Conclusion - Need to Book FP+ as soon as possible

[larryz]

*note, I mean this is a dialogue but please don't take this personally, I think we both love WDW, I have nothing against you and I am not out to get you in anyway, I am out to make sure people are getting as unbiased and straightforward information as they can*

Of course you didn't title your thread "WE" don't need to book FPs in advance, or "Conclusion: I wont be prebooking FP+" it was "No need to prebook FPs" straight forward. Which really begs the question here, are you trying to help people figure out the system, how best to plan their trips, or are you trying to win a point about whether FP+ is great or terrible ? Whether Disney can do any wrong or not ? Not trying to make this personal in anyway, but I have yet to see you agree with a single post about the potential negative outcomes of FP+. Lots of people who don't like FP+ glad admit some of the benefits, as I myself have.



YOU have found availability, and for every time YOU have posted availability, others have posted they found NO availability.

So in fact, people have said exactly what we predicted, they waited beyond their 60 days and were unable to get what they wanted.

Also its an exaggeration on your part to say people argued "nothing" would be available, that seems mathematically impossible, you'd have to have enough people prebooking to take the entire capacity of FPs for the day, but the base of the point still is, people waiting beyond the 60 day mark have been shut out from what they wanted.

Your "Debunking" Debunked !




And indeed lots of reports of just that, people only finding scraps when booking at 30 days. LOTS of posts about it.

Your "Debunking" Debunked !



Glad you have been able to get things done at RD, that still seems to be the best way to go. Yet, we are also getting reports of SB times escalating much faster first thing in the morning. Showing up to some of the headliners with immediately posted wait times of 30 and 45 mins. Reports from people getting in line at RD when the SB wait time has said 10 mins and waiting 20 and 30 mins.

Your "Debunking" Debunked !




You don't start with a clean slate. Period. People have been booking for 60 days. You MAY be able to get what you want, but ironically even some the undoubtedly slanted photos you have posted indicate that the times available for rides are not those of a clean slate.
Your "Debunking" Debunked !


I know its really hard for you to acknowledge the dozens of posts of other people whose experience doesn't match yours, and no one is denying what you have experienced. But again, just because you experienced it doesn't mean others do. We have again, I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, dozens, of posts of people even some in this thread, about doing last minute trips and finding nothing but scraps.

Your "Debunking" Debunked !



Read basically every response here again, really. No one has said you "can't" get FP+ without a computer, they have said you are at the mercy of the kiosk and whats available after others have been booking for 60 days ... and that's entirely true. Again, lots of posts about people not being able to get stuff.

Your "Debunking" Debunked !


I'm just going to post the same thing again, since you basically did.

Read basically every response here again, really. No one has said you "can't" get FP+ without a computer, they have said you are at the mercy of the kiosk and whats available after others have been booking for 60 days ... and that's entirely true. Again, lots of posts about people not being able to get stuff.

Your "Debunking" Debunked !



Funny because one of the pieces of advice posted repeatedly here on the boards for people unable to get what they want is just to book it for one person at a time, and try to overlap the times ... I think I have even see you support this advice ...

Your "Debunking" Debunked !





Ah and then we get to the crux of it, your mileage my vary, in fact we know it WILL vary. Except you don't tell people this, or at least other than in this post you don't. Instead we see "look no lines at the kiosk", when someone says you should book asap you say "Nah, we got what we wanted last minute" and time someone posts something negative about their experience, you try to come up with a counter example, even though you know that the capacity just isn't ther efor everyone to have you experience. Its mathematically impossible. Yet rather than recognize this, people choose to continue to prop up the idea that everything will be super smooth with FP+ and no one will be shut out of the FPs they want and everyone can get all the FPs they want.

Of course, you aren't the only one guilty of a offering a purely one sided account, of things, and all experiences are valid. Its good to know its -possible- to get things last minute, its also good to know you might get shut out at day 59 and 23 hours. But a rebuttal to rebuttal to rebuttal to rebuttal to rebuttal just doesn't seem productive in the grand scheme of things. I get the passion for WDW, lord knows I have it, but seriously can we be a little more objective in posts ?

The glowing experiences of last minute FP+ availability, and day of availability, have been "Debunked" as something people can rely on to plan their trips around countless times on these boards.

But that doesn't mean they aren't possible to experience, they just shouldn't be things we are telling people to plan their trip around and their likely hood is inversely related to the crowd levels and the utilization of FP+.

More debunking on this thread than in the whole Wilderness Lodge on a MK early hours morning!

 

[lauradis]

That's what was always said about FP- and using them after the printed return time.

The diffence I see between fp- and fp+ if if i wasnt going to use them I could hand them to someone and tell them how to use them. Its not possible to do that with fp+

I guess I could let fp+ expire and let the stand-by lines be less time. woopie doo.

 

[larryz]

There is a Hugh difference between me and you and people that don't go often...

Cousin Hugh has always been a little different...

 

[jade1]

Its so hilarious how, again, you are clinging to try and describe your day as a "clean Slate" the same way you desperately attempted to establish it was more "spontaneous" somehow after booking appointments.

I am glad you have established that you can choose to change the definitions of words to suit your purposes.

But your days at Disney world for having access to attractions are not clean slates when others have already prebooked.

And a day is by definition less spontaneous every time you schedule something like FPs.

Again, it goes back to the fact you are unwilling to have any word with a negative connotation attached to FP+, you are just that much of a partisan if you will.

Its ok to say, no the days are not clean slates but we still like FP+ more .... that's perfectly acceptable.
Just like its ok to say you enjoy having things booked, thus a less spontaneous day because you like to know you have those attractions on lock. Perfectly acceptable.

Not sure if you mean me, but if you do:

FP+ does leave us with more spontaneity-way more, and we can choose to start with a clean slate every day we want. What others do is up to them. It's OK to disagree.

 

[Luckybee]

Not sure if you mean me, but if you do:

FP+ does leave us with more spontaneity-way more, and we can choose to start with a clean slate every day we want. What others do is up to them. It's OK to disagree.

You're obviously misunderstanding what "clean slate" means in the context that posters who have lost that are referencing. I have to say misunderstanding because otherwise I'd have to believe that you're intentionally being obtuse, and Im sure that isn't the case. Clean slate means that EVERYONE starts the day with nothing booked. No one has a head start on anyone else if they all get there in the early morn so that EVERYONE has equal opportunity for EVERYTHING.
Like the system for whatever reason but you cannot argue logically that you can start with a clean slate even if only a few people have booked advance fp+'s for the park you're going to. Under the previous system the clock was reset each day. It isn't any longer. This isn't a biggie for us since we are not rope droppers but it is for many others.

 

[larryz]

You're obviously misunderstanding what "clean slate" means ...

Now, I don't know about all that. But I DO know that if you don't leave a clean slate at 50's Prime Time Diner, you won't get a sweet treat!

 

[itchin2go]

You're obviously misunderstanding what "clean slate" means in the context that posters who have lost that are referencing. I have to say misunderstanding because otherwise I'd have to believe that you're intentionally being obtuse, and Im sure that isn't the case. Clean slate means that EVERYONE starts the day with nothing booked. No one has a head start on anyone else if they all get there in the early morn so that EVERYONE has equal opportunity for EVERYTHING.
Like the system for whatever reason but you cannot argue logically that you can start with a clean slate even if only a few people have booked advance fp+'s for the park you're going to. Under the previous system the clock was reset each day. It isn't any longer. This isn't a biggie for us since we are not rope droppers but it is for many others.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole concept of "clean slate" came up in the context of old FP vs. new FP. With old FP, everyone started each day with a clean slate or a "level playing field". Maybe you didn't even know about FP- on Monday, but if you found out about it, then on Tuesday, you could show up, with a clean slate, a level playing field and pull your FP- with the masses. The guy who knew about FP a year ago didn't have a leg up on you. You had the same chance, each day, to pull similar fastpasses. First come, first served, resetting each day, with no one having an advantage over another, except who got there earliest and who moved their legs the fastest.

With new FP, if you find out about it on Tuesday of your trip, there's no "clean slate". FPs have been being booked for 70 days or more prior, so that ship has sailed. I *think* the argument was, that it was THAT much more important that people book ahead ... because there is no "reset" each day.

 

[jade1]

You're obviously misunderstanding what "clean slate" means in the context that posters who have lost that are referencing. I have to say misunderstanding because otherwise I'd have to believe that you're intentionally being obtuse, and Im sure that isn't the case. Clean slate means that EVERYONE starts the day with nothing booked. No one has a head start on anyone else if they all get there in the early morn so that EVERYONE has equal opportunity for EVERYTHING.
Like the system for whatever reason but you cannot argue logically that you can start with a clean slate even if only a few people have booked advance fp+'s for the park you're going to. Under the previous system the clock was reset each day. It isn't any longer. This isn't a biggie for us since we are not rope droppers but it is for many others.

Is this defined somewhere? In my opinion-clean slate means "we" are not tied to any particular park or plan, everyone else is irrelevant, and the slate can contain non headliner or even non park activities. Such as Disney Fishing, Disney Golf, Disney Dining, DTD, and yes other area activities.

Easter/MK week in the past, all major FP were gone by noon-we knew that. So every day we would want to be into a park by at least late morning to hopefully get at least one FP.

1) Obviously even "one" guest ahead of us at the machine meant we didn't have a clean slate then, much less 90% of them (your definition).

2) Every day we would have that "on the slate" to start each day. Yes we wanted to sleep, or golf, or fish, or hit UNI or Clearwater-but we would either have to not do those or some of those activities (which wanted to do), or rush through them in order obtain even one FP, and usually failed-because like you say all the guests have gone through ahead of us. And certainly never got a choice of best attractions or return times.

So we have options:

1) Reserve evening FP+'s ahead of time-and have a clean slate each morning and afternoon to do what we want at those times. Because the morning ritual of turning the hour glass over until the good FP's are gone is NO LONGER ON THE DAILY SLATE.

2) Not reserving any and having a clean slate, yes 90% (or whatever) will have been selected, but "day of" selection guests will be a very small percentage, so very few of us were selecting from the pool left.

Here is another example:

We did UNI a morning Easter week, but we wanted to see the MK Parade (it is very good) so we arrived at noon for that (there were 2 but we were already back), then the plan was to hit the pool as usual (still winter here) for the afternoon, then go back to MK for the evening.

Just after noon we were able to still get BTMRR/Pan/Space for that evening and in a 2 hour window return-EASTER week.

 

[jade1]

With new FP, if you find out about it on Tuesday of your trip, there's no "clean slate". FPs have been being booked for 70 days or more prior, so that ship has sailed.

See this is exactly why we did what we did. Statements like this. The absolute whole point of the exercise.

Ironic you picked Tues-look at our wednesday results, Easter week.

Plus they could use the app starting Tues eve and fill the whole week in-no need to wait like we did-back to the asap reserving.

 

[Planogirl]

I must be missing the point here. It appears that the conclusion is that someone can get a lot done if you arrive at rope drop. That hasn't changed. Isn't the concern for later in the day? With Legacy you could get a lot done at rope and then get FP's for "most" headliners. Can you do the same with FP+? You can certainly get a lot done early but don't you still have to book FP+ for headliners if you want to ride them later in the day?

I'm speaking of busy days of course. Not:

 

[jade1]

I must be missing the point here. It appears that the conclusion is that someone can get a lot done if you arrive at rope drop. That hasn't changed.

Correct-many claimed FP+ would make even RD long waits, and only EMH AM would still be good, still sound advice though to use EMH if your the early type IMO.

Isn't the concern for later in the day? With Legacy you could get a lot done at rope and then get FP's for "most" headliners. Can you do the same with FP+? You can certainly get a lot done early but don't you still have to book FP+ for headliners if you want to ride them later in the day?

I'm speaking of busy days of course. Not:

Are you speaking of busy days? Or not? If busy days-we booked FP+ evenings day before and some in park-have examples.

"Just after noon we were able to still get BTMRR/Pan/Space for that evening and in a 2 hour window return-EASTER week."

If not-probably won't matter either way.

 

[Planogirl]

Jade, I'll just say that I don't agree. We just went too and while I don't have pictures I can verify that the headliners were gone in the afternoon. I can agree that early morning and late evening work well though.

 

[itchin2go]

Is this defined somewhere? In my opinion-clean slate means "we" are not tied to any particular park or plan, everyone else is irrelevant, and the slate can contain non headliner or even non park activities. Such as Disney Fishing, Disney Golf, Disney Dining, DTD, and yes other area activities.

Easter/MK week in the past, all major FP were gone by noon-we knew that. So every day we would want to be into a park by at least late morning to hopefully get at least one FP.

1) Obviously even "one" guest ahead of us at the machine meant we didn't have a clean slate then, much less 90% of them (your definition).

2) Every day we would have that "on the slate" to start each day. Yes we wanted to sleep, or golf, or fish, or hit UNI or Clearwater-but we would either have to not do those or some of those activities (which wanted to do), or rush through them in order obtain even one FP, and usually failed-because like you say all the guests have gone through ahead of us. And certainly never got a choice of best attractions or return times.

So we have options:

1) Reserve evening FP+'s ahead of time-and have a clean slate each morning and afternoon to do what we want at those times. Because the morning ritual of turning the hour glass over until the good FP's are gone is NO LONGER ON THE DAILY SLATE.

2) Not reserving any and having a clean slate, yes 90% (or whatever) will have been selected, but "day of" selection guests will be a very small percentage, so very few of us were selecting from the pool left.

Here is another example:

We did UNI a morning Easter week, but we wanted to see the MK Parade (it is very good) so we arrived at noon for that (there were 2 but we were already back), then the plan was to hit the pool as usual (still winter here) for the afternoon, then go back to MK for the evening.

Just after noon we were able to still get BTMRR/Pan/Space for that evening and in a 2 hour window return-EASTER week.

Oh, brother. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.

"Clean slate" in the context of this thread (and the other one) had to do with the fact that FP- reset each day, leaving everyone with a clean slate to start anew each day, a level playing field as compared against other WDW guests.

It did not mean a chalkboard that had been wiped clean.

It did not mean someone who did their jail time, had their record expunged and then began with a "clean slate".

It did not mean that someone started a new school, with new kids and no reputation, and thus had a "clean slate".

And it did not refer to the fact that you can choose what activities you want to do each day, whether that be puzzles or swimming or activities at WDW.

You can begin using the phrase mid-thread to mean one of those meanings or another of your choosing, but that's not what PP were referring to when they referred to the "clean slate" with FP-. And using that phrase to mean something different mid-thread is confusing, at best.

 

[jade1]

Jade, I'll just say that I don't agree. We just went too and while I don't have pictures I can verify that the headliners were gone in the afternoon. I can agree that early morning and late evening work well though.

Ah-my bad, I thought you meant return times for the evening. No I would say if you have not reserved FP and plan to in the park, do so asap, same advice as always. Yes we did noon and got great ones Easter week, but the afternoons/evenings were not when we tried, except the first week of March and then a lot was available even into the evenings.

 

[jade1]

Oh, brother. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.

"Clean slate" in the context of this thread (and the other one) had to do with the fact that FP- reset each day, leaving everyone with a clean slate to start anew each day, a level playing field as compared against other WDW guests.

It did not mean a chalkboard that had been wiped clean.

It did not mean someone who did their jail time, had their record expunged and then began with a "clean slate".

It did not mean that someone started a new school, with new kids and no reputation, and thus had a "clean slate".

And it did not refer to the fact that you can choose what activities you want to do each day, whether that be puzzles or swimming or activities at WDW.

You can begin using the phrase mid-thread to mean one of those meanings or another of your choosing, but that's not what PP were referring to when they referred to the "clean slate" with FP-. And using that phrase to mean something different mid-thread is confusing, at best.

Well that's what it meant to me sorry.

If you are simply saying:

Folks don't like that they can no longer have access to the entire FP pool first thing each day, then yes of course I agree. Why that's (clean slate) is defined as starting your day in WDW I'm not sure, maybe more like "Completely reset FP pool" but I'm OK with the term.

Certainly you have heard complaints over the years of not wanting to reserve FP+ ahead of time and being locked down to those parks, or weather can change things, or not having any idea what park they will want to be at 60 days out etc, or what if I want TSM and we were sick that day, or yes even FP+ can increase spontaneity on your WDW vacation.

Those are the points I was talking about so sorry you simply meant FP-


Anyway-talking about beating your head against a wall, do you have a response to this?

After all that was talked about,and we went down and tested this exact scenario during a peak week, and XMAS EVE for XMAS DAY?

I'm not saying you don't have a point on the matter, I'm saying some of us are testing the system for scenarios that could arise. Certainly not my fault we had very good success.

With new FP, if you find out about it on Tuesday of your trip, there's no "clean slate". FPs have been being booked for 70 days or more prior, so that ship has sailed. I *think* the argument was, that it was THAT much more important that people book ahead ... because there is no "reset" each day.

See this is exactly why we did what we did. Statements like this. The absolute whole point of the exercise.

Ironic you picked Tues-look at our wednesday results, Easter week.

Plus they could use the app starting Tues eve and fill the whole week in-no need to wait like we did-back to the asap reserving.

 

[lauradis]

Oh, brother. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.

"Clean slate" in the context of this thread (and the other one) had to do with the fact that FP- reset each day, leaving everyone with a clean slate to start anew each day, a level playing field as compared against other WDW guests.

It did not mean a chalkboard that had been wiped clean.

It did not mean someone who did their jail time, had their record expunged and then began with a "clean slate".

It did not mean that someone started a new school, with new kids and no reputation, and thus had a "clean slate".

And it did not refer to the fact that you can choose what activities you want to do each day, whether that be puzzles or swimming or activities at WDW.

You can begin using the phrase mid-thread to mean one of those meanings or another of your choosing, but that's not what PP were referring to when they referred to the "clean slate" with FP-. And using that phrase to mean something different mid-thread is confusing, at best.

oh your poor head.

My poor husband hated clean slate of fp-.

He isn't your Disney ride ever ride kind of person, he loves fp+, he loves express passes at universal better, he loved the volunteer year and pick fp passes with out tickets.

He is in the 90% ish of people that would go to Disney with no plan, but airplane tickets and hotel.

Basically he doesn't care, he would rather wake up and pick what/ where he wants that day and then change it mid stream.

fp+ seems to fit the avg Disney goer. Not the disboard uber planner.

 

[Mad Hattered]

 

[jade1]

Nice.

Glad to have reported success on our trips on some of these odd examples. Good luck on everyone's future trips.

 

[Mad Hattered]

It was meant as an example of the entire thread. I never said who Sonny Liston was.

 

[itchin2go]

Anyway-talking about beating your head against a wall, do you have a response to this?

After all that was talked about,and we went down and tested this exact scenario during a peak week, and XMAS EVE for XMAS DAY?

I'm not sure what the question is.

I don't think you're lying and I am glad you had good success. It is certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

I don't think that means the average person can book any FP they want "day of". I don't think it means they can book any headliner they want "day of". I think there's *some* availability, and people are constantly moving things around, and there's always the luck of the draw.

Really, I don't doubt you had a great trip/trips and that you're happy about that.