Dining staff not paid?

[ProgressCity]

I want to think that those who cruise Disney would be some of the last people that would stiff anyone out of their tips that they so deserve. I really hope I am right.

When I worked at DCL, I was shocked at how many people removed gratuities as a way to protest something completely unrelated to their servers. I'd try to explain that removing gratuities for your server will do nothing to fix your merchandise/port adventures/maintenance/website/policy/whatever issue and punishes someone who gave good service. It never once worked. I really wish they'd make the gratuities mandatory or just fold it into the price like they do the "free" soda and all the other stuff they don't nickel and dime over.

 

[KashasMom]

Is anyone surprised to hear that servers work for tips? Chalk that up to "duh".

Of course, they make the most off tips. The question was do they get a base salary, no matter how small?

 

[KT2038]

Of course, they make the most off tips. The question was do they get a base salary, no matter how small?

Yes they do

 

[tinkerone]

When I worked at DCL, I was shocked at how many people removed gratuities as a way to protest something completely unrelated to their servers. I'd try to explain that removing gratuities for your server will do nothing to fix your merchandise/port adventures/maintenance/website/policy/whatever issue and punishes someone who gave good service. It never once worked. I really wish they'd make the gratuities mandatory or just fold it into the price like they do the "free" soda and all the other stuff they don't nickel and dime over.

On one of our cruises I stepped out of our room at exactly the same time as a couple in the cabin next to ours. It was the last morning and we were both heading to guest services. They were giggling and talking about how best to get gratuities removed from their account. One of the two said 'tell them it ruined our whole vacation' and laughed even louder. I let them take the lead and get in line before me and continued to hear the giggling and how best to maybe 'get something'. When they got to a CM their very mood changed, all of a sudden they were serious and this was 'the worst vacation they ever had'. Remove all tips. They talked about how bad things were with the service all around. The CM asked if they had mentioned this to anyone before the end of the seventh day, that seemed to take them back a bit but they continued with their obviously made up story. She asked about the tip tickets but the couple made up some excuse about throwing them out. Poor CM had to show sympathy for things she could not have possibly believed. The long and the short of it is they took off the tips and were feeling pretty good with themselves. I got to follow them back to the cabins and listened to more giggling and back patting. The worst was, i would bet that they handed out the envelopes the night before and thanked the crew. I just don't understand how they would not have been embarrassed but they weren't. To each their own I guess.
And how many times does this happen on a sailing? I to wish they would build it into the cost of the cruise, not even show it in the breakdown. It just would be.

 

[MillauFr]

They should just get rid of the gratuity nonsense and move to a 20% service charge to reimburse all stateroom hosts and dining staff. I am glad in Seattle the trend is for restaurants to eliminate tipping and moving towards 20% service charges. Much more equitable.

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

They should just get rid of the gratuity nonsense and move to a 20% service charge to reimburse all stateroom hosts and dining staff. I am glad in Seattle the trend is for restaurants to eliminate tipping and moving towards 20% service charges. Much more equitable.

I'm just the opposite, I avoid places that add on mandatory service charges. If they are going to add service charges, then they should just raise their menu prices and pay the employee's a higher wage. I don't have any problem tipping for good service but I do have a problem giving a tip for very poor service. If I'm at a restaurant and I have to constantly get the attention of an employee to get my drink refilled or our server doesn't check on us; then don't expect me to leave much of a tip. Great service will get the person a higher percentage tip, poor service a lot lower of one.

So adding a 20% service charge and receiving poor service would be the quickest way for me to demand to see the manager and then file a complaint with the corporate office, along with never visiting or recommending that restaurant again.

We have had nothing but great service while on our two cruises and have added extra in all the tip envelopes both times.

Psy

 

[MillauFr]

ISo adding a 20% service charge and receiving poor service would be the quickest way for me to demand to see the manager and then file a complaint with the corporate office, along with never visiting or recommending that restaurant again.

It doesn't matter if they have a service charge or not. If you got poor service why would you return? I have seen no difference in the level of service in restaurants that have service charge versus those that don't. The problem with tipping is that the cheap people are getting all of the benefits without having to incur the costs. Why should the generous tippers bail out those that are cheap? We need a more equitable system to reimburse service professionals.

 

[MomOTwins]

I'm just the opposite, I avoid places that add on mandatory service charges. If they are going to add service charges, then they should just raise their menu prices and pay the employee's a higher wage. I don't have any problem tipping for good service but I do have a problem giving a tip for very poor service. If I'm at a restaurant and I have to constantly get the attention of an employee to get my drink refilled or our server doesn't check on us; then don't expect me to leave much of a tip. Gredat service will get the person a higher percentage tip, poor service a lot lower of one.

So adding a 20% service charge and receiving poor service would be the quickest way for me to demand to see the manager and then file a complaint with the corporate office, along with never visiting or recommending that restaurant again.

We have had nothing but great service while on our two cruises and have added extra in all the tip envelopes both times.

Psy

How is raising menu prices 20% and using that to pay servers any different from adding 20% as a separate line item and using that to pay servers? The cost of the meal is the same, and in either case, you can't punish the server by withholding payment you don't like the service.

I wonder what your job is, and if you'd feel comfortable if your paycheck could be withheld any time your boss found something to nitpick about your performance.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

If they are going to add service charges, then they should just raise their menu prices and pay the employee's a higher wage.

Economically, the reason they don't is because if the restaurant is half full, they still have to pay full wage, but if the restaurant is half full, the 20% surcharge doesn't happen.

if they went just to significant raising of the wage, overall menu price would need to go far higher than the 20% surcharge.

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

The problem with tipping is that the cheap people are getting all of the benefits without having to incur the costs. Why should the generous tippers bail out those that are cheap? We need a more equitable system to reimburse service professionals.

The solution is; for them to pay their employees a proper wage and not have the employees rely on tips make up the difference. There is no law that says you have to leave a tip when you go to a restaurant.

Psy

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

How is raising menu prices 20% and using that to pay servers any different from adding 20% as a separate line item and using that to pay servers? The cost of the meal is the same, and in either case, you can't punish the server by withholding payment you don't like the service.

I wonder what your job is, and if you'd feel comfortable if your paycheck could be withheld any time your boss found something to nitpick about your performance.

The difference to me is that when my wife and I go out to eat at a new place, we ask to see the menu first. Even if it is a place that we have been to before, if we see that the prices have raised and are more then we want to pay, then we get up and leave. We have a choice if we want to pay the price or not. Most of the time, if a place has a surcharge, it is written in very small print on the bottom of the menu. So most of the time the service charge ends up being a surprise. Just like the convenience charge for sitting down at some restaurants in Portofino took customers by surprise when we did our European cruise back in 2018. The restaurant didn't have anything posted outside, but did have in small print that there was a 4 euro per person charge to sit at the tables.

As for what my job is, I'm an office manager and if my boss wants to change my pay that is his right as the owner and if I don't like it, I can look for another job.

Economically, the reason they don't is because if the restaurant is half full, they still have to pay full wage, but if the restaurant is half full, the 20% surcharge doesn't happen.

if they went just to significant raising of the wage, overall menu price would need to go far higher than the 20% surcharge.

I know the reasons why they don't want to raise prices and that is part of my point. Most restaurants run at a sub 10% gross margin so anything that causes their labor costs to raise hurts their bottom line and can cause their business to close. It is one of the reason, most don't want to have to pay their servers more and in areas to where they have had to i.e. Seattle the staff has had their hours cut, so if they were working 30 hours a week before, they are now only working 15 to 20 hours and having to take on more tables.

Psy

 

[DisBNewB]

Economically, the reason they don't is because if the restaurant is half full, they still have to pay full wage, but if the restaurant is half full, the 20% surcharge doesn't happen.

if they went just to significant raising of the wage, overall menu price would need to go far higher than the 20% surcharge.

I'm mostly with you, but as a bookkeeper, whether they list the [replaced gratuities] as a surcharge or simply increase the price without being explicit about what's going into that (past "cost includes all minimum gratuities" or something along those lines), internally it can work the same, where the staff is informed that they'll receive the [replaced gratuities amount] at $x per person, based on the number of people they have assigned to them. It would keep their pay at whatever rate, and keep their wages based on tips, but remove the ability for passengers to take those minimum tips off.

(Granted, legally I'm not sure what the protocol would be in terms of that; it's possible that to require the employees to handle the taxes vs the company it would still have to be listed as a service charge, I'm not sure. But in terms of how the internal structure of the money and payroll works, it's completely doable.)

I do with they'd either be paid more, or that the ability to remove tips altogether would be done away with. One or the other. I do like that they can be adjusted - we adjusted ours up on our cruise - but I think a lot of people don't think about the fact that they're not paid much past the tips.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

internally it can work the same, where the staff is informed that they'll receive the [replaced gratuities amount] at $x per person

For a cruise, it does work differently than for a corner bistro, obviously. At a bistro, it amounts to a tax/use fee, which means that rather than hiking up the menu pricing to acocunt for wages across the board, the upcharge is a use fee. Obviously, on a cruise, the audience is far more captive, and even if someone skips MDR to eat on deck, the use fee has more relevance than if, on the mean streets of Minneapolis, someone skipped going to the pot roast lunch place and had a sandwich delivered.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

Even a person who does a job at less-than-optimal levels deserves to be compensated something for their labor. An average accountant, hair stylist or lawyer may not get paid as much as a stellar one, but he/she still is paid. Otherwise, it's slavery. Where I live, there is an automatic 10% service charge added to bills at restaurants, and I always add another 10% to make it the standard 20%. This enables me to have the choice to reward good servers while also protecting them from the cheapest customers. DCL should do something similar. Allowing people to completely remove tips is tantamount to theft of services, morally if not legally. If you really have such a terrible experience at a restaurant where you are considering completely skipping a tip, then probably you should take it up with management who will comp the meal outright. On DCL, they could mollify irate and/or cheap passengers in other ways without taking it out on the backs of the staff they rely on.

 

[DisBNewB]

For a cruise, it does work differently than for a corner bistro, obviously. At a bistro, it amounts to a tax/use fee, which means that rather than hiking up the menu pricing to acocunt for wages across the board, the upcharge is a use fee. Obviously, on a cruise, the audience is far more captive, and even if someone skips MDR to eat on deck, the use fee has more relevance than if, on the mean streets of Minneapolis, someone skipped going to the pot roast lunch place and had a sandwich delivered.

Absolutely. (and I don't work for a restaurant, fwiw, just applying my on the job knowledge to the situation. ) I'm not trying to compare it to a restaurant, especially since, unless you request that you be moved to a different server, as far as DCL is concerned, you're responsible for the gratuities whether you dine in the MDR or not. If you don't go into a restaurant in your neighborhood, they don't get a tip because you weren't giving them any of your money in the first place.

I guess I'm not sure I see how what you're saying goes against what I'm saying - which is simply that, in terms of numbers, whether it's kept as a gratuity but with limited ability to adjust it, made a non-adjustable service charge, or rolled into the (per person) cost of the cruise, that money can still be held separate and handed off to the servers separate from what DCL considers their salary. Perhaps I should clarify that I still mean a total cost for the whole trip, as opposed to a cost per meal based on your visit to the MDR?

 

[Lisa F]

I would be fine with a service charge, but it should be a flat fee per person, and not 20% - 20% of my cruise fare on my upcoming cruise is about $800, which is nearly 4x the amount of recommended tips for two people for 7 days. Why should someone who is in a verandah cabin pay more in gratuity to dining room servers than someone who is inisde, or someone with 4 people in a room pay less per person than someone who only has 2 in a room?

 

[FigmentSpark]

I would be fine with a service charge, but it should be a flat fee per person, and not 20% - 20% of my cruise fare on my upcoming cruise is about $800, which is nearly 4x the amount of recommended tips for two people for 7 days. Why should someone who is in a verandah cabin pay more in gratuity to dining room servers than someone who is inisde, or someone with 4 people in a room pay less per person than someone who only has 2 in a room?

They already have a tax/fees line item. Just add in gratuities to that. Then they are prepaid, as well.

 

[DisBNewB]

They already have a tax/fees line item. Just add in gratuities to that. Then they are prepaid, as well.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Sorcerer's Dad]

Got off a seven day Fantasy cruise on 12/21/2019. My wife and I had several conversations with our lead server, not on purpose but because we encountered him frequently - Cabana's, Castaway Cay, etc. During one discussion, subject of salary came up and he stated that servers were being paid $75/mo and the rest came from tips. He didn't say what he was paid/mo.

 

[waltjr]

I just read this and am curious if this is true. This is the first time I've heard this and well...actually I don't believe it.

"Did you know that the dinning staff’s salary is the tips. They don’t earn any other salary. I didn’t know that until recently."

Basically their wage pays for their room and board. Most of them send their tips home to family. We always tip extra because the service deserves it.