Completely Immersive Star Wars Experience

[lockedoutlogic]

@lockedoutlogic Am I mistaken in perceiving that you think the true star wars fans are of a certain age? If so, what is that age?

It would surprise me if there was a large audience of people over the age of 55 getting excited about cosplaying, cons, and spending as much money as this would cost for a fandom.

If the current concept plans express as "tame" to you - can you elaborate the kind of park you would like to see, and the target audience? I'd be really interested in your ideal design.

Mayhap you disagree, but it seems wise to avoid copying the original concepts and better to strike out new for the park design. Incorporate familiar elements/homage but create a new world for people to connect with. These new films are an opportunity for an older generation to introduce their love of Star Wars to a younger generation. My husband (among others) made a very convincing argument that the plot of Force Awakens essentially mirrors the plot tropes and themes of the original series- and Abrams acknowledged that goal of recapturing the essence of it without simply remaking it ad naseum, and then seeing fans vent ad naseum.

: I am really irritated with the cultural fad of simply remaking things over and over and marketing every franchise to death. Even the word "super hero" makes me wince now.

If Disney is wise and lucky, they will create a new world with which to entice the older audience and create a new one. Not an easy feat.

As far as rides- I really don't want high level thrill rides to take over the parks. I like that a lot of Disney is "accessible" to a wide audience. If you want coasters, there's loads of theme parks across the country providing them. Not a huge fan of all simulations either, but I thought Star Tours was fun (we rode in DL this year).

I may be wrong, but it strikes me that what Disney has (or had, in some minds) going for it is innovation, creativity, and atmosphere. Those are the things I would market. Rides get old, there's always a newer/better/faster/higher tech experience. Capture the minds, hearts, passions, and interests - then you've captured nostalgia, which means a life-long customer, as so many on these boards are. They keep buying intellectual property to that end- they're trying to monopolize nostalgia, to own entertainment in a way no one else does. I think the next ten years will really shine a clear light on the future of it all. As emphasized, I have hope (however slight) that they could really start to move in an interesting and new direction. Or, they could keep trying to turn a profit in the cheapest way and lowest commitment possible and fail miserably. The possibilities are endless- I just would like to see it continue to strive to be different and keep the "magic" alive. I'm not going to like everything, but my loss might be another person's gain. The Muppets for example- haven't liked much since Jim passed. But plenty of new fans and older fans were thrilled with the revamping and subsequent films/television show. A brand like Disney has to appeal to the widest audience in the most manipulative way possible to survive. The face of entertainment will continue to change as tech advances- but that is a topic for another board.

I'm early 40's...and that is still a tad young for some Star Wars stuff...I'm an empire/Jedi kid.

Over 55? Not so much...but the child rearing core age now 40-50 are the geeks that made Star Wars huge (not just the 80's...we drove the reawakening in the 90's until George crapped in our breakfast)...and soon we will be entrenched In place of the boomers to be the "benevolent" grandparents (based on economics we are likely to be the LAST generation of that...which is sad cause we're only the 3rd)

My ideal design would be one good old fashioned gravity device of some sort, decked out and combined with disney pockets and detail. The "space battle" coaster design of some sort is just too obvious. Then you can do the kiddie stuff (a junior set themed around a lot of choices but droids being the obvious), and the "middle ground" with at least one flat/dark/sim ride that appeals to both.
How I'd lay it out? Simple: the darkness and the light...you can use all the bad guy stuff available in a futuristic setting...and have a salt of the planet type "light side" that allows the theme to explore the mysticism and family relationships at the core.

So then the choice doesn't have to be made between "classic", "bleakwuels", "girl power trilogy" and a Brand new "fictitious space hole"...
And you can go sterile/dark side to the left...jedi world to the right...and a spaceport type place in the center to house all the food and fluff and transition between the two.

I think you need four rides minimum and dynamite for star tours...which means they're still down two right now.

Remakes are easy money...and the Chinese/Asian markets are to blame because they gobble them up. Ironically what that doesn't hold for is disney and Star Wars - in particular.

Disney has become way too timid in mechanical design...they are in NO way going towards thrills...they are actively avoiding them with flat rides and sims. Nothing beats gravity and wdi used to understand that/do a better job of balancing.

Disney theming is great...but others theme now too...you can't fall behind on one front when you're being gained upon in another. It's not gonna look good down the road.

 

[Redo Epcot]

Even with all the hotel rooms at Disney last year they were at a 94% room occupancy rate. That's pretty freaking good and if they added a hotel based on the hottest franchise in the world they would score big both in short and long term.

 

[HopperFan]

It's hard to believe that they will close Star Tours in a park with so little to do. Simulator or not, it's a good ride and absorbs people. Plus it could be another attraction in Star Wars land.

I'd think it would happen after the land opens. I see no reason they could transplant it to the new land but I don't think they will

Why would they keep open or move Star Tours - a flying simulator, when they are building the Millennium Falcon, a flying simulator in the land. They have already installed some AT-ATs in the new land. It doesn't fit where it is, too far from the land, and it would make more sense to bulldoze or retrofit.

I think it's more likely it gets an overlay, wouldn't take much given once you leave queue it's just simulators. GoTG could fit in there if they wanted to squeeze it in OR if they are keeping Indiana Jones for awhile, why not let us join an Indy adventure. I think it's more likely it, Backlot, Indy etc are all going eventually.

I'm early 40's...and that is still a tad young for some Star Wars stuff...I'm an empire/Jedi kid.

Over 55? Not so much...but the child rearing core age now 40-50 are the geeks that made Star Wars huge (not just the 80's...we drove to reawakening in the 90's until George crapped in our breakfast)...and soon we will be entrenched In place of the boomers to be the "benevolent" grandparents (based on economics we are likely to be the LAST generation of that...which is sad cause we're only the 3rd)

My ideal design would be one good old fashioned gravity device of some sort, decked out and combined with disney pockets and detail. The "space battle" coaster design of some sort is just too obvious. Then you can do the kiddie stuff (a junior set themed around a lot of choices but droids being the obvious), and the "middle ground" with at least one flat/dark/sim ride that appeals to both.
How I'd lay it out? Simple: the darkness and the light...you can use all the bad guy stuff available in a futuristic setting...and have a salt of the planet type "light side" that allows the theme to explore the mysticism and family relationships at the core.

So then the choice doesn't have to be made between "classic", "bleakwuels", "girl power trilogy" and a Brand new "fictitious space hole"...
And you can go sterile/dark side to the left...jedi world to the right...and a spaceport type place in the center to house all the food and fluff and transition between the two.

I think you need four rides minimum and dynamite for star tours...which means they're still down two right now.

Remakes are easy money...and the Chinese/Asian markets are to blame because they gobble them up. Ironically what that doesn't hold for is disney and Star Wars - in particular.

Disney has become way too timid in mechanical design...they are in NO way going towards thrills...they are actively avoiding them with flat rides and sims. Nothing beats gravity and wdi used to understand that/do a better job of balancing.

Disney theming is great...but others theme now too...you can't fall behind on one front when you're being gained upon in another. It's not gonna look good down the road.

Agree. I went to see the first Star Wars Opening Night with my cousin, a HUGE SW fan. He actually drove from college in next state because it wasn't playing there. I don't think many that were there for the start have stayed diehards. I think you are right on when the boom hit.

 

[adelaster]

Over 55? Not so much...but the child rearing core age now 40-50 are the geeks that made Star Wars huge (not just the 80's...we drove the reawakening in the 90's until George crapped in our breakfast)...and soon we will be entrenched In place of the boomers to be the "benevolent" grandparents (based on economics we are likely to be the LAST generation of that...which is sad cause we're only the 3rd)

I can agree with this. I was about 14 when the prequels hit, & meesa thinks they weren't as endearing as the original trilogy. I distinctly remember Hayden Christensen appearing on my cereal box.

My dad (late 50's) is a fan and so is my brother. Not the dress up and collect stuff type, but the read all the paperbacks and watch the movies type. My husband (mid 30's) has a lot of pretty cool original toys, although we did get rid of some and I would say he is not as invested now as maybe he once was, same with my brother (late 20's). So yes, I think the 40's age group would be a good demographic to target. Many have children in their teens or younger, which helps.

Sad about your observation, but likely accurate. My parents may not even get gradkids to spoil and might have a hard time doing so- no doubt they'd go without to make it happen.

I will say that Star Wars is not a niche subculture. Even in middle school they were showing the original films at school special events. There was never a time in my life where it wasn't presented to me- in one format or another. While those in their 40's may be the "sweet spot" demographic, there are likely many other people that got swept up along the way. I can verify that a lot of my friends (late 20's early 30's) were more engaged with the latest release than the prequels launched in our youth. Rey, Finn, and BB8 are such engaging characters- I am hopeful for the next films.

Some of my interests encompass Jim Henson's work (Storytellers, Dark Crystal, etc.) so in comparison Star Wars seemed like a planet, in that most people had at least heard of it and could name it even if they don't know how many moons Tatooine has.

I like your park ideas, and they do seem pretty caught up on the dark side/light side thing, so who knows? I guess I was hoping for more of an integration of the two, or a neutral setting with themed attractions. With as few rides as they put into Pandora and Toy Story I would be a bit surprised of Star Wars gets four- but my hope is it sees at least three engaging attractions.

I think it's more likely it gets an overlay, wouldn't take much given once you leave queue it's just simulators.

Agreed. If the audience for Guardians of the Galaxy holds, that's a likely candidate. Could also see them tying it into another newer film (if they even keep it).

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

Well...part of it is accounting shell game. The traditional model is that hotels...other than gift shop take (the holy grail) and some concessions make nothing...because the operations charges are allocated to covering a billion forms of overhead and it's revenue neutral.

1,000 buses don't pay for themselves...nor do 1000 horticulture people and landscapers out 365/24...

So you have to have really seen it (this is where I demure) to understand it.

Now...they've jacked them up...so it may be more of a profiting enterprise...but not the way it's often assumed. That's short term bob...it doesn't matter what happens next to him.

Here's what it really is:

Disney hotels operate at a high employees to guest ratios (except...I'll get to that...). And that means a large part of the static labor commitment is to the hotels. And they HATE that. It's longterm cost you can't deny...and while efforts have been made to eliminate that (...as promised...timeshares)...it's still a thorn in their side and always will be.

So disney - officially - claims there's no money in hotels...and it has a guaranteed price tag...that's why they don't like being a hotel operator.

Don't believe me...believe history...

The original hotels were to be constructed and run by a third party (US steel in conjunction with a TBD operator)...they took over the construction and management when they fell behind.

Before Eisner decided to go full bore on expansion and making the place a 5 week destination...he begrudgingly went the outsource hotel route as well...between two parks...take a guess there?

Didn't like the results...so reversed.

Dvc in many ways is about reducing operations cost, reducing staff while ensuring business...

And now...anytime it falls
Slightly at a rack hotel...
"Nope...not having it...dvc that sucker"

And then you reduce staff yet again...look at how many times that has happened...or do they need to build at all star music before you believe me.

I'm just telling you how it is...twist it, spin it, don't believe it...it changes nothing.

From what I read that you posted, you did not offer an opinion on whether the resorts should be outsourced. You just said you thought management would like to. Do you think it is a good idea?

Here is my argument against outsourcing:

I'm sure it costs a fortune to run the resorts and busses. But any company to whom they outsource will have those expenses as well. The only way to make a bigger profit would be to cut employees, cut services, and cut quality. And that results in a less magical vacation. Which results in shorter and fewer stays and fewer gift shop and ticket purchases. Companies to whom they might outsource have less financial interest that guests spend more time in the parks or purchase Disney merchandise. They would run the resort business to make money on the resort alone. Doesn't that negatively affect Disney profits?

While I truly enjoy Disney parks, I fell in love with the resorts. I first stayed in the CR when I was 13 and the monorail was magical. When I went back as an adult, my first stay was at AKL. It was supposed to be a once in a lifetime trip, but I was hooked- largely due to the beauty of the resort and the convenience of the busses. I then stayed at PoR and to this day I get warm, fuzzy feelings thinking about eating in Riverside Mill and watching the water wheel while my daughter watched Mickey Shorts on the television. I have since stayed at Pop, CBR, POFQ, the Cabins at FW, YC, BWI, AoA, and All Star Sports. Some of my best Disney memories are of the resorts. I became an AP holder partially because I wanted to feel that I was still getting my money's worth when I spent a little time in the parks and a lot of time in the resorts. When I think about a Disney vacation, my first thought is not of the parks. It is of which resort I am going to choose. And so far I have not chosen the Swan, Dolphin, or WBC. Because they aren't Disney.

Outsourcing resorts also cut down on the number of employees Disney can boast of having. Right now they claim to employ around 70,000 in the Orlando area. Outsourcing the resorts results in diminishing power and importance in the Orlando market.

Walt Disney purchased so much land in central Florida specifically because he wanted to control everything around the parks, including the resorts. He realized how important it was that the company have control of the resorts, the businesses, the grounds, and the restaurants within WDW. The hotels and restaurants around Disneyland were not up to Disney standards and they lowered the value and the magical effect of Disneyland.

I have never been in the hotel or the theme park business, but as a frequent WDW visitor, an AP holder, and a guest who spends a small fortune on Disney merchandise, I can tell you that a big part of the my Disney obsession (and that of many others) is the resorts. And they need to be run by Disney.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

From what I read that you posted, you did not offer an opinion on whether the resorts should be outsourced. You just said you thought management would like to. Do you think it is a good idea?

Here is my argument against outsourcing:

I'm sure it costs a fortune to run the resorts and busses. But any company to whom they outsource will have those expenses as well. The only way to make a bigger profit would be to cut employees, cut services, and cut quality. And that results in a less magical vacation. Which results in shorter and fewer stays and fewer gift shop and ticket purchases. Companies to whom they might outsource have less financial interest that guests spend more time in the parks or purchase Disney merchandise. They would run the resort business to make money on the resort alone. Doesn't that negatively affect Disney profits?

While I truly enjoy Disney parks, I fell in love with the resorts. I first stayed in the CR when I was 13 and the monorail was magical. When I went back as an adult, my first stay was at AKL. It was supposed to be a once in a lifetime trip, but I was hooked- largely due to the beauty of the resort and the convenience of the busses. I then stayed at PoR and to this day I get warm, fuzzy feelings thinking about eating in Riverside Mill and watching the water wheel while my daughter watched Mickey Shorts on the television. I have since stayed at Pop, CBR, POFQ, the Cabins at FW, YC, BWI, AoA, and All Star Sports. Some of my best Disney memories are of the resorts. I became an AP holder partially because I wanted to feel that I was still getting my money's worth when I spent a little time in the parks and a lot of time in the resorts. When I think about a Disney vacation, my first thought is not of the parks. It is of which resort I am going to choose. And so far I have not chosen the Swan, Dolphin, or WBC. Because they aren't Disney.

Outsourcing resorts also cut down on the number of employees Disney can boast of having. Right now they claim to employ around 70,000 in the Orlando area. Outsourcing the resorts results in diminishing power and importance in the Orlando market.

Walt Disney purchased so much land in central Florida specifically because he wanted to control everything around the parks, including the resorts. He realized how important it was that the company have control of the resorts, the businesses, the grounds, and the restaurants within WDW. The hotels and restaurants around Disneyland were not up to Disney standards and they lowered the value and the magical effect of Disneyland.

I have never been in the hotel or the theme park business, but as a frequent WDW visitor, an AP holder, and a guest who spends a small fortune on Disney merchandise, I can tell you that a big part of the my Disney obsession (and that of many others) is the resorts. And they need to be run by Disney.

My stance is no...they shouldn't outsource...but I think it will happen in some context.

But if they continue to jack prices while trying to dump employees and invest nothing in employee comfort or training...I reserve the right to completely reverse.

And hotel operators will make efforts to have fewer employees but will pay them more to get higher quality...disney cannot do that.

And Wall Street likes licensing...it's literary money for nothing. Even if revenue goes down...the e traders
Of the world wait by the door to get their dividend check. (Figuratively)

 

[andyw715]

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Hermione_Granger

The book character is much older than Emma Watson, who you are now clearly referring to. Not knowing your age, I won't speculate, but Emma Watson is not Hermione Granger. I do like her a lot though-especially her activism.

Huh?
Philosophers Stone (Hogwarts) takes place in 1980-1991

Hermione was born in 1979 and was almost 12 when she first attended Hogwarts.
Emma Stone was born in 1990. So when she was casted as Hermione she was 10/11.

Hermione is at most 2 years older than Emma.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Huh?
Philosophers Stone (Hogwarts) takes place in 1980-1991

Hermione was born in 1979 and was almost 12 when she first attended Hogwarts.
Emma Stone was born in 1990. So when she was casted as Hermione she was 10/11.

Hermione is at most 2 years older than Emma.

Emma Watson...but point taken.

 

[andyw715]

Emma Watson...but point taken.

redhead, slipped my mind.

 

[Moliphino]

Huh?
Philosophers Stone (Hogwarts) takes place in 1980-1991

Hermione was born in 1979 and was almost 12 when she first attended Hogwarts.
Emma Stone was born in 1990. So when she was casted as Hermione she was 10/11.

Hermione is at most 2 years older than Emma.

I think they meant that Hermione would be 38 now (born 1979 as you said), and Emma Watson is 27.

 

[adelaster]

I think they meant that Hermione would be 38 now (born 1979 as you said), and Emma Watson is 27.

Yup. I have a thing and I mix up things without noticing. Sorry!

ETA: I am home sick and feverish. Just realized that I apologized for someone else's mistake. Oops. Guess I got the name right!

 

[ammag]

Back to the hotel concept, my husband and I are 100% on board with this. As are most of our friends who are into Star Wars. Which is almost everyone! I'm 40, he is 42. The price point is high BUT if it includes things like food at resort, oark tickets, and amazing experiences I think many people will do it. Many people save for things like this for years as we would have to do. In fact we will be saving next year for Star Wars land, hotel or not because I want to experience as much as possible, assuming there will be various extras and merchandise. Our kids, especially our son, are deeply in love with it as well. Our upcoming trip only has four oark days and we will most likely only do Star Wars at HS, maybe TSMM is we have time. But the focus is star tours, characters, shopping, eating silly probably gross SW themed food, etc.

As for the hotel...the idea of an immersive experience with cosplay, characters (us too....alternate names, story lines) hotel specific experiences being able to continue into the park for a few days? Priceless to us.

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

Yes, target people in their 40s and we will make our kids go also. I would love to go to a Star Wars hotel and I know that my brothers and mom would also.

 

[adelaster]

WOOHOO Y'ALL - it's confirmed!

 

[jfk4]

I've been thinking about the business model, and I wonder whether the hotel shouldn't be viewed more as a immobile cruise ship than a resort. Disney is obviously doing well with the cruise lines, and they've acquired considerable experience on how to run these ships profitably.

If this is in fact the model they're pursuing I'd expect to see them book it for fixed periods (i.e., trips start on specific dates and run for specific durations). Like a cruise ship, passengers would "board" together on the first day of the excursion. This would allow Disney to develop story campaigns much like live-action roleplaying games that evolve over the course of the trip. They could also eventually offer different stories in order to ensure repeat visits. Presumably they'd also offer additional cost-added experiences; I'd imagine that a spa would be included, for example.

 

[TygerHawks]

That is what I am thinking, with the cruise stop being Galaxy's Edge midway through the cruise. Disembarking in costume to be a part of the land's story and fully experience it, before loading back up until checkout.

 

[Scifidiner]

So then the choice doesn't have to be made between "classic", "bleakwuels", "girl power trilogy" and a Brand new "fictitious space hole"...

"Girl power trilogy" that made me laugh out loud. The PC trilogy.


I'm 55 my wife is 53, we're talking about doing the SW experience if it's not obscenely expensive. I was 15 when the first SW came out, I absolutely loved it. I've enjoyed all the subsequent movies, probably prefer the original trilogy, but I don't mind the others. I'm more than a casual fan but not obsessed with SW.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

I am not yet 40, 2 more years to go. I also have many friends that will pay for this experience. Those of that were born 77/78/79, even though we were to young to watch as the movies became big we claim them by birth year Also all our kids have been indoctrinated and would love to go. So know how to pay for it is the only ? Will there be age restrictions you all think? Our youngest is 3.

 

[adelaster]

I am not yet 40, 2 more years to go. I also have many friends that will pay for this experience. Those of that were born 77/78/79, even though we were to young to watch as the movies became big we claim them by birth year Also all our kids have been indoctrinated and would love to go. So know how to pay for it is the only ? Will there be age restrictions you all think? Our youngest is 3.

Good questions, but no definite answers yet. Stay tuned!

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

I've been thinking about the business model, and I wonder whether the hotel shouldn't be viewed more as a immobile cruise ship than a resort. Disney is obviously doing well with the cruise lines, and they've acquired considerable experience on how to run these ships profitably.

If this is in fact the model they're pursuing I'd expect to see them book it for fixed periods (i.e., trips start on specific dates and run for specific durations). Like a cruise ship, passengers would "board" together on the first day of the excursion. This would allow Disney to develop story campaigns much like live-action roleplaying games that evolve over the course of the trip. They could also eventually offer different stories in order to ensure repeat visits. Presumably they'd also offer additional cost-added experiences; I'd imagine that a spa would be included, for example.

A spa. Oh yes. I'll take a massage from Han Solo, please.
And perhaps some meditation with Yoda.