disney trying to get back the genZ boys

[Scalemaster34]

I don't think it's just Gen Z Boys.... a lot of recent stuff just hasn't appealed to people in general, even if they sold tickets well enough.

 

[HokieRaven5]

now since I did not play the game and you did... what was bad, the story? the actors? I thought it essentially follows what happens in the game

Majority of the controversy surrounding the game/show comes from fragile male egos.

The story is a bit messier than the first part though, and there are some choices made character and story wise that rubbed the wrong way with fans.

 

[HokieRaven5]

I don't think it's just Gen Z Boys.... a lot of recent stuff just hasn't appealed to people in general, even if they sold tickets well enough.

Reality is probably much like cable/linear, theatrical market is also dying in terms of amount of patrons. It may have found a plateau as this year will be about the same as last year in total box office and ticket prices on average are about the same.

Since 2002 ticket sales have been dropping domestically, it’s just the cost of tickets have risen enough to compensate for the reduction of attendees.

 

[Smugpugmug]

now since I did not play the game and you did... what was bad, the story? the actors? I thought it essentially follows what happens in the game

There was a lot of hate aimed towards Bella Ramsey in the second season which I do not agree with as that's coming from terminally online losers that live in their mom's basement.

My main issue with the season was Ellie's character. Game Ellie and Season 2 Ellie are not even the same person. I'm not looking for a shot for shot remake but at least have the characters have the same core traits? In the game she is a bloodthirsty MONSTER who ruthlessly kills anyone without any regard. I feel like the showrunners were afraid people would hate her if they went down that route so she was toned down to where all of her kills are by accident. I feel like that undermines the message of the second game and Ellie's character development as a whole. She was raised by Joel who was at his core a violent man and in turn she becomes a violent woman but in the show she's constantly joking around and not taking the mission seriously. I didn't care for the writing for her and the season as a whole.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I don't think it's just Gen Z Boys.... a lot of recent stuff just hasn't appealed to people in general, even if they sold tickets well enough.

Definitely the case for me. Star Wars and Marvel are irrelevant to me but so is everything else in Disney's current line up. The next movie I plan on seeing is Good Boy in October.

 

[bryaalre]

Just to add my take on Last of Us as someone who has played the games (just replayed both 1 & 2) and watched the seasons. Season 1's focus was on the characters and the story as a whole, action was secondary. The change to lessen action and violence was not a big deal as the first game's theme focus was the characters and their relationship. Action heavy chapters like Bill's town or the tunnels in the game were not needed as these chapters don't really have an effect on the story or characters. The show could adapt their own episode revolving around Bill's town to focus on bringing more depth to the characters and enhancing the story. The main purpose of Bill's chapter in the game was to introduce some game mechanics (nail bomb, trip wire), the bloater and get a car to drive west. The game mechanics don't translate to live action and the bloater was introduced later in the show. This is an example where the show runners made a major change in the show that made the show better while not deviating from the theme of the game.

The second game's theme is the circle of violence and Revenge, i.e. Joel kills Abby's dad, Abby Kills Joel, Ellie Kills Abby's friends, etc. The first few episodes were good for the most part. The show lost some emotion from the story due to placing certain flashbacks in these early episodes and changing some timeline history. However, without the next seasons finishing their vision, I could live with those changes for now. The major problem I have with season 2 is Ellie's time and actions in Seattle. As smugpugmug stated, in the game she is a bloodthirsty monster. We see her decent into darkness happen over the course of the three days. The show condenses way to much into too few episodes and in return we are left with a product that does not dive into the characters or show Seattle as the battle zone between feuding groups like in the game. The season should have been 2-3 more episodes with each day in Seattle being an extra 20-30 mins to flesh out Ellie's violent nature and foreshadow more about the WLF taking down Fedra and their war with the Seraphites. Also, make Ellie competent. Why is she losing a 1v1 to a stalker in episode 1.

I am the only one in my group who watched the show that also played the game. Everyone else gave it a positive review and is very excited for season 3. I am much more neutral on it and I'll rewatch season 2 again. I would recommend to either play the second game or watch the cutscenes on Youtube over watching season 2.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Star Wars has expanded into way much more than just Luke and Leia. If you are trapped with just those characters only..... you are missing out on a lot of amazing content.... including some amazing animated series.

Clone Wars.... Rebels.... Bad Batch.... Mandalorian... Ahsoka

Anime has been having a renaissance moment. It has been more popular than ever in the last decades. Korean and Japanese content is getting American recognition with streaming shows, K-pop bands, video games all surging in popularity. I have friends who are obsessed with BTS.

Historically Disney has not been super strong in the gaming arena which is likely why they are underperforming with the Gen Z obsessed male gamers..... Be interesting to see if the push to expand with recent Star Wars titles and Tron coming if helps with that demo.

Blaming strong female characters for scaring away the males is a sexist and lazy trope.....

Totally misinterpreted what i am trying to say. Not blaming strong female characters. I love having strong female characters. I simply do not think they should create strong female characters at the expense of the male characters. Mikassa from AoT is one of my favorites. Her strength is not at the expense of one of the male characters. Where dinsey has it wrong is they almost feel like they need to correct years of the weak female victim who needed to be rescued by a man by turning the man into the one who needs to be rescued by hos female counterpart. Both are wrong. Frozen 1 was great. Anime is able to create strong charcters bit not at the expense of another.
Agree SW is much more than the three LLH, bit since the movies brought them in it was used as example. Ashoka is an example of a strong female created not at the expense of another. She is fantastic, but i beleive created by Lucas, not disney.
awesome character, but created by Lucas not disney i believe.

 

[BrianL]

Totally misinterpreted what i am trying to say. Not blaming strong female characters. I love having strong female characters. I simply do not think they should create strong female characters at the expense of the male characters. Mikassa from AoT is one of my favorites. Her strength is not at the expense of one of the male characters. Where dinsey has it wrong is they almost feel like they need to correct years of the weak female victim who needed to be rescued by a man by turning the man into the one who needs to be rescued by hos female counterpart. Both are wrong. Frozen 1 was great. Anime is able to create strong charcters bit not at the expense of another.
Agree SW is much more than the three LLH, bit since the movies brought them in it was used as example. Ashoka is an example of a strong female created not at the expense of another. She is fantastic, but i beleive created by Lucas, not disney.
awesome character, but created by Lucas not disney i believe.

But, which male characters specifically have been denegrated, and to prop up a female character? People say that, but I just don't see it. SImply needing to be rescued is not a character flaw, nor does it diminish someone. Disney has certianly mad eplenty of movies too where the male is still the primary hero, so I don't get what the issue is.

Ahsoka was generally created by Dave Filoni, though when he worked cloesly with George at Lucasfilm at the time. Dave is still there and is the steward of the character (and most things Star Wars too).

 

[OhDannyBoy]

But, which male characters specifically have been denegrated, and specifically to prop up a female character? People say that, but I just don't see it. SImply needing to be rescued is not a character flaw, nor does it diminish someone. Disney has certianly mad eplenty of movies too where the male is still the primary hero, so I don't get what the issue is.

Ahsoka was generally created by Dave Filoni, though when he worked cloesly with George at Lucasfilm at the time. Dave is still there and is the steward of the character (and most things Star Wars too).

Luke Skywalker for one to prop up Rey, the invincible because she's an awesome girl boss and doesn't require a character arch. She's just awesome at everything. And Luke is just and old angry drunk man from a different time.

 

[Suger Mag]

Luke Skywalker for one to prop up Rey, the invincible because she's an awesome girl boss and doesn't require a character arch. She's just awesome at everything. And Luke is just and old angry drunk man from a different time.

that is often a trend with males... especially when life does not go their way and they suffer issues... they get old, angry and bitter... why should Luke and Han be any different?

In the comics after the OT.... Luke has seen his wife and family die by the hands of his nephew.... in the movie he has seen his Jedi order fall apart at essentially again his nephew.... why shouldn't he be angry... Same with Han who has lost his son.... do you actually think they just always are happy happy despite their tragedies?

Oh well, my love is dead, and so are my kids.... and everything I tried to build gone, but hey the Force is with me. Lets go Rey I will lead the way....

 

[OhDannyBoy]

that is often a trend with males... especially when life does not go their way and they suffer issues... they get old, angry and bitter... why should Luke and Han be any different?

In the comics Luke has seen his wife and family die.... in the movie he has seen his Jedi order fall apart at his hands.... why shouldn't he be angry... Same with Han.... do you actually think they just always are happy happy?

Oh well, my love is dead and everything I tried to build gone, but hey the Force is with me

I don't know, maybe because they are the icons of a multi-billion dollar franchise and turning them into pathetic sad old men is going to alienate the the built in multi billion dollar fandom that has looked up to them for decades?

 

[Suger Mag]

that

I don't, maybe because they are the icons of a franchise and turning them into pathetic sad old men is going to alienate the the built in multi billion dollar fandom that has looked up to them for decades?

that was the story that was written. It is not like this came totally out of thin air. Much was taken from the comics and the books.

It is too bad some people are alienated.

 

[BrianL]

Luke Skywalker for one to prop up Rey, the invincible because she's an awesome girl boss and doesn't require a character arch. She's just awesome at everything. And Luke is just and old angry drunk man from a different time.

That's such a misread though. Luke wasn't angry (and certianly not drunk!), he was despondent. He removed himself from the equation after his failure - something right out of the Jedi playbook (see, Obi-Wan, Yoda). He also stepped up big time when the time was right, saved everyone, and went out a hero. Maybe that didn't go down the way people wanted it to, but that's still what happened. Rey can't mount the rescue if Luke doesn't do his thing. Han slipped back into comfortable habits, but he was still out there kicking butt and being the leader/father figure that Rey needed. Also, Poe's pretty cool. Finn did kind of get the short straw, but whatcha gonna do? Rey is also not "aswesome at everything" - she's a good fighter, but she's terribly lonely and fixated on the loss of her parents. The lesson that she has to learn is who she is. Fighting isn't everything! It's all that seems to matter for some though.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

that

that was the story that was written. Oh well, too bad some people are alienated.

Yeah, the ones that pay to see the movies.

 

[fatmanatee]

Very excited to be relitigating this for the 100th time here.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

. Rey can't mount the rescue if Luke doesn't do his thing.

I rest my case.

 

[Suger Mag]

Yeah, the ones that pay to see the movies.

lets not pretend this has all been an utter flop with no money made. Star Wars is an incredibly successful franchise.

Sadly fandom has become incredibly toxic and negative. If the OT came out today it would be hated.

 

[BrianL]

I don't know, maybe because they are the icons of a multi-billion dollar franchise and turning them into pathetic sad old men is going to alienate the the built in multi billion dollar fandom that has looked up to them for decades?

They ARE old men because of the time that passed. The actors did age. They are hardly pathetic and sad though (at least not sad in that sense).

One thing I will say that the movies could have done better is indicate how much time it had actually been. Luke was only on that planet for like 5 years. To the audience it feels like it's been 40, because that's the last time we saw him, and that's how much Mark Hammil had aged, but really, this all happens in a short timespan. Han hadn't lost the Falcon for all that long either. In the grand scheme of things, it was a blip. I sometimes feel like if the movie spelled that out better if people would have accepted it more easily.

 

[BrianL]

I rest my case.

So a female character isn't allowed to do ANYTHING at all? They can't participate in the action? Only the big strong men can rescue anybody! Why even have women...at all?

Luke taught Rey. He helped her. She also taught him. He stepped up and saved the remainder of the Resistance, enabling them to escape out the back to be picked up by Rey and Chewie. They all worked together - what's wrong with that?

 

[BrianL]

Very excited to be relitigating this for the 100th time here.

Welcome to the DIS. Would you rather talk about how Test Track 1.0 was better than 2.0 was better than 3.0? MuppetVision? Frozen Ever After? It's all good.