Cost Of Living Today versus 30 years ago

cardaway said:
Exactly.

Don't confuse what you choose to let into your budget with what needs to be there.

It's not just that. Not by any means. I won't get into specifics, but to my knowledge, I make more than the average American my age. Not by much, but nonetheless.

Between $12,000 a year for rent, $6,000 a year for insurance, $4,000 for car payments, $2,000 a year for heat and hot water, electric, cable, gas, food, phone - There's not much to go around for what I would "choose" to let into my budget.
 
chobie said:
No not saying that' I'm just giving a reason for why its harder to get by these days other than that everyone is lazy and materialistic. Many people work very hard and still can't get by. It called the working poor and their are millions of them.

I agree with you on that. I was just curious why you think there's not more healthcare available now than 30 years ago. Yes, it's more expensive and yes, it's probably out of control, but I'd argue that services per dollar, we're close to the same level that we were 30 years ago, when most folks paid little for healthcare, but their primary option for healthcare was the town doctor, who could give them some asprin and send them home.

:love1: :love1: :love1: :love1:

...smileys added by my 5 year old, who's home sick today :blush: :rotfl2:
 
Bob Slydell said:
I agree with you on that. I was just curious why you think there's not more healthcare available now than 30 years ago. Yes, it's more expensive and yes, it's probably out of control, but I'd argue that services per dollar, we're close to the same level that we were 30 years ago, when most folks paid little for healthcare, but their primary option for healthcare was the town doctor, who could give them some asprin and send them home.

:love1: :love1: :love1: :love1:

...smileys added by my 5 year old, who's home sick today :blush: :rotfl2:

Aww :lovestruc kissy Cam :rotfl:

Your post pretty much sums up to me why we really can't compare col between now and further back than I'd say 10yrs ago.
 
Bob Slydell said:
I agree with you on that. I was just curious why you think there's not more healthcare available now than 30 years ago. Yes, it's more expensive and yes, it's probably out of control, but I'd argue that services per dollar, we're close to the same level that we were 30 years ago, when most folks paid little for healthcare, but their primary option for healthcare was the town doctor, who could give them some asprin and send them home.

:love1: :love1: :love1: :love1:

...smileys added by my 5 year old, who's home sick today :blush: :rotfl2:


30 years ago my parents had five kids who all needed allergy shots and were constantly getting strep throat, ear infections and one child that was accident prone. They paid for everything out of pocket on a modest income and it was not a big stress for them. I have had to fight my HMO to pay for an emergency room visit when my toddler fell and needed stitches over his eye. They said should have driven him 20 miles to their facility rather than 3 miles to the local hospital.
 

boomhauer said:
It's not just that. Not by any means. I won't get into specifics, but to my knowledge, I make more than the average American my age. Not by much, but nonetheless.

Between $12,000 a year for rent, $6,000 a year for insurance, $4,000 for car payments, $2,000 a year for heat and hot water, electric, cable, gas, food, phone - There's not much to go around for what I would "choose" to let into my budget.


No offense but...

Car payment - choice
Cable - choice
Gas - different based on different choices

I hear you on the rest, but I think the numbers show it to be pretty close. Even the cost of extras hasn't went up that much if you look at the numbers. Things that were xx 30 years ago are not much more than the cost of XX + inflation.
 
I think that higher education is a lot more costly nowadays and will only get worse. I also think that many vacation spots are much more expensive than they used to be and it's much harder to travel to many foreign destinations than it was at one time.
 
30 years ago i was just shy of 45 and in high school. i recall that a "nice" date (movie, popcorn/drinks/candy and dinner at the local pizzaria) would cost less than 20.00. if you bought lunch at school, $1 dollar per day was plenty for lunch plus a decent snack. clothes at our local department store could be regularly found on the clearance rack with tops at 3.99/1.99-but girl's pants were the pricy item (but it was the day of designer jeans and "dittos" :goodvibes ). 3 years later when i went to college my entire tuition/fees for a semester was less than 300.00 (always paid more for books than the actual classes).

i started my first "real" job at about 16, and i think minimum wage in california was around 2.60 per hour (we were elated when it was mandated to be raised in 3 increments ending at 3.35 per hour a year or so later).

i KNOW grocery prices were much more in standing with the average wage (my mom although she does'nt cook anymore still reads the ads, and i regularly hear "oh my god, do you know how much per pound i used to pay for that when you were in highschool?!" :teeth: ). and you might be interested to know that public assistance payments (afdc "welfare") are purportunatly lower now than they were back then (i went to work for social services in the late 80's and the amount that would be received for a 3 person family is now less than we issued for 2 people in 1988-the feds re-calculated the amount per person several times in the 90's and it has never caught back up).

i recall in high school economics they taught us that we should never pay more than one weeks take home pay for housing (which is why most of my friends who lived on their own after graduation had 1 or 2 roommates).

i think beyond the fact that an average household budget includes items my parents would never have thought to have (even if they were available-paying for tv? if my dad had'nt passed away before the advent of cable i know the concept would have killed him), there was a different mind set financialy. while some bought a home and then moved into another, the majority of my friends lived in the same house the had been born in (or if they had moved due the dad's new job, it was comparably priced to the one they owned before)-and their parents stayed in that house for decades (still), so while housing prices went up-you were paying a mortgage that was maybe 20 years old and a much lower percentage of your income. as far as credit cards went, there were still people who abused them but you could write off all of the interest on your taxes each year (so in some cases it put you financialy ahead to use them, i mean-if you were earning interest on your savings account why take money out if you could put it on the credit card and end up not paying anything for the use?). large ticket items were in allot of cases much more expensive back then (electronics, washers/dryers and the like) but they were built to last much longer so the investment in one would stretch out for years (i don't know of many people who have the same tv, fridge, washer/dryer they had 15 years ago-but that was the norm and the expectation back then). and cars-while there was always one neighbor who bought new/ traded in every couple of years, in most cases buying a NEW car was a major accomplishment that might happen once or twice in 20 years. the cars were kept forever by their original owners (and then passed on to the kids, the grandkids (my first car was a 65 mustang we bought from a family friend who was the original owner, my second a 71 v.w aquired the same way).

no way now do average wages keep up with the cost of living increases each year (back then i recall that in government/union negotiations it was strongly tied to contracts, now it's whatever the market will bear).
 
DH and I just bought our starter home in August. It's 1600 sqft (built in '47) and the monthly payment (mortgage, interest, taxes and homeowners insurance) is 28% of our net monthly income. We put 20% cash down (we got the funds from sale of my condo). Not all of us 20-somethings are buying 4000 dream homes! Our problem was putting the wedding on the credit card, but that will be paid off in 18 months or so, lesson learned!!!
 
cardaway said:
No offense but...

Car payment - choice
Cable - choice
Gas - different based on different choices

I hear you on the rest, but I think the numbers show it to be pretty close. Even the cost of extras hasn't went up that much if you look at the numbers. Things that were xx 30 years ago are not much more than the cost of XX + inflation.

Cable is a choice, yes. We chose to watch TV, and sadly, TV's look dreadful nowadays without cable.

Car Payment - Not a choice. I need a car. A reliable one. I'm hardly driving around in a Lexus.

Gas - Yes, it's different. Yesterday, I paid $2.32 a gallon.

Perfect example - My dad 30 years ago paid $100 a month for rent. I pay about 10x that much. I don't make 10x what my dad did 30 years ago.
 
Planogirl said:
I think that higher education is a lot more costly nowadays and will only get worse. I also think that many vacation spots are much more expensive than they used to be and it's much harder to travel to many foreign destinations than it was at one time.

But it is right to include that stuff as the cost of living? Also, are not many more people getting higher education that 30 years ago. They can't all be from the elite families, some have to comparable to the people 30 years ago.
 
30 years ago i was just shy of 45 and in high school. i recall that a "nice" date (movie, popcorn/drinks/candy and dinner at the local pizzaria) would cost less than 20.00. if you bought lunch at school, $1 dollar per day was plenty for lunch plus a decent snack. clothes at our local department store could be regularly found on the clearance rack with tops at 3.99/1.99-but girl's pants were the pricy item (but it was the day of designer jeans and "dittos" :goodvibes ). 3 years later when i went to college my entire tuition/fees for a semester was less than 300.00 (always paid more for books than the actual classes).

i started my first "real" job at about 16, and i think minimum wage in california was around 2.60 per hour (we were elated when it was mandated to be raised in 3 increments ending at 3.35 per hour a year or so later).

i KNOW grocery prices were much more in standing with the average wage (my mom although she does'nt cook anymore still reads the ads, and i regularly hear "oh my god, do you know how much per pound i used to pay for that when you were in highschool?!" :teeth: ). and you might be interested to know that public assistance payments (afdc "welfare") are purportunatly lower now than they were back then (i went to work for social services in the late 80's and the amount that would be received for a 3 person family is now less than we issued for 2 people in 1988-the feds re-calculated the amount per person several times in the 90's and it has never caught back up).

i recall in high school economics they taught us that we should never pay more than one weeks take home pay for housing (which is why most of my friends who lived on their own after graduation had 1 or 2 roommates).

i think beyond the fact that an average household budget includes items my parents would never have thought to have (even if they were available-paying for tv? if my dad had'nt passed away before the advent of cable i know the concept would have killed him), there was a different mind set financialy. while some bought a home and then moved into another, the majority of my friends lived in the same house the had been born in (or if they had moved due the dad's new job, it was comparably priced to the one they owned before)-and their parents stayed in that house for decades (still), so while housing prices went up-you were paying a mortgage that was maybe 20 years old and a much lower percentage of your income. as far as credit cards went, there were still people who abused them but you could write off all of the interest on your taxes each year (so in some cases it put you financialy ahead to use them, i mean-if you were earning interest on your savings account why take money out if you could put it on the credit card and end up not paying anything for the use?). large ticket items were in allot of cases much more expensive back then (electronics, washers/dryers and the like) but they were built to last much longer so the investment in one would stretch out for years (i don't know of many people who have the same tv, fridge, washer/dryer they had 15 years ago-but that was the norm and the expectation back then). and cars-while there was always one neighbor who bought new/ traded in every couple of years, in most cases buying a NEW car was a major accomplishment that might happen once or twice in 20 years. the cars were kept forever by their original owners (and then passed on to the kids, the grandkids (my first car was a 65 mustang we bought from a family friend who was the original owner, my second a 71 v.w aquired the same way).

no way now do average wages keep up with the cost of living increases each year (back then i recall that in government/union negotiations it was strongly tied to contracts, now it's whatever the market will bear).
 
Planogirl said:
I also think that many vacation spots are much more expensive than they used to be and it's much harder to travel to many foreign destinations than it was at one time.

Thirty years ago, my parents had to travel almost exclusively via car because they could not afford airfare. There weren't any discount airlines. And there wasn't any internet for comparison shopping. My Mom said that cross-country flights were a minimum of $1000 per seat. Now, I can fly cross-country for $300 per person. I can find a decent (clean, safe) hotel in most vacation destinations for $100-$200 per night, which seems perfectly reasonable to me.

If it's harder to travel, that's probably because more people are traveling than traveled 30 years ago.

30 years ago, a vacation was a trip to Grandma's house or to go camping in a tent. Today, a vacation is 7 nights at DisneyWorld or a 10 night cruise in the Caribbean. (Using actual examples comparing my childhood vacations to my family's vacations this year.)
 
boomhauer said:
Car Payment - Not a choice. I need a car. A reliable one. I'm hardly driving around in a Lexus.

To buy a car with credit is a choice. I made the same choice, also not a Lexus, but I admit I could have kept my pefectly reliable, paid for, 92 Civic rather than trading up to a new car.

I sold the 92 Civic for $2000. A friend got a perfect, completely reliable car for $2000. Lots of cars out there just like it, and it got better gas milleage than my new car, and lately I've been wishing I held off on that decision.
 
cardaway said:
To buy a car with credit is a choice. I made the same choice, also not a Lexus, but I admit I could have kept my pefectly reliable, paid for, 92 Civic rather than trading up to a new car.

I sold the 92 Civic for $2000. A friend got a perfect, completely reliable car for $2000. Lots of cars out there just like it, and it got better gas milleage than my new car, and lately I've been wishing I held off on that decision.

I've had 3 used cars - All pieces of crap, that started out fine, that I sunk enough money into to buy a brand new car.

Yes, it's a choice. But when you've had the experience with used cars that I've had, it's sort of lose-lose situation. Do I wanna make the big car payment or the big car repair bill?
 
Vacations now are a lot more luxurious than they were 30yrs ago. I'm 31 - growing up we spent summers on Cape Cod and the occasional road trip. I did go to Disney a couple of times but only once as a family vacation in 1985 - the other trips were with my Grandmother who was a snowbird. My Mother is 50 and her vacations were summers on Cape Cod and the occasional road trip to visit family in Maine and my grandparents are pretty wealthy. My Father didn't have any vacations until he enlisted in the Navy.

Nowadays, especially since the invention of the internet, people seem to be travelling farther away and staying at much more luxurious locations than Grandma's summer home or a tent at the KOA.
 
boomhauer said:
Gas - Yes, it's different. Yesterday, I paid $2.32 a gallon.

In inflation adjusted dollars, that is less than we paid 30 years ago.
 
on healthcare costs it gets realy strange. working folks with employer backed plans are now paying what i consider massive amounts for their share, but then i look at co-pays in general. although we did'nt have it "kaiser medical" was the primary plan in the area i grew up in and everyone knew that the members paid $5.00 per visit. i have friends, neighbors who are members of kaiser and still pay $5.00 per visit (my co-pay with healthnet is $5.00). given they are paying 500 times the premium for it-but that is driven by what their employer decides to contribute.

i don't recall most of the insurance plans back then including pharmacy or optical or orthopedic devices (need crutches-you borrowed them from the neighbor) it was fully out of pocket. and dental insurance? i did'nt know anyone who had that (still that way with orthodonics now :rolleyes: ).

another item (at least in our area) that has gone up horribly is the cost to work. no way was one person paying as much as 30% of their income for childcare for 2 kids (using the figure of some of my working friends-4000.00 per month income, 1200 goes to childcare). and bridge tolls went from 40 cents in the early 90's to $1.00 in the late 90's, but have jumped to $2.00 then $3.00 in just the past 2 years.

on-and on the subject of housing costs...i nearly died recently when i grabbed the newspaper in my hometown. there was an article about the city funding "low income housing"-a bunch of terrible apartments were being converted into condos (no structural changes-just clean up and some new appliances) that were going to be price structured to be affordable for low income families (and they anticipated they would have to do a lottery based on the response)-starting price: $379,000.00 :earseek: :earseek: we're talking for a 800 sq. foot-2 bedroom place built in the 50's :earseek: the city was going to fund to lower the amount needed for a down and keep the interest lower than norm-but what low income wage earner can afford that kind of a mortgage???? (this is a town where there is very little middle ground with income, you are either a big bucks earner or pulling in minimum wage).
 
I grew up in a middle class family and our lifestyle was nowhere near as extravagant as ours today. Vacations consisted of camping at the lake rather than 8 days at Disney World. As far as activities went, I was on the swimteam and drill team. My parents wouldn't have dreamed of shelling out what basically amounts to an additional car payment for me to participate in competitive sports. Furthermore, as others have stated, there just wasn't as much 'stuff' to blow money on....cellphones, nanos, Nintendo DS. It was a huge deal to me when I got my own phone for my room. Not a private line...just a phone in my room! Also, my parents didn't have college funds for either of us. Both my sister and I lived at home and worked our way through college. My parent's idea of helping us out with our college expenses was not charging us rent! :rotfl:

With the exception of college, that was a very typical middle-class lifestyle back in the 70's and 80's. I remember how shocked all of my friends were when I got a brand new Camaro for my 16th birthday. Everyone thought we must be rich. :rotfl: I was commenting to DH just the other day how I've noticed that you don't see as many teenagers working in fast food establishments or grocery stores anymore. He explained that they don't have to - their parents pay for everything. I suppose that is true. Expectations have changed.
 
barkley said:
on-and on the subject of housing costs...i nearly died recently when i grabbed the newspaper in my hometown. there was an article about the city funding "low income housing"-a bunch of terrible apartments were being converted into condos (no structural changes-just clean up and some new appliances) that were going to be price structured to be affordable for low income families (and they anticipated they would have to do a lottery based on the response)-starting price: $379,000.00 :earseek: :earseek: we're talking for a 800 sq. foot-2 bedroom place built in the 50's :earseek: the city was going to fund to lower the amount needed for a down and keep the interest lower than norm-but what low income wage earner can afford that kind of a mortgage???? (this is a town where there is very little middle ground with income, you are either a big bucks earner or pulling in minimum wage).

WOW, that is unbelievable. And that's why I am glad I live in the Southeast. Around here you can get a very nice house for 400,000.
 
My father retired with a very nice pension plan with his company. This was given to all employees as a benefit. Now, most of us must contribute a portion of our own salaries to a 401k (or similar)...and the company (usually) matches a small percentage of that. I wonder if I will ever be able to retire at all based on this. ???
 





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