Disappointing Changes at BWV/Boardwalk area

[Mich Mouse]

Could it be only a seasonal and temporary change? There is not as much activity at the pools this time of year.

I definitely agree that BWV would be even better if it had a small food court, but still, even without that option, BWV is still our favorite.

For those of you that are upset about this, why bother even going to Disney if it can't be exactly the way you want it?

I want an oompa loompa and I want it now.

 

[JimMIA]

Jim,

I have never gotten a nasty gram from DVC. Please don't confuse me with someone else.

Dumbo

Sorry, I was speaking of a different Dumbo. Wait until you see the other stuff he's attributed to you! (Just kidding...)

 

[Sammie]

And I think the elimination of take-out is clearly a DDP issue. Someone that I know flat-out asked the manager at Olivias and was told that the main reason for eliminating take out was that people on the DDP were attempting to use counter service credits for what amounted to table service meals. Rather than addressing that issue, they are simply penalizing everyone

How is that a DDP issue, seems more like a greedy guest issue.

Which with so many things at Disney this type of behavior hurts all of us. If someone wants to complain to Disney about allowing that behavior to ruin it for all of us, I will be the first to sign the petition.

 

[goldilocks_63]

I noticed last trip that at OKW Turtle Shack (by Turtle pond) was closed...

and I couldn't order my favorite Chef salad anymore...

Only a chop salad (no meat).

I don't like the sameness of the menus....

and I'm one of those who do like to spend one whole day at the pool... atleast when Disney used to heat to 86 in winter.


Goldi

 

[Sammie]

Haven't you read the official DIS posting rules? All changes to food and beverage service must be blamed on the DDP, including changes to restaurants and products not covered by the dining plan.

I think the lower pool temperatures were a result of the DDP also, they had to make up the money difference somewhere.

 

[JimMIA]

What do you consider "some iteration"?

This:

"Certainly Disney did sell packages before 2005 that included dining, but it was well known that they charged premium prices for those packages and their popularity was only a fraction of what it is today."

There's actually been some sort of dining plan for years.

The "free dining" packages--which unquestionably helped bring the dining plan into the mainstream for Disney guests--was first offered just over a year ago.

Well...the actual first free munching period was a little over a year ago (Aug-Sep '05), but I think the announcement was made a number of months prior...probably around April '05. They also had free dining announced in April '06, I believe, for Aug-Sep '06, and have already announced both regular DDP and free DDP for 2007. So the program's been around for two years (or two Hurricane Seasons, if you want to get right to the heart of the Free Dining matter), and has been announced for a third year. Not a new program in my view. YMMV.

DVC members have only had access to DDP for 6 months now.

Actually, I think it was announced about this time last year that we could begin adding DDP starting January 1, 2006 for stays beginning after April 1, 2006. So yeah, we've only been eating DDP food for 8 months, but we've been booking it for 11 months (okay...11 months minus one day).

Everybody is welcome to their own take on all of this, but I don't consider the Disney Dining Plan a NEW sales promotion. In fact, a lot of people a few weeks ago were afraid it was getting kinda tired and would not be continued.

The MAIN point I was trying to address was whether or not DDP was the cause of everything from no hot dogs in the pool to global warming.

My opinion is that crisi is probably right and those who see DDP as the root cause of all evil are probably not right. I think the issue is bean counters trying to reduce inventory and cut costs -- not the Evil Empire sticking it to DVC owners.

Don't get me wrong. I think the menu standardization and cost cutting have degraded the dining experiences available at WDW, and have actually made dining offsite much more attractive than it was before.

The standardization may be helpful to folks who just want FOOD, but if you want to eat well, WDW is becoming much less attractive. It's almost like you only have to eat one dinner onsite, and everything after that is just repetition.

There are some very good restaurants offsite in the Orlando area, and some legendary restaurants an hour or so away in Tampa.

 

[tjkraz]

How is that a DDP issue, seems more like a greedy guest issue.

I agree. But as the scenario was laid-out to me (admittedly second-hand), people would walk into a table service restaurant, order items "to go", and then pitch a fit when they were charged for table service credits instead of counter service.

If someone else can come up with another logical explanation for eliminating "to go" orders at restaurants, I'm all ears. And, no, the cost of those styrofoam boxes doesn't cut it, IMO.

Whether you eat-in or take-out, you still need people to take the order and prepare the order. And I would propose that the amount of time attending to a take-out customer is much less than a dine-in customer. I don't know about others, but I always make a habit of tipping on to-go orders.

 

[keys2kingdom]

For those that think I'm crazy, well I am. However, think about this: Do you believe they will cut back food service poolside at the deluxe resorts? No, they won't. I still feel Deluxe resort cash guest receive the best treatment on WDW property. DVC owners should expect better and demand more.

Last time I checked the BWI was a Deluxe resort and they share the feature pool with BWV so Leaping Horse belongs to both of them. Those 'resort cash guests' are experiencing the same cut back as DVC owners, not saying it's right just that in this case the Deluxe resort isn't getting any better treatment than the DVC portion.

 

[Dizz42]

And don't forget, no food take out at Beaches n' Cream either - only ice cream. DH and I actually sent an inquirying (angry ) email and got a phone call back. The gentleman's response was the usual - "upper management decision", "will look into it", etc. but point is, they did call. Isn't it is amazing that a huge company like Disney would call to talk to a couple from a small town in Pennsylvania about not being able to get a burger and fries to-go? This is one little soda shop, at one resort hotel, in one area of the US in the whole big realm of their worldwide holdings. Thats pretty cool and it tells me someone HAS to be listening. So I think we should all send letters, emails, and/or call and let them know, "We're made as h--- and we're not going to take it anymore." Seriously, we should make ourselves heard. I understand the outcry was so great about the children's menu changes that they are "rethinking" that so it must work.

 

[tjkraz]

There's actually been some sort of dining plan for years.

Correct. But what is the cost differential between a Disney travel package with dining 2 years ago vs today?

(omitted stuff about nit-picking dates)

Everybody is welcome to their own take on all of this, but I don't consider the Disney Dining Plan a NEW sales promotion.

Whether you classify it as "new" or not is irrelevant. The entire thrust of your argument appears to be "well, since Disney has had a dining plan of some sort of many years, OBVIOUSLY the DDP isn't to blame for cut-backs." That's how I interpret this statement:

DDP had been around in some iteration for quite a long time before these menu standardizations and other cost-cutting activities started. I think crisi's explanation above is sound -- but I don't think blaming DDP makes any sense.

And I think that's hogwash. Just because Disney didn't implement cost-cutting moves within weeks of the DDP's introduction is no reason to dismiss it as a factor. In fact, many of the changes being discussed here have been gradually introduced. The comments I made about take-out at OKW were relayed to me probably 6 months ago. Menu changes were ongoing throughout the summer.

Any lag time between the DDP introduction and cost-cutting moves is completely irrelevant.

I've spent two years listening to people raving about how many hundreds of dollars their family saved with the DDP (comments which were nearly impossible to come by before 1/1/05.) Trying to convince me that any cost cutting moves regarding food and beverage are not related to the DDP is falling on deaf ears here.

My opinion is that crisi is probably right and those who see DDP as the root cause of all evil are probably not right.

And I think BOTH are true. I agree that crisi did a fine job of explaining the logic behind the cuts. But I also believe the cuts were NECESSITATED by the profits lost via the dining plan.

The DDP has no-doubt increased restaurant revenue streams across the board. And some of the profitability can be maintained through efficiency (i.e. if you have the capacity to serve 25% more diners with the same staff, at least you are avoiding some added expense.) But when that well runs dry, your profits start to decline. How do you get profits back up? You cut costs.

We're talking about people who report eating $70-80 worth of food in a day for which they are only paying $37.99!!!

Start a poll on the dining board and ask how many DDP purchasers had bought Disney travel packages that included their meals before 1/1/05. I'll be shocked if more than 5% of respondants had paid for such a package before the DDP was introduced.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

You know I bet offsite restaurants are salivating at the opportunity to regain some of the trade they lost to Disney. I have a feeling I'll be very disappointed the next time I go. After all the opportunity to eat food not available to you at home is one of the draws at Disney.

And now that I think about it, it wont just be the offsite restaurants that benefit...the Swolphin will probably get a bit of a bump up too.

As far as the pool bars go...I agree its highly disappointing. Those pools that are near counter service options like VWL and AKL wont have any complaints. This reminds me of the shift away from unique products to plush shops a few years back. I've pretty much quit buying souveniers because they are all the same. The last major souvenier I bought for myself was a Minnie Christmas dress back in the late 90's.

 

[Longhairbear]

We haven't stayed at BWV yet, but noticed the non menu poolside at VWL. We got some great sandwiches poolside at Coronado Springs years ago, before we joined DVC. Has their pool menu, and the other resorts' menus suffered as well?

 

[crisi]

I agree. But as the scenario was laid-out to me (admittedly second-hand), people would walk into a table service restaurant, order items "to go", and then pitch a fit when they were charged for table service credits instead of counter service.

If someone else can come up with another logical explanation for eliminating "to go" orders at restaurants, I'm all ears. And, no, the cost of those styrofoam boxes doesn't cut it, IMO.

Whether you eat-in or take-out, you still need people to take the order and prepare the order. And I would propose that the amount of time attending to a take-out customer is much less than a dine-in customer. I don't know about others, but I always make a habit of tipping on to-go orders.

That one is easy - its a capacity issue in the kitchens. The kitchens can handle full restaurants - which they are doing. They can handle full restaurants and a very small amount of takeout. But when Disney oversells the dining plan and they have guests using credits on takeout - the kitchen can't keep up. That means longer diing times in the restaurants, fewer tables turning over at night, and a Dining Plan that appears to be even MORE oversold.

If I were Disney, I'd increase the price of the dining plan by about $10 a day - it would still be a good deal, but it wouldn't be "such a good deal its impossible to loose money on it unless you skip meals." I'd sell it in limited quantities - you need to book it early, you can't get it on a last minute trip and it would sell out when restaurants reach about 60% of projected capacity, and I'd add a few more restaurants. Disney has had the plan in place for a few years, and they really haven't addressed the capacity problems of its success at all.

 

[crisi]

And I think BOTH are true. I agree that crisi did a fine job of explaining the logic behind the cuts. But I also believe the cuts were NECESSITATED by the profits lost via the dining plan.

The DDP has no-doubt increased restaurant revenue streams across the board. And some of the profitability can be maintained through efficiency (i.e. if you have the capacity to serve 25% more diners with the same staff, at least you are avoiding some added expense.) But when that well runs dry, your profits start to decline. How do you get profits back up? You cut costs.

We're talking about people who report eating $70-80 worth of food in a day for which they are only paying $37.99!!!

Well, here's the problem with that logic - lots of things have impacted Disney's profit stream over two years - most notably the voltility in fuel prices. The DDP certainly has impacted profitability of restaurants - and I don't think the additional "butts in seats" adds much - Disney restaurants were BUSY before the DDP - they've gone from BUSY to "you can't get a walk up at 4:30 except in obscure places." And Disney had high 80%/low 90% mean hotel occupancy pre-Dining plan too - and had pretty much stopped using codes - so the whole "they are selling more hotel rooms thing" - not really buying that. Not only that, but a corporation tries to increase profits even if they haven't gone down - Disney could be making more money than ever and some executive could decide "we need more margin!" So the DDP is one factor in cost cutting measures, but it isn't the "root of ALL evil." (are they going to ban me now?)

 

[SimbaNoodle]

Sadly, it seems that the majority of the changes and cutbacks will effect DVC Members the most. For most of us, Disney is a way of life and the parks are only a fraction of what we love about WDW. I look forward to the resorts, dining and atmosphere just as much as my time at the parks.

With over 100,000 members now, we definetly represent a large chunk of their theme park business.

 

[mickeymarcor]

For me, the convenience of getting food at the pool, or at one of the restaurants at the DVC resorts is not a big issue. I get the DDP and spend all my time at WDW at the theme parks. That's why I'm an DVC member. If all I wanted to do is spend time at a pool, I'd go elsewhere in Florida.

 

[SaratogaShan]

SSR is the same way, no food poolside.

I consider Artist's Palette to be poolside. It takes all of 45 seconds to walk there from anywhere around the main pool! We spent a couple of full days at the pool this past summer. When we were ready for lunch, I dried off with a towel, threw on a coverup and some flip flops and went in. It was not an awkward situation as there were plenty of pool folks getting lunch to go. We ate at one of the tables poolside. Very nice!


One other observation......When Artist's Palette opened, there were many complaints that the food was too different, it seemed like some folks wanted more "standard fare". Now all the complaints are that the food at Disney is becoming too standardized and that there is no variety. WELL, NO WONDER! Anything different is offered, and the masses complain! I get the feeling that some of this is self inflicted.

Shan

 

[maminnie]

Personally I think a lot of the food quality and choices at the Disney parks and resorts could use some improvement. It is expensive and often not that good. Up until now we have just expected it to be this way but it sounds like it's getting worse instead of better. Our last visit was in winter '05 and we will be there this winter, and I believe food is going to be a major disappointment to my family and other family members who are joining us. A corporation like Disney should have food quality and service perfected at this point but I really do think they drop the ball in this area. The dining plan sounds as if it might be ok financially but forces everyone to be on such a time crunch due to having to have reservations especially during busy travel times. I have found it very difficult in the past to be at certain places around Disney in order to make a reservation especially since we travel with children of all ages and sometimes grandparents at times that are crowded.

As far as food choices at BWV and BWI, I believe it could be improved as well and hope that if ESPN does close that Disney puts in another full service (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) restaurant with take-out options. It is needed in the Boardwalk area.

As far as poolside food options, I believe the resorts should have this available to its guests. As another poster mentioned BWI also uses the main Boardwalk pool and as deluxe resort guests without kitchens they should have food options at the pool. Many people including DVC members such as myself enjoy time at the pool and would like to be able to order snacks and sandwich type items should they wish. Despite having a kitchen at the BWV, I still like to feel like I am on vacation and at a resort and not in my kitchen at home!!!

Time will tell. I'll be sure to post my experiences and hope that they are more positive then I think they are going to be.

maminnie

 

[CarolA]

I have bad news for you guys.

The ESPN club is not run by Disney. Yes, they are owned by the same folks but not RUN by the same folks so don't blame Disney for thier decision not to do take out.

Another note... BWV is not entirely DVC. So blaming DVC for the changes at the bar may not be entirely valid either.

And on the note the DVC board really hates. It's a business. If the "hot dogs sales" were losing money they are GONE!

 

[crisi]

Sadly, it seems that the majority of the changes and cutbacks will effect DVC Members the most. For most of us, Disney is a way of life and the parks are only a fraction of what we love about WDW. I look forward to the resorts, dining and atmosphere just as much as my time at the parks.

With over 100,000 members now, we definetly represent a large chunk of their theme park business.

I don't think its fair for DVC Members to get to play the martyr. The "hot dog change" affects someone who stays every year at the BWI just as much as it does me. The changes to restaurants affect thousands of locals and people who don't own DVC because they are happy with their moderate resorts. Or those people who own other timeshares, but spend most of their days onsite and used to really enjoy the variety of Disney restaurants. At the same time, of the huge block of DVC members, there are a lot of people who use their kitchens. There are a lot of people who drive and eat offsite. We do represent a significant block, but I don't know that we are more injured than any other block. And, since we have a committment to Disney, we are at less risk to be lost to Disney than the guy who has been staying at the BWI each year - he can go over to the Gaylord Palms.