Do you all ever get jealous of non-savers?

[DiznEeyore]

Originally posted by punkin
I really get insulted when people talk of "abandoning children" to daycare. By choosing to work, you are not abandoning your children, you are making a choice for your family that outsiders have no right to criticize.

I'm truly sorry you feel "insulted" by my comments. They were not meant to insult anyone. However, I stand by them, and until you have spent years in the company of children who spend only a few waking hours a day with their parents (as I have), you will never know the emotional toll they pay.

I totally agree with Crisi that the decision to stay at home or not needs to be based on much more than your bottom line. Giving up some financial comfort to give children the emotional support they need to develop into well-adjusted human beings is a worthy sacrifice, and believe me, it's far more important than being able to pay for their wedding later on.

 

[purplebelle]

Originally posted by disneysteve
I agree. Citibank had a great billboard slogan a couple of years ago. They said, "Build a nest egg but don't forget to have some omelettes along the way."

The reality is that most people only save between 0% and 5% of their income for the future. .

NOT being part of the majority is 1/2 the reward for me.

 

[crisi]

I totally agree with Crisi that the decision to stay at home or not needs to be based on much more than your bottom line. Giving up some financial comfort to give children the emotional support they need to develop into well-adjusted human beings is a worthy sacrifice, and believe me, it's far more important than being able to pay for their wedding later on.

And, for me, I feel I can adequately give them the emotional support to be well-adjusted human beings working - being able to ensure their financial security in the short and long term is very important to me.

I don't want money set aside to pay for weddings - I do want money set aside so if something happens, me and mine will be taken care of. Earlier, the question was asked "if you died tomorrow, would you wish you left more behind." Yep. My kids and spouse would have a very hard time living without mom - I hope I leave them financially secure enough that money doesn't add to the problem. Money doesn't buy happiness, but it can buy some measure of security in an uncertain world.

I don't know anyone who is poorly adjusted simply because they didn't have a SAHP. My mother worked, I turned out fine - as did my sisters. My father's mother worked, he turned out fine. My husbands mother worked and was a single mom - he's fine. I know people who are poorly adjusted - some of them had working parents, some had stay at home parents. Some of them were poor, some of them well off. Some of them come from intact homes, some from families where their parents were divorced. Sometimes the families were dysfunctional - alcoholics or abusive - sometimes the families seem just fine. One of the most screwed up adults I know was raised middle class with a stay at home mom and married parents who seem perfectly normal (that adult happens to be my ex husband). The equation is far more complicated than "staying at home ensures success."

 

[diznee25]

I never mentined saving for your childs education, and weddings, were an obligation to the parents. If you expect your child to pay for all those things, then fine. (Let them know way ahead of time, college is very ex*****ve without the help of parents. I know, I'm in that situation.) If you want to help them pay those expenses, then make a plan so you can be a SAHM and be financially set for you childs future. Although, sometimes you can't have both. There is an option of being a SAHM for a few years, and then returning to the work force.

As a child of a SAHM, I can garuntee that role isn't needed after children start elementary school. Children go to school for 7 to 8 hours a day. Find a job for yourself to fill that time. As an adult who works, I find plently of time to do chores on the weekend. It doesn't take all week to do laundry, and clean the house.

 

[disneysteve]

Just a couple of things to add.

Not all working parents are leaving their kids alone for long periods. I know several moms who have jobs during school hours - a couple of them even work at the school their kids attend. These moms are home in the morning and they are home in the afternoon when the kids return. The kids aren't missing out on any mommy time since they are in school anyway.

As for pre-school age children, my wife is a SAHM but we still sent our daughter to pre-school because we thought it was a valuable thing to do both educationally and socially. She learned a lot more and grew emotionally a lot more there than she would have staying home with Mom all day.

 

[septbride2002]

I'm not touching the SAHM topic with a ten foot pole! LOL!

DH and I are steadily climbing out of debt. We started life off kind of rough and got into some rough spots. This year our income doubled due to me getting a much better job. And while we are paying our debt off we are also spending a bit of our money - after all we have had to do without a lot of stuff up until now.

We have been putting money consistently into our 401K plans and in 3 years have almost $30,000 already in the account. We each put 10% of our salaries into the account. We bought a house last year but I don't consider the mortgage a bad thing since it gets us a tax deduction - I also know we can make the mortgage payment whether I get a commission check or not. We are paying down credit cards and student loans - after that we will start doing additional retirement investments.

As far as children go - we will probably have them in about 5 years (currently I am only 25) once the credit cards are gone and the student loans are paid down significantly. One of us will stay home with the kids until they are 2. That is a priority for us and at that time we will go back to saving and scrimping - but for now I see no issue with enjoying the extra money that we have.

In regards to saving for Children's college funds - I watched WAY to many kids go to college and blow it because they had no responsibility. Mom and Dad were paying their way and they could do as they please. I had to pay entirely for my education and trust me when I say that I was a model student. I will help my kids out with college but I will not pay for it entirely.

~Amanda

 

[Chicago526]

I'll be a SAHM once I have kids, because quite frankly, any money I make while working would just pay for the daycare bill anway, I just don't make that much to begin with! The nice thing is that since that is what BF and I are planning, anyway, we'll have a few years to put a lot of money in the bank, so we'll have a decent head start on savings before we give up my income.

But I respect those that do work, whether by choice or circumstance. Being a SAHP isn't for everyone, and $$$ as well as the well being of the kids has to be factored in. SAHP can lessen the blow of only having one income by the fact that they aren't buying work clothes (and I do have to buy more expensive stuff for work, some of which needs dry cleaning, not everyone needs this) driving as much, etc., but it of course doesn't replace the lost income.

Bottom line, parents need to look at the whole picture and see what working vs. not working will do to the family income as well as the families emotional health. If being straped for cash all the time is putting too much stress on the parents, then maybe both working is better. But if little Johnnie is in day care 12 hours a day just so Mommy can work, I can't imagine that's very good, either. Oh, and nothing wrong with SAH Dads, either!

There is no "one" answer. Each family needs to look at it in their own way and do what's right for them, and nuts to what others think, anyway!

 

[PattiPB]

A thread can really take on a life of it's own in 6 pages, can't it?

 

[imsayin]

As far as children go - we will probably have them in about 5 years (currently I am only 25) once the credit cards are gone and the student loans are paid down significantly. One of us will stay home with the kids until they are 2. That is a priority for us and at that time we will go back to saving and scrimping - but for now I see no issue with enjoying the extra money that we have.

I am a big "planner" also. Like you, I mapped out the future - kids, working, etc. Be ready to adjust your plan as needed. I was always going to work FT when I had kids. Well, I had the kids and priorities changed. I worked FT for a while, then PT, then not at all, and now PT again. Now that I have been on both sides of the fence, I realize (IMO) that it is actually better to be home with your kids when they are older. Bonding with the baby is important, but raising your kids to have the values, manners, etc. that are important to you is a much bigger task. Anyway, I love your plan and even if it doesn't work out exactly as you lay it out, it will work out.

 

[wuv tigger]

Great thread! Interesting to see everyone's ideas. Sometimes I get jealous because I wish I did not have any money worries and could get a suite at the Grand Floridian, BMW, Housekeeper, etc., but then I count my blessings and remember my mission trips to Mexico or Jamaica and realize how truly blessed I am

On the SAHM topic I think everyone has to do what their values require. DW is a SAHM and I am very proud of that. We catch criticism from both sides, people who think she should have her own career and people who think we should homeschool our kids instead of putting them in public school. Bottom line is that if you can't be true to your own beliefs and tell everyone else to MYOB you won't get far in this world, or you will be constantly dissappointed.

What I do get upset about is people who complain that they can't stay at home, but romanticize about a past time like the 50's when you could live on one income. It is still very doable to live on one income, but you have to live a 50's lifestyle. What does this mean practically:

No cell phones, cable TV, internet, CD's, DVD's, Large Screen TVs, etc.

No Starbucks, eating out except for special occasions, trips more than 150 miles from home, etc.

1 car, 1,200 SF house w/1 bathroom, no/little airconditioning, etc.

No credit cards, designer clothes, hair treatments, etc.

You get the point. Most of the money we spend is for things that are not required to live a happy life. They enhance life, but are not required. If it is really important to you to raise your kids at home then pay the price and do it. If it is not that important then stop complaining about it.

It's all about choices. Thanks to everyone on this board who help me make better choices to pay for my Disney time. Most people think that I am crazy, but I am willing to pay the price to spend the time with my family

David

 

[disneysteve]

Great post wuv tigger!

Originally posted by wuv tigger
It is still very doable to live on one income, but you have to live a 50's lifestyle.

This is so true. People have forgotten how to distinguish "wants" from "needs." You don't NEED cable tv, cell phones, pagers, video game systems, etc. They are nice to have but you can live perfectly fine without them. Most people tend to increase their spending to meet their income. As income rises, they find more things to buy - fancier car, larger tv, faster computer, etc. And I'm not trying to say there is anything wrong with doing that, but just realize that there is a trade-off involved as far as your financial future is concerned.

Originally posted by wuv tigger
No credit cards

This I have to disagree with. Credit cards don't cost money - they save money. We save a few hundred dollars each year by using our reward cards. Our Internet access is paid for with reward points and some of our travel is as well. In the past 3 years, we've earned about 13 or 14 free nites at Marriott hotels using their rewards Visa card to make purchases that we would have made anyway. Why pay cash and get no benefit when you can charge it and reap the rewards.

 

[barbeml]

Have to agree that as long as you pay your balance off every month, rewarding credit cards are the way to go. I just applied $3,400 in free money to a new GM car purchase.

 

[septbride2002]

I notice everyone here says save for the future, save for the future. When do you get to spend it? I'm asking this as a true question - I want to know? Like I mention DH and I are young 26 and 25 and while I know we should invest in Roth IRA's and things I also don't want to live without any matrial things. Call me materialistic - but like I said it is nice to actually enjoy the money every now and then. We increase the amount we put into our 401 K's every year but I don't see us doing any outside investments for another 2 years.

In regards to keeping my plans open - I do. Although I'm pretty much sure on the kid thing - we are not ready for kids now and we have agreed to not even discuss the idea of kids until I'm 29.

~Amanda

 

[barbeml]

If you read many of these posts thoroughly, including mine, you will see a pattern of balance. Save some, spend some. Sadly, I know too many people who spend everything--including money they DON'T have--and save nothing.

 

[disneysteve]

Originally posted by septbride2002
I notice everyone here says save for the future, save for the future. When do you get to spend it? I'm asking this as a true question - I want to know?

Amanda - That's a great question. From your earlier post, it sounds as if you and your spouse are doing everything right. You are investing 10% of your pay for the future, you own your own home, and you are paying down your debt. What you spend is whatever is left after you fulfill each of those obligations. The one thing you didn't mention is an emergency fund. If you haven't already, you should work to build a cash reserve equal to several months income. This money would only be touched for an emergency - major house or car repair, unexpected medical bill, etc. A big sale at Macy's wouldn't qualify .

As barbeml said, what is important is balance. We invest between 16 and 18% of my gross income. We pay all of our bills in full on time. I make extra principal payments on my student loans. And we enjoy life with the remainder of our income. Just to give you an idea of what I mean and use travel as an example, my DD is 8. She has been to Disney World 11 times. She has been on 2 week-long cruises. She has had a US Passport since age 5 and has visited 3 foreign countries (Canada, Bahamas and Dominican Republic) and 2 US-owned islands (Puerto Rico and St. Thomas). To date she has visited 12 states.

So we don't sit around counting our pennies. We enjoy what we have while still putting money away to insure a comfortable future. It is absolutely possible to do both as long as you keep your priorities intact.

 

[MrsPete]

Goodness, some of you have awfully thin skins! I think you read half of what I said about being a SAHM and made some assumptions. My whole point: It can be a great choice for a family, but you should consider "the big picture" in making your decision -- part of that decision is financial, and that's what we were discussing in this post. Quality of parenting was not being discussed.

Is anyone going to argue that you should NOT carefully think through your decision to work or stay home, considering what's best for your individual family both today and tomorrow?

 

[septbride2002]

Thanks for answering Disneysteve - I just get the feeling sometimes that people think DH and I should be saving every penny that we have but that just doesn't seem like a whole lot of fun ;-)

I am hoping after the credit cards are paid off to make additional payments on our student loans. Currently we have about $22,000 in debt there.

~Amanda

 

[eeyore kelly]

I was taught if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

I don't have anything nice to say.

 

[disneysteve]

Amanda - I just noticed your Cruise counter. What ship? What itinerary? We recently sailed Carnival Paradise to Nassau, St. Thomas and La Romana. In March, we sail Carnival Glory to Key West, Belize, Cozumel and Progreso Yucatan.

I love cruising. Its a great way to travel and see the world.

 

[crisi]

Amanda,

Some of it gets spent now. Trips to Disney World. Toys at home. I spend out of every paycheck - clothes, food, occational dinners out, sometimes toys for the kids - and we frequently dip into our short term savings for vacations, cars, home improvements, etc.

Some of it will get spent in the short term - I'm going to move into a lower paying job in a few years - one where I can be self employed and do a little setting of my own hours (I'm going to be a CPA). That way I can be home for my kids to run them to soccer practice and such - "saving" now by paying down the house allows me to "spend" later my not needing that income to maintain the lifestyle.

The savings for college will get spent when college hits. It isn't spending for fun - but I do believe in paying for my kids education if its possible.

The savings for retirement also won't get spent for fun. Its survival money. If we are lucky, we will have enough to maybe retire early and spend a few years golfing and traveling.

And, I'm not opposed to saving enough to be able to pass some along to my children or grandchildren via trust fund or inheirtence. We inherieted some money, and it can really help when you are purchasing your first house and getting going to start "ahead of the game."