Do you all ever get jealous of non-savers?

[mom2bandp]

Definitely not jealous! We are savers/non-credit card users now, but it hasn't always been that way. A year after we married my husband changed jobs (what we thought would be for the better, but definitely wasn't) and we spent the next 4 years struggling and living for a large part off credit cards. Combine that with 2 surgeries (me), and an ongoing medical condition (dh) that required yearly MRI's and $300 a month medication, and it wasn't a pretty picture. But we also made poor choices that we could have avoided, like charging vacations, clothing, and "nick-nacks" we couldn't really afford. DH got a really good job, and we spent the following 7 years digging out from that debt load. We will pay off our mortgage and home equity loan in around 2 more years, and we only have 1 car loan which we will pay off next year. We bought a used popup camper (cash) which we now take our Disney vacations in (at Ft. Wilderness), and we usually go around 3-4 times a year. We don't go in the parks every time, but just go sometimes to enjoy the campground and atmosphere. We eat most of our meals at the camper, so while we do vacation fairly often, it's relatively inexpensive and totally paid for with cash. We are planning on upgrading our camper later this year, but our plan is to save and pay for one camper, sell it and then keep on upgrading til we have exactly what we want. We will not finance it, even though we could. We keep a credit card for emergencies only, and we STICK TO IT! We've learned what happens when you don't. We now save monthly, and I'm a SAHM who loves to bargain shop. We should be completely debt free in around 2 years, and that feels so good! Would I trade that for our friend's carefree spending and debt...having been there and done that, no way!!!!

 

[disneysteve]

Originally posted by naominpaul
I've recently found myself doing the "really wish I would have gone to medical school

Not sure what you mean by that. If you are trying to get out of debt, why would you want to take on a new 6-figure debt? I graduated from med school with over $100,000 in debt with a 25+ year repayment schedule. I've been out of school for 14 years and will make my final loan payment within the next year only because I've worked hard to make substantial extra payments each month. I would be in far better shape financially had I chosen a different career path.

If you were implying that doctors make a lot of money, forget that. It is an urban legend.

crisi - Your numbers add up to 55% of income going to savings. If that's accurate, you definitely get the "best saver" award.

 

[crisi]

Well, we have two pretty good incomes and live a relatively modest lifestyle. Instead of a million dollar house, we have a $300,000 one that has a much smaller mortgage. Instead of BMWs, I drive a Jetta, my husband a Passat that is a few years old. It isn't the same as a ten year old junker we are keeping going with care and duct tape, but it isn't two $50,000 cars replaced every few years either. I buy my clothes at Kohl's or Christopher and Banks on sale - not the same as picking up the bargains at the consignment shop, but it isn't the Nordstrom/Bloomingdales shopping of my income. I do my own nails, color my own hair from a box, pluck my own brows, and get a $12 haircut. (I do treat myself to a spa day once or twice a year). Thus, we have a lot of money to put away.

We could live off either income without a change in lifestyle, but both work. While I admire SAHPs, I wouldn't be a good one - and I have security issues around money - if either one of us gets laid off, we just scale back a little and stop saving quite so much. I'd need to clip a LOT of coupons to replace my income....more coupons than I spend.

I start school this year. In two or three years the house will be paid for the kids out of expensive all day daycare and I'll switch careers into one that doesn't pay as much, but I hope will be more rewarding.

 

[disneysteve]

crisi - That's fantastic! A lot of folks could learn a lesson or two from your post and they way you and your DH manage your money. You are living well below your means and enjoying the benefits that come with that.

 

[StephMK]

What a great thread, I just read all 5 pages. Perfect timing for us, we almost fell into the keeping up w/the County mindset, actually. We have 3 kids & live in a very nice but cozy townhouse. I worked FT down to PT & down to SAHM w/the third child last fall.

Lately, it was so tempting to get a PT job & some creative financing to buy a SFH in the lowest price range. After some serious soul searching, DH & I decided to postpone the search & continue our current less stressful lifestyle. Yes, the girls have to share a room a few more years but we do ok, can go on outings & some extras due to generous parents. This outweighed the stress & scheduling nightmares of tying ourselves down to a mtg the bankers say we can afford but not truly realistic w/o many lifestyle changes.

We are reformed in debt spenders so we do sometimes struggle to stay in line. But threads like this remind me that not everyone can/does spend freely & there are benefits to living on less than the max possible.

And I second the recommendation of freecycling!! I've been a member for about a month & it's fantastic. There is a big bonus to clearing out space & helping someone in the process.

 

[MinnieGi]

What a great thread!! It was nice to read about so many others who are also working hard toward their financial goals. The fact that you have financial plans, budgets, goals says alot. Too many people I know seem to not have any plan and really do not know where there money goes and have hardly any saved for the future.

DH and I have actually become better savers and more financially educated since I became a SAHM. We now look back on our years of when we both worked and spent lots as such wasted potential investing income. Well four years ago DD arrived and the starting of a family really made us look into the future and shape what we wanted that future to look like. Although we always had 401K's and 403B's set up we did not invest any additional money. For the last four years we have saved 20 - 25% of DH's salary in investments for retirement, college fund, and after tax stocks and mutual funds. We are proud of what we have accomplished but still feel like we need to save more. Which is why it sometimes really boggles our minds when friends comment on not maxing out their 401K's or savings for their kids college and instead buying a new car, house, boat, etc. These are people who make a decent salary and are just choosing to spend a big portion of that salary and not save it.

The OP asked about jealousy in seeing other people spend - and I have to admit I do at times get jealous. But I quickly come to my senses and remember our monetary goals and know for us we are doing the right thing. But it is hard not to be a little envious. We live on a street filled with new BMW's, MB's, Lexus', Audi's etc. We by far have the oldest cars and have had the same ones since we moved in four years ago. Everybody else has bought at least one new car and most two since we moved in! Our neighborhood is newly built and many of my neighbors had their homes instantly filled with fine furnishings. Ours has taken four years to fill - one room at a time - cash only.

Being a SAHM has really helped me seek out bargains at the mall. I always buy a season ahead for DD. I shop Strawbridges, Macys, L& T, and DS and find adorable outfits for fractions of the original price. And then after DD has outgrown them I sell these clothes at my mom's group and church consignment sales. We still eat out, but not as frequently as we used to when we both worked, which has also benefitted health wise too. We have learned to cut out the extras we don't really need or did not use much.

Several of you mentioned how much you enjoyed saving and finding bargains and I think that is a real key point. DH and I both do too. I personally get a real kick out of knowing I own a piece of such and such company through my stock holdings. We like to look over our portfolio and discuss what changes if any need to be made. We follow our mutual funds and stocks and keep abreast of business and economy issues. Ten years ago when we were just out of college and getting married we would have laughed at the idea that we would ENJOY such monetary issues!! Neither one of us was even a business major.

Now we do though have a weakness for WDW and vacations themselves. But they are paid for with cash. We do own DVC and love the one bedroom villas. We also love giving our DD experiences and traveling to WDW is wonderful. She is already a little tour guide for WDW. She is sooo looking forward to bringing her new DS and showing him around in Feb. She has been to WDW five times and we also have taken DD to the beach (Lewes, DE & Avalon, NJ) in the summer, Rocky Mtn. National Park for a week, NYC for a week, DC for a week.

Okay, I'm starting to write a whole article...I'll quit for now. But just wanted to add, best wishes to all of you! You sound like you all are well on your way toward your financial goals!

 

[zurgswife]

Nope!!!!

Because of one of the minimal savers.....I've got memories that I wouldn't trade for any amount of dollars in the world.....We don't live high on the hog but we do live slightly above our income every now and again and it always works out (meaning all the bills get paid)....

so, I'm glad you guys enjoy saving for everything and living debit free...but it's not for me....I like my life just as it is.....

 

[newholiday]

I like to save up ahead of time
Id be too stressed to spend the money while at Disney/FL if I had to worry about the bills when we returned

 

[ChrizJen]

I have only a few things to add to this discussion...
First, let me say that we save just as much as the next person. We do without certain little things (like fancy clothes and cars) so that we can have certain other things (like Disney vactaions!). That being said, we still do have some credit card debt. Circumstances beyond our control made it so we had no other option.

For those of you who "value" putting your money away and saving it for later: good for you. You have your values and you stick to them. But don't speak badly of those who don't share that value. Some people "value" enjoying the good things in life while they're here to enjoy them. Live today like there is no tomorrow, because you just never know what might happen.
If I got smashed by a bus tomorrow, would I say,
"Gosh, I really wish I would have sacrificed more so I could have put more money away."?
Or would I say,
"Gosh, I really wish I would have enjoyed life more while I lived it."?

Who knows what tomorrow brings? No one but God.

I agree with a lot of you that people should not live so far out of their means that they have to file bankruptcy. (and keep in mind that some have to file bankruptcy for reasons that are beyond their control)

But I also think that people should not have to deprive themselve of the joys in life just so they can "save up" for something that may not even come. (besides, retirement is what 401K is for)

These are just my opinions...for what they're worth.

 

[barbeml]

I am a great believer in balance! We save and we spend, we just don't spend more than we are willing to pay off every month.

Funny thing about judging others for over-spending, we get judged (by less financially stable friends) for not spending enough! They think we are rich (far from it) and should drive fancier cars. We are generous with friends and family, and no one would call us cheap, they just think we should buy a McMansion and a BMW or two. (NO THANKS!!)

It is also important to know why you want the things you want. If you truly desire an item, an experience or some other thing that will enhance life for you and/or loved ones, you make your decision based on that. I see too many people basing spending on what others have or will think of them. I know 3 sisters all on the brink of financial ruin because they are playing that spending competition game. They can't even enjoy what they have, because the eye is always on what the other sisters are getting.

Frankly, I am getting tired of "stuff." It becomes a burden after a while, and as I get older I want a lower maintenance life. I've been giving lots of stuff away for the past few years and it makes me happy!

Barbe

 

[MrsPete]

Sure, it's human nature to be a bit jealous sometimes. Perhaps a friend will get a new van, and I'll think, "Wow, I would enjoy all that space and that sunroof". But it's a passing thought -- not something that I seriously want for myself. I know that I have everything I NEED (and quite a few things that I want).

Keep in mind too the old saying "All that glitters is not gold". I know that I've been surprised a number of times by friends whom I thought "had it all" saying that they couldn't afford something pretty basic, or admitting that they had to lease a car instead of buying, etc. Lots of people are living beyond their means -- and that's nothing to be jealous of!


I agree with quite a few comments that have been made on this thread:

It is quite possible to live debt-free. I'm not 40, and I live in a paid-for house, drive paid-for cars, and have no credit card debt. How? Simple: We started out right. We never accumulated debt, though it wasn't easy in the beginning. We scrimped and saved while the kids were toddlers; now we have the disposable income to travel and do things with children who are a great age to enjoy it and remember it.

Saving for retirement should be a priority. If you start young, you don't have to sacrafice huge amounts each month to build up a comfortable amount over the years.

Saving for our children's educations is also a priority for us. I worked my way through college, and it wasn't easy -- today it's even tougher. I expect my daughters to work during college and pay a portion of their expenses, but I will make sure they can graduate without student loans. I know that I was very glad to start my "real life" with a "blank slate" instead of debt.

Walmart and Target are not really budget places. You can buy cheap stuff, but it won't last. Sometimes that's okay: perhaps you want a trendy item that you know you'll only want one season -- fine, but realize what you're getting. If you're shopping for something that's going to want to keep a while (i.e., khaki pants or bookcases), buy the best. It's much cheaper in the long run.

"Stuff" costs you in many ways: you have to pay for it, you have to maintain it, store it, clean it . . . I find that the older I get, the more minimialistic I become. I have a few soft-spots, but by and large I'm getting rid of more stuff than I'm buying these days.

As for being a SAHM, that can be a great choice for a family; however, you have to consider the long-term too. Let's say you plan to stay out of the work force for 10 years while your 2-3 children are young, then you expect to find a job again. Unless your situation is unusual, you're going to be back at entry-level again -- and you'll be there at an age when your children's needs/wants will be growing. And you'll lose years of retirement benefits and compounded interest. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be a SAHM, I'm just saying that you should really look at the total financial cost -- not just the monthly paycheck.


Finally, the bottom line of jealousy: It's very easy to neglect what you already have. Count your blessings!

 

[DiznEeyore]

Originally posted by MrsPete
As for being a SAHM, that can be a great choice for a family; however, you have to consider the long-term too. Let's say you plan to stay out of the work force for 10 years while your 2-3 children are young, then you expect to find a job again. Unless your situation is unusual, you're going to be back at entry-level again -- and you'll be there at an age when your children's needs/wants will be growing. And you'll lose years of retirement benefits and compounded interest. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be a SAHM, I'm just saying that you should really look at the total financial cost -- not just the monthly paycheck.

Not to be argumentative, but this last statement really gets my hackles up.

The cost you need to look at is not your "future financial cost" -- it's the cost to your children if you abandon them to daycare every day. I say this as both a mother and a former daycare employee (certified in Early Childhood Education). I worked in them for years (excellent ones, too, where we truly cared for and about the children) and after seeing what those little ones go through having to be away from home and parents for sometimes 11 hours a day convinced me NO AMOUNT OF MONEY would make me leave my child to be raised by others just so I could be "employable" later on.

I had a cushy part-time job after my ds was born (my dmom watched him) as the executive assistant to the owner of a nationwide daycare chain. He wanted me to work full-time; offered me FREE INFANT CHILDCARE (worth $200 per week) if I'd do it, but everytime I thought about leaving my baby, I cried my eyes out. I quit that job and stayed home with my son, doing various part-time jobs through the years and though we've had financial struggles, have never regretted it. No amount of money can replace time spent raising your children.

I know this isn't always a popular viewpoint, but I believe that's because it's the truth, and that can be hard to hear.

 

[eeyore kelly]

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be a SAHM, I'm just saying that you should really look at the total financial cost -- not just the monthly paycheck.

How insulting!!!!!

I personally think that being a SAHM needs to be weighed by more than just "financial cost." Some Moms work because they have to, and some moms work because they want to. Some Moms are SAHMs because they look at the "total" picture and not just the "total financial cost" or the "monthly paycheck" and decide that's what is best for their family. Each has to make their own decision. Being a SAHM is a personal choice, and I based my decision on much more than the "total financial cost " or the "monthly paycheck."

To repeat myself:
How insulting!!!!!

 

[diznee25]

I totally agree with MrsPete about this sentence:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm not saying that you shouldn't be a SAHM, I'm just saying that you should really look at the total financial cost -- not just the monthly paycheck."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those of you who were automatically insulted by this sentence and missed what was trying to be said, just listen for a second.

The choice to be a SAHM should be based on the child's needs, short term and long term. And should be based on the mother's need as well. Which was where MrsPete was going with this subject. Will you be able to finanically support your children through college, weddings, etc? Some parents help children with down payments their first cars and house, if you plan on this can you afford it?How about retirement for husband and wife? Can you have all these things with just the husband working?

Total finanical cost through out the childs life should be one of the many factors involved when making the decision to be a SAHM. Some of you mentioned another factor, not wanting to leave your child at daycare. These are all great factors to take into account!

 

[Kristi1357]

Originally posted by diznee25
The choice to be a SAHM should be based on the child's needs, short term and long term. And should be based on the mother's need as well. Which was where MrsPete was going with this subject. Will you be able to finanically support your children through college, weddings, etc? Some parents help children with down payments their first cars and house, if you plan on this can you afford it?How about retirement for husband and wife? Can you have all these things with just the husband working?

Total finanical cost through out the childs life should be one of the many factors involved when making the decision to be a SAHM. Some of you mentioned another factor, not wanting to leave your child at daycare. These are all great factors to take into account! [/B]

There is no law saying you are financially responsible for your child's college education, wedding, cars, etc. That said, I would like to provide that for my son. My Mom stayed home with my sister and I until we were in school. She took 2 years off from work when I was 10 to go to college full time. My Dad worked (and still does) in a factory and makes very little money for the hard work he does. But you know what? With as little as they had money-wise while I grew up - they paid off their house around the time they were 45, they paid 100% of my private college tuition, they helped with weddings and many other things for my sister & I. They also have quite the stock portfolio growing, as well as other retirement investments. My Mom did not *have* to work while we were little to afford these things. They simply didn't spend money frivolously. And we didn't feel deprived either. We had nice vacations every year since that was important to my Dad since they never had any trips when he grew up.

I guess I am just trying to say that the years spent being a SAHM or SAHD are not a financial waste of time. Time with your child (or children) is much more important than the extra cash & is priceless in itself. If you can afford to, I personally think it is great to be able to be with your kids while they are small. And I think if staying home is something you really want to do, you can do it in many cases (not all cases though). If there's a will, there's a way, IMO. And that doesn't mean you have to sacrafice your own financially security to stay home either.

 

[punkin]

The SAHM discussion is tootally off topic for this thread and does not belong here. I'm a SAHM, but it was my decision and I have no problem with other people making other decisions based on their own situation. I really get insulted when people talk of "abandoning children" to daycare. By choosing to work, you are not abandoning your children, you are making a choice for your family that outsiders have no right to criticize.

 

[april riddle]

I am a working mother by choice - my DH and I were very lucky to have his mother be the caretaker of our two sons when they were little. I have always been the main bread winner and benefits holder so off to work I go. Luckily I am a RN and when they were little worked all kinds of crazy schedules so that I could spend the maximum time with them. So many of my co-workers did the same thing. (I worked four straight years of weekends nights only just to be with them.) But back to the topic - I admire stay at home moms but to be honest I couldn't do it! - I can juggle a surgery schedule all day everyday but I don't like staying at home. I do volunteer at school and have been class parent to at least one of my son's classes every year for the past seven. My husband and I are at all events at school so I don't feel that my kids have missed out. If I didn't work they might have missed out on some of the cool vacations that we have taken. We also bought a pop up camper (cash) and save alot of money camping when we go on vacation. I like to spend but my dh is a saver and his new trick is to check the checking accounts online and then question what I spent the money on. Instead of having to listen to a lecture, it is easier to not spend stupidly. He is my voice of reason and I am thankful for him everyday. If it wasn't for him I would be in a mountain of debt - because of him I am not (or I should say we) We have accounts for both boys college funds and retirement accounts. (By the way Mrs Paul - I remember the lectures you gave the cruise line posters about saving - I can appreciate your ideas but I think you need to consider how you phrase things in order not to offend people)

 

[april riddle]

excuse me I meant Mrs Pete on the last post

 

[kmb34me]

we also carry absolutly no cc debt. everything we buy (such as xmas birthdays, and vacations) is with cash. That is by choice. Unfortunatly we dont save alot either, that is our down fall. I think saving for disney was a big insperation for me, I thought I couldnt save money, obviously I was wrong I saved for close to a year (thanks to ING).
When we come back we will still be doing that saving only difference is it will be for our home.

Kristen

 

[crisi]

I really admire SAHPs. And I think the decision to be one needs to me more emotional than financial. A person who cries at the thought of leaving their kids should do everything in their power to stay at home (and give thanks for being able to do so). A person with my temperment should continue to work - even if it costs a little more. I'm a great mom - eight hours a day and 16 hours a day on weekends. But I wouldn't be a great mom all day every day - me and my kids would suffer.

What I don't like is the financial equations for being a SAHP. i.e. you will save all this money on lunches out, drycleaning, workclothes, and be able to save money by couponing. I haven't drycleaned a work outfit in years. I certainly wear clothes on the weekend, and they cost as much and don't hold up as well (because I garden and paint in them) as my work clothes. There is no law forbidding me from packing a lunch from home, and I've discovered coupons work just as well Monday evening as they do Monday afternoon. Those equations always ingore the "costs" of staying at home - your employer won't buy you basic life insurance, your health care costs may go up, there will be no 401k match. If I plan on returning to work after the kids are in school, it will very likely be at a lower paying job. There is the increased risk of the working parent getting laid off and leaving you with no income. And staying at home isn't free - most SAHPs I know take their kids to McDonald's Playland on occation and register their kids for Tots Tumbling and buy far more fingerpaint and Playdoh than I've ever needed in my house.

If anyone is on the fence about it, and making the decision on a financial basis, they need to get a better picture than most of the analysis give. But - when push comes to shove - I hope most people don't make this decision by analyzing a balance sheet.