Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[Dean]

They sucked folks in with the following:

1) Every guide sings a version of the following song, even the DVC videosays this: Based on the 160 point minimum you could get up to 2 weeks of vacations if you budget correctly.
2) Points can be adjusted but they will always balance...What does that mean? Well if you look at the history of DVC it means that the points chart will stay the same except for seasonal adjustments. Yes there have been a few isolated changes but for the most part it is implied that Xpoints will get you y accomodations in Z season Sunday through Thursday and 2X points for Fri and 3x for Sat. See the following from dvcnews:

DVC points can be redeemed for any of the Disney Vacation Club resorts as well as a variety of other Disney and non-Disney destination. The resorts which are home to actual DVC villas are collectively known as the Disney Vacation Club Collection. The most economical use of DVC points will always be found within this grouping. Also note that there is very little flexibility for these point values to ever change. An Old Key West Studio that costs 8 points per night today is likely to still cost 8 points per night in another 20 years. The only way that DVC could ever raise points for a given night at one of the Disney Vacation Club Collection resorts is by lowering the points for another night in the year.

3) Do we really think after all these years of DVC that a major rebalance is in order? They've had it that wrong for so long? Or is it more likely that Disney is taking advantage of travel habits and is trying to maximize their profit by minimizing the number of nights DVCers can get accomodations?

4) If Disney is truely rebalancing, what prevents them from rebalancing last minute every year? So much for planning and banking. What if their rebalancing causes a big up swing in weekend bookings, especially by local DVCers, then they will be "forced, as some have implied it is their fiduciary duty" forced to increase weekend points. Great, we'll be back where we were, except....
5) DVCers may add on to maintain there current preferred vacation style. Very clever.

6) For all of you that don't see a problem with what is going on here, I ask you this...What prevents Disney from changing the points structure so that every other night is "expensive"? They know that DVCers are going to stay more then one night so they make, pick any days, Friday, Sunday and Tuesday "premium" days. Nothing says they need to maintain the Sunday through Thursday and Fri/Sat. Maybe everyday will get it's own value to really balance demand.

I think we were all sold a bill of goods that implied that for any given vacation, until our contracts expired, the only increase in cost would be the MFs. I'm disappointed in the way Disney has handled this. I was seriously considering a substaintial add-on at HHI and now there is no way. I am also going to stop promoting to everyone I can, what a great deal Disney Vacation Club is.

As it turns out, The "Best Kept Secret" was how Disney planned to screw DVCers with a major point reallocation.

1. You can still get 2 weeks of vacation, it just might be a studio at HH adventure season. Verbal representations mean nothing if not in writing.
2. I don't think that it was ever a given that weekend vs weekday wouldn't change, we've discussed the possibility if not likelihood here on DIS many times.
3. Yes I do think it was necessary and long overdue. DVC has the obligation legally and contractually to manage demand and utilization. I think the problem is that they didn't do it sooner. I think they were too timid to and hoping things would even out. But when weekend occupancy (# of rooms reserved) was as much as 25% off (from what I've heard), this is a problem. Some will likely say it's because Disney can't rent out the rooms on weekends like before but I doubt that's the case. This doesn't affect their profits at all for existing members and the affect on new sales is minimal to nothing either.
4. Nothing to prevent it other than the hassle and work involved. It's foolish to think they have done this on a whim or will in the future without good reason. If this isn't perfect, they may indeed have to fine tune in the future. However, they now have a heck of a lot of info to know where they need to be. Unless there are major changes that affect utilization patterns, I would expect this is pretty close to where we'll be in 2042. The issue facing DVC in it's later years is a membership that's aging and thus the those too many HA units will become too few at some point. You'll then have rooms that are empty that a subset of the membership can't use and points sitting waiting on a wait list for a room type with rooms available in general.
6. Technically they would make such a change but it makes no sense, this does. It's like you think they did this to screw the members when I see it as totally the opposite with only a subset negatively but unintentionally affected. Truthfully I'm one of those affected as when I stay on points it's almost always S-F and when I rent out, it's generally the same. IMO you should have known this was a possibility and I don't see it affecting the value of DVC significantly to any potential buyer. If anything, they can better plan than those of us who have owned for a while.

 

[alldiz]

I agree. I don't think it would have been there or in that format if they didn't intend that to be the correct charts. I'm guessing they are coming up with another PR statement to tell us that "we" requested this change.

Just like I was told at the beginning of the year the dining plan no longer includes a tip because the guests requested that. This gives the guest full control over the tip.

BS!!!!

I have been hoping for some weekend point relief.
However, I do think that BLT owners have a legitimate complaint. They bought into something that they won't be able to use for even a whole year and with the change of terms of buying BLT points, I think DVC is wrong on that score. Do you think even BLT points should have been affected like they were?

Bobbi

Unfortunately for me....WLV I usually get 1BR....looks like it went up on weekends and weekdays for all seasons
Kerri

 

[disneybride96]

Is there really the same number of points total on those charts? Is it my imagination or has weekly totals on almost every catagory actally increased?

I'll admit... I am a Sun-Thurs traveler, but DVC made me that way. Before DVC, I never traveled that way. I think they overadjusted their own point chart to start with.

 

[december14disney]

Has anyone given a thought to the poor renters? How this is going to affect them? For years and years they have been told to rent Sun through Thur night. Now what are they going to do???

Sammie, good to see you around again. I love your bus driver analogy. It is so true. I saw this coming a few years ago.

I wonder if rental prices per point will go up now?

 

[december14disney]

I'm guessing they are coming up with another PR statement to tell us that "we" requested this change.

This made me laugh out loud.

 

[dzorn]

Thank you. I thought it would be on their first page with DVC News.

You would think breaking news would be on the first page but that just makes it to easy to follow.

Denise in MI

 

[Cindaddy]

As far as BLT goes, Disney had an ethical obligation to start selling that resort with the newer point chart. I'm not arguing whether the point change needed to happen or not. I'm arguing that they knew the point change was coming and should have introduced it with that resort.

 

[Anal Annie]

I can't believe I missed this news yesterday when it was still HOT. Where was I? Now I can't see them and I don't know what I missed or how this will affect us. GRRRR. I can tell you now tho that I sure am glad we did not do some stooopid add-on for some stoooopid weird amount of points at stooopid BLT thinking we'd have just what we needed for banking & borrowing extended weekend trips!! Good grief I'd be pissed.

What happened with the BLT charts? Did they go up? I've heard VWL went up across the board. How can they do that? What happened to SSR? GRRRRR again I say! JUST when we were starting to think about a Sun-Thur trip for spring break 2010. GRRRRRRRRRRR. And I feel so-o-o in the dark that I didn't even get a chance to see this cluster of a mess.

 

[jekjones1558]

Here are points charts:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2067216

 

[RobDoc]

I do because they obviously changed the formula for weekends vs weekdays. They would be best served to implement those changes across the board. Likely better to do so now than leave BLT the same then change it in a year or two. As I noted, anyone either knew or should have know it could happen, and frankly, that it would likely happen at some point. Now is as good a time as any. IMO, anyone who purposefully bought only the number of points for only part of a week or even a full week in a lower season, made a poor choice. I realize that sometimes you find the right contract resale (or add on) where you don't have total control over the number of points. The bottom line is to expect other changes and that at least part of those changes will be negative to you and I.

You feel they just realized the need to change the formula within 4 months of starting sales at BLT?

I find it very disingenuous to have had every opportunity to create a point chart for BLT reflecting the new emphasis and yet within 4 months of releasing the BLT chart and starting sales they have now changed the point charts - at the same time increasing the minimum purchase at that resort - especially when the resort does not even open for more than 7 months.

With every new resort , they have had ample opportunity to modify the point charts to reflect the expected member usage. They did modify the chart for SSR, again for AKV and yet again 4 months ago for BLT. They certainly have no track record to go on for utilization at BLT. Are you suggesting this was just brought to their attention since BLT sales opened in September?

Since 1992, DVC has always released the new point charts about 15 months in advance and usually sent those charts, in print form and by mail to each member. For whatever reason, we still have nothing even on the member website and even that information has been posted and then retrieved because it was in error.

I am not surprised that changes are being made - I agree it was inevitable at some point - but I am surprised at the changes across the board and at the poor timing used for these changes.

 

[Dean]

Unfortunately for me....WLV I usually get 1BR....looks like it went up on weekends and weekdays for all seasons
Kerri

1 BR went up a little, studios went down some and 2 BR stayed about the same for a full week.

 

[JimC]

From the website:

"On January 21 a version of the 2010 Vacation Point Charts was incorrectly posted. An updated version will be made available within the next week. Members with valid email addresses on record will receive an email when the new charts are available. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused."

 

[logan115]

I wonder if rental prices per point will go up now?

I wonder what happens if a member rented a 2010 reservation already for $X, and now has to use more of their points - is the rentor then supposed to pay extra if there was already an agreement of $X for a Sun-Thurs stay in 2010 ?

 

[Dean]

You feel they just realized the need to change the formula within 4 moinths of starting sales at BLT?

I find it very disingenuous to have had every opportunity to create a point chart for BLT reflecting the new emphasis and yet within 4 months of releasing the BLT chart and starting sales they have now changed the point charts - at the same time increasing the minimum purchase at that resort - especially when the resort does not even open for more than 7 months.

Yes and no. The chart for BLT was likely done a couple of years ago (2-3) and based on the same basic formula (weekend vs weekday and unit size) as the other resorts. They've likely be actively working on this current rebalancing for the last year or so and likely finalized it in the last 2-4 months. I would agree it is poor timing to change the points chart after sales started but before the resort opened but given they changed the other resorts, now was as good a time as any going forward. Ideally would have been to have this change in place and release the changes at or before BLT points chart was released so you only saw the new BLT chart. I'd bet they just couldn't get it together in time (points charts done AND approved to all's satisfaction) in time to do it that way and had to chose between delaying sales and opening vs this issue we are now discussing. These things usually work with a couple of people responsible for the work, who show their work to some admin VP type along the way then the proposals go to committee for a vote then to the BOD and voting rep for final approval.

 

[Dean]

I wonder what happens if a member rented a 2010 reservation already for $X, and now has to use more of their points - is the rentor then supposed to pay extra if there was already an agreement of $X for a Sun-Thurs stay in 2010 ?

If someone rented a unit pending a future reservation, whether it would be appropriate for the renter to eat any extra points (or pocket any extra $$) or ask the rentee to pay more would depend on the specifics of their agreement. Certainly I can easily envision a situation where a renter could spend more points and have a commitment at a given price. However, I think most rentals for future reservations are based on a per point price and most that are a set $$$ amount are already reserved. If I had committed at a per point price and the number of points changed, I'd likely pass that cost on to the rentee but if I did so, I feel I'd have to let them out of any agreement if they so chose. OTOH, if we had a set price and reservation and the points went down, I'd likely pocket the extra.

 

[DeeCee735]

I imagine they took the points chart off the website temporarity, stating it was incorrectly posted because they realized the weekly points had gone up on some weeks, and that's not supposed to change even if they reallocate nightly points

 

[Dean]

I imagine they took the points chart off the website temporarity, stating it was incorrectly posted because they realized the weekly points had gone up on some weeks, and that's not supposed to change even if they reallocate nightly points

My guess would be that's not accurate. Actually weekly points can go up. What can't change is a UNIT for the entire year. With a few units that are 3 BR, all other units I'm aware of are a collection of multiple rooms. But if a single unit was a 2 BR lockoff, they could lower the studio and raise the 1 BR and still be within the rules. Or they could raise this week and lower next week if they wanted.

 

[KLR-wlv]

I just don't see how we can count on the points being any fixed amount now. So just to cover any possible point reallocation, I should - just to be safe -buy enough at every resort for 1 week, in a 2 br - just in case they change it some more to cover our regular vacation habits we've been practicing since dvc's inception. VWL weeknight in a 2 br in premier season went up 7 points a night - 35 extra for a 5 night stay. AN extra 55 points for the VB reservation I have this thanksgiving - so I need an extra 85 points to cover the same 10 nights in 2010. NOT insignificant and NOT what I paid for. So I should just invest another $8000 to get the same trips....

 

[sgtpet]

This news is very disappointing. This is impacting the DVC members negatively. The threat of minimum stays being forced upon us will probably be the last straw for me. What a shame. I will take the money from this and buy into a Marriott timeshare.

 

[RobDoc]

Yes and no. The chart for BLT was likely done a couple of years ago (2-3) and based on the same basic formula (weekend vs weekday and unit size) as the other resorts. They've likely be actively working on this current rebalancing for the last year or so and likely finalized it in the last 2-4 months. I would agree it is poor timing to change the points chart after sales started but before the resort opened but given they changed the other resorts, now was as good a time as any going forward. Ideally would have been to have this change in place and release the changes at or before BLT points chart was released so you only saw the new BLT chart. I'd bet they just couldn't get it together in time (points charts done AND approved to all's satisfaction) in time to do it that way and had to chose between delaying sales and opening vs this issue we are now discussing. These things usually work with a couple of people responsible for the work, who show their work to some admin VP type along the way then the proposals go to committee for a vote then to the BOD and voting rep for final approval.

I think you're being most generous towards DVC with these comments.

To suggest that they planned the BLT charts 2-3 YEARS ago and just planned the changes to all of the point charts (including BLT) 2 - 4 months ago is a very generous suggestion.

OK - lets say it was 4 months ago - then why would they NOT issue the new BLT points at the start of sales? To suggest that this plan was made less than 4 months ago when for the past 16 years the newly printed point charts have always been in the hands of the members by October certainly indicates that any deviation from that policy was in the works long before sales ever began at BLT and probably before the BLT sales point charts were even printed.

Perhaps some mention of these changes could have been announced at the annual meeting too - unless you're suggesting that the decision was made after early December? DVC has had plenty of opportunity to make these changes in a timely fashion and still get the new charts to members in the fall. In doing so, the BLT charts would have reflected the changes prior to removing the 100 point minimum purchase at that resort. Waiting until reservations are beginning for 2010 is a poor treatment of it's members when there has been plenty of opportunity for timely release of information. The Member website alone allows for opportunity for immediate communication and they certainly also use email for a number of other purposes - why not something as important as a change in the point charts?

I am not disputing the ability and right of DVC to make these changes - I was a member when this happened the first time , but at that time the changes coming for 1996 were sent to the members in September, 1994. I am challenging the timing and poor communication for such a "customer service" oriented company and one that holds itself out as being a notch above - the "DVC Difference".