Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[McCrae]

I may have missed it but I don't recall a single post, not one where someone had insurance that paid. To many are repeating the mantra of 'just insure'. Thank you for reading the policy. thank you understanding it would take your money but not paid off. For C19 in spite of the misleading claim of cancel for any reason in the name, it is just not true. A renter has to cancel within generally 48 hours to qualify and meet the other restrictions. not one renter of a stay cancelled by disney will be paid by insurance.

Earlier in this thread a poster stated he used his cancel for any reason insurance to obtain a refund.

 

[starry_solo]

Earlier in this thread a poster stated he used his cancel for any reason insurance to obtain a refund.

One of the very first posts said that their friend's insurance didn't cover pandemics or when parks were closed

 

[Grnl706]

I have a claim out for my travel insurance currently. I'd be happy to report back on how that goes. I submitted it April 22nd after what I believe to be a qualifying situation (read my policy thoroughly) happened and I submitted all the necessary documentation. Not sure how it's going to go but it was worth a shot and my easiest option.

 

[Amymouse13]

I may have missed it but I don't recall a single post, not one where someone had insurance that paid. To many are repeating the mantra of 'just insure'. Thank you for reading the policy. thank you understanding it would take your money but not paid off. For C19 in spite of the misleading claim of cancel for any reason in the name, it is just not true. A renter has to cancel within generally 48 hours to qualify and meet the other restrictions. not one renter of a stay cancelled by disney will be paid by insurance.

My reading of past 2000 pages is that bc David's issued voucher insurance isn't paying in drive cases. Prior to that pandemics were often weren't covered.

 

[3babiesmom]

So as a renter, if accept David's voucher and for some reason he goes bankrupt or out of business, then what?

 

[Amymouse13]

So as a renter, if accept David's voucher and for some reason he goes bankrupt or out of business, then what?

The last line in his voucher is you basically waived all your rights... In my chargeback rebuttal I cited the top 5 terms of his voucher that were not acceptable or at all part of my previous signed contract...

 

[3babiesmom]

But what if I have already used my voucher (rescheduled my trip)? Would I get to use the points?

 

[cm8]

yes

But what if I have already used my voucher (rescheduled my trip)? Would I get to use the points?

No, I believe that reservation will
be effectively canceled. And that is what you agreed to.

 

[Bearval]

I may have missed it but I don't recall a single post, not one where someone had insurance that paid. To many are repeating the mantra of 'just insure'. Thank you for reading the policy. thank you understanding it would take your money but not paid off. For C19 in spite of the misleading claim of cancel for any reason in the name, it is just not true. A renter has to cancel within generally 48 hours to qualify and meet the other restrictions. not one renter of a stay cancelled by disney will be paid by insurance.

Usually for "cancel for any reason" insurance you have up to 48 hours before your date to cancel and some policies are on a sliding scale for payment . Meaning the closer you get to your date of arrival the less you get back. Cancel for any reason insurance would be one of the few policies that would pay out but most people don't buy it because it is also the most expensive

 

[meryll83]

The last line in his voucher is you basically waived all your rights... In my chargeback rebuttal I cited the top 5 terms of his voucher that were not acceptable or at all part of my previous signed contract...

Can I ask which 5 you chose? Might help with my own claim when someone eventually gets in touch with me for more information... thanks!

 

[McCrae]

One of the very first posts said that their friend's insurance didn't cover pandemics or when parks were closed

Most basic policies dont.

 

[Cyberc1978]

My reading of past 2000 pages is that bc David's issued voucher insurance isn't paying in drive cases. Prior to that pandemics were often weren't covered.

Generally speaking my travel insurance won’t cover anything pandemic or not if I’m provided with a voucher from the vendor.

 

[Bearval]

Can I ask which 5 you chose? Might help with my own claim when someone eventually gets in touch with me for more information... thanks!

I would have to believe the last line where you are required to waive your rights would be enough. Once you agree and sign that i don't believe you can have a charge back since this new contract would supercede the original one.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Again, not all owners would have been willing to refund, but Davids stopped them for one reason only,,,so he didn’t have to refund th e the money,,,

This is a major jump in logic. Without knowing all of the details it's impossible to know for sure, but there are plenty of other reasons (some of which I already laid out in this thread) for why he didn't allow owners to refund the cash to renters.

We can come up with lots os different reasons why he may have done XYZ, but it still comes down to the fact that he could have worked with all owners and renters effected to see what worked best for that agreement,

If its true and he has 2000 to 3000 reservations per month, judging by the size of his staff listed on the website, it could take a year before they'd be able to resolve all of these issues, with the vast majority of owners probably not willing to refund the renters anyways. You can see it in this thread. By in large almost all owners believe they are entitled to the funds because it was "non refundable", while renteres believe they are entitled to full refund because they don't believe the non refundable applies to this situation. Davids is a small to medium sized company who's staff is probably not trained to make judgment calls like that and handle negotiations.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

The solution for every customer would not necessarily be a refund. It should have been an option and possible imo. 14 months to break even isn't really that bad to be honest. Plenty of businesses loose money over a year and are able to weather through the storm. Quite a few businesses suffer a net loss at some point. Guess it depends on how well its managed. I don't see it as a bail out but rather the consequence of poor business practices.

There's a huge difference between losing money, and voluntarily losing seven times your typical income level. Keep in mind, the numbers I used were estimates based on two months of closure. Someone later corrected that it was in fact about 2500 per month of sales rather than per year.. so here is an updated calculation.

5175 x 2500 x 3 months = 39 million dollars.

I'm pretty sure, even if they wanted to pay everyone out of goodwill, they couldn't just give away $39 million.

I've gotten a lot of responses about why the renter is right or why the owner is right, but still no one pointed to logical solution of how the broker could possibly fix the problem. Just complaints about the one solution they offered.

Do I think the solution is perfect? Definitely not. Are there flaws? Definitely. Will everyone be made whole by the solution he came up with? No, a lot of people will lose a lot of money. Do I think its the best solution that anyone has brought to the table that I've seen? It probably is.

Let's go with the assumption that David's is not going to go bankrupt (you can't expect the company to come up with a solution that leads them to bankruptcy, if so your just being naive), who really loses? Owners eventually get the remaining 30%. May take a bit longer than they were hoping for but they still get it. Renter still gets their reservation. Maybe its not exactly when and where they were hoping, but they still get to go on vacation. And Davids gets to keep operating, which is good for all of us. Davids acts as a marketing agent for point rentals on our (owners) behalf.

Just curious, what was the DVC stores solution to the same issues? Nobody is discussing them

 

[Amymouse13]

Can I ask which 5 you chose? Might help with my own claim when someone eventually gets in touch with me for more information... thanks!

Just read through terms of voucher and see which seem totally unreasonable... Like he can cancel it, you waive rights, depends on availability...

The problem for us is that it's not a guarantee for a reservation. Secondly, it's a way for him to fix his faulty contract and have you agree to waive rights if you don't get anything... Basically you get nothing but you agreed to it. When he added like 10 new contract terms not part of original contract is when it seemed like he really wasn't interested in helping renters.

The problem is he can't guarantee the original contract terms as if an owners points can't be used he runs into a supply problem. If every original owner could provide a reservation, he could fulfil what he was supposed to do and not lose his shirt. This is what he should have tried to do especially with extended point life. Maybe reservations would have looked different like instead of 7 nights in studio 4 nights in 1 bedroom but renters at least would be sure they got something. Owners would have fulfilled and he really didn't end up losing... Instead he thinks owners will refund money and renters will take a voucher with those terms... Why would I agree to getting nothing lol

 

[Marionnette]

But what if I have already used my voucher (rescheduled my trip)? Would I get to use the points?

Okay. You’re asking that if you accept the voucher and reschedule your trip, and the David’s goes bankrupt, what happens then?

Well, first off, you don’t “own” those points. Neither does David’s. The DVC member owns the points. David’s agrees to pay that member the remaining 30% of what she/he is owed on your check in day. If David’s goes bankrupt, that owner can pretty much be assured that they will not receive their final amount.

Each owner acts independently. Some will look at a situation like that and leave the reservation as is, and accept that they will never see that last payment. Some, in anticipation of not getting paid, could cancel the reservation and let David’s deal with the renter. And others might look at the reservation and drop 30% of the nights. There’s no way of knowing how individual owners will act, regardless of whether they have a legal right to do it.

My advice, if you choose to go the way of a voucher (which I highly discourage doing), would be to book a regular room reservation. But that would be only if David’s guarantees that the reservation is paid in full at the time it is made AND he provides proof that it has been paid. You don’t want to show up at Disney for your vacation and learn that only the deposit has been paid and you owe the balance.

TBH, a chargeback on your credit card is really your best protection.

 

[Bearval]

There's a huge difference between losing money, and voluntarily losing seven times your typical income level. Keep in mind, the numbers I used were estimates based on two months of closure. Someone later corrected that it was in fact about 2500 per month of sales rather than per year.. so here is an updated calculation.

5175 x 2500 x 3 months = 39 million dollars.

I'm pretty sure, even if they wanted to pay everyone out of goodwill, they couldn't just give away $39 million.

I've gotten a lot of responses about why the renter is right or why the owner is right, but still no one pointed to logical solution of how the broker could possibly fix the problem. Just complaints about the one solution they offered.

Do I think the solution is perfect? Definitely not. Are there flaws? Definitely. Will everyone be made whole by the solution he came up with? No, a lot of people will lose a lot of money. Do I think its the best solution that anyone has brought to the table that I've seen? It probably is.

Let's go with the assumption that David's is not going to go bankrupt (you can't expect the company to come up with a solution that leads them to bankruptcy, if so your just being naive), who really loses? Owners eventually get the remaining 30%. May take a bit longer than they were hoping for but they still get it. Renter still gets their reservation. Maybe its not exactly when and where they were hoping, but they still get to go on vacation. And Davids gets to keep operating, which is good for all of us. Davids acts as a marketing agent for point rentals on our (owners) behalf.

Just curious, what was the DVC stores solution to the same issues? Nobody is discussing them

David's is listed on the BBB site as a sole proprietorship ,if this is accurate then his personal assets are on the line if he goes into bankruptcy ( house , car , dog etc) he is currently fighting for his financial life to keep from going bankrupt.

 

[MIDisFan]

There's a huge difference between losing money, and voluntarily losing seven times your typical income level. Keep in mind, the numbers I used were estimates based on two months of closure. Someone later corrected that it was in fact about 2500 per month of sales rather than per year.. so here is an updated calculation.

5175 x 2500 x 3 months = 39 million dollars.

I'm pretty sure, even if they wanted to pay everyone out of goodwill, they couldn't just give away $39 million.

I've gotten a lot of responses about why the renter is right or why the owner is right, but still no one pointed to logical solution of how the broker could possibly fix the problem. Just complaints about the one solution they offered.

Do I think the solution is perfect? Definitely not. Are there flaws? Definitely. Will everyone be made whole by the solution he came up with? No, a lot of people will lose a lot of money. Do I think its the best solution that anyone has brought to the table that I've seen? It probably is.

Let's go with the assumption that David's is not going to go bankrupt (you can't expect the company to come up with a solution that leads them to bankruptcy, if so your just being naive), who really loses? Owners eventually get the remaining 30%. May take a bit longer than they were hoping for but they still get it. Renter still gets their reservation. Maybe its not exactly when and where they were hoping, but they still get to go on vacation. And Davids gets to keep operating, which is good for all of us. Davids acts as a marketing agent for point rentals on our (owners) behalf.

Just curious, what was the DVC stores solution to the same issues? Nobody is discussing them

This situation has proven that there is not much value in using a broker as a DVC owner. The biggest advantage was security. We now see that was a false sense for both renter and owner. Rather or not, the broker has the ability to make things right has no bearing on his responsibility to do so.

I don't think the overall demand on this thread has been for him to refund every renter and for owners to also keep the 70% plus their points. Mostly the sticking point has been the terms of the voucher and for owners not being allowed to work with renters directly to help with re-booking. Both are solutions that would not cause a financial burden. As you stated earlier, if he lets owners and renters work together they would see they don't really need his services. So what will they provide moving forward that makes it good for all of us?

 

[spinchy]

I've gotten a lot of responses about why the renter is right or why the owner is right, but still no one pointed to logical solution of how the broker could possibly fix the problem. Just complaints about the one solution they offered.

Do I think the solution is perfect? Definitely not. Are there flaws? Definitely. Will everyone be made whole by the solution he came up with? No, a lot of people will lose a lot of money. Do I think its the best solution that anyone has brought to the table that I've seen? It probably is.

[/QUOTE]

I think there is a better solution than the one they’ve offered. A voucher that doesn‘t require agreeing to the new terms and is equal in value to what was originally paid. If they’d offered me a voucher for an equal number of points to what I purchased and still agreed to try to help if Covid forces another closure, I’d have accepted it right away. Instead, I’ve started a charge back.