Cost Comparison

[zavandor]

I've spent 3-4 months on the Disboards reading everything i could about DVC and resale before making my first offer.
If you factor that in the purchase cost, it will rise quite a bit.
But I would suggest to do the same also to someone willing to purchase direct. It's important to know everything possible about the program before buying, anyhow you do it, or you are going forward a big, costly mistake.

 

[Tunseeker1]

I am one of the few people that will say that I have no problem paying for the ability to be lazy.
I pay people to clean my house.
I pay lawn people.
I pay for valet when I could just park myself.
I take my cars in for services and to get washed.

All of these things that I pay for allow me to spend a lot more time with my family doing things we like (going to the zoo when it's almost empty rocks).
I don't see spending a few hours on a computer as anything that would interfere with my family time, which is the only thing worth more then anything else.

I do see the shoebox full of cash you can save being able to actually make a difference in my family time, so I say get a good deal in resale and run with it.

But on the other hand if you spend time bidding on a resale property that costs more then direct, shame on you for not doing more research.

 

[crisi]

I think you are putting too much work into resale.

If you pay just a few dollars more per point than the "wonderful deals" you'll still save a lot of money from buying direct, and, unless you are really picky, it won't take too long to find a contract. If you need 172 points (not 173 or 172!) with an April use year, fully loaded, at BCV - yeah, you might wait a while. And if you feel the need to get that contract for the cheapest possible price - you may never close and go through a lot of work. But if you are looking for "between 150 and 175 points, its ok some points are used up, I don't care what use year" at BCV (and you'd consider BWV), you can probably have paperwork in your hands by the end of the week and be closing in 60 days.

We did our research to decide to buy on day one, made an offer on day 2, had the seller back out on day 2, made another offer on day 2, then closed about 60 days later. And I did it all from work on busy work days.

 

[Lynne M]

I've been reading a lot on this board and have noticed a repeating mantra of "buy resale" from many posters. There are definately pros and cons to both resale and direct. Many have been very helpful in providing their methods and/or formulas for evalulating the cost/benefit of various contracts and comparing that to the cost of direct.

I've also noticed that those trying to convince others that resale is the far better option often using phrases like "it takes patience," "you'll have to spend some time," etc.

So, what I'm wondering is if anyone calculates the cost of their time into the cost of buying resale along with the standard point cost, closing costs, etc.? Say you spend a total of 100 hours before you find, close and see the points in your account for that perfect contract. At $20 per hour (someone making an annual salary of $45k makes more than that per hour...so for many, I'm guessing that is far less than your hourly rate), that's an additional $2k for the contract.

I'm guessing that for some it is a form of recreation in itself (the thrill of the hunt!). But am I the only one who questions the time investment required vs the cost savings?

I suspect you're misunderstanding what posters mean by 'it takes patience'. It means that a resale purchase takes a longer period of time to reach completion than a direct purchase, including a period of some weeks before you can use your points when you buy resale, as opposed to being able to book much sooner when you buy direct. Some people find that wait very frustrating.

The time involved in a resale purchase is mostly waiting for others to do their thing.....waiting for sellers to accept the offer, waiting for Disney to decide on ROFR, waiting for the points to be added to your account.

Yes, there's some time spent looking for a contract, but I think a lot of people just contact a timeshare reseller, tell them what they want, and then the reseller notifies them when a contract that meets their needs comes on the market.

So no, I don't think anywhere near 100 hours of actual work time by the customer is involved in a resale purchase.

 

[tb1972]

I've been reading a lot on this board and have noticed a repeating mantra of "buy resale" from many posters. There are definately pros and cons to both resale and direct. Many have been very helpful in providing their methods and/or formulas for evalulating the cost/benefit of various contracts and comparing that to the cost of direct.

I've also noticed that those trying to convince others that resale is the far better option often using phrases like "it takes patience," "you'll have to spend some time," etc.

So, what I'm wondering is if anyone calculates the cost of their time into the cost of buying resale along with the standard point cost, closing costs, etc.? Say you spend a total of 100 hours before you find, close and see the points in your account for that perfect contract. At $20 per hour (someone making an annual salary of $45k makes more than that per hour...so for many, I'm guessing that is far less than your hourly rate), that's an additional $2k for the contract.

I'm guessing that for some it is a form of recreation in itself (the thrill of the hunt!). But am I the only one who questions the time investment required vs the cost savings?

For us, there was a very minimal amount of time involved with purchasing re sale. We bid on one contract through the TSS & the seller accepted.

I wrote a check for the deposit & dropped it in the mail. Later I went to the bank to get a cashier's check for closing & mailed it. Seriously I think the whole ordeal took 1-2 hours of time! Well worth it to save thousands of dollars.

 

[smootenloopers]

I suppose if you really need to buy today and vacation tomorrow, then direct is the way to go. For our family, saving thousands of dollars buying resale is worth the wait and to be honest, we are talking about leasing a hotel room, not buying a house.

Never said I did. I was asking if anyone had a method of factoring time in. OBVIOUSLY it is worth it for many people to buy resale or nobody would bother. And, um, yeah, I know it's not a house.

Sorry to sound cynical, but you'll need to find another rationalization for buying direct.

I wasn't looking to rationalize, I was simply wondering if anyone tried to factor in time spent. And if so, how they went about it. If you'll read my post carefully, there is no indication if I've bought resale, direct, both or neither. Why would you automatically assume I'm trying to rationalize something when mearly asking a question?

I've spent 3-4 months on the Disboards reading everything i could about DVC and resale before making my first offer. If you factor that in the purchase cost, it will rise quite a bit. But I would suggest to do the same also to someone willing to purchase direct. It's important to know everything possible about the program before buying, anyhow you do it, or you are going forward a big, costly mistake.

I agree completely. Time spent researching DVC to gain information which would lead to a decision to buy (whether resale or direct) or not buy would not be counted as it is an "equal cost" to either method of purchase.

I suspect you're misunderstanding what posters mean by 'it takes patience'.

No, not really. I understood exactly what they were saying. But it sure seems many have misunderstood what I was asking.

So no, I don't think anywhere near 100 hours of actual work time by the customer is involved in a resale purchase.

No, I didn't really think it was 100 hours either, but I also make more than $20/hour. Just numbers picked to provide easy math for an example of what I meant.

_____________

Thanks for the responses everyone. I didn't really get an answer to my original question (except perhaps in the lack of an answer).

But I've learned not to use the word "direct" in a question. There are certainly those that get hostile and/or condescending towards anyone they think might in any way be entertaining the idea of buying direct. I've certainly seen that over and over on other posts, but I thought I had phrased the question benignly enough to avoid that problem. I wonder, if I had phrased the question as "does anyone factor in time spent when comparing different resale contracts" if I'd have less people basically telling me I'm an impatient idoit?

 

[montyz81]

I probably spent a total effort of 3 1/2 hours so far in the process of buying my resale contract. 1 hour to look through all the resale sites and plug them into a DVC spreadsheet I downloaded. 5 minutes to call and make the offer. 5 minutes on the counter offer which we accepted with the stipulation they pay closing costs. 30 minutes to read, sign and fax back the contract. 10 minutes for the two calls I made to inquire where we were in the ROFR process. 1 1/2 to get all the closing paperwork signed (trip to my husbands office for his signature, to the bank for the check and then fed ex). Now all the time spent on these board I don't count as they were not instrumental in the purchase process, but they have been a great support group through the process. I figure I have about another 1/2 hour left which is to call ms for my member number and get set up for my reservations.

If I did a DVC tour and bought direct after the tour I figure that would probably total to 3 to 4 hours of my time too.

Is there a place to find said spreadsheet. I am just starting the process now.

 

[princesscinderella]

Yes I googled it, type in DVC cost calculator and a link to mousesavers.com comes up. There is good info about the calculations and a link to the spreadsheet.

 

[DougEMG]

So, what I'm wondering is if anyone calculates the cost of their time into the cost of buying resale along with the standard point cost, closing costs, etc.?

The only point in doing this is if you actually would have been spending that time earning money. I doubt that this is very applicable for most people. It is certainly not applicable for me. I can hunt for a contract while sitting on the couch watching TV.

Now I have contractor friends who get paid by the hour. When they go on vacation they consider their lost hourly wages a cost to be applied to the total cost of the vacation. Naturally they prefer to vacation when they are between contracts and out of work.

 

[crisi]

The only point in doing this is if you actually would have been spending that time earning money. I doubt that this is very applicable for most people. It is certainly not applicable for me. I can hunt for a contract while sitting on the couch watching TV.

Now I have contractor friends who get paid by the hour. When they go on vacation they consider their lost hourly wages a cost to be applied to the total cost of the vacation. Naturally they prefer to vacation when they are between contracts and out of work.

Yeah, most of us are probably salaried, and therefore the type of "time per hour" calculations aren't applicable. But even when I was a contractor getting paid by the hour, I could take five or ten minutes here and there to scan for applicable resales and send off an email. And I wasn't working sixteen hour days (usually).

But really, the amount of time it took us to buy resale over direct was about thirty minutes, and back then (it was about a dozen years ago now) we saved over $3000. I'm paid pretty well - my husband is paid better, but neither of us is paid $6000 an hour.

HOWEVER, we weren't terribly picky or looking for something rare. We wanted 150 or 160 points. Use year wasn't important. We weren't going to travel for a bit so we weren't looking for banked points, and even next years points could be eaten into. At the time we bought, our resale choices onsite were pretty much OKW or BWV and we offered asking on an OKW contract, the owners decided not to sell after all, and our resale agent recommended a similarly priced BWV contract (it lacked the banked points, which we didn't care about anyway). If you are looking for something very specific, it may be worth buying direct. If you are even a little flexible, resale.

 

[permavac]

...Thanks for the responses everyone. I didn't really get an answer to my original question (except perhaps in the lack of an answer)...

I'm sorry for your feelings of frustration Tammy. I guess, for me, I did think I was answering your question but now that I look at the specific questions you had in your original post, I realize that my comments are also guilty of not addressing what you specifically asked. I will try again:

...So, what I'm wondering is if anyone calculates the cost of their time into the cost of buying resale along with the standard point cost, closing costs, etc.?...

No. Purely for the simple fact that no one is offering to pay me for my "down" time. If you do your negotiating during your "down" time (which I did) then there is zero cost of your time - in dollars. Certainly I have heard the expression "What's your time worth?" but doing this sort of "work" is very subjective. If I had to buy DVC resales for a living, I would charge $10 an hour. If I had to change dirty diapers for a living, I would charge $10,000 an hour...

...Say you spend a total of 100 hours before you find, close and see the points in your account for that perfect contract. At $20 per hour (someone making an annual salary of $45k makes more than that per hour...so for many, I'm guessing that is far less than your hourly rate), that's an additional $2k for the contract...

As Doug mentioned, contractors who can bill 24-hours a day may be the people to direct this question to. Or, if anyone actually had to take off time from work to deal with negotiating a resale, then they could give you a better understanding of factoring lost work revenue into the equation.

...But am I the only one who questions the time investment required vs the cost savings?

With this, it seems that you are asking a second question - by taking away the "money" component and, to me, it is the more viable question for most people. Does anyone feel that they were wasting their "down" time on the whole resale process...? My answer is no. I would say that it took about 60 minutes of my time in total speaking on the phone with my broker on numerous occasions to put together two resale deals. Phone time with a DVC Guide would probably have been much less, but I do not feel that the additional time I spent in this regard was a waste. In addition to that, I had to print out paperwork, read paperwork and sign and return paperwork but I would have done all of that if I had bought direct from Disney as well so that time spent is a wash. Certainly, time spent waiting through the ROFR period and then the resale closing is a heck of a lot longer than the time waiting for a direct through Disney closing and is the bulk of your time "spent". But "waiting" is very different than actively "working" so I couldn't begin to guess how to quantify that - unless I look at the money I saved as "payment" for waiting (and conversely a direct buyer could see it as paying to not have to wait)? There are other variables here as well and that's what other posters mentioned. There is no harm in waiting if I'm not in any sort of hurry at all (which I personally am not). If I were in a hurry then the time spent waiting on a resale to close probably wouldn't be worth it. I guess the worst part is going through all of the paperwork and phone calls only to have Disney ROFR your resale contract (which did happen to one of mine). So, in that respect, the time I spent "working" on the ROFRed contract was a "waste" (say 30 minutes, plus the time it took to print, read, fill out/sign, witness, and copy the paperwork - about another 60 minutes).

For me, I would have to say that the investment of my time (both working and waiting) is definitely worth the money that I saved buying resale. Buying into DVC (via resale) is not a dirty job and while I wouldn't say I felt any "thrill of the hunt", it was not an unenjoyable process.

I hope this answers your question and I apologize if any of my own comments seemed to be antagonistic. I personally don't think anyone here was out to call you an "idiot". I just think your specific questions may have been misinterpreted in the context of your background comments. I also see that many people on these boards do encourage people to buy direct IF certain conditions need to be met. People need to do what's right for them - direct or resale - it's all good

Terri

 

[ELMC]

I've been reading a lot on this board and have noticed a repeating mantra of "buy resale" from many posters. There are definately pros and cons to both resale and direct. Many have been very helpful in providing their methods and/or formulas for evalulating the cost/benefit of various contracts and comparing that to the cost of direct.

I've also noticed that those trying to convince others that resale is the far better option often using phrases like "it takes patience," "you'll have to spend some time," etc.

So, what I'm wondering is if anyone calculates the cost of their time into the cost of buying resale along with the standard point cost, closing costs, etc.? Say you spend a total of 100 hours before you find, close and see the points in your account for that perfect contract. At $20 per hour (someone making an annual salary of $45k makes more than that per hour...so for many, I'm guessing that is far less than your hourly rate), that's an additional $2k for the contract.

I'm guessing that for some it is a form of recreation in itself (the thrill of the hunt!). But am I the only one who questions the time investment required vs the cost savings?

So a lot has been talked about since you originally posted this question. One of the comments was that you didn't feel like you received a fair answer. So I'll try.

With regards to the "it takes patience" comments, I think they pertain to people who are looking to get a rock bottom deal or a very specific point total and use year. I think it would be very easy to click on The Timeshare Store banner above, make a full price offer on a contract and still save money over buying direct with very little expenditure of time. Yes, I know, that doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to share that thought. Keep reading...

To answer your question (see, I told you I'd get there), I have considered the time investment vs. cost savings. I've considered it, but I don't think I've gone so far as to place a number value on it. Here's why. I am self employed. Which technically means that the more I work the more I can potentially make. So any time I take out of my day to say, sleep, eat, watch tv or partake in any social activity, I am technically costing myself the opportunity to make money. That being said, I view the time I spend on the DIS as well as looking for resale contracts to be a hobby...along the lines of playing golf or taking the dog for a walk. Once I've made that distinction in my mind, it is easy for me to ignore the time value component of what I'm doing and just credit it to the "living a balanced life" column. Technically speaking I could work more hours in a day, but that comes with a cost as well. I guess it's all how you look at it.

I hope I answered your question.

As for the direct vs. resale debate, my position is that if you buy direct you are paying a premium for convenience. If you are aware that's what you're doing and you don't mind...go for it.

 

[marynvince]

I read the OP and thought: The amount of time to do the research is so inconsequential that putting a dollar figure to it and weighing that as a cost component vs. the savings of direct vs. resale is pointless. The 100hr time estimate is in my opinion far fetched, although maybe some people do take that much research to feel they can make an informed opinion. If that much time is required, I doubt said person is making $20 per hour

Take advantage of the research done. Take 10 hours at $100per hour. Resale is still a better deal as you can save 50%

 

[DougEMG]

If someone wants to pay me $20/hr to hunt down resale contracts for them while they are off doing something that pays more, sign me up

 

[AllieV]

That's a depressing thought, OP. Based on this theory, my not-yet-purchased contract has already cost me $1000 per point.

Doug, you crack me up, though you might be worth the $20 per hour.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I've been reading a lot on this board and have noticed a repeating mantra of "buy resale" from many posters. There are definately pros and cons to both resale and direct. Many have been very helpful in providing their methods and/or formulas for evalulating the cost/benefit of various contracts and comparing that to the cost of direct.

I've also noticed that those trying to convince others that resale is the far better option often using phrases like "it takes patience," "you'll have to spend some time," etc.

So, what I'm wondering is if anyone calculates the cost of their time into the cost of buying resale along with the standard point cost, closing costs, etc.? Say you spend a total of 100 hours before you find, close and see the points in your account for that perfect contract. At $20 per hour (someone making an annual salary of $45k makes more than that per hour...so for many, I'm guessing that is far less than your hourly rate), that's an additional $2k for the contract.

I'm guessing that for some it is a form of recreation in itself (the thrill of the hunt!). But am I the only one who questions the time investment required vs the cost savings?

Nope - not much factoring of time. For me the majority of my time was researching DVC itself and is applicable both to direct or resale. It's something I would do for any large purchase.

As far as the actual resale purchase time that was minimal and actually very similar to when I bought direct points. When buying direct it was during a period that DVC was coming up with different offers or offering specials if you attended presentation etc. When I think about it I probably spent more time buying direct. The time for resale is really concentrated in the waiting for ROFR and waiting to close but those do not require active time - ie, you may still continue to work while DVC decides if they want to pass or not.

These days, like reading the DIS I also glance at the resale companies but not because I'm actively looking. It's just an interest.

 

[jkersman01]

I don't think it is proper to place a $ amount on your personal time and then equate that as an oppportunity cost unless you can actually work an additional x hours.

Here's an example. Saturday afternoon a 2pm. Child is taking a nap. You're watching TV. You think to yourself, for the next hour, I'll browse contracts and maybe email my agent to make an offer or 2. Assume your time is $50 an hour. In your analysis, that's $50 you invested into this. To say that it actually COSTS you $50 is to say that for that hour while your child was napping, you could have actually worked and gotten paid $50. Only then, in my opinion, is it fair to factor in your time in that manner.

If you are taking time out of your work day (i.e. working 6 hours instead of 8 if you're an hourly wage person) or taking up time that you otherwise would have worked (maybe an hour or 2 on a Saturday if you're an hourly wage person) is it fair to run that analysis.

 

[ELMC]

These days, like reading the DIS I also glance at the resale companies but not because I'm actively looking. It's just an interest.

I agree. I have learned so much about DVC and resales during my research that there definitely is a value to it.

I don't think it is proper to place a $ amount on your personal time and then equate that as an oppportunity cost unless you can actually work an additional x hours.

Here's an example. Saturday afternoon a 2pm. Child is taking a nap. You're watching TV. You think to yourself, for the next hour, I'll browse contracts and maybe email my agent to make an offer or 2. Assume your time is $50 an hour. In your analysis, that's $50 you invested into this. To say that it actually COSTS you $50 is to say that for that hour while your child was napping, you could have actually worked and gotten paid $50. Only then, in my opinion, is it fair to factor in your time in that manner.

If you are taking time out of your work day (i.e. working 6 hours instead of 8 if you're an hourly wage person) or taking up time that you otherwise would have worked (maybe an hour or 2 on a Saturday if you're an hourly wage person) is it fair to run that analysis.

Very well said. I think that the theory of opportunity cost is valid, but I also think that people in general tend to over apply it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Say you spend a total of 100 hours before you find, close and see the points

There is no way it takes more than a couple of hours of "active time", tops, to purchase a resale contract. In exchange, you easily save between four and five figures.

Very few of us have hourly billing rates that can match that effective compensation rate.

Most of the "patience" required is just waiting for things to happen. If you will be paralyzed by anxiety, waiting by your email for every little morsel of information about the transaction, then sure...buy direct.

Heck, even if you just want to buy direct, have at it---as long as you aren't using my money to do so.

 

[bakerworld]

The difference between a direct buyer and a resale buyer.

Your on high speed and the traffic say 5 or six cars in front hit the breaks causing a slowing of speed and the person driving immediately LOOSES in MAJORLY: "OMG, its happened again - we gonna be stuck - wonder how long it's gonna take us to go thru this..." AAAANNNNDD the traffic resumes speed and your going along until someone 5/6 cars up hits his breaks and: "OMG!! yatta - yatta - yatta....

Your on high speed and the traffic seems slow so you hop off and do the back roads for a bit or you just slow down moving along with traffic.

OK - now guess which one is my husband and guess how we bought DVC.