DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[PrincessDadx2]

While we may all have differing opinions on what Disney's motive is sometimes people can become too generic or too general in their comments and saying physically disabled guests are being kicked out to sell more LL is too generic and too general and inaccurate. There have been physically handicap guests using mobility devices in the standby for years, that is irrefutable. It might be a case of forgetting guests who did not use Disney's service for a person who has been well used to Disney's service; basically a perspective skewed.

Support Disney if you wish, but don't be naive. The parks currently provide over 50% of the corporate profit, so they are maximizing it. There is a difference between using a device and being physically handicapped. My wife qualified under GAC and then under DAS for 15+ years, for reasons that we are not supposed to discuss, so yes I have a skewed perspective. The only thing that has changed is that selling LL access makes it a requirement to shrink the line in LL of people that have not paid so they can have more payers and they get the experience they pay for and are owed. I get it, but I think it is disingenuous of Disney to blame fraud and then remove access for physically handicapped people without discussing the business reason for the change. Now my wife has to listen to an earful about how she/people like her never deserved it and was a cheater, etc. It is certainly not everyone, but has definitely strained a few relationships. She takes it personally, but I understand it is just a business decision that I am on the wrong side of the line on. We already get diminished value from our tickets due to not being able to take advantage of many E ticket rides, not being able to stay all day, having to visit first aid, etc. DAS made up some of that value. With Disney already asking $1,000 per day for my family pushing it to $1,100 to have Genie+ and LL access is my breaking point. If they break enough customers we will see heavy discounting come back. Time will tell.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Support Disney if you wish, but don't be naive. The parks currently provide over 50% of the corporate profit, so they are maximizing it. There is a difference between using a device and being physically handicapped. My wife qualified under GAC and then under DAS for 15+ years, for reasons that we are not supposed to discuss, so yes I have a skewed perspective. The only thing that has changed is that selling LL access makes it a requirement to shrink the line in LL of people that have not paid so they can have more payers and they get the experience they pay for and are owed. I get it, but I think it is disingenuous of Disney to blame fraud and then remove access for physically handicapped people without discussing the business reason for the change. Now my wife has to listen to an earful about how she/people like her never deserved it and was a cheater, etc. It is certainly not everyone, but has definitely strained a few relationships. She takes it personally, but I understand it is just a business decision that I am on the wrong side of the line on. We already get diminished value from our tickets due to not being able to take advantage of many E ticket rides, not being able to stay all day, having to visit first aid, etc. DAS made up some of that value. With Disney already asking $1,000 per day for my family pushing it to $1,100 to have Genie+ and LL access is my breaking point. If they break enough customers we will see heavy discounting come back. Time will tell.

1) I'm not really a big supporter of Disney, in fact I would argue the opposite that I tend to be more critical of Disney than many on this Board so you're really truly barking up the wrong tree on that one.

2) If your response to someone pointing out something regarding your statement is to just say "support Disney if you wish don't be naïve" then I'm not even sure you're in it for an actual discussion or merely again speaking towards your personal feelings that really don't have much to do with what the person is talking about. I'm thinking the latter and certainly won't take it personal.

3) I was pointing out about a generic comment you made. You can totally be upset, not going to tell you otherwise, but understand the discussion surrounding the status of those who are physically handicapped and their line access is not as you presented.

I'm sorry you're feeling the way you are and it seems like you're just venting your frustration here but the simple point I was making is those who are physically handicapped have been in standby lines for years, it may not have been you, but it was someone else and there was no product being sold back then. I hope you're able to find a different location to vacation if you're done with Disney.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Support Disney if you wish, but don't be naive. The parks currently provide over 50% of the corporate profit, so they are maximizing it. There is a difference between using a device and being physically handicapped. My wife qualified under GAC and then under DAS for 15+ years, for reasons that we are not supposed to discuss, so yes I have a skewed perspective. The only thing that has changed is that selling LL access makes it a requirement to shrink the line in LL of people that have not paid so they can have more payers and they get the experience they pay for and are owed. I get it, but I think it is disingenuous of Disney to blame fraud and then remove access for physically handicapped people without discussing the business reason for the change. Now my wife has to listen to an earful about how she/people like her never deserved it and was a cheater, etc. It is certainly not everyone, but has definitely strained a few relationships. She takes it personally, but I understand it is just a business decision that I am on the wrong side of the line on. We already get diminished value from our tickets due to not being able to take advantage of many E ticket rides, not being able to stay all day, having to visit first aid, etc. DAS made up some of that value. With Disney already asking $1,000 per day for my family pushing it to $1,100 to have Genie+ and LL access is my breaking point. If they break enough customers we will see heavy discounting come back. Time will tell.

You're certainly entitled to your perspective, but I think your claim that "The only thing that has changed is that selling LL access makes it a requirement to shrink the line in LL of people that have not paid so they can have more payers and they get the experience they pay for and are owed." is demonstrably false.

The LLs were overrun to the point that they weren't usable for some DAS holders. Too many people were given DAS, and too many exceptions to the party size were granted - it wasn't sustainable.

 

[sunburnin]

Support Disney if you wish, but don't be naive. The parks currently provide over 50% of the corporate profit, so they are maximizing it. There is a difference between using a device and being physically handicapped. My wife qualified under GAC and then under DAS for 15+ years, for reasons that we are not supposed to discuss, so yes I have a skewed perspective. The only thing that has changed is that selling LL access makes it a requirement to shrink the line in LL of people that have not paid so they can have more payers and they get the experience they pay for and are owed. I get it, but I think it is disingenuous of Disney to blame fraud and then remove access for physically handicapped people without discussing the business reason for the change. Now my wife has to listen to an earful about how she/people like her never deserved it and was a cheater, etc. It is certainly not everyone, but has definitely strained a few relationships. She takes it personally, but I understand it is just a business decision that I am on the wrong side of the line on. We already get diminished value from our tickets due to not being able to take advantage of many E ticket rides, not being able to stay all day, having to visit first aid, etc. DAS made up some of that value. With Disney already asking $1,000 per day for my family pushing it to $1,100 to have Genie+ and LL access is my breaking point. If they break enough customers we will see heavy discounting come back. Time will tell.

Sadly, that's been the capitalistic way forever, but it has gone into hyperdrive for the past 20 years. Companies keep chasing the upper wealth levels willing to pay for these upgrades at the expense of others. Sports venues were built with more suites and club levels, and long-time season ticket holders were even relocated. We can buy deluxe packages for any experience. It's been around for ages but feels like we're back to the Titanic's luxury class vs. steerage.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Sadly, that's been the capitalistic way forever, but it has gone into hyperdrive for the past 20 years. Companies keep chasing the upper wealth levels willing to pay for these upgrades at the expense of others. Sports venues were built with more suites and club levels, and long-time season ticket holders were even relocated. We can buy deluxe packages for any experience. It's been around for ages but feels like we're back to the Titanic's luxury class vs. steerage.

Businesses are in business to make money, period. So of course they're going to try/find new ways to increase profits.

But that consideration aside, those who are denied DAS aren't required to pay for lightning lanes, as other accommodations are being offered. If they don't like those accommodations, then of course, they can pay for LLs just like the non-disabled do. But it's a choice, not a mandate.

 

[nalababybear]

You're certainly entitled to your perspective, but I think your claim that "The only thing that has changed is that selling LL access makes it a requirement to shrink the line in LL of people that have not paid so they can have more payers and they get the experience they pay for and are owed." is demonstrably false.

The LLs were overrun to the point that they weren't usable for some DAS holders. Too many people were given DAS, and too many exceptions to the party size were granted - it wasn't sustainable.

This is us. Our situation may not qualify for DAS in the future with adult son with mod/sev ASD -- that's Disney's decision on level of accommodation they deem appropriate -- we'll adjust to it.

The fact was LL queues were unsustainable for multiple stakeholders. Disney decided to course correct on that and that leaves a lot of magic being cut out for sure and less equity for those who have had a short end of the stick.

There still is equity being offered by Disney. Will they need further adjustment and tweaking? yes. Not all queues are easy to exit and that will need to tweaked by Disney as far as accommodations offered somewhere between AQR and DAS.

 

[nalababybear]

Businesses are in business to make money, period. So of course they're going to try/find new ways to increase profits.

But that consideration aside, those who are denied DAS aren't required to pay for lightning lanes, as other accommodations are being offered. If they don't like those accommodations, then of course, they can pay for LLs just like the non-disabled do. But it's a choice, not a mandate.

Remember, it's not about liking or not liking that's at hand -- it's whether it's a reasonable appropriate accommodation.

There's a fair large amount of daylight between AQR and DAS. Disneyland is already leveraging Rider switch as an option between the two. Perhaps something else will come about too. We don't know.

Multiple LL is a paid product; not an accommodation. If people choose to do that, great for them.

The level of accommodation for the need still needs to be met and there are situations it's not. Disney is making adjustments to this and it'll take some time to get there.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Remember, it's not about liking or not liking that's at hand -- it's whether it's a reasonable appropriate accommodation.

There's a fair large amount of daylight between AQR and DAS. Disneyland is already leveraging Rider switch as an option between the two. Perhaps something else will come about too. We don't know.

Multiple LL is a paid product; not an accommodation. If people choose to do that, great for them.

The level of accommodation for the need still needs to be met and there are situations it's not. Disney is making adjustments to this and it'll take some time to get there.

While in some rare cases it might be about the accommodations not working, in nearly every complaint I've seen, both here and on other sites, it's been about not liking that parties have to split up, or not liking that they may have to start in the line and rejoin later, that the new accommodations won't be as easy as DAS, etc.

I've actually not seen or read of a single case where people tried the new accommodations and they flat out didn't work for them...just that they didn't like them.

YMMV

 

[lanejudy]

I've actually not seen or read of a single case where people tried the new accommodations and they flat out didn't work for them...just that they didn't like them.

I have read a few reports of folks who did try the new accommodations, then reconnected with the Accessibility Team to discuss what didn't work for them. I don't know details, but they were able to have DAS issued because they had specific notes about times, places, what happened, etc. So yes, there are some. But I agree most I've seen are simply complaints or refusal to try anything else.

 

[Dumbotron]

That last statement is incorrect. Math doesn't work that way.

Pretty sure 1+1 still equals 2.

 

[nalababybear]

While in some rare cases it might be about the accommodations not working, in nearly every complaint I've seen, both here and on other sites, it's been about not liking that parties have to split up, or not liking that they may have to start in the line and rejoin later, that the new accommodations won't be as easy as DAS, etc.

I've actually not seen or read of a single case where people tried the new accommodations and they flat out didn't work for them...just that they didn't like them.

YMMV

All that talk about inconvenience and parties broken up; that's convenience speak and from your standpoint should simply filter out those -- yes plenty of them and see that on FB quite a lot.

Don't filter out the real needs that are not being met -- not so rare and you maybe glossing over those that really do have issues being lost in all the noise you see above that.

You can simply go back a few pages where we talk about combined medical issues where an EVC and internal medical issue is flaring; exiting a queue is difficult if not dangerous in a controlled situation. When having an internal flare -- that's putting multiple stakeholders into a bad situation, including running over a small child.

 

[nalababybear]

Pretty sure 1+1 still equals 2.

You're making the assumption that 1+1 is happening widespread and applying it to another issue where former DAS holders moving from the LL lane to the SB line makes the SB shorter -- it doesn't.

Two different issues.

 

[OurBigTrip]

All that talk about inconvenience and parties broken up; that's convenience speak and from your standpoint should simply filter out those -- yes plenty of them and see that on FB quite a lot.

Don't filter out the real needs that are not being met -- not so rare and you maybe glossing over those that really do have issues being lost in all the noise you see above that.

You can simply go back a few pages where we talk about combined medical issues where an EVC and internal medical issue is flaring; exiting a queue is difficult if not dangerous in a controlled situation. When having an internal flare -- that's putting multiple stakeholders into a bad situation, including running over a small child.

We can agree to disagree on the proportion of people being denied DAS who really need it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Not all queues are easy to exit and that will need to tweaked by Disney as far as accommodations offered somewhere between AQR and DAS.

Perhaps I'm just too cynical at this point, but given the physical aspect of renovating queues to make them more accessible for *exiting* mid-queue, I just don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

You're making the assumption that 1+1 is happening widespread and applying it to another issue where former DAS holders moving from the LL lane to the SB line makes the SB shorter -- it doesn't.

Two different issues.

Can you please explain your rationale here? I for one don’t understand your logic.

 

[Grim Grinning Ghostie]

My daughter uses a powerchair, and while we've never needed to leave a queue, it would be a challenge if we needed to in many situations.

This is true for anyone with or without DAS. Once you are past the LL entrance, the same issue occurs. It negates part of the "what if x happens and I need to leave the line" argument some use when applying for DAS. You'll still encounter the same scenario in LL queues, pre-shows, etc.

This isn't a DAS issue, just an overall accessibility issue. It's hard to retrofit architecture, it would just be nice to see lanes dedicated to letting people leave be added in, I guess. As you said, people need out NOW for all sorts of reasons.

 

[nalababybear]

Perhaps I'm just too cynical at this point, but given the physical aspect of renovating queues to make them more accessible for *exiting* mid-queue, I just don't see that happening any time soon.

Agree. That's why there's going to be some type of accommodation between AQR and DAS to address those needs unless Disney just pushes them back to DAS and defeat it's intended goal.

Can you please explain your rationale here? I for one don’t understand your logic.

See up thread on the math done earlier. DAS shifting to SB has no impact. Zero sum. Conflating the double dipping Ideology some do to prove the first impact, is well in itself double dipping

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

See up thread on the math done earlier. DAS shifting to SB has no impact. Zero sum. Conflating the double dipping Ideology some do to prove the first impact, is well in itself double dipping

I’m sorry but this is flat out wrong. I’ll give you four simple examples why, all perfectly “legal” under the Disney rules.

Person A gets DAS for Slinky, return in 2 hours. They do standby for Alien Swirling Saucers and Toy Story Mania while they “wait.” The SB line for both aliens and mania has just increased by 1 party. Therefore the standby wait for both of those rides just increased for everyone behind them, because otherwise Person A would not have been in that line.

Person B gets DAS for Tower of Terror, return in 1 hour/1pm. They wait out their hour while eating at the Sci Fi diner. If they hadn’t had DAS they would have still eaten at Sci Fi diner, but then join the SB line, so they are an hour “behind” where they would have been otherwise. Instead of getting off at 1:15pm, they now get off at 2:15pm. Between 1:15pm and 2:15pm they could have done a different ride, thereby adding a body to the line (SB or LL), which, by definition, slows down that line.

Person C books a DAS for Rise in 90 minutes, waits out his/her time browsing in Galaxy’s Edge, and then after riding Rise gets a DAS for Smugglers in another 45 minutes. Without DAS, assuming that the party still wants to browse in Galaxy’s Edge, they enter the Smugglers line much later, or perhaps doesn’t ride Smugglers at all because they run out of “time."

Person D books a DAS for Runaway Railway and waits out his time at First Aid. Without First Aid they would have probably had to rest elsewhere, and would have entered the SB line however much later that they needed to deal with their medical needs. And entering the line at 11am vs. 10am means that there is now 1 hour less that they could have been riding other rides.

Does every DAS user do this? No, of course not. And in no way am I condemning the DAS program. But to pretend that it doesn’t ever happen is disingenuous. Every time someone is in 2 places at once the effect will cascade though the rest of the day because it makes their particular day go faster than it would otherwise, or allows the guest to do more than they would be able to without it.

Also before you say “but a non-DAS guest can do so much more” I’m not arguing that is true or not. But it is a fact that the DAS user can accomplish more with DAS than they would be able to without DAS (even if that just means that they can ride 2 rides in a given day vs. 1), which then of course impacts the total aggregate wait of all standby lines across the park.

If there were only 1 DAS party, or even 100 DAS parties (like VIP tours) the impact would be negligible. And none of us knows the true number of DAS guests in the parks at a given day. But Disney certainly does, and Disney has decided that the impact to park operations is great enough that a change needed to be made.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

See up thread on the math done earlier. DAS shifting to SB has no impact. Zero sum. Conflating the double dipping Ideology some do to prove the first impact, is well in itself double dipping

Person E can only spend 3 hours/day in the park. With DAS they can ride 6 rides because they can ride SB in 1 line while “waiting” their DAS time out in another. Standby only they can only ride 4 rides. So that’s 2 SB lines that had extra riders in them.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Person E can only spend 3 hours/day in the park. With DAS they can ride 6 rides because they can ride SB in 1 line while “waiting” their DAS time out in another. Standby only they can only ride 4 rides. So that’s 2 SB lines that had extra riders in them.

Person F has to spend 30 minutes “recovering” from a ride by sitting in the shade. With DAS they are already “in line” for their next ride. Without they would be starting 30 minutes later. That would cascade pretty quickly throughout the day in terms of number of rides ridden.

Again, in no way am I saying that DAS is bad or that people are somehow taking advantage of the system. Those are all perfectly reasonable uses of DAS. But the idea that DAS has no impact on SB wait times seems quite unreasonable based on any of the examples above.