Declining the 15 extra years

[dianeschlicht]

The legal department and outside counsel at Disney probably figured that DVC members would love a chance to re-up. They should reconsider the process now that people have shown them otherwise.

I totally agree! I don't think they expected so many folks to turn them down. That's probably because there aren't too many retirement age folks running DVC, while there are quite a few retirement age folks who own OKW!

 

[salmoneous]

I totally agree! I don't think they expected so many folks to turn them down.

If this is true, then they are idiots. A ten-second look at resale prices would have told them "the market" doesn't put much value on those extra years. SSR sells for $5-6/point more than OKW and less/same than resorts with 12 fewer years. At $15/point, Disney is charging at least double the market rate for those years. In addition, Disney has put almost no effort and money into marketing the sale. Even if you have the greatest, best priced product in the world, you have to work hard to get folks to write a check for thousands of dollars.

 

[castleri]

After the meeting about the extension that was held in September I stopped and spoke with Jim Lewis and the lawyer who was present. They indicated that the original idea was to offer the extension and set a date for accepting the offer. If a person did not accept the offer they would be considered as refusing. They then said that due to some real estate requirements(laws?) it was found they have to get notarized statements that a person does not wish to buy the additonal years of use. At the beginning of the meeting it was stated that the extension was being done because so many people had inquired about and indicated they wanted to be able to extend their memberships to correspond to the new resorts being offered. Obviously it was not the people here on the DIS although I do remember threads that seemed to indicate people thought it would be a good idea and wondered if DVC would ever do it and when they would do it. He also said that they would make every effort to contact members who did not respond before it could/would affect their membership. We decided not to do the extension because in 2042 I will be 99 and my oldest grandchild will be 55 plus we have an SSR contract that will still be good. In this case I would rather spend the money for more points I can use in the next few years. I wonder if they are waiting to send out the paperwork until they have most of it back so they can just do a mass mailing. I do think the $30 off on dues for next year to cover the cost of having it notarized is fair. I don't know about others but our credit union will notarize at no cost so it is just the time involved that impacts us and realistically that will be about 15 minutes when we may be there on other business anyway. I wish I could be at the annual meeting as it may be very interesting this year.

 

[dianeschlicht]

After the meeting about the extension that was held in September I stopped and spoke with Jim Lewis and the lawyer who was present. They indicated that the original idea was to offer the extension and set a date for accepting the offer. If a person did not accept the offer they would be considered as refusing. They then said that due to some real estate requirements(laws?) it was found they have to get notarized statements that a person does not wish to buy the additonal years of use. At the beginning of the meeting it was stated that the extension was being done because so many people had inquired about and indicated they wanted to be able to extend their memberships to correspond to the new resorts being offered. Obviously it was not the people here on the DIS although I do remember threads that seemed to indicate people thought it would be a good idea and wondered if DVC would ever do it and when they would do it. He also said that they would make every effort to contact members who did not respond before it could/would affect their membership. We decided not to do the extension because in 2042 I will be 99 and my oldest grandchild will be 55 plus we have an SSR contract that will still be good. In this case I would rather spend the money for more points I can use in the next few years. I wonder if they are waiting to send out the paperwork until they have most of it back so they can just do a mass mailing. I do think the $30 off on dues for next year to cover the cost of having it notarized is fair. I don't know about others but our credit union will notarize at no cost so it is just the time involved that impacts us and realistically that will be about 15 minutes when we may be there on other business anyway. I wish I could be at the annual meeting as it may be very interesting this year.

I'm sure the notarization is and should be mandatory. I also think you might be right about the "mass mailing" idea, but there needs to be COMMUNICATION about it!!! That has been seriously lacking in the past few months. They had no problem communicating with members when AKV was announced and available for sales, but we certainly haven't gotten much on the mechanics of this "extension" that many of us don't need or want. I wish I could be at the meeting this year too. Not just for this issue either. Unfortunately, I have to leave on the 29th, and the meeting is the 4th.

 

[BEACHCLUBVILLAS]

Would a bunch of liens put on owners who sent in their postcards to decline or did nothing for that matter be grounds for a class action? Glad I'm not an OKW owner. I don't like these kinds of threats when the legal documents I have say we all agree my membership ends in 2042.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

If this is true, then they are idiots. A ten-second look at resale prices would have told them "the market" doesn't put much value on those extra years. SSR sells for $5-6/point more than OKW and less/same than resorts with 12 fewer years. At $15/point, Disney is charging at least double the market rate for those years. In addition, Disney has put almost no effort and money into marketing the sale. Even if you have the greatest, best priced product in the world, you have to work hard to get folks to write a check for thousands of dollars.

you can twist numbers just about anyway you want to make an argument.

fact is right now differences between OKW and SSR range anywhere from a few dollars all the way up to $21.

DVC is not charging double at all, $15 is a perfectly reasonable

 

[ADP]

you can twist numbers just about anyway you want to make an argument.

fact is right now differences between OKW and SSR range anywhere from a few dollars all the way up to $21.

DVC is not charging double at all, $15 is a perfectly reasonable

I think $15 per point for the extension is a terrific value. There are obviously some exciting things coming up in the future of DVC with expansion. Considering these expansion plans the $15 per point extension seems like an even better bargain. I understand the age consideration for some, but if I were an Old Key West owner I would jump on the extension in a heartbeat.

 

[salmoneous]

fact is right now differences between OKW and SSR range anywhere from a few dollars all the way up to $21.

I highly doubt there are similar contracts at the two resorts that have sold for a $21/point difference. There may be many ways to "twist" the numbers, but the way to judge how much value the market is putting on extra years is pretty simple - look at similar contracts and see what the difference in sale price is. (Yes, I know that's not perfect, as there are other differences between SSR and OKW, but it should be close). And that difference in price isn't $21/point, it isn't $15/point, it's $5-6/point.

DVC is not charging double at all, $15 is a perfectly reasonable

$15 may be perfectly reasonable. It may be a "great value" as another poster put it. But $15/point is a lot more than the value most buyers place on the extra years. If DVC buyers felt the extra years were worth $15, the resale price for SSR wouldn't be where it is compared to OKW and the other WDW resorts. As such, it's not surprising if Disney isn't a high percentage of folks buying.

 

[Quiksilvr]

One should also consider the possibility that Disney is testing the waters to see what they should do when the other resorts start to age significantly. The response they get from this extension offer will affect what Disney will do in the future. It sucks for the OKW members because they are, in essence, the lab experiment. This is a first for Disney. Cut them a little slack while they work it out. I think they're trying to balance what they believe are the desires of the membership with the economic and legal reality of the situation.

 

[JimC]

If they drag it out until 2042, it won't matter to us. We've sent in our card saying "No thanks," and we're done with it. We'll do the legal paperwork whenever they get around to it.

I suspect the real reason why it's taking a long time is they were really not set up to complete the process. I also think they have received a lot more "no's" than they expected and the process will therefore take longer. IMHO, they would only hurt themselves by dragging their feet.

Jim, Since the decision date is 02/29/08 it does not hurt anyone for them to not process any paperwork until after that date. I agree that they may hope folks will change their minds. And by not processing the paperwork may leave that option open.

I expect that DVC will do a mass mailing in March 08 to the "no thank you" responses with the appropriate paperwork.

Then they have me, no word at all. I will sit on it until the end of February then let them know.

 

[Scotch]

Diane - Just to be on the safe side, send in your card. If you can't find the card, write a letter declining the extension and ask someone to send you the correct mailing address for the declinations. (If it were me, I'd send it with some type of delivery tracking so you can "prove" Disney received it). You can put a note on it that you previously called your guide if you like.

There are no records of phone calls and since they are talking "LIEN", well IMHO, it's better to be safe than sorry. While I'm sure things will eventually work out, I wouldn't want to even take a chance that I'd have to deal with any "hassles" using my points. Disney has the big stick here - anything we members could do in the event of a dispute or problem would definitely take time & effort and who knows what Disney might do while they are getting their act together. JMHO.

That sounded paranoid, didn't it? I suppose it was - but I still think it is a good idea!

I didn't even consider this. I had lost my postcard so I called owner's administration at MS and left a message; they have a designated person who is handling these inquires. I asked for a phone call back to confirm she received my voicemail and she did call back. I'll have to check if I took a note of the date; I think it was roughly six weeks ago as well. Now I wonder if I ought to send a "no" in writing, too, as I do NOT want the darn lien. Grrrrr.

 

[JimC]

I didn't even consider this. I had lost my postcard so I called owner's administration at MS and left a message; they have a designated person who is handling these inquires. I asked for a phone call back to confirm she received my voicemail and she did call back. I'll have to check if I took a note of the date; I think it was roughly six weeks ago as well. Now I wonder if I ought to send a "no" in writing, too, as I do NOT want the darn lien. Grrrrr.

I suspect that a lien is the last in a long series of steps DVC will take.

 

[Merilyn]

We gave it much thought and decided to add more points to OKW rather than extend. I will be 92 and my children will have grandchildren and maybe great grandchildren. It made more sense for us to enjoy the additional cost right now with more points. We didn't have to have additional cost but this was a good time to addon. We got 150 more points to OKW and now we can have 2 vacations a year- one at OKW and a trade elsewhere. We have a lot of points but when you stay in a GV they are used up quickly. Disney seems to want to make this extension hard for us. I am sure there will be some who don't get the paper work and have a lien on their membership before it is all said and done. It is good to have these forums so we can know all and keep up with everything.

 

[simzac]

I think $15 per point for the extension is a terrific value. There are obviously some exciting things coming up in the future of DVC with expansion. Considering these expansion plans the $15 per point extension seems like an even better bargain. I understand the age consideration for some, but if I were an Old Key West owner I would jump on the extension in a heartbeat.

You really think paying for something you can't use for another 35 years is a good deal. There is not one solitary member who has any idea what they'll be doing in 35 years, providing they are still with us. In fact, there is no guarantee Disney will even exist as we know it now in 35 years based on the changes the company keeps making. JMO

 

[sjdisneywedding]

. Disney seems to want to make this extension hard for us. I am sure there will be some who don't get the paper work and have a lien on their membership before it is all said and done. It is good to have these forums so we can know all and keep up with everything.

I still dont get it though, why would they want to make it harder than it has to be. I would think they would just want it official one way or the other.

it has to be that they have to it this way for legal reasons

poorly planned and organized maybe, but I cant believe they set out to make it that way

 

[sjdisneywedding]

You really think paying for something you can't use for another 35 years is a good deal. There is not one solitary member who has any idea what they'll be doing in 35 years, providing they are still with us. In fact, there is no guarantee Disney will even exist as we know it now in 35 years based on the changes the company keeps making. JMO

I cant understand how anyone who owns in the first place can even use that as an excuse. when you buy AKV you are paying NOW for 50 years worth of points, you can only use 1 year at a time(well maybe 3 at at time)

you are simply extending the contract you already have at a pretty good discount at that.

evryone who ever bought DVC is in the same boat as far as knowing what they will be doing in 35 years or if Disney is even there

 

[sjdisneywedding]

You really think paying for something you can't use for another 35 years is a good deal. There is not one solitary member who has any idea what they'll be doing in 35 years, providing they are still with us. In fact, there is no guarantee Disney will even exist as we know it now in 35 years based on the changes the company keeps making. JMO

I wasnt around for original OKW sales, but I would imagine you are basically just extending 15 years for just about the same price per year(actually probably even less) some of the very first OKW buyers paid

say you bought an original for $50 per point for 50 years(if thats even as low as it was)
this basically comes out to $65 per point for 65 years

I would bet the majority of OKW owners paid even more than $1 per point per year

 

[dianeschlicht]

I cant understand how anyone who owns in the first place can even use that as an excuse. when you buy AKV you are paying NOW for 50 years worth of points, you can only use 1 year at a time(well maybe 3 at at time)

you are simply extending the contract you already have at a pretty good discount at that.

evryone who ever bought DVC is in the same boat as far as knowing what they will be doing in 35 years or if Disney is even there

True, but if your pushing daisys by then why would you spend it now?

 

[Mike]

I cant understand how anyone who owns in the first place can even use that as an excuse. when you buy AKV you are paying NOW for 50 years worth of points, you can only use 1 year at a time(well maybe 3 at at time)

you are simply extending the contract you already have at a pretty good discount at that.

evryone who ever bought DVC is in the same boat as far as knowing what they will be doing in 35 years or if Disney is even there

I think it comes down to risk. If you buy now, yes you are buying 50 years worth of points but you can begin using those points immediately. The short-term risk is minimal that Disney will change significantly and, assuming you are in good health, that you will not be around to enjoy the points. So you will get some return on your investment.

In this case, the start date for the points you are purchasing is not tomorrow but 35 years from now. So you can't really compare the two.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

True, but if your pushing daisys by then why would you spend it now?

absolutely, each person still has to weigh options

but if you think you can use it, the price per point cant be beat IMO