Disappointing Changes at BWV/Boardwalk area

[crisi]

Sorry, I'll try to stay on topic.

Personally, I blame the DDP as well as a bunch of this other stuff on a management philosophy I don't think is good for my relationship with Disney (I was going to say "bad management" but really, on a business level, its only bad if it means less profit - and if they can replace me at a margin profit of say $100 with five people that all have a marginal profit of $22 - they do better in the end). I think the DDP as well as a lot of the other cutbacks are symptoms of Disney going for a mass market volume operation. Mass market volume operations are not good at "magic" and need to standardize and reduce waste to stay profitable. But they can cut their margins and increase profits because a smaller margin over bigger volume still means more profit.

(Now, to me, none of this makes sense. They had capacity issues already in both the restaurants and the resorts pre DDP, so they can't increase their volume by any huge multiplier - but they do have to keep growing to survive as a business - so there are obviously peices I'm missing - Disney isn't run by idiots who can't do capacity calculations and don't understand pricing being driven by demand. However, they are a big company - and that can mean making decisions independantly that end up having dependant consequences - which is one of the things I suspect is happening).

Moreover, I don't see that it clearly drains resources in the same department. I don't know that Leaping Horse reports profitability through Dining or if it reports through BW and into Resorts. If the organization is that Leaping Horse reports through BW, than I fail to see where this has much to do with the DDP at all.

 

[ceejay13]

We were at ESPN last night and got take out. No issues at all. Also there are still a couple of sandwiches available at Leaping Horse but not the extensive variety that used to be available.

 

[Goofy's apprentice]

Few comments from a relatively new dvc'r:

We love hanging out at the BWV pool's both quiet and Luna...
have never used the food choices at the pool bar

We love ESPN but when there this November definitely noticed that the place needs a refresher. Looking very tired and we were disappointed with the service. Maybe the management has changed and the take out problems are part of that confusion. They definitely did not have enough staff.

We love staying at BWV's and do think the reduction of choice is not good. Hopefully if, individually we voice opinions they will get heard. When you are there talk to managers. They new one at BWV seemed very enthusiastic and helpful...

 

[CarnotaurDad]

Thanks ceejay13,

This is why the Internet can be a blessing and a curse. One thing can happen or be overheard and it becomes a full blown hair-pulling out episode (See also: pool temperatures).

 

[saschab]

Sorry, I'll try to stay on topic.

Personally, I blame the DDP as well as a bunch of this other stuff on a management philosophy I don't think is good for my relationship with Disney (I was going to say "bad management" but really, on a business level, its only bad if it means less profit - and if they can replace me at a margin profit of say $100 with five people that all have a marginal profit of $22 - they do better in the end). I think the DDP as well as a lot of the other cutbacks are symptoms of Disney going for a mass market volume operation. Mass market volume operations are not good at "magic" and need to standardize and reduce waste to stay profitable. But they can cut their margins and increase profits because a smaller margin over bigger volume still means more profit.

(Now, to me, none of this makes sense. They had capacity issues already in both the restaurants and the resorts pre DDP, so they can't increase their volume by any huge multiplier - but they do have to keep growing to survive as a business - so there are obviously peices I'm missing - Disney isn't run by idiots who can't do capacity calculations and don't understand pricing being driven by demand. However, they are a big company - and that can mean making decisions independantly that end up having dependant consequences - which is one of the things I suspect is happening).

Moreover, I don't see that it clearly drains resources in the same department. I don't know that Leaping Horse reports profitability through Dining or if it reports through BW and into Resorts. If the organization is that Leaping Horse reports through BW, than I fail to see where this has much to do with the DDP at all.

You've hit the nail square on the head, crisi.
Well written. DDP is blamed because it is an overt manifestation that is tied in to some extent (not the cause of) with mass marketization/volume/standardization trends.

And it does take away a bit of the "magic" from the experience.

 

[bpmorley]

When did they announce that ESPN club was closing? must have missed that one

 

[colleen costello]

All this speculating on why these things are happening is extremely interesting. But the fact that this IS happening makes me quite sad. My kids are getting older, as are DH and myself, and our joy in visiting Disney is more in the "extras" now than in just parks. Our "down days" have become our favorites and often revolve around restaurants and swimming. We LOVE spending an endless day at the pool, and being able to eat lunch RIGHT THERE. When it's a bazillion degrees in Orlando, doing that is FUN! Last time we went to OKW I was so disappointed that the menu at the pool snack bar had been reduced... Then the next day I was more disappointed to see that the Turtle Shack wasn't even OPEN!

Add to this the fact that the onsite menus ARE starting to look an awful lot alike and we will definitely be going offsite more. We enjoy everything from Pizzeria Uno to Perkins (pancakes!) and these places are all way cheaper anyway. It's just a shame to think you'll have to go offsite for variety.

Don't even get me STARTED on why they took away the butter pats that were shaped like the big "D" with Mickey heads! I will never get over THAT!

 

[KirstenB]

Colleen, I totally agree about spending the day at the pool. Actually our kids are still young, and that's why a pool day or 2 makes sense for us also. We have an 8 yr old and a 1 yr old. The 8 yr old thinks it's a huge treat to swim all day, and get to eat chicken nuggets from Goods to Go at OKW. If you have young kids, being able to get them a quick bite to eat of "kid foods" makes the day much more fun for all of us.

 

[Desnik]

I also agree about spending the day at the pool like Colleen has stated. Why does it seem so strange that some of us like to spend a day at the pool with our kids and have an option of food to eat in the immediate area? It's OK that some of us aren't happy about it. Some seem to be implying that we shouldn't have a complaint or problem with this. I think going into AP at SSR, and RF at WLV is completly different than having to walk on the BW in your bathing suit with your kids in tow. I have no problem with the set up at SSR and WLV, or BCV. Anyone know if the place near the SAB is not going to be serving food anymore either?

 

[Sammie]

At SSR when the new grandstand pool opens they will have food available pool side.

 

[Sammie]

Personally my take on all of this, is that Disney is in the business to make money and make money the best way they can. That will not mean that in doing so they will please everyone. Probably most Disney fanatics and DVCers won't like the changes, because they liked it the old way. But the old way, did not keep Disney booked year round.

If Disney has come up with a formula that will keep rooms booked and restaurants booked year round, then that is the way it's going to be. They might lose a few regulars in the process, but if for every regular they lose they can replace them with 2 new customers they will be happy.

 

[Synonymous]

But the old way, did not keep Disney booked year round./QUOTE]

Huh? What are you basing THAT on? Cutting service and food quality has somehow brought in more guests? Apart from the tourism drop after 9/11, the parks weren't exactly struggling.

 

[tjkraz]

At SSR when the new grandstand pool opens they will have food available pool side.

Are you sure about that?

Personally my take on all of this, is that Disney is in the business to make money and make money the best way they can. That will not mean that in doing so they will please everyone.

The problem I have here is that there's a fine line between a resort revenue streamand an amenity. How much revenue does a resort's Bell Services staff generate? How much revenue does a pool complex generate? How much revenue does a resort earn when they put balloons in your room to celebrate a birthday?

Whether they are making a little money, just breaking even or losing a few dollars on the poolside dining, it's an amenity that many have come to expect from a resort in Disney's "Deluxe" category.

So Leaping Horse has to throw out 30 hot dogs per day. Big deal! What do we suppose Disney's wholesale rate is on a hot dog? Ten cents?

To answer some of crisi's comments, no I don't know exactly how WDW Dining is organized, but I think reasonable to assume these mandates are being passed-down from some executive level. How else do we explain things like the standardized kids' menus (yuch), and apparent elimination of carryout and poolside food throughout Walt Disney World?

As for DDP, I know I'm just repeating myself but I think the financial drain it has collectively placed on the restaurants is leading to some of these ludicrous decisions. Crisi claims that the restaurants haven't displayed a noteworthy increase in diners since the DDP was introduced. Every single DDP trip report seems to demonstrate weekly savings of hundreds of dollars per family. While I'm sure there ARE people who end up losing money on the DDP for a variety of reasons, I refuse to believe that those folks even come close to matching the number who save under the DDP.

So if you've got the same number of diners paying less money for their food (or getting more food for roughly equal money), clearly the revenues are taking a hit.

There's a part of me that wants to believe that someone very high on the dining food chain (get it?) is being forced into these types of budget cuts, yet he/she knows that guest response will be overwhelmingly negative. (That's not to say that there will be a huge outcry, rather there's just no reason for anyone to be happy about these moves.) The dining folks may be RELYING on guest response to get some of these moves reversed.

I've read reports that the awful kids' menus may be on the way out and my fingers are certainly crossed. I will just say this: My dining-out budget for our upcoming trip is as high as it has ever been and I hope that some of these issues straighten themselves out over the next couple of months. If not, then I will not hesitate to start eating off-site or in our room, and upon my return I will certainly let Disney know how much money they lost over our 8 days at the World. Maybe that will play some small role in getting these new policies reversed.

 

[dumbo71]

Are you sure about that?



The problem I have here is that there's a fine line between a resort revenue streamand an amenity. How much revenue does a resort's Bell Services staff generate? How much revenue does a pool complex generate? How much revenue does a resort earn when they put balloons in your room to celebrate a birthday?

Whether they are making a little money, just breaking even or losing a few dollars on the poolside dining, it's an amenity that many have come to expect from a resort in Disney's "Deluxe" category.

So Leaping Horse has to throw out 30 hot dogs per day. Big deal! What do we suppose Disney's wholesale rate is on a hot dog? Ten cents?

To answer some of crisi's comments, no I don't know exactly how WDW Dining is organized, but I think reasonable to assume these mandates are being passed-down from some executive level. How else do we explain things like the standardized kids' menus (yuch), and apparent elimination of carryout and poolside food throughout Walt Disney World?

As for DDP, I know I'm just repeating myself but I think the financial drain it has collectively placed on the restaurants is leading to some of these ludicrous decisions. Crisi claims that the restaurants haven't displayed a noteworthy increase in diners since the DDP was introduced. Every single DDP trip report seems to demonstrate weekly savings of hundreds of dollars per family. While I'm sure there ARE people who end up losing money on the DDP for a variety of reasons, I refuse to believe that those folks even come close to matching the number who save under the DDP.

So if you've got the same number of diners paying less money for their food (or getting more food for roughly equal money), clearly the revenues are taking a hit.

There's a part of me that wants to believe that someone very high on the dining food chain (get it?) is being forced into these types of budget cuts, yet he/she knows that guest response will be overwhelmingly negative. (That's not to say that there will be a huge outcry, rather there's just no reason for anyone to be happy about these moves.) The dining folks may be RELYING on guest response to get some of these moves reversed.

I've read reports that the awful kids' menus may be on the way out and my fingers are certainly crossed. I will just say this: My dining-out budget for our upcoming trip is as high as it has ever been and I hope that some of these issues straighten themselves out over the next couple of months. If not, then I will not hesitate to start eating off-site or in our room, and upon my return I will certainly let Disney know how much money they lost over our 8 days at the World. Maybe that will play some small role in getting these new policies reversed.

 

[dumbo71]

Personally my take on all of this, is that Disney is in the business to make money and make money the best way they can. That will not mean that in doing so they will please everyone. Probably most Disney fanatics and DVCers won't like the changes, because they liked it the old way. But the old way, did not keep Disney booked year round.

If Disney has come up with a formula that will keep rooms booked and restaurants booked year round, then that is the way it's going to be. They might lose a few regulars in the process, but if for every regular they lose they can replace them with 2 new customers they will be happy.

Sammie,

I can't disagree with this. I'm just wondering if you think this is a good thing?

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Food by the pool has been a standard at the DVC resorts. Where does one get food now if they want to be by the pool??


All these horrible changes really make my blood boil.

Its not only a standard at just DVC resorts but just about any other resort I have ever been to.

Every small service that is provided is not going to bring in endless amounts of revenue, but each of these small services adds up to making a better overall experience.

You start looking at each service totally independent of each other and you are going to start to have big problems.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

For those of you that are upset about this, why bother even going to Disney if it can't be exactly the way you want it?

I want an oompa loompa and I want it now.

you have to be kidding, right? No one is saying this makes or breaks their love of Disney. Its something that is concerning, plain and simple

I dont think food options poolside is something only very picky or spoiled people feel should be an option.

Its pretty standard operation-and for them to be looking to save a few bucks by not offering it is very concerning and you have to ask yourself why

you wouldnt think that amount of money saved would be of significance to Disney and if it is then there really are bigger problems

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Stock prices respond more to earnings than anything else. Cut costs (or raise prices)...earnings go up...investors happy.

The problem is that if the reduced services / higher prices begin to alienate your customers, revenues will inevitably decrease due to dissatisfaction with the product.

It's a delicate balance.

and if dissatifaction sets in its very difficlut to get the customers to come back in the future even if the problems which originally caused the dissatisfaction are rectified

 

[jdg345]

Oh how true!!! I remember how disappointed I was when I began checking out the menu on the wall, and NO ROLLER COASTER MELTDOWNS!!!! I think I went into a "mental meltdown". What did I have; gosh I can't remember. I guess it didn't make that much of an impression on me. Oh yes; some Rasberry thing???

Never had one of those ... what's in the Roller Coaster Meltdown?

 

[TDC Nala]

My biggest disappointment with Leaping Libations was the change in the alcohol drinks. No more roller coasters!!! (Although the bartender did make us one but what happens when a new bartender comes along and has no idea what you're talking about!)

Cyn

The drinks have been standardized, too. All the resort bars seem to be keeping the same beverages and mixers in stock, nothing special to each individual bar.