Disney News, Discussion & an Element of Fun - 2024 Edition

[soniam]

Another Disney forum that is full of insiders that have predicted things correctly in the past is saying that even if Muppets is safe and Animation Courtyard goes, Muppets is still earmarked for future development. Aka, down the line it's leaving no matter what.

It really does stink but at the same time Disney as a company has proven that they'll remove whatever attractions they deem fit, even if they're still very popular.

Still frantically looking for DVC availability during Xmas during our son’s college break

 

[reddog21]

You have a point. We're nobody's. We're only the CUSTOMERS who pay for everything. So we should just shut up, fork over our money, and not complain about poor treatment.

Ask Sears & Roebuck how that worked out for them. Or Kodak, Radio Shack, or Toys R Us

In the US yes the consumer is very much a nobody. Did you just move in, welcome!

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

The Cars one annoys me the most. Probably because I just don’t like the idea.

I'm willing to wait and see how it turns out. I know the Tom Sawyer island area is not very popular.

And I guess The Muppets aren't eating the crowds much, either, but I just have a strong affinity to that IP!

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Yep, if you've been a fan of current Disney long enough then something they change is going to make you upset. With all that supposed space available, they're taking down things that don't benefit the bottom line any longer because it costs them a lot less. They're banking that you'll come back because you love Disney enough to move past what they're replacing. There's only so much of that people are willing to look past.

Epic Universe is looking more and more appealing for our next Florida trip. I can go to Disneyland to get my Disney fix.

Well, we usually do week-long vacations in Orlando. I'm looking forward to experiencing Epic but I'm not going to spend a whole week there out of anger, lol.

I mean, I would be very sad but I still wouldn't be "angry" if Muppet Vision 3D was taken away. The world is too big and there's a lot to see to spend time seething

 

[1lilspark]

Any guesses to what month dinosaur will close

I would bet dinosaur lives till at least early 2025 with dinorama area closing sometime between October-December

Any mumblings on if they’ll still close Big Thunder for a refurbishment? Holding out hop for my youngest that it’s open through our trip in October!

I think it’s due for an extended refurbishment maybe we get the projection maps

I think BTTMR will become the IP. They are always talking about making it into a project, possibly a movie or TV show. Westerns are such a hard-sell these days, but it if they lean into the spooky aspects I think it could work.

BTTMRR technically is considered SEA IP

Anyone care to guess when all these new lands will open in Orlando

I know they said within the next 5 years but if there doing the cars phase first and then villans and there next even starting cars until next year, no way is villains opening within 5 year

Prediction phase one of Pueblo Esperanza opens late 2026/early 2027 with Indy and other elements of phase two opening late 2027 or in 2028 for DAK 30th

If cars starts early 2025 construction like planned I can see that happening in the 28-29 range

Monsters and Villains it depends when shovels hit the dirt though the latter could quietly be getting worked on backstage (I definitely see a major progress report on it when Destiny does its media cruise in November 2025)

 

[StarCruzer]

If they do get rid of Muppets 3D...I wonder which CM will end up taking home the legendary key under the mat

 

[jade1]

Seems if Muppets is going they should have incorporated Star Tours and Muppets area into GE.

 

[jade1]

Glad to see WDW starting to build again.

Not the happiest to see existing areas being reworked though, esp when they have 10,000 acres still unused, 10,000 built and 10,000 as wildlife. But do realize they have constraints on the parks to work around.

 

[ThereYouSeeHer]

Long article. Some of it is below...

Muppet*Vision 3D Should Be a National Heritage Site

Note: This story was originally published on July 17, 2024. On August 10 at Disney’s biannual D23 Expo, Chairperson of Parks and Resorts Josh D’Amaro announced plans to open a Monsters, Inc.–themed land called Monstropolis in Disney Hollywood Studios park at Walt Disney World, with construction starting in 2025. On August 13, the Wrap reported that Disney pulled concept art at the last minute before the presentation that would have more explicitly hinted at Monstropolis replacing the current Muppet-themed area of the park. In light of this information that places Muppet*Vision 3D under imminent threat of annihilation, we are republishing this story.

Oh, also, if anyone at Disney is reading this: Right now, DHS has a crowd-management problem. There are not enough fully operational attractions, not enough all-ages attractions, and not enough streetmosphere performers or shows to adequately handle the park’s crowds. There is simply not enough to do. As it stands, this is a half-day park. Destroying a great all-ages attraction to build another coaster will do very little to solve these problems. It makes more sense for you to build Monstropolis in an unused area like the Launch Bay or Animation Courtyard, even if it costs a bit more. You’ll end up with two attractions instead of one, which is better stretching of your dollar in the long run. Okay, thanks for hearing me out. Love your work.

Sounds cute. But why is any of that historically significant?​

For all its Muppety silliness and mirth, Muppet*Vision 3D is also a site of remembrance, and maybe even pilgrimage, because it was the final project Jim Henson directed before his death at age 53 in 1990. It was also one of his final performances as Kermit, as well as the Swedish Chef and Waldorf, the latter of which is rendered animatronically in the audience, roasting the show from his usual opera box. It’s already accepted practice for landmarks related to great artists and writers to be registered as official historic places, from Walden Pond to the Florida Keys’ Hemingway House to James Baldwin’s Upper West Side apartment building to, naturally, Walt Disney’s childhood home and the small garage that he used as his first makeshift animation studio.

How would this even work?​

This is the tricky part. It will already be an uphill battle to convince the government that Muppet*Vision 3D is worth being marked for the National Register of Historic Places; generally, although not officially, a property should be at least 50 years old, and this one is 33. I do think Henson’s contributions to 20th-century education and entertainment qualify this property, which fuses his art and his legacy, as being worthy of exceptional status. A case could even be made that this nomination would bring the National Register of Historic Places positive press and public interest, since it would be such a high-profile and widely appealing entrant (versus yet another old church or schoolhouse).

The real challenge will be in convincing Disney that this would serve the company. The owners of a property don’t have to be the group that files its nomination with the register … but they do have ultimate veto power against a nomination. How can we convince Disney that this would be beneficial, even if it doesn’t directly translate into profits?

➼ Point out how this helps its “legacy” branding: Disney is a legacy media brand and loves to play into that. For example: its sepia-toned 100th-anniversary production logo of Steamboat Willie and the “Partners” statue in a number of its parks showing Walt and Mickey holding hands. As long as it can coast on legacy, or at least point back to it, it has some wiggle room to do things that are less creatively ambitious and more nakedly cynical in the present. The Walt Disney Family Museum in San Francisco is another site where Disney reinforces its cultural legacy, despite not owning or operating it. It’s an example — like the National Register — of how an outside organization can symbiotically serve Disney’s reputation and brand identity.

➼ Appeal to its hunger for prestige: Disney has long chased prestige in nearly every sector in which it operates, from the lofty classical aspirations of Fantasia, to its courting of Julie Taymor in their theatrical division, to its numerous Oscar nominations over the years. This extends to its Parks and Resorts division, where, under Michael Eisner, it sought out acclaimed architects with distinct aesthetics to design its properties. To have an attraction recognized by the National Register of Historic Places would be to give one of its theme parks a true imprimatur of cultural significance in a sort of high-falutin’, self-flattering way.

➼ Convince Disney it’s a cheap park improvement: Disney’s Hollywood Studios park is in a bit of a tough position at the moment. Crowd dispersal is a huge issue, with new attractions like Toy Story Land and Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway not adequately eating up massive influxes of crowds, particularly when the malfunction-prone Rise of the Resistance is down. The Star Wars area, Galaxy’s Edge, is not fleshed out as lavishly as was planned, because so much of it was kept behind the Galactic Starcruiser paywall, which is now closed. The media cycle surrounding the registry of one of the park’s least-busy attractions as a site of National Historic significance would be an extremely cheap and cost-effective way for Disney to give the park a boost: Host an unveiling ceremony for the plaque; perhaps air a live ABC special surrounding it; launch new, nostalgic, ’90s-tinged merch to tie into it; and maybe introduce a “streetmosphere” Muppets show in the courtyard to eat up crowds. All for millions less than it would take to actually build a new attraction or overhaul an existing one.

I’m scared that the Muppets are currently in a hostage situation at Disney. I’m scared this very unique attraction, which has nothing quite like it in the whole of America, will get a cheap and easy reskin as an Encanto singalong show or an Inside Out 2 revue. With the Muppets, Henson created a cast of characters as central to American pop culture as those from Looney Tunes, Peanuts, or Disney, and Muppet*Vision 3D is like their Sistine Chapel. If anyone reading this works at Disney or knows who I should be writing letters to in the government to make this happen, that would be great.

 

[LKing]

Can anyone tell me why is there a D23 in Brazil this year

I fully expected them to announce a new park in South America.

When Bob Weis spoke, he mentioned a project in Australia that didn't pan out. That was before my time on this board. Does anyone know what was being planned in Australia?

Regarding Coco being loved in CA.... It isn't that we love Coco, it is that we are starved for any type of parade-type entertainment in that park. It is only there for a short time every year so it is a novelty.

Not sure if they would get rid of Tom Sawyer's Island at Disneyland because it is the stage for Fantasmic. Now that Critter Country is changing to Bayou Country, I think they should convert Tom Sawyer's Island to 100 Acre Woods. It wouldn't take much effort. They could use existing structures and covert them into the homes of Piglet, Eeyore, Kanga, Rabbit and Pooh. It would be a great place for Pooh character meet & greets.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Long article. Some of it is below...

Muppet*Vision 3D Should Be a National Heritage Site

Note: This story was originally published on July 17, 2024. On August 10 at Disney’s biannual D23 Expo, Chairperson of Parks and Resorts Josh D’Amaro announced plans to open a Monsters, Inc.–themed land called Monstropolis in Disney Hollywood Studios park at Walt Disney World, with construction starting in 2025. On August 13, the Wrap reported that Disney pulled concept art at the last minute before the presentation that would have more explicitly hinted at Monstropolis replacing the current Muppet-themed area of the park. In light of this information that places Muppet*Vision 3D under imminent threat of annihilation, we are republishing this story.

Oh, also, if anyone at Disney is reading this: Right now, DHS has a crowd-management problem. There are not enough fully operational attractions, not enough all-ages attractions, and not enough streetmosphere performers or shows to adequately handle the park’s crowds. There is simply not enough to do. As it stands, this is a half-day park. Destroying a great all-ages attraction to build another coaster will do very little to solve these problems. It makes more sense for you to build Monstropolis in an unused area like the Launch Bay or Animation Courtyard, even if it costs a bit more. You’ll end up with two attractions instead of one, which is better stretching of your dollar in the long run. Okay, thanks for hearing me out. Love your work.

Sounds cute. But why is any of that historically significant?​

For all its Muppety silliness and mirth, Muppet*Vision 3D is also a site of remembrance, and maybe even pilgrimage, because it was the final project Jim Henson directed before his death at age 53 in 1990. It was also one of his final performances as Kermit, as well as the Swedish Chef and Waldorf, the latter of which is rendered animatronically in the audience, roasting the show from his usual opera box. It’s already accepted practice for landmarks related to great artists and writers to be registered as official historic places, from Walden Pond to the Florida Keys’ Hemingway House to James Baldwin’s Upper West Side apartment building to, naturally, Walt Disney’s childhood home and the small garage that he used as his first makeshift animation studio.

Henson is a figure we as a nation can agree is one of the most culturally significant creators of the 20th century. His Muppets are as timeless as Disney’s own inventions, and Sesame Street plays an outsize role in the history of American education and broadcasting. He’s as worthy of a landmark as any of our great auteurs. With the Muppets, Henson invented an entirely new genre born out of centuries-old traditions of puppetry. Muppetry is a great American art form. Like jazz!

Also, working with Disney kinda sorta might have killed him, and his death shall not be in vain!

Wait, what?​

Muppet*Vision 3D was just one of many Muppet attractions that Michael Eisner had planned for MGM Studios when it first opened in 1989. At the time, Henson was in negotiations with Disney for a $150 million acquisition of Jim Henson Productions, which would have also locked Henson into a 15-year creative contract with the company. As the new year began, Henson filmed the attraction, as well as a The Muppets at Walt Disney World TV special, all while continuing negotiations with Disney. Between media appearances, recording sessions, and negotiations, Henson fell ill but decided to push through it until he was hospitalized with breathing issues. He died on May 16, 1990, due to organ dysfunction from untreated strep throat. His close friend and longtime collaborator Frank Oz told the Guardian in 2021, “The Disney deal is probably what killed Jim. It made him sick.” According to Oz, “Eisner was trying to get Sesame Street, too, which Jim wouldn’t allow. But Jim was not a dealer, he was an artist, and it was destroying him, it really was.”

That’s so sad.​

He was too pure for this cruel, capitalist world. While we’re on the subject, nothing will ruin your day quite like watching Henson’s memorial service.

How would this even work?​

This is the tricky part. It will already be an uphill battle to convince the government that Muppet*Vision 3D is worth being marked for the National Register of Historic Places; generally, although not officially, a property should be at least 50 years old, and this one is 33. I do think Henson’s contributions to 20th-century education and entertainment qualify this property, which fuses his art and his legacy, as being worthy of exceptional status. A case could even be made that this nomination would bring the National Register of Historic Places positive press and public interest, since it would be such a high-profile and widely appealing entrant (versus yet another old church or schoolhouse).

The real challenge will be in convincing Disney that this would serve the company. The owners of a property don’t have to be the group that files its nomination with the register … but they do have ultimate veto power against a nomination. How can we convince Disney that this would be beneficial, even if it doesn’t directly translate into profits?

➼ Point out how this helps its “legacy” branding: Disney is a legacy media brand and loves to play into that. For example: its sepia-toned 100th-anniversary production logo of Steamboat Willie and the “Partners” statue in a number of its parks showing Walt and Mickey holding hands. As long as it can coast on legacy, or at least point back to it, it has some wiggle room to do things that are less creatively ambitious and more nakedly cynical in the present. The Walt Disney Family Museum in San Francisco is another site where Disney reinforces its cultural legacy, despite not owning or operating it. It’s an example — like the National Register — of how an outside organization can symbiotically serve Disney’s reputation and brand identity.

➼ Appeal to its hunger for prestige: Disney has long chased prestige in nearly every sector in which it operates, from the lofty classical aspirations of Fantasia, to its courting of Julie Taymor in their theatrical division, to its numerous Oscar nominations over the years. This extends to its Parks and Resorts division, where, under Michael Eisner, it sought out acclaimed architects with distinct aesthetics to design its properties. To have an attraction recognized by the National Register of Historic Places would be to give one of its theme parks a true imprimatur of cultural significance in a sort of high-falutin’, self-flattering way.

➼ Convince Disney it’s a cheap park improvement: Disney’s Hollywood Studios park is in a bit of a tough position at the moment. Crowd dispersal is a huge issue, with new attractions like Toy Story Land and Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway not adequately eating up massive influxes of crowds, particularly when the malfunction-prone Rise of the Resistance is down. The Star Wars area, Galaxy’s Edge, is not fleshed out as lavishly as was planned, because so much of it was kept behind the Galactic Starcruiser paywall, which is now closed. The media cycle surrounding the registry of one of the park’s least-busy attractions as a site of National Historic significance would be an extremely cheap and cost-effective way for Disney to give the park a boost: Host an unveiling ceremony for the plaque; perhaps air a live ABC special surrounding it; launch new, nostalgic, ’90s-tinged merch to tie into it; and maybe introduce a “streetmosphere” Muppets show in the courtyard to eat up crowds. All for millions less than it would take to actually build a new attraction or overhaul an existing one.

I’m scared that the Muppets are currently in a hostage situation at Disney. I’m scared this very unique attraction, which has nothing quite like it in the whole of America, will get a cheap and easy reskin as an Encanto singalong show or an Inside Out 2 revue. With the Muppets, Henson created a cast of characters as central to American pop culture as those from Looney Tunes, Peanuts, or Disney, and Muppet*Vision 3D is like their Sistine Chapel. If anyone reading this works at Disney or knows who I should be writing letters to in the government to make this happen, that would be great.

I know this doesn't have anything to do with the Muppets or the show but the mention of streetmosphere in this article made me go....bring back the Citizens of Hollywood. Those guys rule and deserve to be in HS. They added so much to the park.

 

[disney-inspired]

I fully expected them to announce a new park in South America.

When Bob Weis spoke, he mentioned a project in Australia that didn't pan out. That was before my time on this board. Does anyone know what was being planned in Australia?

Regarding CoCo being loved in CA.... It isn't that we love CoCo, it is that we are starved for any type of parade-type entertainment in that park. It is only there for a short time every year so it is a novelty.

Not sure if they would get rid of Tom Sawyer's Island at Disneyland because it is the stage for Fantasmic. Now that Critter Country is changing to Bayou Country, I think they should convert Tom Sawyer's Island to 100 Acre Woods. It wouldn't take much effort. They could use existing structures and covert them into the homes of Piglet, Eeyore, Kanga, Rabbit and Pooh. It would be a great place for Pooh character meet & greets.

No, Coco is definitely loved by us in CA.

 

[soniam]

No, Coco is definitely loved by us in CA.

Coco is the culture of many Mexican Americans in Southern California, so it’s definitely relatable and loved. Whereas, Florida has more immigrants from Cuba, Latin America, and South America. It would do well but not as much.

 

[chiburple]

Coco is the culture of many Mexican Americans in Southern California, so it’s definitely relatable and loved. Whereas, Florida has more immigrants from Cuba, Latin America, and South America. It would do well but not as much.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I always felt like Coco was a beloved movie, regardless of ethnic background. Maybe not Frozen level, but I would say, at least as popular as Encanto, if not more. Just a feeling though… I don’t have any evidence to base this on other than my own feelings and conversations.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

Coco is the culture of many Mexican Americans in Southern California, so it’s definitely relatable and loved. Whereas, Florida has more immigrants from Cuba, Latin America, and South America. It would do well but not as much.

Coco deserves more at Disney World. I love Coco. Make some space behind Mexico at Epcot and put a great coco ride. Re-theme three caballeros and make it Coco. Even include the Three Caballeros in the ride concept and have them playing instruments also.

Also, Coco blows away Encanto in terms of movie and feelings. Encanto is a just a cool song about Bruno that I can't stand lol. It has the Lin Manuel popularity effect. Maybe I am being harsh about Encanto but I just don't see the appeal.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Maybe I’m wrong, but I always felt like Coco was a beloved movie, regardless of ethnic background. Maybe not Frozen level, but I would say, at least as popular as Encanto, if not more. Just a feeling though… I don’t have any evidence to base this on other than my own feelings and conversations.

I agree. I'm not Latino but Coco is one of my favorite Pixar movies. It's the last Pixar movie that I thought was truly exceptional. And I do love it way more than Frozen, a movie that I would probably give a C+ on a traditional grading scale.

 

[pinkxray]

I agree. I'm not Latino but Coco is one of my favorite Pixar movies. It's the last Pixar movie that I thought was truly exceptional. And I do love it way more than Frozen, a movie that I would probably give a C+ on a traditional grading scale.

Same.

I don’t really enjoy Encanto. I don’t like the songs and don’t really care about anyone of the characters.

Coco is awesome. Such a beautiful movie. My kids and I watch it at least once a month.

 

[BrianL]

Maybe I’m wrong, but I always felt like Coco was a beloved movie, regardless of ethnic background. Maybe not Frozen level, but I would say, at least as popular as Encanto, if not more. Just a feeling though… I don’t have any evidence to base this on other than my own feelings and conversations.

Well, of course that's true, but it's also true that those with Mexican heritage have a particular affinity for it. The movie is a flat masterpiece for anybody though.

 

[Dznefreek]

World Heritage Site

Sorry but Muppets (as much as I like them) do not belong with these other sites.

 

[disney-inspired]

Maybe I’m wrong, but I always felt like Coco was a beloved movie, regardless of ethnic background. Maybe not Frozen level, but I would say, at least as popular as Encanto, if not more. Just a feeling though… I don’t have any evidence to base this on other than my own feelings and conversations.

I love Coco and Encanto, both are wonderful movies. I can relate to both families.
Do not retheme 3 Caballeros! Combining the two in one ride wouldn't make sense as they are from different time periods. I grew up watching 3 Caballeros on VHS.

Coco deserves more at Disney World. I love Coco. Make some space behind Mexico at Epcot and put a great coco ride. Re-theme three caballeros and make it Coco. Even include the Three Caballeros in the ride concept and have them playing instruments also.

Also, Coco blows away Encanto in terms of movie and feelings. Encanto is a just a cool song about Bruno that I can't stand lol. It has the Lin Manuel popularity effect. Maybe I am being harsh about Encanto but I just don't see the appeal.

I also don't agree that Coco 'blows away' Encanto. They are different stories but both relate to a complicated family dynamic which is so accurate in Latino families.
My sister and I relate a lot to the Madrigal sisters; we totally see some similar things in our own family.

Both Coco and Encanto made me cry but I see them as complementing each other.