Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[pakhowe]

I am very disappointed in what I consider to be drastic changes. We bought in to AKV in September and have yet to take our first trip home. Through banking and borrowing we have been planning to book our first trip home in Feb. of 2010. We are planning on reserving multiple savannah view units sun - thurs as we are including family members for our first trip home. According to the new point chart posted earlier, this trip will now cost us substantially more points. A trip like this (which requires banking and borrowing) takes significant advance planning. The short notice of such a significant change is in my opinion inexcusable. I guess I just expected to be treated better. I think the timing is unfair and the notion that "the poor timing does not affect the approriateness of the change" is absurd on it's face. If the timing is inapropriate, it obviosely affects the overall appropriateness, at least as far as it relates to implementation.

What irritates me even more than the changes based on day of the week, is the redistrubution of point requirements at AKV based on catagory. A major selling point for AKV (used extensively by the salespeople as well as in the literature) are the animals right outside your room. Our guide used the points chart to show us how to decide the number of points to purchase based upon the catagory and time of year we would likely desire. We are now being hit with a double whammy. Redistrubtion of points based on day of week and category, and all of this before we take our first trip home. I am also confused by this changed, as I have read repeatedly on these boards that the value catagories are difficult to book as they go fast.

Perhaps a more customer friendly course of action would have been to provide a notice of up to three years. Prospective buyers could then see what the current point requirements are as well as an approximation of point requirements based upon a well planned and thought out redistribution.

I understand the possibility of redistribution exists at any time, but this change so soon after I purchased leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I do not believe for a second that these changes were not planned at the time of my purchase and feel that DVC was not very forthcoming with me, bordering on deceptive.

On a side note I apologize if this post is a bit rambling. I underwent surgery today and although the pain killers are doing their job, they left me a bit floaty.

 

[BeccaG]

This was a very cool way to look at it! Just had to say!

 

[Belle & Ariel]

I like the change. We usually go on a Friday and stay 9 nights checking out on a Sunday. It will drop our point cost a little.
Hopefully the resorts will have better occupancy rates on the weekends making better use of our investment.
I think they should do it now rather than wait. It would be a poor business decision to leave so many rooms vacant on weekends another year. I don't know the per capita spending per day, but it would add up over a year.
I am sorry for those scrambling to get enough points for planned stays. I think if you cut back one night every few years, you will be fine. Your plans might even change to where you save points on some stays to balance it out.

 

[tidefan]

Yeah, everything is nice and legal, it doesn't mean everyone should be jumping around with joy. (and no, this change doesn't affect me, I just think it's terrible for all those that are being affected in the name of shareholder value)

While I think that the timing of this isn't great and I feel for those who have planned Sun-Thurs trips at the same week every year for the next 40 years, I don't think that the reallocation is part of some "sinister" plan by accountaneers to separate more money from peoples wallet. Being in the data analysis arena, I would bet anything that DVC maintains ratios of occupancy over points required or something similar. My guess is that these were getting so out of whack that they felt like they had to do something.

I think that they are between a rock and a hard place due to what Dean alluded to about not doing this earlier. By basically encouraging Sun-Thurs stays, the demand seemed to be getting to where people were having issues getting stays. If you have 7 days worth of members all trying to reserve only 5 days, problems could come quickly. Do any of you remember on the infamous reservation thread how "those checking in on weekends will prevent all of the Sun-Thurs stays from ever getting reservations" (BTW, I think that whole issue was a bit of a red herring, the reservation system hasn't seemed to make a big difference one way or the other). So, it apparently is either reallocate or start getting to where people start to run into issues on reservations...

So, I guess I don't have an issue with the reallocations, as from a supply/demand standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Now from a PR standpoint, if these are the true charts, then they've botched the rollout a bit. A few things that if it were me that I might do are:

1) Have like a 1 week period where the add-on minimums are gone. Completely. Now, I know that they probably can't logistically do this, but it seems like the biggest issue is with shifts of 1-5 points for a week. Take a week and let folks add on any amount of points to cover their needs. Even better, let the folks who now need 2 extra points purchase them from those who now have 2 points extra each year. Now, I know contractually, this probably wouldn't work, so the next best thing would be...

2) Get rid of 100 point minimum add-ons, at least for one's home resort, and go back to 25.

3) Let any BLT member who purchased prior to the point change have the option to sell the contract back to DVC and to repurchase another contract (for the amount of points they may now want) under the same terms they originally purchased.

4) God forbid, a member may have to stay at OKW every now and then...

5) I'm OK with the gratuity on the meal plan, but let me have the choice of the appetizer instead of the dessert!

 

[Chuck S]

2) Get rid of 100 point minimum add-ons, at least for one's home resort, and go back to 25.

Doesn't the 100 point minimum add-on apply ONLY to BLT? Aren't all other resorts still 25 points (cash) and 50 points (financed) minimum. Or is the 100 point add-on for all resorts, now?

 

[tidefan]

Doesn't the 100 point minimum add-on apply ONLY to BLT? Aren't all other resorts still 25 points (cash) and 50 points (financed) minimum. Or is the 100 point add-on for all resorts, now?

No. You're right, it's BLT and GCV, but I still say get rid of it...

 

[tjkraz]

Doesn't the 100 point minimum add-on apply ONLY to BLT? Aren't all other resorts still 25 points (cash) and 50 points (financed) minimum. Or is the 100 point add-on for all resorts, now?

It is just BLT now but all signs are pointing toward the Grand Californian having the same floor. I guess VGC is a little different, though, since buyers should have all of the info up-front and sub-100 pt add-ons will never be an option.

 

[BeccaG]

As I noted, to me the surprise is that it's took them this long to make changes. It shouldn't have been a surprise IMO. Timeshares change over the years and the protections you have are what's in the legal documents and state statutes. I simply don't get the unfair issue as I think everyone either knew or should have know this was a possibility if not a probability.

I hear what you are saying and that is why I used the word feel before unfair. However, for many of us there is an emotional part of us when it comes to vacationing and to Disney. So while your point is valid and your predictions were accurate I think you need to understand that for many their decision to purchase had an emotional component. Therefore their reaction to the "alleged point charts" will have an emotional component as well. It seems that you are not emotionally connected to the process (which is neither a good or bad thing.) But the bottom line, is many of us do get emotional about our vacations, which is OK too.

 

[BeccaG]

You feel they just realized the need to change the formula within 4 months of starting sales at BLT?

I find it very disingenuous to have had every opportunity to create a point chart for BLT reflecting the new emphasis and yet within 4 months of releasing the BLT chart and starting sales they have now changed the point charts - at the same time increasing the minimum purchase at that resort - especially when the resort does not even open for more than 7 months.

With every new resort , they have had ample opportunity to modify the point charts to reflect the expected member usage. They did modify the chart for SSR, again for AKV and yet again 4 months ago for BLT. They certainly have no track record to go on for utilization at BLT. Are you suggesting this was just brought to their attention since BLT sales opened in September?

Since 1992, DVC has always released the new point charts about 15 months in advance and usually sent those charts, in print form and by mail to each member. For whatever reason, we still have nothing even on the member website and even that information has been posted and then retrieved because it was in error.

I am not surprised that changes are being made - I agree it was inevitable at some point - but I am surprised at the changes across the board and at the poor timing used for these changes.

Well said!!!!

 

[Inkmahm]

Well...count me in as disappointed. And I know all about being legal and within Disney's rights....and so on.......

Our usually pattern with our OKW stays are a 2 bedroom/Magic Season/Sun-Thurs = 150 points

I tried every different way I could think to get 5 nights out OKW in a 2 bedroom/Magic season and it's bleak.

According to the new charts (thanks for all that saved and posted), 5 nights would now cost me one of the following :

Sun thru Thurs = 180 points (30 points more)
Tues thru Sat = 226 points (76 points more)
Mon thru Fri = 203 points (53 points more)

This is signifant to us and our travel patterns. Been Members since 2000.




So we're not talking 3 or 4, or 5 points more.........particularily in the case of OKW, we're talking 30-76 points more for the exact same stay. I mean, I'm still working different scenarios out right now....but the fact we tend to vacation in early to mid Aug out of necessity, we don't feel we have much choice at all here. But so far, I see the allocation forcing us to NOT be able to make additional shorter stays down in WDW. Thus, in turn, less money from us that we would spend on meals/souveniers.......and we may not even buy AP's any longer due to this change. Not to mention, the add-on at BLT we were considering. I don't know....still have to try and work this all out and see how it works for our family and the way we have become accustomed to vacationing for the past 8 years.

Your numbers didn't pass my "smell test" so I went to look them up myself.

Reality is that Sun-Thurs will be 180 and that IS 30 more points for the time you normally vacation.

But Tues-Sat would be 226 and that is actually 10 less than the 236 it would have been using the old 30 per night S-Th and 73 per night on F, Sa

Mon-Fri would be 203 and that is 10 more than the 193 it would have been using the old 30 per night S-Th and 73 per night on F, Sa

I realize you are comparing to what you paid before, but it seemed a bit misleading as it sounded like you were comparing to the 2009 charts. In reality, Disney did just what it said. Made weekends more inviting to use and Sun-Thurs less so.

 

[Marshay]

Ok, please know that I just ask this question in innocence.

If Disney wants to fill up its rooms every day of the week, then why isn't every day the same number of points within a given season and room category?

I certainly understand the larger the room, the more points and the various busy seasons such as summer and holidays. But I've never understood why Disney penalizes weekend stays so much ... that DVC folks actually try to avoid the weekends ...

Thanks for your insight -- I'm new (owned for 2 years) and want to learn!

 

[tjkraz]

If Disney wants to fill up its rooms every day of the week, then why isn't every day the same number of points within a given season and room category?

The purpose of the points chart is to balance demand.

It stands to reason that if the points were equal, Friday and Saturday nights would be booked MUCH earlier than the weeknights. Specifically those within driving distance would purchase DVC in greater numbers for use as weekend getaway. We would be left with a situation the opposite of what we have now--weekends would be at 100% occupancy and the resorts would struggle to fill rooms Su-Th.

It's pretty much the same concept as the different seasons on the calendar. Demand for New Year's Eve is MUCH higher than, say, September 15th. Thus it costs many more points to stay the night of NYE.

 

[MagicalPins]

Its about time Disney finally fixed the flawed point charts. I'm surprised it took them this long to get it done. After seeing how many people here are complaining, its obvious that this was the right move to make to even out the demand for booking and help improve DVC overall!

Good work Disney! You got something right this time!

 

[MiaSRN62]

Your numbers didn't pass my "smell test" so I went to look them up myself.

Reality is that Sun-Thurs will be 180 and that IS 30 more points for the time you normally vacation.

But Tues-Sat would be 226 and that is actually 10 less than the 236 it would have been using the old 30 per night S-Th and 73 per night on F, Sa

Mon-Fri would be 203 and that is 10 more than the 193 it would have been using the old 30 per night S-Th and 73 per night on F, Sa

Inkmahm....guess I didn't make myself clear. I do apologize. I have 150 points to work with....and can only go in Aug (Magic season). For 8 years I've been able to get 5 nights/2 bedroom/OKW for 150. The days/patterns I chose in my example didn't matter as I was just trying to find a way to get 5 nights---or at least 5 nights for not too much more. I didn't care which days of the week we stayed.

All I know is I can no longer stay 5 nights in a 2 bedroom at OKW for the number of points we have been for the past 8 years. That's all I meant. So, I'll just edit to say, our vacation in 2010 will cost us 30 more points. This means, we lose one night stay every single year. That's not chump change to me. That's ALOT to borrow every year and we just simply won't do it. This woeful reality, in addition to our issue with the AKV stay, is just upsetting. I just can't even find the words for it.

I probably should have just stated it this way to begin with. I'm tired. Coming off a 13 hour graveyard shift. The news of this drastic allocation combined with my fatigue....just hit me like a ton of bricks. I was just trying to say, I cannot make it work using any combination of days and still get 5 nights in a 2 bedroom. So for me, this is a huge loss. I realize some think this whole think is just grand. I know it has made me think entirely differently about DVC. REALLY glad now I didn't do the OKW extension. I most assuredly don't see the flexibility as it has been. I don't think I can recommend DVC to people as I have in the past. Not all of us need or want a 7 night stay. I have that with my offsite timeshare. Never purchased DVC for the same reasons.

Disney did just what it said. Made weekends more inviting to use and Sun-Thurs less so.

Ok fair enough.....but it has actually decreased the amount of days my family can vacation in WDW. So it's just how I, personally, feel about it. Upset. Makes me rethink everything about my Membership now.

 

[Kuzco]

The adjustments, whatever they may turn out to be, probably won't affect my traveling too much as I'm pretty flexible about when I can go and how long my stay is. However, I really hope the final adjustments don't affect everyone else's travel patterns too much. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

 

[mickeyinplano]

Am I missing something? If I am reading the 2010 charts correctly for SSR it looks to me that the weekend points required for both a GV and Studio go up for 2010 vs 2009 and the weekday points go down. This is opposite what I understand the concern to be.

 

[BroganMc]

Well color me annoyed if these 2010 changes stick. They completely mess with my future plans for arranging family gatherings. I worked out all these alternative plans based on the assumption of ponying up for the bigger family-size units on the cheaper weekdays at SSR. Now DVC is nickle-and-diming me out of my points. (5 more in the Spring, Fall, and Winter)

Looks like they are leaving my BLT "3-day studio stays a year" plans alone though. Still I think it incredibly stupid and dangerous for DVC to be pulling this kinda stunt now.

First they set an arbitrary deadline for the smaller BLT add-ons. Then they artificially inflate the point schedule a week later. BEFORE they've sent out the BLT add-on contract paperwork and settled the deals. I just got my papers to sign this week. Now I'm thinking I should rethink settling that smaller add-on until I see what sort of stunt DVC runs with for next year.

Definitely a bait-and-switch approach from my POV.

 

[MagicalPins]

Definitely a bait-and-switch approach from my POV.

Bait and switch just because Disney switch lowered the amount of points for you to stay on weekends and raised it on weekdays to make up for the error of the over inflated weekend pricing?

 

[BroganMc]

Bait and switch just because Disney switch lowered the amount of points for you to stay on weekends and raised it on weekdays to make up for the error of the over inflated weekend pricing?

You're forgetting the part where they gave me a 2009 chart with the proviso I buy just as many points as I expected to use. Then force me to make that decision by a certain date before they arbitrarily set the minimum add-on price to another $5000+. Once I make those calculations, begin the buying process then they magically change the point requirements for the next year AFTER the deadline to lower point add-ons passes. So let's say I had planned to use my smaller BLT add-on for a short (under 1 week stay) every Spring and come to find I'm now 5 points too short with my add-on contract. (The one where the ink hasn't even dried.) But to adjust for that I must now pay an additional several thousand dollars (in my case $4000+) for the new 100 pt minimum add-on at the very least. Or I can buy a smaller $10k 100 point add-on to buff up my smaller 60 pt contract.

Yup, bait-n-switch.

The whole idea of DVC is for members to buy the number of points needed to cover their intended stays. These altered charts affect those calculations, some more severe than others. I can imagine that's why they've been pulled so quickly. Someone made a lot of wrong assumptions in calculating this. DVC has never been a traditional weekly timeshare program. This is an attempt to make it appear that way. But, in the case of SSR, it's been a really botched job of it.

Now go look at the changes in the SSR point chart. That has weekly stays going up for just about every unit size except Grand Villas in the Fall & Winter. They robbed from the smaller units just to make the GVs less expensive. Not a good move IMHO. My SSR ownership (with 2 add-ons making it 430 points total) has gone from being able to easily do 4 weeks a year in a studio (Adventure, Choice, Dream & Magic) with 3 points to spare (427 points total) to now being 6 points under (436 points total). That means to keep the same value of my timeshare, I must add on 9 more points ($900+ to buy), but wait I have to do it in 25 pt minimums so that's really $2500+ more. $2500 more just to keep the same value I had last year and every year I've owned since 2006. And this is at a sold out resort. So all that calculating I did when I added on during the promotional periods, that means absolutely nothing now.

Don't get me started on the closure of the PI Clubs and the elimination of the NYE fireworks there. You would think DVC wants SSR owners to start hating their resort.

 

[Maribel]

As I noted, to me the surprise is that it's took them this long to make changes. It shouldn't have been a surprise IMO. Timeshares change over the years and the protections you have are what's in the legal documents and state statutes. I simply don't get the unfair issue as I think everyone either knew or should have know this was a possibility if not a probability.

As you know, I've been predicting this for some time. It took much longer than I expected because I expected it somewhere around 2001 or 2002. Assuming they got it close to right, this might be the last time (or might not be) unless there are factors that change and thus change the demand such as new festivals or events. I think we're seeing a different DVC now than then. IMO, DVC was overly concerned about member reaction and held back on changes they should have made. That certainly does not seem to be the case now with the changes we've seen lately.

I have to say I agree with you. It looks like most people that come to this boards have squared down exactly how they want things done for the next 50 or so years and have some type of aversion to changes, but that is not the case for all, and I would dare to say, the majority of DVC members.
I bought my points knowing they were entitled to make changes in order to make the program work at it best, and I kept it myself flexible knowing that life itself changes.
There are many time shares programs that let you have your choice of week (the same every single year) when you buy. After you buy, you cannot change it, add a day one year, take a day off another, change the type of accommodation to invite family members, etc. To change you will have to go to an exchange process.
This is not what you bought when you got into the points system. Flexibility was what sold me into DVC.
I do agree with other posters about how late in the game it is to change the 2010 points charts. They should have done this in the fall or early december so that people had enough time to plan their January 2010 vacations, which period for reservations will open next week, but the change itself is welcomed in my family, and I will say in the families of many DVC members that do not come or posts in these boards for fears of feeling like the odd kid at school.
While some member will feel ripped off, others will feel they lucked out.
The first group may decide to sell, but that won't really affect the rest or the DVC program as if someone sells, some other will buy and pay those dues anyway.