Does DVC reserve the right to allow booking only at home resorts?

[MakiraMarlena]

wrong post

 

[Dean]

Many may disagree with me, but I think this is the biggest misconception out there. In nearly 15 years of selling vacation points, it's rare that DVC has had more than one on-site option available for sale at a time. I personally believe that a LARGE majority of owners (90% or more) bought their initial points at a given resort simply because it's what DVC was offering at the time.

I don't think that is an accurate representation. Initially there was OKW for about 3 years alone. Then VB, HH and BWV in rapid order. All 4 were available for a significant time and even after OKW and BWV were "sold out" they had points for a year for members then had the extra points from the sales center conversions from both resorts a couple of years later. VWL was announced and building by around the time BWV and the extra OKW points were not available. BCV was announced and building by the time VWL was "sold out" but then DVC went back and opened up additional sales at VWL into around the time BCV points were for sale. ignoring those first 3 years or so when OKW was the only option, there has never been another time in DVC's history when at least 2 resorts were either selling or formally announced and would be selling with a year or so. And this is the first time in DVC's history when there was only the option of a non Destination resort available or announced since there were resort choices.

Thus of the 14 years DVC has been selling, this is the only time when a prospective member had multiple resorts on the books but only one resort to chose from to buy either now or within a few months out. And it is a resort that many consider less desirable than BCV, BWV and VWL.

 

[tjkraz]

Thus of the 14 years DVC has been selling, this is the only time when a prospective member had multiple resorts on the books but only one resort to chose from to buy either now or within a few months out. And it is a resort that many consider less desirable than BCV, BWV and VWL.

Note I did say "on site" resorts. I was aware of significant overlap between HHI and VB. At the very least, you've got three years of only OKW and the last two years of only SSR. Before SSR, I know BCV was the only resort being offered to the general public for a period of time. I suspect there are other pockets of time in which DVC was only publicly marketing one on-site resort, excluding the 'current members-only' offerings.

Nevertheless, even those who were able to choose between, say, VWL and BCV only had access to points at two of the five on-site locations. They weren't offered OKW or BWV points, and SSR was not available at that time.

My point is simply that there was never a point in time when DVC was able to say "here are the five options available at Walt Disney World--take your pick." Home resort is more of a function of time and place than conscious choice.

The fact that we all know DVC sells the program as a whole ("buy here, stay anywhere") also contributes to the situation. In the face of getting 12 additional years, why would a relatively ignorant buyer even consider getting points at OKW or BWV?

I'm not even entering into a debate of which resort is more popular / better / hard to get into. I just opining that only the most educated of first-time buyers would:

1) Know about the ability / significance of getting a specific Home resort on the resale market,
2) Know about the ability to buy points at "sold out" resorts from DVC, and
3) Know enough to really determine their favorite resort at the time of purchase.

 

[BCV23]

We're certainly owners who waited for our resort.

We did look at OKW when it was just known as DVC. Although we found it attractive, we didn't buy. One main reason was that we would have needed to finance. Anyway by the time financing wasn't an issue, we decided to wait for a property (besides OKW) that really appealed to us. We waited through HH, VB (tried to talk him into that one), BWV and VWL. BCV was announced, we researched it as best we could in person and on the boards and bought the day it opened for sales.

I imagine there are many like us who bought where they wanted to stay. That was the mantra on this board in those days and I think it remains excellent advice.

Different things matter to all of us. The very things that appeal to us about BCV might drive a SSR owner nuts. Enjoy your SSR.

 

[BCV23]

A side issue that I wanted to comment on. The transportation at the MK monorail resorts is not equal. Only the Polynesian enjoys quick and easy access to the Epcot monrail via the short path. The walk from the edge of the Polynesian is much shorter than that from BCV to IG. It is also easy to catch a bus to the TTC from MGM and AK. Those buses run every 20 minutes and park buses don't necessarily run that often to/from those resorts.

 

[Dean]

My point is simply that there was never a point in time when DVC was able to say "here are the five options available at Walt Disney World--take your pick." Home resort is more of a function of time and place than conscious choice.

I guess I look at it the other way. I'd throw out the first couple of years because those owners didn't expect anything else, at least not until something else was announced or available. And there have always been owners that bought X and wanted Y, even those that bought BCV or VWL. And since there was the promise of more than one resort, there has always been points available or soon to be available at a "destination resort", until the last couple of years.

But SSR and the current situation is different for a number of reasons. The BCV, VWL and BWV locations are more desirable to the masses. SSR is the only resort and only formally planned resort at this time and may indeed be the last resort in the DVC arsenal. SSR has a later expiration date which is a draw to many. That will change if DVC announces CR or AKL or DL, it will be more of the same if EP does happen.

 

[TDC Nala]

I imagine there are many like us who bought where they wanted to stay. That was the mantra on this board in those days and I think it remains excellent advice.

It's excellent advice because if you want to stay there during peak times, you have a much better chance with the 11 month window. I never considered that advice to mean "buy where you want to stay every time you go to WDW."

I see there are a number of posters worried that the sheer size of SSR, coupled with the perception that many, if not most, SSR buyers purchased their stake in SSR as a "doorway" to the "more desirable" resorts, believe that access to their "desirable" home resorts will be severely restricted after the 7 month booking window due to the influx of SSR owners trying to book closer to the theme parks.

If that happens (has it? does it happen with OKW?) it'll really only matter to me during Food and Wine Festival and I usually book that at 11 months since I know how popular it is. I've sort of evolved into someone who uses WDW as a weekend retreat at short notice. Maybe that isn't what DVC is intended for, but Disney's decided to make it impossible for annual passholders to get room discounts for last minute bookings. Right now for most of my trips I don't care where I stay as long as I get in.

If it ever ends up that I can only book BCV, and it's full whenever I try to book it, there might be some BCV points for sale, heads up.

 

[BCV23]

It's excellent advice because if you want to stay there during peak times, you have a much better chance with the 11 month window. I never considered that advice to mean "buy where you want to stay every time you go to WDW."

To me it means buy where you are as certain as possible you will always be happy to stay when at a DVC property. Not that you have to stay there but that if booking other properties won't work, you'll be happy at your home.

 

[tjkraz]

SSR is the only resort and only formally planned resort at this time and may indeed be the last resort in the DVC arsenal.

So, you're still sticking with that one, eh?

That will change if DVC announces CR or AKL or DL, it will be more of the same if EP does happen.

I agree. And even though I've waffled on this point over time, I think it's getting harder and harder to ignore the CR rumors. Combine the fact that the North wing is sitting out there with no announced plans and the constant stream of DVC CM rumors (Disney reads these boards--wouldn't they squash the rabid CR talk at this point if there was nothing to it? Maybe--but maybe not.), and I think it's only a matter of time before the CR is announced.

That will do a lot to address this "problem"...at least until they follow it up with EP.

 

[Dean]

SThat will do a lot to address this "problem"...at least until they follow it up with EP.

Only to a degree unless it were a LOT larger than BCV, say in the BWV size of almost 400 units. If announced, it would give potential members and current members a choice. However, given the size of SSR combined with OKW, VB and HH owners; it would certainly not change the specifics of this discussion related to competition at the 7 month window.

To be clear for those that haven't seen me post this before, to me, this is simply a discussion of facts, expectations and probabilities. I bought the resorts I prefer and will stay at those most trips. And since I plan ahead, I don't care if DVC shortens or lengthens the home resort priority.

 

[tjkraz]

To be clear for those that haven't seen me post this before, to me, this is simply a discussion of facts, expectations and probabilities. I bought the resorts I prefer and will stay at those most trips. And since I plan ahead, I don't care if DVC shortens or lengthens the home resort priority.

Ditto (for the most part.)

We only own at SSR at this point, although I do have upcoming stays booked at both SSR and BWV. Unless we choose to add on at BWV (or any other resort), I'll always view such bookings as reservations-of-opportunity. I'd be perfectly content spending the next 49 years at SSR, but will continue operating within the established guidelines...whatever they may be.

But, regardless of what resorts are being constructed now or in the future, I think people are kidding themselves if they think the booking windows will change anytime soon.

 

[dvc-NE]

On my next trip to SSR very shortly, I'm starting to think what I will be doing on a particular Wednesay. I'll probably be grabbing my clubs and WALKING to the Lake Buena Vista Golf Pro Shop before I do 18 holes. My wife, son, and in laws hopefully can wrangle up some transportation to get to the parks. After golf, I might be hungry, so I'll try hard to see if I can find somewhere to eat. We will be attending the Cirque du Soleil at 6 pm. We will probably WALK. After the show, we can spend time if we want at DTD then WALK
"home". Matt

 

[Sammie]

So, you're still sticking with that one, eh?



I agree. And even though I've waffled on this point over time, I think it's getting harder and harder to ignore the CR rumors. Combine the fact that the North wing is sitting out there with no announced plans and the constant stream of DVC CM rumors (Disney reads these boards--wouldn't they squash the rabid CR talk at this point if there was nothing to it? Maybe--but maybe not.), and I think it's only a matter of time before the CR is announced.

That will do a lot to address this "problem"...at least until they follow it up with EP.

I am willing to say it is definitely only a matter of time before CR is announced and that other addon DVC resorts will happen.

 

[thelobstershanty]

But I don't really believe that most people went into DVC taking the firm stance "that is the ONE resort that I like and I wouldn't be buying if it wasn't available." Most people buy just to get into the system, and only after a half-dozen trips can really make an educated judgement as to which is their favorite.

I don't know about that. I remember when plans for BWV were first announced, OKW was also available for sale. Many people waited to become DVC members until BWV opened. Same thing happened when VWL and BCV were announced.

 

[cobbler]

On my next trip to SSR very shortly, I'm starting to think what I will be doing on a particular Wednesay. I'll probably be grabbing my clubs and WALKING to the Lake Buena Vista Golf Pro Shop before I do 18 holes. My wife, son, and in laws hopefully can wrangle up some transportation to get to the parks. After golf, I might be hungry, so I'll try hard to see if I can find somewhere to eat. We will be attending the Cirque du Soleil at 6 pm. We will probably WALK. After the show, we can spend time if we want at DTD then WALK
"home". Matt

That's right!!! I hope you don't have to try to hard to get something to eat. Wouldn't want you to starve with the lack of restaurants around.

 

[Cinderella]

It seems to me that each resort has a different advantage - for many it's location. OKW has the advantage of relaxing - more homey atmosphere, and low points per night, and Grand Villas for relatively low point cost. I haven't visited SSR yet, but I find it strange that some people feel there is no home resort advantage there - maybe i am missing something. It has a full service spa, it's on a golf course and close to Downtown Disney. Also, if the Pleasure Island rumours are true, you can bet that Disney won't be demolishing it to replace it with something inferior.

It could indeed be possible that it will be more difficult to book at the seven month window at other resorts, due to SSR being a larger resort. But, it may also be possible that once Disney builds more DVC II's such as the rumoured Contemp (I dread to think what price per point will be there), they could actually seperate the two, and only allow DVC II to swap with DVC II and vice versa.

I won't be visiting SSR until mid month - but if I like it, I will be adding. To me, an on site spa is a major advantage, and something I always look for when I am booking non-dvc accommodations.

 

[dvc-NE]

The bottom line is that any DVC member can stay at SSR at any time while SSR owners will be subject to some limitations (depending on time of year) at any of the other resorts. By most accounts, this problem is anticipated to get worse over time. There simply is no "home court advantage" at SSR. Perhaps they will eventually give you a preferred view booking advantage? Also keep in mind that the value of the 12 extra years in current years dollars is about equal to one years banked points - you could make a case that a DVCI contract resale with full banked 2004 points offsets this SSR benefit. However, they seem to sell lots of contracts based on this marketing. I have nothing against SSR but it will always suffer in terms of resale value (and rental value) due to this.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if DVC allowed Saratoga owners the ability to book say 35% of their points at any resort using an 11 month window. This would offset the lack of "home court advantage " that we currently enjoy. DVC probably wouldn't do something like that, but if it became a big issue maybe Saratoga owners could get a different booking window, say 11/8 perhaps. I do agree with tjkraz that CR would help out quite a bit, especially if 400 to 500 rooms were available.

 

[jade1]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if DVC allowed Saratoga owners the ability to book say 35% of their points at any resort using an 11 month window. This would offset the lack of "home court advantage " that we currently enjoy. DVC probably wouldn't do something like that, but if it became a big issue maybe Saratoga owners could get a different booking window, say 11/8 perhaps. I do agree with tjkraz that CR would help out quite a bit, especially if 400 to 500 rooms were available.

It wouldnt hurt your feelings if you own at SSR and all of a sudden 35% of you points could book BCV at 11 months (the same as a BCV owner)? Really-most SSR owners would be devasted by this news. I would imagine BCV owners (who are guaranteed a 1 month booking advantage at a minimum) may not appreciate it though.

 

[crisi]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if DVC allowed Saratoga owners the ability to book say 35% of their points at any resort using an 11 month window. This would offset the lack of "home court advantage " that we currently enjoy. DVC probably wouldn't do something like that, but if it became a big issue maybe Saratoga owners could get a different booking window, say 11/8 perhaps. I do agree with tjkraz that CR would help out quite a bit, especially if 400 to 500 rooms were available.

I'll trade you a different booking window if you give me some of your additional 12 years. SSR owners DO have an advantage. A big one. You'll just need to wait thirty some years before you can laugh at the rest of us.

 

[dvc-NE]

I would imagine BCV owners (who are guaranteed a 1 month booking advantage at a minimum) may not appreciate it though.

I don't follow. Why would someone whose home resort is
BCV have only a one month booking advantage? I always thought it was four months. By an 11/8 window I meant 11 months at home resort and 8 months at the others. Matt