Do you all ever get jealous of non-savers?

[Taja]

Being single and sole support of myself and an elderly uncle, I have to be frugal! Unfortunately, like many others, I also was downsized and had difficulty find another position, and then it was for much less. Did a real number on my savings (and, of course, that was when the stock market really tanked, as well!), so I feel as though I'm starting over again.

I'm now a self-employed business consultant, making less than I did in a really good job, but more than I made after the IT crash. After my mortgage payment (smaller than most people I know), medical insurance is my largest single expense. I belong to a professional group that has a number of insurance programs available, which keeps the cost about 25% below what I would have to pay as an individual. I also have a car payment, as I hadn't saved enough for a new vehicle when my previous car (15 years old and 42,000 miles!) was totaled in an accident. It should be paid off in 18 to 24 months (financed it for 60 months) without penalty, as I pay additional principal when possible. CC from period of unemployment should be paid off late this year or early next year.

Things are coming along slowly, but they're getting there!

I'm paying for vacations (WDW and otherwise) by selling a bunch of stuff from the house (plan to downsize in a few years and need to get rid of it anyway) through e-Bay, yard sales (once or twice a year) and consignment shops (specialty items and art work). I also do the usual of saving coins, small bills, leftover "allowance", etc.

Sometimes I envy those who buy what they want when they want it, but I realize that I wouldn't be comfortable with that lifestyle. So I wish them well and do things my own way!


__________________
Taja

 

[punkin]

We're living paycheck to paycheck BUT we have no debt (other than the mortgage and one car payment).We also have two children in private schools and I stay home (actually, now that both are in school full day, I'm looking for a job-but nothing has come out yet). My husband took a 45% pay cut 2 years ago and we went thru most of our liquid savings. We still have retirement accounts and small college funds for the girls (I'm not too worried about college since we've been paying for private schools anyway and I'm sure I'll have a job by then. )

I live a very frugal lifestyle (second hand clothes; sales; frugal meals at home).
I figure, as long as we have no debt, I can splurge on Disney. However, in the past 2 years we haven't been able to save anything PLUS our house needs A LOT of work. My DH is complaining about going to Disney because of all our expenses so we are probably not going back this year.

 

[deltachi8]

I think the answer here is everyone is different and values things differently. I don't "keep up with the Jones's" because I dont care what they do - it doesn't affect me at all. I do what I feel is right and what makes sense fo rme and everyone has a little different idea of what that is.

 

[disneysteve]

Originally posted by deltachi8
I think the answer here is everyone is different and values things differently.

This is certainly true.

I don't "keep up with the Jones's" because I dont care what they do - it doesn't affect me at all.

This, unfortunately, is not true. How other people manage their personal finances does affect others. It affects the rates you are charged for insurance. It affects the prices you pay at the store. It affects the interest rates on credit cards and other loans. The record numbers of personal bankruptcies and loan delinquencies has a ripple effect on the general economy. So all those people living beyond their means can affect those handling their money more responsibly.

 

[eeyore kelly]

A couple of weeks ago. When we started planning our trip WDW it was going to be for us another family. We both have to save up, hence trip is a year and a half away. Found out last week, they haven't saved a penny toward the trip. They are talking about trips to Six Flags and impluse buys. I doubt when it comes time to put up the money they will have it. (They make less money than us. So saving and looking at the big picture should be even more important)

I am a SAHM but DH works in plant and makes good income. With a careful eye on the budget, we have a modest savings, and do good-- no debt except car (2 more years). Yes, I shop sales and clearence, save gift bags and tissue paper, buy slip covers instead of new furniture, save my change, and budget for WDW just like a bill.

That said, I find saving fun. I like to go online and see my disney account grow. It also helps us plan ahead. I did almost all of Christmas shopping for DD and others at Disney store.com sale with free shipping.

Do I get jealous, yep, for a split second sometimes, then I think going to the Mouse's House. All of the sudden, I'm not jealous anymore.

 

[disneysteve]

Originally posted by eeyore kelly
I find saving fun. I like to go online and see my disney account grow.

I'm the exact same way. I guess that's what makes me different from the spenders. I get far more enjoyment out of saving money than I do from spending it. I get a rush from finding a great bargain or making a big sale on ebay or picking up some fantastic bargain at a yard sale.

I like going online and using the retirement calculators or savings calculators to project how our money will grow.

I'd much rather do this stuff than go out and spend every penny I make (and more with credit cards) and have nothing put away for the future.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy myself. We just got back from a 7-day Caribbean cruise. We're doing another one in March. We're doing a week at Disney in November. And we do go out to eat and do other fun things. We just choose our spending more carefully than some of our friends. I'm convinced it will be well worth it when we are enjoying a comfortable retirement and others are still working when they are 70.

 

[WDWorBUST]

I agree with all the others. My DH was out of work for almost a year and it really hurt us financially - oh....we also had a baby while he was out of work. However by thinking ahead (short term disability insurance) and our good habits we were rewarded by having one credit card with a balance at 2.9% and one at 4.9%....neither are maxed out...I just wasn't able to get the 2.9% later. It's making me crazy carrying that balance though. So I have a plan and we should be out of debt by the end of next year INCLUDING student loans - ROCK ON!! Of course I can't complain too much about that small balance - the interest rate on it is less than 2%. Anyway.....we have friends that don't save well - they have a new house and bought new cars less than 6 months apart - and I'm happy for them. I just couldn't do it. It's like I tell my DH - everyone has different priorities....mine just happen to be to get out of debt - stay out of debt - and go to Disney every chance I get. Oh...and I am guilty .....I will go back to Disney before the debt is paid off....but I won't be adding to it with the trip we are saving for it separately.

 

[Chicago526]

Well, right now, since BF and I are single, we can buy (almost) anything we want and still save, so no - not jealous at all!

But even when we are married and have kids, I don't think I will be then, either. I plan on being a SAHM from birth until the youngest in in 1st grade, and then part-time only. So I'm sure our income will of course go down by quite a bit ($40,000 a year by the time I have my first one). But I think SAHM's contribute a lot to a families income by not working and using the time they have to search for money saving bargins. Just by having time to cook and clip coupons can save hundreds a month. Plus no day care costs, reduced gas for the car, no work clothes to buy or dry clean...it all adds up. So even after I stop working, we'll still be able to go to Disney once a year (it won't be at a Deluxe resort, but we'll be there!) and still have a comfortable lifestyle. I'm lucky that BF has a job that he won't be able to lose (yeah, I know what your thinking, but it is impossible for him to be layed off, trust me!). So this will allow me to be home with the kiddies.

I too hate having credit card debt. I also hate car payments, although they are nessesary. I'm a good saver but a car is hard to pay for in cash! My rule is that if the car is more than $250 per month, and/or it takes more than 3 years to pay off the car, then I can't afford it! I learned that leason after having to pay for 5 years on my first car. The last two years, even though I could easly make the payments, seemed to take FOREVER and I was so happy to have that extra $$$ every month! Now I'm working on the credit card and that will be paid off (hopefully) in about 6 to 9 months, depending on what my bonus is. And then I'll never run it up again (although the balane right now is only $3200, that's low by today's standards.).

Anyway, to answer the question: No, I'm not jealous now, and don't think I will be even when I have less "play" money in the future.

 

[barbeml]

DH and I have the same attitude about money--pay yourself first, save for rainy days and (hopefully) retire early, and have a good time now! For us, it's all about balance.

We do not make a huge income for our area, but we own two homes that will be paid off in about 9 years (we refinanced both and knocked ten years of payments off each). We pay off our credit card balances in full every month.

We take full advantage of reward programs and are smart shoppers. Two months ago, we bought a new, fully loaded car (because my 7-year old car needed an expensive repair and it was time), and it cost us less than $12,000 after we applied rebates, trade allowance and credit card rewards. And we wrote a check, so no interest!

We do not live frugally (we dine out twice a week and entertain friends and family regularly), just below our means. Every month, money is automatically deducted from our checking account for investments and I put another $600 (equivalent of out two former car payments) into our savings. All change, singles and "found money" (rebates, expense checks, etc) go into our Disney savings. Our November trip is paid for to the penny already--and we got AP's, so our two 2005 trips will cost much less.

I enjoy the challenge of saving, finding reward programs and entering contests (have won quite a few things).

You never know what the day will bring (DH's company is not being paid by some clients, so he did not get an expected bonus, my company lost a major client and my paycheck got cut in half for now), so it is good to know that you have enough in the bank to keep going without losing sleep.

 

[disneysteve]

Originally posted by Chicago526
But I think SAHM's contribute a lot to a families income by not working and using the time they have to search for money saving bargins. Just by having time to cook and clip coupons can save hundreds a month. Plus no day care costs, reduced gas for the car, no work clothes to buy or dry clean...it all adds up.

This is so true and so many people just don't see it that way. We have a friend who was constantly complaining about her job and how hard it was to work full time and still manage things at home. When we discussed it, she actually said, "I have to work to be able to afford daycare." It simply never occurred to her that if she didn't work, she wouldn't need daycare.

When you actually sit down and run the numbers, a lot of spouses are working for very little money once all the expenses are figured in. I don't mean to sound sexist (I don't care if its the man or the woman who stays home with the kids) but I think the average household can be run far more efficiently if one partner is home full-time. You can shop better. You can do more from scratch cooking which reduces food costs. You can eliminate hired help for things like mowing the lawn, cleaning the house, etc. You reduce your clothing expenses. You reduce your gasoline usage and put fewer miles on your car. Unless the working spouse makes a pretty substantial income, it may actually make more sense financially for that person to stay home.

 

[lucy_love_]

hi

i just realise what sahm stands for and i am one too.

things are different here than in the usa. my dh has pension plans (retirement funds) and im am saving for my kids to go to uni but for now its free to go to uni here so the money i am saving is for their personal use. also there is such a thing as student loan which you only pay back if you have a fairly high paying job and you pay back with very little or no intrest (or used to). i think you would be on a wage of about $50.000 before you start paying a student loan back. things do seem to be changing with the labour government (which are crap)

anyway thats me

love

lucy

 

[Goobergal99]

the same is true for stay at home DADS!!! women who work well paying jobs should have the ability to allow their hubbys to stay home also.. thats just my femisnistic 2 cents!!!

 

[Kristi1357]

Originally posted by Goobergal99
the same is true for stay at home DADS!!! women who work well paying jobs should have the ability to allow their hubbys to stay home also.. thats just my femisnistic 2 cents!!!

DH is pretty much the SAHD. He does work, freelance, and that can be 0-4 days per week. Without daycare expense, the "missing" money really isn't an issue.

I also agree with a pp - if I had a ton of money, I would still be shopping a Target and redeeming coupons. I can't stand paying a cent more than I have to for anything! My gradnparents have more money than they will ever be able to spend, and grandma still uses coupons and buys alot of generic / store brand items at the grocery store. That's exactly how they got to where they are now and I am going to follow their awesome example.

It is easy to get jealous of others. Our good friends just bought a house that cost twice as much as their previous one. Then they went out and traded their 2000 CRV for a 2004. For a minute, we were a bit jealous. Then we realized - they don't take vacations (they stay home during weeks off from work), andf they don't have a college fund for their 15 year old. I would guess there is not much for retirement either. As great as some of the things they have are, I wouldn't trade it for a minute - DH gets to stay home, we have a smaller (aka less-stressful) mortgage, and we get to go on a few vacations a year. Who could ask for more?

 

[travelbug]

Originally posted by ForTheLoveofDisney
That's because the Joneses are broke!!

Anyway, DH took over the finances like a tidal wave and it was the best thing that could have happened in our marriage!! We now have $1,000 in savings for our emergency fund. You know as "Murphy's Law repellent" as we're paying off our credit card, car payment, debt and have vowed to never use credit again!! We now are on track to have ALL debt gone by September of next year. At which time we will take a long 10-12 day vacation entirely paid for of course! In 5 years we hope to have the mortgage gone!!

Our adopted motto is "Live like no one else so one day we can truly live like no one else!!"

April, it sounds like you've been reading Dave Ramsey's books. I recognize his memorable wording. I love his books, don't you?

To answer the OP's question, no, I really don't envy the non-savers of the world. Saving and bargain hunting are like hobbies to me. I'm always in the hunt for a way to cut costs or a great deal on something I actually need. I hate the thought of spending more than I need to on ANYTHING.

I also saw something really sad at Target a few hours ago. When I got to the checkout counter, there was a young couple that had a cart full of bags. They were systematically putting one credit card after another through the little machine, only to have each one rejected. The wife finally turned to her husband and asked, "Do we have any money ANYWHERE?" His only response was, "Keep trying the cards." She did eventually find a card that went through. Now I obviously know nothing of their circumstances, nor could I see what they had bought because the stuff was already in bags. None of that is for me to judge, and that's not my point. I was just heartsick watching them go through such a torturous situation. Who knows if this young couple could be called "non-savers" or whether they have had job layoffs or whatever. I just thought about them when i saw the topic of this thread.

 

[floridagirrl2]

Originally posted by KathiWithAnI
Marcy, I am right there with you!!! DH was laid off in 2001 while he was out of work, our savings were drained and when he finally found another job it was for 35k less!
So our savings were gone, credit card debt was UP just trying to keep food on the table and the mortgage paid and then we are making way less than we used to......
My youngest also starts school this fall and I have now taken on a 2nd parttime job.

Ah well, it will be fixed one day, just not today.
Kathi

Been there done that! DH and I were both laid off from our jobs 5 months apart five years ago. I ended up taking a job that paid 40% less. DH refused to ever work for anybody else again (this was his 2nd lay-off), and he started his own business. We are both now back to making what we did before we were laid off, but we had some very rough years. Our savings were also drained and we had to charge up a credit card (almost paid off now).

We are socking away money for retirement, getting our old house fixed up (which we really neglected while we were in school and then laid off), putting money back into our emergency savings account, AND spending a long weekend at Disney or the beach about every month to month-and-a-half.

We have a mortgage payment (which will be paid off in our early 60s, when we retire), student loans (geesh! They are huge and our degrees are in the fields from which we were laid off!) that will also be paid off before we retire, a car payment (3 years left out of the original 4), and a credit card bill (that will be paid off in the next few months).

We don't live extravagently (we will never "move up" from our starter house--we love it and don't need any more room, we drive our cars for an average of 10 years, we pay cash for all our vacations) but I am not willing to put off vacations just to pay off debt early. I look at our student loans like I look at our mortgage payment--they will be paid off before we retire and it's more important to save for retirement and to HAVE FUN than it is to be debt free. Those are my values and I don't expect anybody else to necessarily share them.

 

[aprilgail2]

I am a semi saver...I have money going in my 401K every week, money into my daughters college savings plan every week (I don't want her to have to worry about paying for college if/when she goes...its enough having to study etc without worring about paying for loans etc...) and the rest is for travel! I have some credit card bills but not a lot.....I had a godson who got cancer when he was 2..for the next 12 years we packed in all the travel and fun we could because you never knew if he would live to be old and he didn't...he died at 14 and I do NOT regret not pinching pennies or saving all my money for when I get old, he lived a nice life, short but nice....now i have my own daughter and I live by the same rules...you NEVER know what will happen in the future, I do not ever want to be able to say "gee if we'd only dont this or that....but I was to busy saving my money..."...no way.... I live 75 percent for today and 25 percent for tomorrow..I will never have to say "its to bad we didn't have time to do...." I won't have any regrets.

 

[DeDixie]

No, I don't get jealous. In fact it's just the opposite, I feel bad for them. I know it's their choice on how to save/spend, I just wonder when they will hit the wall.

We don't carry any debt (except mortgage) and never have. I think one time I paid 1/2 of our CC bill one month and the rest the next, that was when I was 19! We saved ahead for our cars, then pay cash - and buy used. I would rather save first, then buy -- instead of the other way around. We wanted to buy DVC, so we saved up first then paid cash.

Lately I have been watching a lot of shows like "Clean Sweep" and have been going on a website called Flylady.net that talks about purging stuff and cleaning. I am really into purging the STUFF out of our lives. Now when I go to target I can't find anything I need. I have vowed to not buy any more STUFF for a while. My DH came home with 2 coffee mugs he got at a work and I told him to pick 2 old ones we had and get rid of them.

It's funny how this ties in with saving money as my whole outlook has changed, I now only want to spend money on things that we need, will make our live better, or be an experience. I would rather see a show in NYC then buy a new dvd player that has a super sound system. I would rather take a helicopter ride in Alaska then buy jewelry.

For Christmas I am going to do the same and try and not buy much stuff even for my kids. I did this last year, but am going to take it farther this year. My kids will get clothes, tickets for shows, or things to DO -- like parasailing in DIsney, a show on broadway or a week at a camp they want to go to in the summer. Last year they got upgraded PAP for disney so they could go the the H20 parks and Disney Quest- they will get 2 summer trips with these passes.

My DH hopes to retire by 55, I currently only work part time. I was a SAHM when the kids were little.

Hope this makes sense and that I didn't ramble too much!

 

[hockey mom]

I was also a wee bit jealous of a few until I realized there is more that goes on behind closed doors.

A co-worker was taking more Disney vacations than us, eating out alot more and had just bought a beautiful home. Our incomes were very close and I couldn't figure out how she was doing it. She was fired a few weeks ago for stealing from the company.

 

[summersfam4]

(LOL) You want to see jealous, I'm green with envy over your situation . I have wanted to be debt free since I learned what debt was. DH is not good with finances so we married while he was deeply in debt and I lost all senses and being young and stupid (just me not everyone is young and stupid) went along with the game buying big, no savings, and no cares, then I started becoming wise with age and remembered that debt free feeling. It was about this time I not only found out DD#2 was on the way (I am a SAHM and proud)but DH suddenly faced large financial difficulties at work and we lost income totally for over six months. Lost all savings we had aquired and bought food on the CC as it was all we had and I was having a tough expensive pregnancy, our credit rating dropped sooooo low and we have been working hard for years to be free. Now we are recovering, a large personal loan was paid off this year opening a good chunk of $$$ to work with getting rid of the others. The 20% of our 80-20 mortgage (because we live on too much land the mortgage company said) will be paid off spring 2005 (NEXT SPRING WOOPIE) and both (yep that's right both one new one was needed and then the second was totaled at almost the same time) cars will be paid off next late summer early fall 2005 and then we are DONE! So I am jealous, I can't wait to be like you! Yes it will take a bit longer because I do take the family on vacation every year, but I also believe in making lasting memories, on a budget, in a timeshare, packing snacks, loving the change jar, ect. I will be there debt free alongside you guys one day and I won't feel jealousy for the Jones, but pity as they never know either when something will happen that will make living paycheck to paycheck a big loss. Enjoy your debt free feeling

Kelly

On my way!

 

[disneysteve]

Originally posted by aprilgail2
you NEVER know what will happen in the future, I do not ever want to be able to say "gee if we'd only dont this or that....but I was to busy saving my money..."...no way.... I live 75 percent for today and 25 percent for tomorrow..I will never have to say "its to bad we didn't have time to do...." I won't have any regrets.

I agree. Citibank had a great billboard slogan a couple of years ago. They said, "Build a nest egg but don't forget to have some omelettes along the way."

As for the 75-25 comment, I think that would be great. Are you actually investing 25% of your income? If so, that's incredible! The reality is that most people only save between 0% and 5% of their income for the future. That simply isn't enough to fund a comfortable retirement. Those folks can expect to either work well into their 70's and beyond or retire with a much lower standard of living than they currently enjoy. Personally, we invest about 16-18% of my gross income. I'm hopeful that will be enough to allow me to pack it in by age 60 and enjoy the remainder of my life without any major changes to our standard of living.

For those of you who aren't good savers, I'd recommend a few very good books. The Automatic Millionaire, The Millionaire Next Door, and The Wealthy Barber. All talk about how all the little financial decisions we make day to day affect our long term financial health. One other recommendation is You Don't Have to Be Rich, or any other book by Jean Chatzky.

And for anyone who really wants to be a hard core saver, pick up the Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyczyn.