Completely Immersive Star Wars Experience

[jknezek]

Really? Cause that's being flown by a Wookiee with two plastic hips and someone who's 97 lbs dripping wet now...

...what...do you suppose...in the iger/Kennedy/Abrams world...will they focus the story on?

The ship itself is an original trilogy character. Star Tours originally featured that stupid droid pilot, now it is Threepio. You want an original trilogy dogma go see the Tatooine huts they rebuilt from the original set in Africa or buy yourself a Preston Bond Bug and pretend it's a landspeeder.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ah gotcha. I'm fine with trackless, and I also think not everything's gotta be a thrill ride. I'll judge on a case by case basis.

I agree...but what if NONE are?

Again...they took the greatest movie franchise of the 20th century (arguably...there are very few competitors) and made a minivan with a movie screen out of it. These new rides are gonna be closer to doubling down.

Contrary to what lucas says...it's not just for 7 year olds. These new "lands" should serve both masters. Especially the ones with the wallets and timeshares.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The ship itself is an original trilogy character. Star Tours originally featured that stupid droid pilot, now it is Threepio. You want an original trilogy dogma go see the Tatooine huts they rebuilt from the original set in Africa or buy yourself a Preston Bond Bug and pretend it's a landspeeder.

Woah woah...are you really gonna lecture me on Star Wars here? Don't cross the rubicon on this.

I like your ideas, but I'm older than you and I'm barely on the lower age limit of original Star Wars fans...you're just a tad too young...you missed them in the theaters by my count. You're more ninja turtles vintage.

Easy there, Tonto...let's keep the positivite energy going.

Just like disneyparks...I've read all the backstory, ethos, psychological effects theories, and financial and consumer product data for Star Wars for decades (I'm just a geek that way...not about pin lanyards, mouse ears, and exclusive viewing for "wishes"). I don't think telling me where to "go" when defending another screen simulator (which I do believe universal has been getting bashed for this very day around here) is gonna work out well.

 

[jknezek]

Woah woah...are you really gonna lecture me on Star Wars here? Don't cross the rubicon on this.

I like your ideas, but I'm older than you and I'm barely on the lower age limit of original Star Wars fans...you're just a tad too young...you missed them in the theaters by my count. You're more ninja turtles vintage.

Easy there, Tonto...let's keep the positivite energy going.

Just like disneyparks...I've read all the backstory, ethos, psychological effects theories, and financial and consumer product data for Star Wars for decades (I'm just a geek that way...not about pin lanyards, mouse ears, and exclusive viewing for "wishes"). I don't think telling me where to "go" when defending another screen simulator (which I do believe universal has been getting bashed for this very day around here) is gonna work out well.

I saw Return of the Jedi in theaters, missed the 2 better ones first theatrical release. Age does not denote mastery of the universe, I was actually the right age to play with the original toys. You were probably pretty scary when you were running around with your Luke dolly....

I'm not going to geek fight here, but the original comment wasn't about the type of Falcon ride, it was you denying there was original trilogy flavor to the new land. I pointed out you were wrong. The Falcon ride, even as a simulator, is still an original trilogy character. Regardless of who is flying it, or what shape the ride takes. That is your link to the original trilogy. It exists. It may not satisfy you, but there is no denying that it is there

 

[Planogirl]

It's hard to believe that they will close Star Tours in a park with so little to do. Simulator or not, it's a good ride and absorbs people. Plus it could be another attraction in Star Wars land.

 

[umichigan10]

It's hard to believe that they will close Star Tours in a park with so little to do. Simulator or not, it's a good ride and absorbs people. Plus it could be another attraction in Star Wars land.

I'd think it would happen after the land opens. I see no reason they could transplant it to the new land but I don't think they will

 

[umichigan10]

I saw Return of the Jedi in theaters, missed the 2 better ones first theatrical release. Age does not denote mastery of the universe, I was actually the right age to play with the original toys. You were probably pretty scary when you were running around with your Luke dolly....

I'm not going to geek fight here, but the original comment wasn't about the type of Falcon ride, it was you denying there was original trilogy flavor to the new land. I pointed out you were wrong. The Falcon ride, even as a simulator, is still an original trilogy character. Regardless of who is flying it, or what shape the ride takes. That is your link to the original trilogy. It exists. It may not satisfy you, but there is no denying that it is there

I mean you're both right. Flying the falcon irregardless of era is still a cool thing. While I wish it was done in the original trilogy it's still a pretty sweet deal

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I saw Return of the Jedi in theaters, missed the 2 better ones first theatrical release. Age does not denote mastery of the universe, I was actually the right age to play with the original toys. You were probably pretty scary when you were running around with your Luke dolly....

I'm not going to geek fight here, but the original comment wasn't about the type of Falcon ride, it was you denying there was original trilogy flavor to the new land. I pointed out you were wrong. The Falcon ride, even as a simulator, is still an original trilogy character. Regardless of who is flying it, or what shape the ride takes. That is your link to the original trilogy. It exists. It may not satisfy you, but there is no denying that it is there

Well the devil is in the details isn't it?

Nothing yet exists...maybe...just maybe...you might get some deets this week.

And by my admittedly quick math...you were 4-5 at the oldest when Jedi came out? So most memory doesn't really hold from that age...and Kenner pulled the Star Wars toys in 1985 (out of sight, out of mind)...so you were a young pup.

Let's see if they are doing this for the right reasons...and by that I don't mean igers legacy of sales receipts and message of world peace and unity.

 

[jknezek]

Well the devil is in the details isn't it?

Nothing yet exists...maybe...just maybe...you might get some deets this week.

And by my admittedly quick math...you were 4-5 at the oldest when Jedi came out? So most memory doesn't really hold from that age...and Kenner pulled the Star Wars toys in 1985 (out of sight, out of mind)...so you were a young pup.

Let's see if they are doing this for the right reasons...and by that I don't mean igers legacy of sales receipts and message of world peace and unity.

I was 5 though it was probably the tail end of the theatrical run. I have memories of it, but admittedly my memories of Star Wars follow on from VHS and a cassette of Episode IV I listened to on an endless loop during a camping trip from NJ to WDW through the Smokies and home. I remember my dad taping the worn ribbon back together several times on that trip when I was 6. I actually still have the vast majority of my Star Wars toys. My kids play with them now. Dozens of action figures, a scale Millennium Falcon, X-Wing and AT-AT for the action figures among other pieces. Many lost, especially accessories, but many still being played with. I've read countless pieces of the now non-canon universe, played the games, saw the re-releases. Was appropriately irritated and turned off by the prequels and the "adjustments" to the originals Lucas made for the re-release. Why not leave Han shooting first? It set his freaking character. Frankly, just seeing the originals during the original theatrical run just provides an age, not a love for the series.

As for the right reasons, WDW is a business. It's not the best run one I've ever come across, though it is far from the worst. I think SWE will be acceptable, but compared to what they could have done? It will fall short. Part of that is because what they could have done is pretty much infinite, and what they are choosing to do, 2 rides and some really good scenery, is simply adequate.

Regardless, my point in this whole conversation was simply to point out that the Millenium Falcon provides the link to the original trilogy. Going whole new planet/whole new story was the easy way out but I can't blame them. If they really did focus on the original trilogy the hardcore fans would have found some way to beat on it. Though I will say their incorporation of the original Trilogy into Rebels has been very good. Now, however, they can take SWE any direction they want. I just hope whatever direction they pick, they do well.

 

[umichigan10]

I was 5 though it was probably the tail end of the theatrical run. I have memories of it, but admittedly my memories of Star Wars follow on from VHS and a cassette of Episode IV I listened to on an endless loop during a camping trip from NJ to WDW through the Smokies and home. I remember my dad taping the worn ribbon back together several times on that trip when I was 6. I actually still have the vast majority of my Star Wars toys. My kids play with them now. Dozens of action figures, a scale Millennium Falcon, X-Wing and AT-AT for the action figures among other pieces. Many lost, especially accessories, but many still being played with. I've read countless pieces of the now non-canon universe, played the games, saw the re-releases. Was appropriately irritated and turned off by the prequels and the "adjustments" to the originals Lucas made for the re-release. Why not leave Han shooting first? It set his freaking character. Frankly, just seeing the originals during the original theatrical run just provides an age, not a love for the series.

As for the right reasons, WDW is a business. It's not the best run one I've ever come across, though it is far from the worst. I think SWE will be acceptable, but compared to what they could have done? It will fall short. Part of that is because what they could have done is pretty much infinite, and what they are choosing to do, 2 rides and some really good scenery, is simply adequate.

Regardless, my point in this whole conversation was simply to point out that the Millenium Falcon provides the link to the original trilogy. Going whole new planet/whole new story was the easy way out but I can't blame them. If they really did focus on the original trilogy the hardcore fans would have found some way to beat on it. Though I will say their incorporation of the original Trilogy into Rebels has been very good. Now, however, they can take SWE any direction they want. I just hope whatever direction they pick, they do well.

Nothing to add really, but just wanted to say well reasoned and articulated, I agree 100%. I grew up during the wretched prequel era (although I didn't notice the awful plot as a kid) and am hoping they are able to really fresh the new trilogy out into its own and not rely on the plot from the originals to guide it. Loved rogue one, but haven't seen rebels but heard good things about it

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I was 5 though it was probably the tail end of the theatrical run. I have memories of it, but admittedly my memories of Star Wars follow on from VHS and a cassette of Episode IV I listened to on an endless loop during a camping trip from NJ to WDW through the Smokies and home. I remember my dad taping the worn ribbon back together several times on that trip when I was 6. I actually still have the vast majority of my Star Wars toys. My kids play with them now. Dozens of action figures, a scale Millennium Falcon, X-Wing and AT-AT for the action figures among other pieces. Many lost, especially accessories, but many still being played with. I've read countless pieces of the now non-canon universe, played the games, saw the re-releases. Was appropriately irritated and turned off by the prequels and the "adjustments" to the originals Lucas made for the re-release. Why not leave Han shooting first? It set his freaking character. Frankly, just seeing the originals during the original theatrical run just provides an age, not a love for the series.

As for the right reasons, WDW is a business. It's not the best run one I've ever come across, though it is far from the worst. I think SWE will be acceptable, but compared to what they could have done? It will fall short. Part of that is because what they could have done is pretty much infinite, and what they are choosing to do, 2 rides and some really good scenery, is simply adequate.

Regardless, my point in this whole conversation was simply to point out that the Millenium Falcon provides the link to the original trilogy. Going whole new planet/whole new story was the easy way out but I can't blame them. If they really did focus on the original trilogy the hardcore fans would have found some way to beat on it. Though I will say their incorporation of the original Trilogy into Rebels has been very good. Now, however, they can take SWE any direction they want. I just hope whatever direction they pick, they do well.

I'm having a hard time trusting that these new things won't be an add for the movies they're doing now...and the jury is still out there.

And they treated rogue one like the step brother and cancelled rebels...so there Is cause for concern.

And the plans appear to be "tame"...we will just have to wait and see.

 

[umichigan10]

I'm having a hard time trusting that these new things won't be an add for the movies they're doing now...and the jury is still out there.

And they treated rogue one like the step brother and cancelled rebels...so there Is cause for concern.

And the plans appear to be "tame"...we will just have to wait and see.

I know I'm stating the obvious here but rogue one blew force awakens out of the water. I've never been looking forward to a movie being added to Netflix like I am with rogue

 

[jknezek]

I'm having a hard time trusting that these new things won't be an add for the movies they're doing now...and the jury is still out there.

And they treated rogue one like the step brother and cancelled rebels...so there Is cause for concern.

And the plans appear to be "tame"...we will just have to wait and see.

Rebels is getting 4 seasons. That is plenty for the storyline following a small crew. I do think the indicator is whether they will have a follow on idea in the year or two after it ends. Clone Wars was good, but it dragged at the end. I'll be pleased Rebels won't follow that path, but only if they then come up with something new to add to the sandbox.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Rebels is getting 4 seasons. That is plenty for the storyline following a small crew. I do think the indicator is whether they will have a follow on idea in the year or two after it ends. Clone Wars was good, but it dragged at the end. I'll be pleased Rebels won't follow that path, but only if they then come up with something new to add to the sandbox.

I'm wondering what the plan is after rebels...I think they need to figure out the niche for Star Wars other than features...like a Netflix Collaboration or something not years apart.

I'm sure the disney channel problems made rebels "expendable" because of its low ratings and high cost

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I know I'm stating the obvious here but rogue one blew force awakens out of the water. I've never been looking forward to a movie being added to Netflix like I am with rogue

It did...and what was the focus on?

Old Star Wars fans...not "new synergy with new generations" or the platform of the DNC...
...gotta go with what works.

 

[jknezek]

I'm wondering what the plan is after rebels...I think they need to figure out the niche for Star Wars other than features...like a Netflix Collaboration or something not years apart.

I'm sure the disney channel problems made rebels "expendable" because of its low ratings and high cost

I'd like to see something more mature. I do like what they have done with Marvel (at least until Iron fist...uggh) and Netflix but Marvel has that universe of available characters. Since Star Wars went non-canon with most of their non core characters, those stories need to be original. There isn't source material to make easy shows from. That is harder than cherry picking story lines from years of comic books.

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

Just to clarify my stance on this:

1. The management has always viewed hotels as a burden or necessary evil (large overhead costs)
2. I think it inevitable that at least some of the hotels will be outsourced.
3. I don't think that move is imminent at this point.

What??? Wow. I'm really surprised at #1. Especially with all the resort expansion in the last few decades. Of course I know nothing about the resort costs and profits (I'd be in heaven if I could see that data), but I do know that the resorts really make WDW what it is for me. I think outsourcing would be a big mistake. If management does see the resorts as a necessary evil, then I hope the operative word there is "necessary."

 

[wareagle57]

What??? Wow. I'm really surprised at #1. Especially with all the resort expansion in the last few decades. Of course I know nothing about the resort costs and profits (I'd be in heaven if I could see that data), but I do know that the resorts really make WDW what it is for me. I think outsourcing would be a big mistake. If management does see the resorts as a necessary evil, then I hope the operative word there is "necessary."

I too have never understood this argument/logic but I would love to have it explained to me.

Hotels obviously make money. Even crappy hotels that charge 40-60 dollars a night and are rarely anywhere close to full make money. So how could it be that Disney hotels that are almost always above 75% capacity year round, and charging anywhere from 100-500 a night for standard rooms are not making a ridiculous profit. They are at least making more money than the half full LaQuinta in Lake City. Is there are point when a company is so big and so profitable, that they decide, even though X is making a us a profit, it's just not worth all the time and resources we put into it? I would think that profit would need to be razor thin.

 

[adelaster]

@lockedoutlogic Am I mistaken in perceiving that you think the true star wars fans are of a certain age? If so, what is that age?

It would surprise me if there was a large audience of people over the age of 55 getting excited about cosplaying, cons, and spending as much money as this would cost for a fandom.

If the current concept plans express as "tame" to you - can you elaborate the kind of park you would like to see, and the target audience? I'd be really interested in your ideal design.

Mayhap you disagree, but it seems wise to avoid copying the original concepts and better to strike out new for the park design. Incorporate familiar elements/homage but create a new world for people to connect with. These new films are an opportunity for an older generation to introduce their love of Star Wars to a younger generation. My husband (among others) made a very convincing argument that the plot of Force Awakens essentially mirrors the plot tropes and themes of the original series- and Abrams acknowledged that goal of recapturing the essence of it without simply remaking it ad naseum, and then seeing fans vent ad naseum.

: I am really irritated with the cultural fad of simply remaking things over and over and marketing every franchise to death. Even the word "super hero" makes me wince now.

If Disney is wise and lucky, they will create a new world with which to entice the older audience and create a new one. Not an easy feat.

As far as rides- I really don't want high level thrill rides to take over the parks. I like that a lot of Disney is "accessible" to a wide audience. If you want coasters, there's loads of theme parks across the country providing them. Not a huge fan of all simulations either, but I thought Star Tours was fun (we rode in DL this year).

I may be wrong, but it strikes me that what Disney has (or had, in some minds) going for it is innovation, creativity, and atmosphere. Those are the things I would market. Rides get old, there's always a newer/better/faster/higher tech experience. Capture the minds, hearts, passions, and interests - then you've captured nostalgia, which means a life-long customer, as so many on these boards are. They keep buying intellectual property to that end- they're trying to monopolize nostalgia, to own entertainment in a way no one else does. I think the next ten years will really shine a clear light on the future of it all. As emphasized, I have hope (however slight) that they could really start to move in an interesting and new direction. Or, they could keep trying to turn a profit in the cheapest way and lowest commitment possible and fail miserably. The possibilities are endless- I just would like to see it continue to strive to be different and keep the "magic" alive. I'm not going to like everything, but my loss might be another person's gain. The Muppets for example- haven't liked much since Jim passed. But plenty of new fans and older fans were thrilled with the revamping and subsequent films/television show. A brand like Disney has to appeal to the widest audience in the most manipulative way possible to survive. The face of entertainment will continue to change as tech advances- but that is a topic for another board.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I too have never understood this argument/logic but I would love to have it explained to me.

Hotels obviously make money. Even crappy hotels that charge 40-60 dollars a night and are rarely anywhere close to full make money. So how could it be that Disney hotels that are almost always above 75% capacity year round, and charging anywhere from 100-500 a night for standard rooms are not making a ridiculous profit. They are at least making more money than the half full LaQuinta in Lake City. Is there are point when a company is so big and so profitable, that they decide, even though X is making a us a profit, it's just not worth all the time and resources we put into it? I would think that profit would need to be razor thin.

Well...part of it is accounting shell game. The traditional model is that hotels...other than gift shop take (the holy grail) and some concessions make nothing...because the operations charges are allocated to covering a billion forms of overhead and it's revenue neutral.

1,000 buses don't pay for themselves...nor do 1000 horticulture people and landscapers out 365/24...

So you have to have really seen it (this is where I demure) to understand it.

Now...they've jacked them up...so it may be more of a profiting enterprise...but not the way it's often assumed. That's short term bob...it doesn't matter what happens next to him.

Here's what it really is:

Disney hotels operate at a high employees to guest ratios (except...I'll get to that...). And that means a large part of the static labor commitment is to the hotels. And they HATE that. It's longterm cost you can't deny...and while efforts have been made to eliminate that (...as promised...timeshares)...it's still a thorn in their side and always will be.

So disney - officially - claims there's no money in hotels...and it has a guaranteed price tag...that's why they don't like being a hotel operator.

Don't believe me...believe history...

The original hotels were to be constructed and run by a third party (US steel in conjunction with a TBD operator)...they took over the construction and management when they fell behind.

Before Eisner decided to go full bore on expansion and making the place a 5 week destination...he begrudgingly went the outsource hotel route as well...between two parks...take a guess there?

Didn't like the results...so reversed.

Dvc in many ways is about reducing operations cost, reducing staff while ensuring business...

And now...anytime it falls
Slightly at a rack hotel...
"Nope...not having it...dvc that sucker"

And then you reduce staff yet again...look at how many times that has happened...or do they need to build at all star music before you believe me.

I'm just telling you how it is...twist it, spin it, don't believe it...it changes nothing.