DCA - World of Color Accessibility Rant

[cmwade77]

I don't think anyone is arguing that locations can choose to comply early, or even to comply when they are not required to. But I think what you are missing is it does not appear that DL is out of complaince for several reasons.

But that's my point, they are not choosing to comply early, many venues are being told to comply or to cease operations until they do comply. If smaller venues, where in many cases it is finically difficult to do so, are being forced to comply, I can't imagine Disney getting around having to comply.

As for the benches, they are indeed required under ADA, Disney tried at first to not provide benches, from what I have been told this lasted one or two nights of soft openings before one of the regulating agencies (I do not know who did this, there are a few agencies with this power in California) stepped in and told them that they either had to add a sitting section or add benches. So benches with a view that is equal or better than the best possible view for a non disabled guest must be available under ADA, that is indisputable based on the facts as they have been relayed to me and Disney doesn't seem to want to even try denying that so far, so now the question is whoput the benches and the reserved wheelchair viewing at the back (in violation of the law or at the very least the spirit of the law)?

We already know the why, a WOC lead has admitted that it is for their convience, not to enhance the guest experience for anyone.

Now, what can be done about it? Pushing things out over social media, writting letters, emails, making phone calls, stopping in at guest relations and filing concerns (complaints never get read anymore), etc.

Bottom line is, we are not the only party upset about this, I heard several groups of people with wheel chairs and people with other special needs complaining about this, I am only being so vocal as I have evidence that they did this to make things easier on the CMs, which is flat out wrong to do, no matter what.

Also, the benches are indeed moveable and are designed to be easily moveable, which means there is no reason to do things the way they are doing it.

Also, keep in mind that they used to have reserved sections that would be compliant with the standards, part of the standards do state that if you were once compliant, you cannot do something (even during a remodel) that would bring the theater out of compliance.

 

[livndisney]

But that's my point, they are not choosing to comply early, many venues are being told to comply or to cease operations until they do comply. If smaller venues, where in many cases it is finically difficult to do so, are being forced to comply, I can't imagine Disney getting around having to comply.

They don't have to comply early, in fact it does not appear what you are asking for is compliance at all.

As for the benches, they are indeed required under ADA, Disney tried at first to not provide benches, from what I have been told this lasted one or two nights of soft openings before one of the regulating agencies (I do not know who did this, there are a few agencies with this power in California) stepped in and told them that they either had to add a sitting section or add benches. So benches with a view that is equal or better than the best possible view for a non disabled guest must be available under ADA, that is indisputable based on the facts as they have been relayed to me and Disney doesn't seem to want to even try denying that so far, so now the question is whoput the benches and the reserved wheelchair viewing at the back (in violation of the law or at the very least the spirit of the law)?

Where do you see in writing DL HAS to provide benches? There is nothing in the revised ADA (that I have seen) that states ANYTHING like that.

We already know the why, a WOC lead has admitted that it is for their convience, not to enhance the guest experience for anyone.

Now, what can be done about it? Pushing things out over social media, writting letters, emails, making phone calls, stopping in at guest relations and filing concerns (complaints never get read anymore), etc.

I'm sorry but at this point there is nothing to be done. DL is not out of compliance.
Bottom line is, we are not the only party upset about this, I heard several groups of people with wheel chairs and people with other special needs complaining about this, I am only being so vocal as I have evidence that they did this to make things easier on the CMs, which is flat out wrong to do, no matter what.

Also, the benches are indeed moveable and are designed to be easily moveable, which means there is no reason to do things the way they are doing it.

Also, keep in mind that they used to have reserved sections that would be compliant with the standards, part of the standards do state that if you were once compliant, you cannot do something (even during a remodel) that would bring the theater out of compliance.

I am sorry, but I and several others on this thread do not see the "problem" as you do. I can find no legal standing for what you are demanding. Sue has pointed out that even IF there were standing DL would have until NEXT year to comply.

 

[cmwade77]

Alright, well, as I said Dismey has not once claimed they were in compliance (which they would indeed do if they were), but has instead stated that the changes were made to make it easier for the CMs. The benches were indeed required (from what I have been told by various higher ups, a sitting only section that was reserved for those that could not stand would have been sufficient and I would even have accepted that). Putting sitting people behind standing people does not make for an equal experience (note that this is where they prefer guests in wheelchairs to be as well, but will not foce them to do so).

This is not a matter I am willing to give in on, what I am asking for is indeed compliance. Note that world of color is a slightly unique show in that it is a standing only show, which means compliance does equal sitting areas for those that cannot stand forbthe length of the show, there were rulings against Disney about this, that is undisputable. They are required to maintain whatever level of compliance has ever been reached at a particular venue for the life of that venue, as it demonstrates that a particular level of compliance can be reached in a particular venue.

Now, please stop responding about if it does or doesn't comply, I am certainly going to attempt to stop responding to those comments, as they do nothing to address what is wrong here, the point is they had reasonable sections reserved for those in wheelchairs and that were unable to stand for the length of the show and now they have out them in the very back where their views are obscured. this is not equal access, really, all I truly want is the wheel chair locations restored to the correct locations. I have only mentioned that you could put them in the front of each section as a balance between what I am asking for and making it easier for the CMs (note for those sitting, the front of some of the sections would no be good, as you would have bars in front of your face, the old wheel chair sections are about the best they could do and is reasonable).

 

[livndisney]

Alright, well, as I said Dismey has not once claimed they were in compliance (which they would indeed do if they were), but has instead stated that the changes were made to make it easier for the CMs. The benches were indeed required (from what I have been told by various higher ups, a sitting only section that was reserved for those that could not stand would have been sufficient and I would even have accepted that). Putting sitting people behind standing people does not make for an equal experience (note that this is where they prefer guests in wheelchairs to be as well, but will not foce them to do so).

This is not a matter I am willing to give in on, what I am asking for is indeed compliance. Note that world of color is a slightly unique show in that it is a standing only show, which means compliance does equal sitting areas for those that cannot stand forbthe length of the show, there were rulings against Disney about this, that is undisputable. They are required to maintain whatever level of compliance has ever been reached at a particular venue for the life of that venue, as it demonstrates that a particular level of compliance can be reached in a particular venue.

Now, please stop responding about if it does or doesn't comply, I am certainly going to attempt to stop responding to those comments, as they do nothing to address what is wrong here, the point is they had reasonable sections reserved for those in wheelchairs and that were unable to stand for the length of the show and now they have out them in the very back where their views are obscured. this is not equal access, really, all I truly want is the wheel chair locations restored to the correct locations. I have only mentioned that you could put them in the front of each section as a balance between what I am asking for and making it easier for the CMs (note for those sitting, the front of some of the sections would no be good, as you would have bars in front of your face, the old wheel chair sections are about the best they could do and is reasonable).

I can't help if you won't listen. So I will wish you well. But you have presented no evidence other than what you want and sadly, that is not enough to launch a campaign like you are suggesting. I am one of the first to jump on the "help the disabled" bandwagon. But you are asking for "rights" that are not "rights". Good luck to you.

 

[crashbb]

Interesting thread. I know that Sue and Livndisney are very knowledge about the ADA, so I believe their take on the situation.

You'd likely have more luck with Disney (we know that they often exceed what is needed by the ADA), if you didn't accuse them of breaking the law (given the evidence provided here that they are not breaking the law).

As for your video "proof" - we've all had CMs tell us things about Disney policy/rules that are blatantly wrong. Unless you have a corporate memo stating that Disney knowingly violated the ADA, for CM convenience, I don't see that video helping you much.

World of Color seems to be a logistic nightmare for everyone who wants to see it. Too bad, sounds very promising.

 

[Mama Who]

If Disney is out of compliance contact the local disability advocacy center and tell them. There are organized activists in California who will know exactly what to say to who to get the issue taken care of. They also tend to have lawyers who generally donate time and can tell them what is and isn't a legal compliance issue, so if you're correct you won't have to worry about that debate.

Good luck. I hope you get answers soon.

 

[dclfun]

When I went to WoC twice in April, the first time I had a fastpass from a picnic lunch purchase and while I was placed in the "disability" section in my w/c, which also had benches, the view was quite blurry. Also, one very large family took up ALL the bench seating on one side and had ONE child with them who had special needs. Second time I joined friends and did a dining package and the view and w/c seating area was far superior- worth every penny to be able to see the show in the center section. I guess I still don't understand why they're required to provide benches which in our case were occupied mostly by those who were part of a group but certainly not all needing those seats for a hidden disability. IMO the disabled person can rent a w/c and there should be w/c seating where there is no one allowed to stand in front of you. Also I can imagine the problem CM's would have with people claiming to "need" to sit in those benches if it's up-front superior seating and how they can control access to the many who would much prefer to sit or who might be better off sitting such as the elderly, someone with a small child to hold, etc.---Kathy

 

[toocherie]

I have not read the entire thread but was just at WoC last Saturday using preferred dining from Ariel's. We were allowed in first (two on scooters, one on power chair) and were in the middle section. We initially were right up against the railing in the front, but elected half-way through the show to move because we ended up being in the "splash zone"--so the view the first half of the show was great--second half not so great. There were no benches in the preferred dining area we were in.

For those who can't stand for long periods, I believe Disney's position is that you should either get a wheelchair or an ECV--

 

[WheelieBigDisFan]

Now they will allow wheelchairs in any section great for those in wheelchairs, but those (such as my wife) who are unable to stand for the entire length of the show, they will have to sit in the very back, which does not provide an equal viewing area.

In all fairness to the lead and manager involved initially they also told us that we would have to go in at the same time as everyone else; however, when we pointed out that the average person will walk on, push out of the way, etc. anyone with special needs (I have seen it happen and had it happened to me, even for me standing for the length of the show is pushing it, but was doable due to the wheelchair and person that had a walker that I was with, as it provided a bit of extra room to maneuver in).

Now that being said, when we inquired as to why this was done, the first lead we spoke with flat out told us that it was for the CMs convenience. My jaw dropped when she said this, but luckily I caught it on video and I have posted it on youtube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SREvfKTimsI

This is the part that really ticked our group off.

Please note that we had several people in our group with needs, including one recovering from Chemotherapy, one in a wheelchair, one with a walker and two that can't stand for long periods of time. Not once did anyone ever question if any of us truly needed assistance, again, my only issue is with the placement of the reserved areas and the benches to provide equal viewing opportunities as the remainder of the crowd. (I do understand if those viewing areas are full with people that need them by the time I get there, again, it is first come first serve and is how it works for everyone else, as the manager stated not everyone can get the same view, but the point is that they need to offer choices that are the same or beter than what other guests can get and must be reserved until the rest of the viewing area is filled, I do not accept them all being placed in the very back so that it is easier for the cast members).

I'm sorry, but of all things at DLR/DCA to complain about I am lost with you on this one. I haven been to WoC and had zero issues with viewing the show in my manual wheelchair (full time user). I chose to sit in the splash zone, and even with the rail in front of me I could clearly see the show. I think the issue here (for some reason) is that this GROUP of people who had access needs did not feel the NEED to rent a wheelchair or ECV for the day. Surely WoC is not the only place you encountered where there was standing for a length of time required during your stay.

So, walking around two theme parks and DTD, waiting in line for attractions, standing in line for food, watching parades (standing), seeing street performers (standing), and many other things you do at Disney did not bother this GROUP at all? If you were able to complete a day in DCA without assistance I don't see why the assistance was suddenly SO necessary for WoC. If the people in your group had needs for mobility assistance (including a place to sit and rest) a wheelchair or ECV should have been rented to guarantee a safe place to sit and rest when needed. Also, the rental of a WC or ECV would have guaranteed you better seating and visibility during WoC.
Please remember there are two sides to every story. They may have changed the location of the benches after a workers comp claim, making it "easier" on the CM's, but not figuring out a better location for the benches yet (while not putting the CM's in danger of personal injury). Fact of the matter is that it is not always possible to please everyone, so if you want to ensure a good view, in the future you might consider renting a wheelchair/ECV so that you can park where you wish.
I would write more but have to run. Good luck on your next trip.