matt

LET ME BE THE FIRST TO SAY THIS WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

Having (BCV/VWL and soon CRV) readily available would be would be ideal for us. Also wear on these resorts would be less so the condition when we get there would be much better and take less maintenance (lower dues).

If we all love our home resorts so much, lets stand up and shout it out. Voting this in would be the ultimate proof. One big vote YES from us.

 

[TDC Nala]

Having (BCV/VWL and soon CRV) readily available would be would be ideal for us. Also wear on these resorts would be less so the condition when we get there would be much better and take less maintenance (lower dues).

How wonderful for you seeing as you have two, maybe soon to be three, home resorts. Possibly one of them would be readily available when it came time for you to book. If this came to pass, I would not be able to make any last minute reservations at any time when BCV (one of the smaller DVC resorts, of course) was already full. The resorts have already taken away the last minute discount option for annual passholders. I don't want the option of booking last minute with my points taken from me.

 

[jade1]

How wonderful for you seeing as you have two, maybe soon to be three, home resorts. Possibly one of them would be readily available when it came time for you to book. If this came to pass, I would not be able to make any last minute reservations at any time when BCV (one of the smaller DVC resorts, of course) was already full. The resorts have already taken away the last minute discount option for annual passholders. I don't want the option of booking last minute with my points taken from me.

Yep, and to vote this in, I will take my chances and plan ahead. If I was to bank my points and then wait until the last week of my use year to finally call and use them-I deserve to lose them. Otherwise I have no reason to believe BCV/VWL would be nearly full except peak season weeks so summer months and winter months would be very available since nobody else could reserve there.

 

[pmcpmc]

doing this as it would reduce the interest for any body new.
This ability is one of Dvc's strenghts

 

[TDC Nala]

If I was to bank my points and then wait until the last week of my use year to finally call and use them-I deserve to lose them.

I don't book late because the points are going to expire. I keep very good track of my points. I do long-planned trips, but I also tend to go for weekends when there is a good flight price out, and some of my trips are not planned far in advance. I like having the option available. I also like the opportunity to save points by booking at OKW or SSR, that means I can use more points for more weekends. Sorry if OKW or SSR owners consider this BCV owner an intruder who is taking up their rooms and increasing their dues. DVC gave me the option and it's part of the reason I bought.

I realize I am outside of the usual demographic for DVC owners, many of whom would love any perceived opportunity to have more guaranteed availability at their home resort in very busy times.

 

[tjkraz]

I realize I am outside of the usual demographic for DVC owners, many of whom would love any perceived opportunity to have more guaranteed availability at their home resort in very busy times.

Many may disagree with me, but I think this is the biggest misconception out there. In nearly 15 years of selling vacation points, it's rare that DVC has had more than one on-site option available for sale at a time. I personally believe that a LARGE majority of owners (90% or more) bought their initial points at a given resort simply because it's what DVC was offering at the time.

Whether that resort ended up being their favorite or not is a separate issue. And certainly there are people who chose to buy resale to get a specific resort, and others who may have later added-on at a resort they stayed at and decided they liked enough to buy.

But I don't really believe that most people went into DVC taking the firm stance "that is the ONE resort that I like and I wouldn't be buying if it wasn't available." Most people buy just to get into the system, and only after a half-dozen trips can really make an educated judgement as to which is their favorite.