Common Core.... someone please explain

[tvguy]

I don't think 36 half days is that unusual. And they aren't true "halves" most places. It's usually a 4 hour day instead of 6. Cut for teacher meetings and PD.

I'd say our bigger issue is that we think it's a good idea to take 2 months off every summer. Don't get me wrong-i love my summer vacation, but it really is the dumbest schedule, especially considering we don't need our kids harvesting the fields any more...

Yup. Every Thursday is a half day. It is a 4 hour day, which California lets schools call a full school day.
It is teacher prep time in addition to the one hour they get the 4 other days.

And a correction, it is 34 days. There are no minimum days during Fall and Spring semester finals week.

 

[Lolsmum]

I grew up with the traditional California school year. I had a 12 week summer break, a few minimum days here and there, a week off at Easter and 2 weeks off at Christmas and yes, we spent pretty much all of September relearning last year's work. I love the system here: 6 weeks off in the summer, a week off in the middle of each of the three terms of school, 2 weeks off for Easter and Christmas and not a single minimum day to be seen all year long. My only real complaint is that pretty much the whole time f England has the same weeks off so travel costs go up for those weeks. I love that school days are school days, with no late start or early releases to work around for parents and that my kids don't forget everything over a long summer.

 

[aprilgail2]

There was one school in our area that did year-round schooling for about 10 years. It was really popular in the beginning. They just gave it up a few years ago. It just wasn't working -- the logistics of year-round schooling just doesn't fit into American lives over the long haul.

And especially in a place like Michigan. Who wants to sit in a school room on a beautiful day in August but have two weeks off in February?

It would cost them way to much money to have school here in the summer- ours schools are not air conditioned and there is no way kids could be in those classrooms on a hot summer day in mid July! I would love them to get rid of winter Feb break and add a week onto summer vacation!

 

[nugov2]

There are a few who have tried it here but never well. The standard attempt usually involves changing over the elem level but not the middle and high schools so families who have kids at more than one school don't get breaks at the same time. So what happens is it tends to be initially popular with families who see the educational benefits but then becomes less so as the kids age and more families have to deal with the logistics of having their middle or high schoolers on a traditional schedule while the elementary schooler is on a year-round track. And part of the reason for the difficulty is that so few schools do this - if it were the norm, things like child care, enrichment camps and other break activities, sports schedules, etc. would fall into place, but as long as it is an unusual circumstance there will be challenges that come from being out of step with the norm.

As far as the weather issue I think that's another of those distractions that gets in the way of educational best practices. People would adapt and there are plenty of places that are fabulous in the winter, including some of the winter-sports destinations here in Michigan. Heck about 20% of our kids miss school at some point in the year to take a winter trip, mostly either to go to FL when it isn't terribly hot or to ski somewhere. And another huge chunk miss around this time of year for deer season trips that could be arranged during the fall break that is typically offered on a year-round schedule. Besides, on a typical year-round/extended-year schedule there is still a long break in the summer. The proposed schedule here cut summer break in half (5 weeks instead of 10 - all of July & first week of Aug), added a two week fall break, made Easter break a full two weeks, and extended existing Thanksgiving, Presidents' Day, and Memorial Day breaks to a full week each.

Very true. We take a winter vacation every year to enjoy winter activities. Most people who are used to living in an area with brutal winters can enjoy outdoor activities most of the winter. It is when temperatures dip into negatives that it is too brutal to be outside. Plus the summers can be just as uncomfortable when it is 100 with humidity. Either scenario nobody wants to be outside. I would love for year round school. It would be great to enjoy vacations in the fall and winter that are extended without having to pull the kids out of school.

 

[nugov2]

It would cost them way to much money to have school here in the summer- ours schools are not air conditioned and there is no way kids could be in those classrooms on a hot summer day in mid July! I would love them to get rid of winter Feb break and add a week onto summer vacation!

We have air conditioning in our schools, but for the schools in this state that don't still attend school in August when here temps are just as abad as July most of the time. I guess I don't see the difference and they could make the break that falls in the summer from the beginning of July through early August to help with that.

 

[Colleen27]

[/B]

Very true. We take a winter vacation every year to enjoy winter activities. Most people who are used to living in an area with brutal winters can enjoy outdoor activities most of the winter. It is when temperatures dip into negatives that it is too brutal to be outside. Plus the summers can be just as uncomfortable when it is 100 with humidity. Either scenario nobody wants to be outside. I would love for year round school. It would be great to enjoy vacations in the fall and winter that are extended without having to pull the kids out of school.

It would also better suit families who have a breadwinner in a seasonal industry. My husband is in construction and has to make the most of the good weather months, then works part time if that through much of the winter. Right now that's really cramping our travel style - with DS in high school we can't take him out of school for trips any more so we've just got Christmas break and the four-day Presidents' Day weekend for planning family travels at the moment. And in our district that is very common - construction, agriculture, and marine services three of our four largest industries so a lot of families could really benefit from a school schedule that offers more time off in those industries' slow seasons (namely late fall through early spring).

 

[TAX GUY]

I'm not anymore clear on Common Core after the weekend. Trying to find out more about it and its implementation has pretty much only resulted in "its bad" or its "dumbing them down". I've glanced at most of the comments here since I last logged on. I see some good points for those "against" it and not much solid documentation for those in favor of it. Perhaps its just too soon to tell its effectiveness?

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm not anymore clear on Common Core after the weekend. Trying to find out more about it and its implementation has pretty much only resulted in "its bad" or its "dumbing them down". I've glanced at most of the comments here since I last logged on. I see some good points for those "against" it and not much solid documentation for those in favor of it. Perhaps its just too soon to tell its effectiveness?

IMO, the bolded is the key. I mentioned earlier, my state was the first to implement CC and the results from the third year of testing just came out Friday. I think there's 1-2 states that are a year behind us and the majority are 2-3 years behind.

I don't know what kind of documentation you're looking for, but (again IMO), test results, graduation rates, college acceptances are what can be looked at and there's not enough data yet.

I also HIGHLY believe that even if 99% of students passed the tests, there will be people complaining that 1% failed.

If I were you, I'd find out when your school system implemented CC and how they're implementing it.

 

[TAX GUY]

IMO, the bolded is the key. I mentioned earlier, my state was the first to implement CC and the results from the third year of testing just came out Friday. I think there's 1-2 states that are a year behind us and the majority are 2-3 years behind.

I don't know what kind of documentation you're looking for, but (again IMO), test results, graduation rates, college acceptances are what can be looked at and there's not enough data yet.

I also HIGHLY believe that even if 99% of students passed the tests, there will be people complaining that 1% failed.

If I were you, I'd find out when your school system implemented CC and how they're implementing it.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for either. Other than its bad because I don't like it or its because I like it. I guess for me its that I'm trying to look too far down the road. As I mentioned previously, our son is in the 6th grade in a private school and we are debating on public high school (so we can save the tuition money and apply that towards college for him) or continue with private high school and not be able to help as much with college. All the recent talk (locally) of common core has got me trying to find out more about to help with making that decision. I have just over 2 years (actually less since he would need to "apply" to schools before the year starts).... but you get my point.

 

[alicat8]

I'm not anymore clear on Common Core after the weekend. Trying to find out more about it and its implementation has pretty much only resulted in "its bad" or its "dumbing them down". I've glanced at most of the comments here since I last logged on. I see some good points for those "against" it and not much solid documentation for those in favor of it. Perhaps its just too soon to tell its effectiveness?

People tend not to form groups and post incessantly on the internet for things they're in favor of...so just keep that in mind when you do your searching.

 

[tvguy]

IMO, the bolded is the key. I mentioned earlier, my state was the first to implement CC and the results from the third year of testing just came out Friday. I think there's 1-2 states that are a year behind us and the majority are 2-3 years behind.

I don't know what kind of documentation you're looking for, but (again IMO), test results, graduation rates, college acceptances are what can be looked at and there's not enough data yet.

I also HIGHLY believe that even if 99% of students passed the tests, there will be people complaining that 1% failed.

If I were you, I'd find out when your school system implemented CC and how they're implementing it.

I agree 100%, and would only add that the system that your school district had before may be a bigger factor than Common Core is. In California, it appears to be very close to what we already had.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm not sure what I'm looking for either. Other than its bad because I don't like it or its because I like it. I guess for me its that I'm trying to look too far down the road. As I mentioned previously, our son is in the 6th grade in a private school and we are debating on public high school (so we can save the tuition money and apply that towards college for him) or continue with private high school and not be able to help as much with college. All the recent talk (locally) of common core has got me trying to find out more about to help with making that decision. I have just over 2 years (actually less since he would need to "apply" to schools before the year starts).... but you get my point.

To that end it is really worth taking a very close look at the specific schools in question. General opinions about overall effectiveness only go so far in helping with specific decisions.

Like I said up thread we're in the same place with our 8th grader and while I hear a lot of negative and mixed opinions about Common Core as our district is doing it, those complains seem to focus on the elem level. The high school curriculum is excellent and in some ways has more to offer than the ($$) private high school we're also considering. Common Core is far less of a factor in more advanced courses than in basic core subjects and, for us, is turning out to be much less of a concern than other differences between the two schools like AP offerings, 'virtual' classes, dual enrollment, class size, sports/extracurriculars, etc.

 

[TAX GUY]

People tend not to form groups and post incessantly on the internet for things they're in favor of...so just keep that in mind when you do your searching.

Which is why I think I'd like to see solid results (testing?) but understand it will take time to get an accurate idea.

To that end it is really worth taking a very close look at the specific schools in question. General opinions about overall effectiveness only go so far in helping with specific decisions.

Like I said up thread we're in the same place with our 8th grader and while I hear a lot of negative and mixed opinions about Common Core as our district is doing it, those complains seem to focus on the elem level. The high school curriculum is excellent and in some ways has more to offer than the ($$) private high school we're also considering. Common Core is far less of a factor in more advanced courses than in basic core subjects and, for us, is turning out to be much less of a concern than other differences between the two schools like AP offerings, 'virtual' classes, dual enrollment, class size, sports/extracurriculars, etc.

My concern is it will work its way up. If the current elementary level is starting to use, what's to say it won't follow this age/grade level all the way up? If so and if my son doesn't have exposure to common core now in private school but this method moves with the grades, I fear he'll be lost as his peers will have had this for a few years.

These are some of my general thoughts and I understand I'm trying to see into the future. This is why I'm trying to get a better idea on the methods so I can see first hand how difficult (or easy) it actually is.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

My concern is it will work its way up. If the current elementary level is starting to use, what's to say it won't follow this age/grade level all the way up?

Honestly, it probably won't. But the same is true of state standards. States used to come up with their own set of standards. By the time my senior graduated last year, our state went from no standards to their own state standards, which were modified a few times, to Common Core.

But that's not new. Heck, when I was in elementary school in the early to mid 80's, science class focused a lot on conversion and the metric system because the US was going to move to the metric system Any Day Now(tm).

 

[gwynne]

Honestly, it probably won't. But the same is true of state standards. States used to come up with their own set of standards. By the time my senior graduated last year, our state went from no standards to their own state standards, which were modified a few times, to Common Core.

But that's not new. Heck, when I was in elementary school in the early to mid 80's, science class focused a lot on conversion and the metric system because the US was going to move to the metric system Any Day Now(tm).

Yup.

 

[Colleen27]

My concern is it will work its way up. If the current elementary level is starting to use, what's to say it won't follow this age/grade level all the way up? If so and if my son doesn't have exposure to common core now in private school but this method moves with the grades, I fear he'll be lost as his peers will have had this for a few years.

These are some of my general thoughts and I understand I'm trying to see into the future. This is why I'm trying to get a better idea on the methods so I can see first hand how difficult (or easy) it actually is.

It isn't that it isn't being used in high school. It is, at least in my area. It is that it is a much more subtle change in high school level courses than it is at the basic skills elem level. For example, the difference between common core freshman English and it's predecessor is fewer fiction readings and more literary/historically significant non-fiction. In high school I don't think that's a bad thing (in kindergarten, where they're not supposed to be reading more than 50% fiction now, it isn't such a benign change IMO). Likewise, proofs have always been part of higher math so there's no major change in those courses either; teachers aren't looking at how the kids perform computations, just how they apply formulas and work the steps of solving a problem. Showing your work and having only one right way in basic arithmetic is a big change. Showing your work and following specific steps in algebra or trig is business as usual.

Also, and I know this varies from state to state, there may be other advantages to public school that offset some of the common core concerns. For example, by state law public schools in Michigan have to allow students to take up to two courses a year from the statewide "virtual school" system and have to cover the costs of dual enrollment if a student wishes to take community college courses in subject matter not offered by the high school. For small schools like ours (~600 students at the public HS, ~250 at the private) those programs are huge assets because there simply aren't enough students to support offering a wide range of courses on site. The private school we're considering doesn't offer either option, and I'm not sure the advantages it does offer are worth the price tag when she'd have so much more opportunity to customize her course of study at the public school.

 

[TLSnell1981]

 

[Kellykins1218]

Common Core Math = If it makes sense, is easier, and quicker with a lot less steps...you aren't allowed to do it that way

 

[TLSnell1981]

Common Core Math = If it makes sense, is easier, and quicker with a lot less steps...you aren't allowed to do it that way

Yep. We were just discussing that very thing. It's why I pulled this thread up..

 

[alicat8]

Common Core Math = If it makes sense, is easier, and quicker with a lot less steps...you aren't allowed to do it that way

If you're memorizing how to do it in fewer steps without understanding why, you're wasting your time. This isn't a new concept in education. It's how I learned to teach in college 15 years ago. It's forcing kids to use critical thinking skills. Memorizing algorithms is useless in a world of calculators.